New Anni is Awesome in PVP

[Lafay]

Lol, keep telling yourself that. Whatever it takes to sleep at night. You have vanish, you have 99% damage reduction, and now you have cc / stun / root immunities.

 

 

 

They cant run if they are stun locked or focused, they drop like a sack of potatoes, marauders can vanish, or use their 99% damage reduction. Making them automatically better. They are in a good place now, any more buffs would put them in FOTM status again. Which seems what people here want.

 

um, first of all, fury has the cc immunity and last i checked the title of this thread is about anni. no mara spec has root immunity , only root breakers.

 

secondly, no one can run if they are stunlocked, if you are stunned you are stunned, gg.

 

ive seen tanks in full tank gear drop like a sack of potatoes if focused correctly.

 

electronet makes vanish unusable and will do regular damage right through undying rage.

 

they are not in a good place now, they are bottom tier dps in pvp and pve, this should not be happening for a 3 ac melee dps class. The penalties for being melee should allow it to be top dps, if not, why would anyone play one. It and operatives are the only true melee dps in this game and should rightfully be top dps because of the penalties they pay for being in the fray of everything. If you cant see this, then maybe you should go join BW dev team as you seem to have the same sate of mind as them.

[Lafay]

You have force camo, 99% damage reduction, and a HTL equal ability. When you lose 99% damage reduction, and invisibility, and gain the worst off heals in the game, you can start complaining again. Yes sents needed attention, but they do not need much more, they are already at an acceptable level now, they need to start slowly working on gunslingers and commandos and after they got the needed buffs, go back to marauder, there is no need to shift ALL attention to a single AC and completely neglect the others.

 

wow you have no idea how a marauder works do you, we nave nothing like HTL, you are confusing that with jugs endure pain utility point.

 

our 99% reduction is on the same timer as electronet, keep that in mind.

 

we have almost 0 off heals, tics of 50-300 every so often is not enough to make up for an autoattack through the course of a fight.

 

I have a a few buddys that play merc/mando (Zachariah/Chasso/Hoppin), and 95% of the time they will out dps me on my mara, and 99% of the time he out dps's everyone in the wz. Mercs are fine, i truly believe this is l2p issue here as even I do better with my merc with much more conservative play, take less damage and provide greater team support.

 

In closeing, please take your merc/mando complaining to the correct forum.

 

this forum/thread is for anni complaing/whining only.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Lafay

[Lafay]

Still Jung Ma. Mostly PvE now, since solo ranked doesn't pop very frequently (although group seems to just fine most nights.) Rivik and co still have toons on Harbinger I think. You should come back and teach Taelord how to Carnage.

 

On paper the Anni self-heals change is a nerf, 'cause 15% of damage dealt is usually less than 1% of max HP in full Dark Reaver. Does it feel like less, or more? Or does it only feel like more with DoT spread?

 

it feels less, here is why:

 

in a single target situation, 1v1 lets say, you are healing yourself for less, mathematically this is very easy to see.

 

in a dot spread situation, you heal yourself more, but because the nature of this situation, you draw far more fire than all the ranged classes on your team, thus any additional healing you get from spreading your dot is far outweighed by all the extra damage you are taking. You might survive 1 gcd longer than pre3.2.1 neft if you are lucky but not long enough for it to really matter.

 

I would like to see (HAHA BW listen to a prelauch devoted subscriber that is an expert on the class! yea right!) one of 2 things happen to help with this part of the spec:

1. Increase healing to 25-30% (our dots would have to tick for 1600 each for it to equal the 1% we used to have), this would leave us still a little behind the 1% we used to have in solo or 1:1 situations. this is compunded by the fact that we have to reapply our dots every 6 and 15 seconds now, that wastes a gcd that used to be used (pre 3.2.1) for annihilate or some other damage ability. (this is the main reason of our dps loss, we waste gcds re-applying dots every 6 seconds now).

2. Give annihilate a life stealing effect like sorc/sin have.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Lafay

[Aetrus]

I would like to see (HAHA BW listen to a prelauch devoted subscriber that is an expert on the class! yea right!) one of 2 things happen to help with this part of the spec:

1. Increase healing to 25-30% (our dots would have to tick for 1600 each for it to equal the 1% we used to have), this would leave us still a little behind the 1% we used to have in solo or 1:1 situations. this is compunded by the fact that we have to reapply our dots every 6 and 15 seconds now, that wastes a gcd that used to be used (pre 3.2.1) for annihilate or some other damage ability. (this is the main reason of our dps loss, we waste gcds re-applying dots every 6 seconds now).

2. Give annihilate a life stealing effect like sorc/sin have.

 

Uh, no. 1% of 42,000 (the HP you should have in full Dark Reaver) is...420. Your self heals healed for about 400-420 pre 3.2.1. Not 1600. And Marauders are fine in PvP. Except the utility system screwed Carnage over. But I digress.

[EilahFinn]

it feels less, here is why:

 

in a single target situation, 1v1 lets say, you are healing yourself for less, mathematically this is very easy to see.

 

in a dot spread situation, you heal yourself more, but because the nature of this situation, you draw far more fire than all the ranged classes on your team, thus any additional healing you get from spreading your dot is far outweighed by all the extra damage you are taking. You might survive 1 gcd longer than pre3.2.1 neft if you are lucky but not long enough for it to really matter.

 

I would like to see (HAHA BW listen to a prelauch devoted subscriber that is an expert on the class! yea right!) one of 2 things happen to help with this part of the spec:

1. Increase healing to 25-30% (our dots would have to tick for 1600 each for it to equal the 1% we used to have), this would leave us still a little behind the 1% we used to have in solo or 1:1 situations. this is compunded by the fact that we have to reapply our dots every 6 and 15 seconds now, that wastes a gcd that used to be used (pre 3.2.1) for annihilate or some other damage ability. (this is the main reason of our dps loss, we waste gcds re-applying dots every 6 seconds now).

2. Give annihilate a life stealing effect like sorc/sin have.

 

Thx for putting things straight with this and the previous posts.

It´s been overdue.

[fpolk]

First things first I'm a pure PvP player. After playing quite a few warzones since the new changes to watchman/anni I can agree that the survivability is a tad bit better.

 

The heals seem better because when Zen is active it doubles the ticks of heals per burn tick. For example Cauterize has 3 ticks of burn, but with Zen combined you will get 2 ticks per 1 Cauterize burn tick. From what I can see you get the 6 ticks of 1% heals from Zen and the 15% heal based on burn damage on top of that. Although my total heals at the end of warzones have been lower than they were before 3.2.1.

 

The DPS has been much better since these new changes for me since Cauterize finishes faster the burns hit faster too. The dot spread is my most favorite thing right now because the sweep has the same CD as Cauterize and does 30% for damage. I do this combo a lot now Cauterize followed by a Force Sweep it's really awesome and I recommend hitting this when you have a good opportunity.

 

As for utilities the way I have mine set up the changes to them don't affect me much fortunately. I grabbed stoic of course and I roll with the 30 second Transcendence CD keeping the team speedy and getting us a little more damage reduction and I get Fleetfooted for more speed and root breaks. I also pick defensive roll so it's like I never lost the 5% internal/elemental reduction from Juyo.

[KevinQCowart]

They cant run if they are stun locked or focused, they drop like a sack of potatoes, marauders can vanish, or use their 99% damage reduction. Making them automatically better. They are in a good place now, any more buffs would put them in FOTM status again. Which seems what people here want.

 

I feel your pain man, really I do, but honestly have you played marauder/sentinel? the 99% damage reduction is only 4 seconds, that mean you postpone your death by 2 GCDs and then wait for the 3min cooldown to do it again.

 

And camo can be great if you use all the utilities to enhance it, but without you are usually dotted up, or rooted/slowed and get no more than 15m away before they finish you off, again postpones your death by 2 GCDs. I mainly use force camo offensively rather than defensively, because getting hard burst on an opener is your only chance of survival.

[Lalainnia]

No merc should lose to a mara in a 1v1 period, actually no ranged should lose to a mara in a 1v1 in the current state of the game if they are, it was cd's down or just a better mara (since saying the merc was bad might be to mean).

[jauvtus]

Guys, stop replying to this troll, he doesn't care about his AC, he just want to pummel us, while having absolutely no idea how this class works. He sees 99% dmg reduction and cries we are OP, but doesn't read the rest of the tooltip, sees we have combat stealth, but doesn't know about the utilities needed for it to be good enough (or the need of healer to make it worth staying out of combat), he confuses us with juggs with Endure Pain immunity, thinks we have immunity to basically everything. Just hope he will go back to mercs/mandos

[Anishor]

Uh, no. 1% of 42,000 (the HP you should have in full Dark Reaver) is...420. Your self heals healed for about 400-420 pre 3.2.1. Not 1600. And Marauders are fine in PvP. Except the utility system screwed Carnage over. But I digress.

 

I like Carnage better now than I did before 3.2.1. I'm no Taelord ( or Tealord ) but still it's more fun and I tend to do better in most situations, yeah it kind of sucks having to pick up phantom instead of something else but oh well, adapt and move on.

[Lafay]

Uh, no. 1% of 42,000 (the HP you should have in full Dark Reaver) is...420. Your self heals healed for about 400-420 pre 3.2.1. Not 1600. And Marauders are fine in PvP. Except the utility system screwed Carnage over. But I digress.

 

the way it is now, in order to get that 400-420 heal that we used to get, the dot has to tick for 2600-2800, this just does not happen (accept for deadly saber). What I am saying is with the current rupture tick of around 1600-1800 you need 25%-30% return to get back to prenerf. This doesnt even take into account the enemys defensive cooldowns which lower your self heals further. In closing, no, marauders are not fine in pvp but on the other hand you have qualified yourself for a position at the bioware development team, congratulations!

[Aetrus]

the way it is now, in order to get that 400-420 heal that we used to get, the dot has to tick for 2600-2800, this just does not happen (accept for deadly saber). What I am saying is with the current rupture tick of around 1600-1800 you need 25%-30% return to get back to prenerf. This doesnt even take into account the enemys defensive cooldowns which lower your self heals further. In closing, no, marauders are not fine in pvp but on the other hand you have qualified yourself for a position at the bioware development team, congratulations!

 

I misinterpreted you. I thought you meant they should heal for 1600 to make it like pre-nerf. I wouldn't mind it being buffed from 15% to 20%.

 

I like Carnage better now than I did before 3.2.1. I'm no Taelord ( or Tealord ) but still it's more fun and I tend to do better in most situations, yeah it kind of sucks having to pick up phantom instead of something else but oh well, adapt and move on.

 

Tealord best (retired) marauder NA.

[fpolk]

Zen burn ticks still give us 1% of max health all others are 15% of max damage.

[Lafay]

Read the tool tip for hungering again

[fpolk]

Read the tool tip for hungering again

 

I read it and I still stand by my last post. Run Parsec and see for yourself that Zen/Berserk has it's on health tick. When you self heal with a Zen/Berserk active you can even see the 15% health tick and the 1% health tick overlapping each other.

[DarthVillain]

um, first of all, fury has the cc immunity and last i checked the title of this thread is about anni. no mara spec has root immunity , only root breakers.

 

secondly, no one can run if they are stunlocked, if you are stunned you are stunned, gg.

 

ive seen tanks in full tank gear drop like a sack of potatoes if focused correctly.

 

electronet makes vanish unusable and will do regular damage right through undying rage.

 

they are not in a good place now, they are bottom tier dps in pvp and pve, this should not be happening for a 3 ac melee dps class. The penalties for being melee should allow it to be top dps, if not, why would anyone play one. It and operatives are the only true melee dps in this game and should rightfully be top dps because of the penalties they pay for being in the fray of everything. If you cant see this, then maybe you should go join BW dev team as you seem to have the same sate of mind as them.

 

Facts. No hybrid class aka juggs/guard, assassins/shadows, merc/trooper, operative/smuggler, sorc/sage should ever out damage a pure DPs class........... Ever. If this is due to overall hybrid survivability, then Nerf survivability. If this is due to self heals, then Nerf self heals... Its really a no brainer. All specs that are DPs specs should have little to no self healing or tanking unless you're going to offset marauder/sent survivability with damage output. Maras should be doing more damage than snipers/gunslingers. Mathematically. One because they lack kiteability, and two they are in the fray. That's facts. Not opinions.

[Aetrus]

Facts. No hybrid class aka juggs/guard, assassins/shadows, merc/trooper, operative/smuggler, sorc/sage should ever out damage a pure DPs class........... Ever. If this is due to overall hybrid survivability, then Nerf survivability. If this is due to self heals, then Nerf self heals... Its really a no brainer. All specs that are DPs specs should have little to no self healing or tanking unless you're going to offset marauder/sent survivability with damage output. Maras should be doing more damage than snipers/gunslingers. Mathematically. One because they lack kiteability, and two they are in the fray. That's facts. Not opinions.

 

But...they do. I mean, this thread is about PvP, but PvP is about the player. Annihilation is one of the highest parsing specs in the game in PvE, only behind Merc Innovative Ordinance (which everyone has known is OP in PvE since the 3.0 PTS). If you can't make Annihilation work in PvP or think it's somehow a weak DPS class it's either because it's too squishy or because the player behind it isn't good enough to make it work. Considering Marauders have two of the most powerful defensive cooldowns in the game, I'll leave you to form your own conclusions.

 

The spec being difficult or requiring a high APM to execute isn't the same as the spec being bad.

[LunarAshes]

But...they do. I mean, this thread is about PvP, but PvP is about the player. Annihilation is one of the highest parsing specs in the game in PvE, only behind Merc Innovative Ordinance (which everyone has known is OP in PvE since the 3.0 PTS). If you can't make Annihilation work in PvP or think it's somehow a weak DPS class it's either because it's too squishy or because the player behind it isn't good enough to make it work. Considering Marauders have two of the most powerful defensive cooldowns in the game, I'll leave you to form your own conclusions.

 

The spec being difficult or requiring a high APM to execute isn't the same as the spec being bad.

 

The spec only parses high in PvE because, as a sustained spec, it flourishes under long fights with little movement. It takes time to build up its damage. You need to get your Juyo and Annihilate stacks at max before you actually start doing decent damage and by that time the PvP skirmish is long over. The only time it can be considered viable is in LONG fights where you have pocket heals, and even then, every other class brings similar numbers to the table with MUCH MUCH MORE utility.

[Lafay]

I read it and I still stand by my last post. Run Parsec and see for yourself that Zen/Berserk has it's on health tick. When you self heal with a Zen/Berserk active you can even see the 15% health tick and the 1% health tick overlapping each other.

 

ok so the TT for hungering: Your Rupture, Deadly saber, and force rend bleeds heal you for 15% of the damage they deal.

You are saying, during berserk, an additional 1% self heal is added?

 

That makes sense, the berserk in juyo form TT says 1% heals to your group. This is not debated. I understand this but realize this is 6 tics of berserk, not full time. Basically i think self heals are still far too low for this spec in pvp in particular. PVE, is another thread.

[Aetrus]

The spec only parses high in PvE because, as a sustained spec, it flourishes under long fights with little movement. It takes time to build up its damage. You need to get your Juyo and Annihilate stacks at max before you actually start doing decent damage and by that time the PvP skirmish is long over. The only time it can be considered viable is in LONG fights where you have pocket heals, and even then, every other class brings similar numbers to the table with MUCH MUCH MORE utility.

 

More utility than Awe, Predation, raid-wide heals and, in a WZ at least, Bloodthirst? Okay.

[fpolk]

ok so the TT for hungering: Your Rupture, Deadly saber, and force rend bleeds heal you for 15% of the damage they deal.

You are saying, during berserk, an additional 1% self heal is added?

 

That makes sense, the berserk in juyo form TT says 1% heals to your group. This is not debated. I understand this but realize this is 6 tics of berserk, not full time. Basically i think self heals are still far too low for this spec in pvp in particular. PVE, is another thread.

 

I agree that self heals are too low in PvP for this spec. The berserk/zen like you say is not full time, but I thought I'd mention my findings to the other Maras/Sents here anyway to see if anyone else has witnessed the same thing with zen/berserk to make sure I'm not crazy.

[DarthVillain]

But...they do. I mean, this thread is about PvP, but PvP is about the player. Annihilation is one of the highest parsing specs in the game in PvE, only behind Merc Innovative Ordinance (which everyone has known is OP in PvE since the 3.0 PTS). If you can't make Annihilation work in PvP or think it's somehow a weak DPS class it's either because it's too squishy or because the player behind it isn't good enough to make it work. Considering Marauders have two of the most powerful defensive cooldowns in the game, I'll leave you to form your own conclusions.

 

The spec being difficult or requiring a high APM to execute isn't the same as the spec being bad.

Marauders don't do nearly enough DPs in PvP to offset how low their survival is.... As for having the best CDs in the game? Maybe you're confusing that with juggs being able to heal to full while being pounded on........ As it stands maras need a flat out DPs buff.

[Zoom_VI]

Marauders don't do nearly enough DPs in PvP to offset how low their survival is.... As for having the best CDs in the game? Maybe you're confusing that with juggs being able to heal to full while being pounded on........ As it stands maras need a flat out DPs buff.

 

The flaw here is their raw survivability isn't low at all, it may not be the most survivable class in the game, but it is still better than most. Marauder's PvP issues stim from the hyper mobility meta leaving them behind and easily kitable. Oh and it has a higher skill requirement which means the majority of players can't use it effectively, and this was true even when marauders where the top class.

[Lafay]

I agree that self heals are too low in PvP for this spec. The berserk/zen like you say is not full time, but I thought I'd mention my findings to the other Maras/Sents here anyway to see if anyone else has witnessed the same thing with zen/berserk to make sure I'm not crazy.

 

<yoda> Crazy, you are not</yoda> I have not looked for myself in a parse, but this is aligned with the tooltip. I thought i remember raid wide heals in zen/zerk being 2% at some point. 6% total heals raid wide seems pretty weak imo.

[Aluvi]

The flaw here is their raw survivability isn't low at all, it may not be the most survivable class in the game, but it is still better than most. Marauder's PvP issues stim from the hyper mobility meta leaving them behind and easily kitable. Oh and it has a higher skill requirement which means the majority of players can't use it effectively, and this was true even when marauders where the top class.

 

But.. but all marauders are stupid smash monkeys!?!? Right?? It's the most faceroll class ever! Everyone knows that.