Watchman / Annihilation Rotation

[Ardarell_Solo]

I find myself AltF4ing out of parses. Never did that before...

[Ailaria]

I find myself AltF4ing out of parses. Never did that before...

 

I'm starting to know that feeling all too well. I find myself actually hoping I have to backup heal in raids just so I can avoid playing my sentinel.

 

Anyway, thank you so much for the work you've put in (even if, as you've said, the result is horrible). Being a sentinel would be such a pain in the bum without El'ethon and oofalong.

[Barnard]

This actually does work, boring as crap but it works. I ran nearly a 70 minute straight parse and had it up to 4870 without using adrenals or inspiration.

[Ardarell_Solo]

boring as crap but it works.

 

That describes it all too well... :-(

[madraruaso]

That describes it all too well... :-(

 

Hey lets see it that way. It is better than 3.0.

 

What bothers me most i feel like always be low on Focus.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Hey lets see it that way. It is better than 3.0.

 

Actually I don't think so. I do like that we are burstier and Cauterize on 6s is a Watchman trademark. But ripping Master Strike apart pretty much kills the spec for me. And a sustained rotation of 4 GCDs with two of them set in stone is worse than the long rotation 3.0. had - that was way more interesting imo.

[madraruaso]

Actually I don't think so. I do like that we are burstier and Cauterize on 6s is a Watchman trademark. But ripping Master Strike apart pretty much kills the spec for me. And a sustained rotation of 4 GCDs with two of them set in stone is worse than the long rotation 3.0. had - that was way more interesting imo.

 

Your point is valid but i see more the advantage, that it is way more mobile and a target switch dont feel like beeing forced to drink Oettinger.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Since I didn't want to accept that this 4 block rotation with clipped Master Strikes is really the way to go, I kept trying my open rotation with full Master Strikes and finally got 5179 with it. The interesting thing is that overall Critical damage (593877) was lower than on my previous best parse of 5163 with the simple rotation, that had 604276 Critical damage.

 

So I actually started comparing ability useage, especially Master Strike against Cauterize, since all other abilities were pretty much the same in both parses. I found out that on the parse with my open rotation I had 3 Cauterizes less than on the parse with the 4 GCD rotation. But I had 9 full Master Strikes in the open rotation plus 1 clipped, (which I had done cause I had seen I was not going to have enough focus for the next Merciless). That's 19 GCDs of Master Strike useage. In the simple parse I had 1 full Master Strike in the opener and then 10 clipped ones, so that's 12 GCDs of Master Strike. From the numbers I have on DPS/activation/GCD 7 more GCDs of Master Stike should indeed beat 3 complete Cauterizes.

 

Oofalong, can I maybe get you to calculate both parses with your precise method to determine which rotation's potential is actually higher? I'd have to add though that I clipped Melt twice in the simple parse by mistake. All other abilities are quite identical, so I think it comes down to the question of 7 GCDs of Master Strike vs. 3 Cauterize uses.

 

I have to say though, that the complex rotation is about twice as difficult to pull off and full Master Strikes are the key to it, so it's hardly the better choice for encounters with a lot of movement - even if it should turn out that dps potential is slightly higher...

Edited June 10, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[DreamerDeceiver]

Hello all, if you could help me with annihilation rotation ...

I got your rotation and translated to imperial ones and this is what i got:

 

OPENER

 

Force Charge + Deadly Saber

Battering Assault

 

Annihilate

Force Rend + Adrenal + Blood-thirst + Frenzy + Berserk

Rupture

Ravage

Dual Saber Throw (if 5+ Rage) / Assault (if less)

Rupture + Deadly Saber

Force Charge

 

Annihilate

Battering Assault

Rupture

Force Rend

filler (Dual Saber Throw if not used before)

filler

 

Rotation

 

Annihilate + Deadly Saber

Rupture

Ravage

 

Annihilate

Rupture

Battering Assault

Force Rend

 

Annihilate + Deadly Saber

Rupture

Force Charge

filler (usually Dual Saber Throw, depending on focus)

 

Annihilate

Rupture

Ravage

 

Annihilate + Deadly Saber

Force Rend

Rupture (this is where the priority system starts and why Rupture is delayed)

 

Tell me if the rotation is correct cause many times i run out of rage and cannot finish the rotation

[Ardarell_Solo]

You translated abilities correctly as far as a German Republican player can tell...

 

The problem with this build is that what I wrote is the best case scenario. A lot of times you will just not have enough resources and have to adapt the "rotation" according to the priorities I gave.

 

Added to this, the "rotation" I listed is just a random block cut out of a possible scenario, it is by no means repeatable the same way our rotation was repeatable prior to 3.2.1.

 

The only thing that's really scripted is the two blocks after the first two Annihilates. Even the extended opener will have to be changed in 50% of attempts due to lack of resources.

 

Later you will probably have to skip Ravages for lack of resources as well. In doubt, better keep up dots, cause if you're delaying Rupture too long for Ravage, you're losing DPS.

 

Generally speaking, every parse is a trip into the big adventure called "Will I have enough resources for what I want to do next or will I be scr**ed" ;-)

Edited June 9, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[DreamerDeceiver]

Ok ty for the reply and the info

[oofalong]

Since I didn't want to accept that this 4 block rotation with clipped Master Strikes is really the way to go, I kept trying my open rotation with full Master Strikes and finally got 5179 with it. The interesting thing is that overall Critical damage (593877) was lower than on my previous best parse of 5163 with the simple rotation, that had 604276 Critical damage.

 

I think you linked the wrong parse for your 5,179.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Stupid me, I hadn't even uploaded that one it seems. So here it is: http://parsely.io/parser/view/37048

 

Corrected the link above, too...

[oofalong]

Stupid me, I hadn't even uploaded that one it seems. So here it is: http://parsely.io/parser/view/37048

 

Corrected the link above, too...

 

So I am just starting to dig through your log, and it will take a while. Still, one of the first things I noticed is that your crit rate on the final GCD of Master Strike is 56% for the MH hit and 29% for the OH. This is exceptionally high and unsurprisingly makes the full Master Strike look superior. Another early observation is the full channel allowed for 1 less use of Zen.

 

Generally speaking there will be more volatility with a full channel of Master Strike as given favorable RNG in terms of resource procs as well as damage/crits/misses of Master Strike you will achieve higher results from time to time. So far, I haven't seen anything that convinces me that allowing a full channel provides consistently superior benefit.

[Ardarell_Solo]

So I am just starting to dig through your log, and it will take a while. Still, one of the first things I noticed is that your crit rate on the final GCD of Master Strike is 56% for the MH hit and 29% for the OH. This is exceptionally high and unsurprisingly makes the full Master Strike look superior. Another early observation is the full channel allowed for 1 less use of Zen.

 

Generally speaking there will be more volatility with a full channel of Master Strike as given favorable RNG in terms of resource procs as well as damage/crits/misses of Master Strike you will achieve higher results from time to time. So far, I haven't seen anything that convinces me that allowing a full channel provides consistently superior benefit.

 

Thanks in advance for your efforts, man! Crit rate on final GCD of Master Strike tends to be this high in the best parses for sure. But the reason why I posted again is that I'm seeing higher numbers on average with full Master Strikes, about 50-80 more. But: With full Master Strikes I will get one out of 5 parses that's quite low, due to bad resources, speaking 4850ish instead of the 5050 I typically get with full Master Strikes (vs. about 4980 with the simplified rotation). So yeah, there's more volatility.

 

The reason why I suspect full Master Strikes maybe a good choice is what I wrote above: I think the 8 GCDs more of Master Strike (even if the last hit does not crit) will beat the three Cauterizes I'm losing (which is a lot less than I had thought before I analyzed that). One of the reasons is that the simple rotation tends to resource cap me sometimes and there's no room for strong fillers to make use of resources available then. As I said, ability useage concerning DST, Zealous Strike, Force Leap, Assault tends to be the same for me with both methods. And in that case 8 more GCDs of Master Strike seem to beat 3 Cauterizes. (This last comparison is always like that when I use the two methods described).

 

The downside is: Full Master Strike rotation NEEDS additional resources and you have to manage resources very well to pull off that rotation in the first place. And even if you play it "correctly", you can still get scre**ed by bad passive resource generation RNG - and in that case it will be one of those 4850 parses I mentioned...

 

Atm I'm going the route of using full Master Strike rotation if movement requirements are not too high, but switching to simple rotation when I need to move constantly.

 

Also I think that simple rotation only gets its full potential if you stay on the same target for at least 30 seconds. Everything shorter is better with full Master Strikes, as this is simply burstier.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[Kelrizzo]

Ardarell

 

I don't suppose you have video of your rotation? That is something I would love to see if you have something.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Ardarell

 

I don't suppose you have video of your rotation? That is something I would love to see if you have something.

 

Not until today :-)

 

->

 

That's a 5080 DPS parse with about 535K Critical Damage (which is a little below what I usually get). Rotation is pretty much what I'm aiming for, except for the last 10secs.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[AquilionDC]

Thank you for that interesting explanation !

 

i would like to back again on one point....is it preferable to have exactly 1,5 second by CDG ? Should we pass over the surge's cap and have 0 in alacrity ?

[Ardarell_Solo]

Thank you for that interesting explanation !

 

i would like to back again on one point....is it preferable to have exactly 1,5 second by CDG ? Should we pass over the surge's cap and have 0 in alacrity ?

 

I'm pretty sure you should use one slot for alacrity, both in 192 and 198 gear - it's what's giving me best results both in parsing and raiding.

[Ardarell_Solo]

First time this rotation went exactly the way I meant it to go for a whole parse: 5244

 

Though I play it pretty much by instincts now, here's a few things I'd advise you to do, if you want to experiment with that rotation:

 

 

• Never put Master Strike in a block that has Force Melt on GCD 4
   
   
  
• Sometimes it's better to first use Force Leap and then Zealous Strike, if both are available - especially after Master Strike: you will need a third big focus spender after Zealous Strike again soon and Leap will be ready again by then
   
   
  
• Wait out your DST proc, if you can get in Master Strike in a Merciless block
   
   
  
• Obviously: Try not to delay Cauterize too long for Master Strike, otherwise you will lose the benefit of this rotation
   
   
  
• If in doubt better cap resources than use Slash. Sometimes it's better too skip a DST proc, too, if that lets you keep up the rotation with all Dots and full Master Strikes. You will be able to use DST very soon after it procs again.
   
  

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[rmetcalf]

So is there a way to translate the parse to english?

 

I'm new to sents so I'm interested in learning the rotation

[Ardarell_Solo]

I can give you the English translation of abilities used:

 

Gnadenloser Hieb = Merciless Slash = Annihilate

Lichtschwertüberladung = Overload Saber = Deadly Saber

Machtschmelze = Force Melt = Force Rend

Kauterisieren = Cauterize = Rupture

Doppelter Lichtschwertwurf = Double Saber Throw = Twin Saber Throw

Meisterschlag = Master Strike = Ravage

Hieb = Slash = Vicious Slash

Erledigen = Dispatch = Vicious Throw

Eiferschlag = Zealous Strike = Battering Assault

Vorstoß = Strike = Assault

Machtstasis = Force Stasis = Force Choke

 

Tapferer Ruf = Valorous Call = Frenzy

Zurechtweisen = Rebuke = Cloak of Pain

Zen = Zen = Berserk

Inspiration = Inspiration = Bloodlust

... Angriffsaufputscher = Adrenal

[oofalong]

First time this rotation went exactly the way I meant it to go for a whole parse: 5250

 

 

Wow, nice parse. For those following along at home, a top parse like this relies on favorable crit rates, specifically crit'ing on your biggest hitting abilities. Adarell's overall observed mCrit % was ~31%, which is higher than his character sheet sheet would suggest. Moreover, his observed crit % on the MH hit of his biggest 4 melee attacks are:

• Dispatch 50%
  
• Merciless Slash 46.67%
  
• Twin Saber Throw 62.5%
  
• Master Strike Hit 3 50%
  

[Ardarell_Solo]

Wow, nice parse. For those following along at home, a top parse like this relies on favorable crit rates, specifically crit'ing on your biggest hitting abilities. Adarell's overall observed mCrit % was ~31%, which is higher than his character sheet sheet would suggest. Moreover, his observed crit % on the MH hit of his biggest 4 melee attacks are:

• Dispatch 50%
  
• Merciless Slash 46.67%
  
• Twin Saber Throw 62.5%
  
• Master Strike Hit 3 50%
  

 

Damn, and I thought I had played well! ;-)

 

Seriously though, getting top parses has always required favourable RNG. But with this version of Watchman / Annihilation and the rotation I use I find that getting resource from our passive talents at the right moments is even more important than critting on big hitters. Cause otherwise it's even tougher to keep up that rotation in the first place - and if you can't you won't even HAVE that third hit of Master Strike. This is aggravated by the fact that we can't really do much to react to resource generation RNG with so many free abilities and so little room in the rotation.

 

One trick I use frequently is abusing Force Stasis to avoid focus capping with Strike, as Stasis generates its 4 points over 4secs so you can use it when you're at 10-11 focus right before a costly window with e.g. Master Strike and Deadly Saber in it - if you use Strike in that case, you waste some of the focus generated as it comes instantly. But that won't save you if focus just doesn't want to come the way it should altogether.

 

Either way I'm kinda surprised that I'm not seeing many Sentinels / Marauders parsing after 3.2.1. I'd really like to learn what all of you guys are doing rotation wise and if I'm maybe betting on the wrong horse all the time...

Edited June 15, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[oofalong]

Damn, and I thought I had played well! ;-)

 

You always do well I just wanted others to know that a 5,200+ parse is not typical.

 

Either way I'm kinda surprised that I'm not seeing many Sentinels / Marauders parsing after 3.2.1. I'd really like to learn what all of you guys are doing rotation wise and if I'm maybe betting on the wrong horse all the time...

 

I think a lot of people lost enthusiasm for the spec...

 

One trick I use frequently is abusing Force Stasis to avoid focus capping...

 

This is really interesting. It's a bit of a DPS loss in isolation, but overall it may allow for an stronger rotation due to better and delayed resource generation.