Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Senatsu]

Play a sith warrior or a Jedi guardian and force leap someone and spam the smash (aoe thunderclap type spell) you will see this lag. your toon will jump like he is going to smash quiet a few times. please fix this, its the same bug that warhammer had when it launched...mythic is showing there influence for me.

 

I have for the past 2 weeks trying to figure out why it felt like my computer was lagging, are you saying you all see those animations repeatedly before the target takes damage? If that's true then I probably wasted a lot of time and money on computer parts, internet upgrades and support lines >.<

[tehmoose]

So functionally speaking, how would this work?

 

All I've played is my BH Merc, so IDK other class's attacks yet. So I should be able to do 2 attacks more or less simultaneously? I should somehow be able to charge off a wrist rocket (which takes both hands), yet also somehow be able to fire w/ my free hand at the same time?

 

If that's what you're all saying, I'm glad it's not that way.

 

I'm not General Grievous. I can't attack with 4 hands simultaneously.

 

 

 

 

Why does firing a rocket off your wrist take both hands? I could see firing a wrist rocket with the left hand and spraying blaster fire with the other.

 

Throw a lightsaber with one hand, and force push with the other...

 

Fire an assault cannon... wait... those things are silly.

 

C'mon, don't be so closed minded.

[Timotheous]

I have noticed this when I mount up then I take off to early because I played wow so long I guess and I get dismounted. But there are alot of things that shouldnt be doable at once like the example of the mage in the video on wow. That mage shouldnt have been able to have both spells go off at once in my opinion. I hope they dont turn this game in to a button mashing contest. But I agree that they could fix some of this.

[Neshmo]

I also completely agree now after reading OP, i wondered if it's latency or my comp, but then i would have seen differences from time to time. I can live with it for now when doing PvE but i don't wanna go in to PvP until i see a better responsiveness to my button mashing

 

/signed

[Feskitt]

All this shows to me is that the people who are saying they dont notice it, dont have a lot of experience playing MMO's. Not saying its bad, we are always new to something. But watch and LISTEN to the video again please.

 

I don't need to. I know what he's saying. It's not a problem for me, and I like it as is. (At least on my BH Merc. IDK how it effects other classes)

 

If there are 'glitches' then they should be fixed.

 

Though a lot of this thread sounds like people confuse the words "better/worse" with the word "different."

 

 

[poryan]

Forgot to comment on this.

 

Video is great, baznasty.

 

Only way to improve it would be to do a side-by-side with Swtor footage.

 

Again though, that does perfectly show what we're on about and what Swtor DOESN'T have. Thanks!

 

Didn't want to filter through every page, but yeah this video hits the nail on the head.

[Zerbruz]

Totally agree, hope bioware will put all effort on fixing this.

[tehmoose]

I believe a lot of this might have to do with the dev's desire to make combat a visual experience. I do not remember who but I know someone made a comment along the lines of "you shouldn't have to look away from your character". I believe one of their design goals was to make the animations and effects representative of the actions the characters were performing. I believe they failed at all of this. You are still stuck looking at your hotbars the entire time.

 

Yeah, in trying to make it so you don't have to look at your hotbars... they made it so you have to look at your hotbars even more.

 

Lengthy CD/s, misleading GCD timers, limited ability pools, etc. I spend more time looking at the interface than I do looking at the environment.

 

It gets worse when you're a healer too. I spend that time that I'd be looking at the environment looking at healthbars that may or may not indicate actual health percentages.

[Feskitt]

Why does firing a rocket off your wrist take both hands? I could see firing a wrist rocket with the left hand and spraying blaster fire with the other.

 

 

Because it does. Because that's how it is. Because you use your right hand to press the button, while aiming with the left.

 

With the move "Unload" and "PowerShot," I do use both hands simultaneously. To fire both pistols.

 

[Kirkkh]

I put the responsiveness video in it's own thread. Got closed with a link back here. Rep called this thread. "UI" responsiveness.

[Tinkersw]

I don't need to. I know what he's saying. It's not a problem for me, and I like it as is. (At least on my BH Merc. IDK how it effects other classes)

 

If there are 'glitches' then they should be fixed.

 

Though a lot of this thread sounds like people confuse the words "better/worse" with the word "different."

 

 

 

The video was a perfect example. Thank you for watching and understanding.

[tehmoose]

I have noticed this when I mount up then I take off to early because I played wow so long I guess and I get dismounted. But there are alot of things that shouldnt be doable at once like the example of the mage in the video on wow. That mage shouldnt have been able to have both spells go off at once in my opinion. I hope they dont turn this game in to a button mashing contest. But I agree that they could fix some of this.

 

I can kinda do that on my trooper if I'm lucky.

 

Cast a channeled or long cast ability, something longer than 1.5sec to clear the gcd, and then use an instant.

 

So, charged bolts 2 sec cast, and immediately throw a sticky grenade. Its possible in this game. Sometimes. Just like its possible in any game that has this system.

[Halacs]

I believe a lot of this might have to do with the dev's desire to make combat a visual experience. I do not remember who but I know someone made a comment along the lines of "you shouldn't have to look away from your character". I believe one of their design goals was to make the animations and effects representative of the actions the characters were performing. I believe they failed at all of this. You are still stuck looking at your hotbars the entire time.

 

Exactly. I want to see the action, watch the group to anticipate a heal, see the mob/boss and what he is doing.

 

I'll get plenty of time to see my toons animations over the years lol. But the cool stuff the devs can do with encounters? Not as often.

[Akilae]

I don't need to. I know what he's saying. It's not a problem for me, and I like it as is. (At least on my BH Merc. IDK how it effects other classes)

 

If there are 'glitches' then they should be fixed.

 

Though a lot of this thread sounds like people confuse the words "better/worse" with the word "different."

 

 

 

It's different in a way that detracts from the game. I'm guessing it has more to do with lack of experience and a different game engine, than purposeful intent on Bioware's part. I highly doubt they pulled the lead software engineers from Blizzard away from California to move to Texas. Give them some time to earn their chops in the MMO genre, and I'm sure they'll address some of the polish that will make the game the crème de la crème.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Akilae

[Furioapb]

I watched the video...and I just tested in-game and was able to replicate exactly what you did in WoW in SWTOR, filmed and all, will just compile video and upload shortly..

 

I am a huge MMO vet, 6 years of WoW with numerous other MMO's thrown in and I genuinely do not see the problem being discussed here, unless you are discussing casting an insta-cast and then another insta-cast..but that is just the case of the GDC being 1.5 instead of the usual 1.

 

Like I said, I filmed myself doing this, albeit not one-hitting mobs, but that is irrelevant.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Furioapb

[Hiramas]

I don't need to. I know what he's saying. It's not a problem for me, and I like it as is. (At least on my BH Merc. IDK how it effects other classes)

 

If there are 'glitches' then they should be fixed.

 

Though a lot of this thread sounds like people confuse the words "better/worse" with the word "different."

 

 

 

Please understand, our problem is not with a different system. There are quite a lot of people here, trying to get away from everything WoW.

The point is, that the current system is misleading as it gives you a handful of different indicators on your chars actions which are just slightly misaligned. But this very slight difference has a large impact for some classes. The BH seems to be least affected by this.

Try a JK with a Fore Leap / Fore Sweep combo.

 

 

Btw: I am very happy how after this weeks of whining eventually there are (mostly) adult conversations and discussions on this forum. Yeay! (I'm serious here!)

[Roezz]

I believe a lot of this might have to do with the dev's desire to make combat a visual experience. I do not remember who but I know someone made a comment along the lines of "you shouldn't have to look away from your character". I believe one of their design goals was to make the animations and effects representative of the actions the characters were performing. I believe they failed at all of this. You are still stuck looking at your hotbars the entire time.

 

I've guessed at this, and it makes sense. They have a ton of abilities which isn't really necessary for a good combat feel. The number of abilities however plays into more of a roll playing experience, which is more centric toward a good story. For example, shoulder slam on the BH when a target is incapacitated. That thing almost never lights up, but it "looks cool".

 

Unfortunately, as much as I like this game, all of these things make it feel like a single person game and not really a long term experience.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Roezz

[carnac_fett]

I watched the video...and I just tested in-game and was able to replicate exactly what you did in WoW in SWTOR, filmed and all, will just compile video and upload shortly..

 

Eager to see this video!

[tehmoose]

Because it does. Because that's how it is. Because you use your right hand to press the button, while aiming with the left.

 

With the move "Unload" and "PowerShot," I do use both hands simultaneously. To fire both pistols.

 

 

I can tell you for sure that if I designed that wrist rocket thing... it'd only need one hand to activate... that's just not good design from a combat standpoint.

 

But eh. That's an easy fix, and is more a function of the poor animation than anything really.

[fallenvirtues]

Yes default is 0.5 but it is important to understand that it is not the Queuing of Abilities that is the issue, it is the execution of an ability.

 

It has nothing to do with this sadly, for example... I cast "Aimed Shot"... about 0.5 seconds after I hit my button it starts to cast (at 40-50 FPS and 20ms Latency). Also, my "next ability" that I am spamming already before the Aimed Shot Cast Time is completed (as to not miss any time between) never goes off and no animation ever happens...

 

I mean, the whole system is just messed up, not smooth... not responsive.

 

I have to be honest...This is related to your hardware and there is no doubt in my mind..Why I say this? Simple

 

I have 2 machines I run this game on...

 

1. My nice powerful rig at home

2. My not so powerful laptop that has a cheesy dedicated GPU I use when slow at work

 

My desktop at home: I hit an ability and it instantly executes it when no problems what so ever

 

My laptop on the other hand: there is always a delay because the laptop in reality shouldnt really be used for this game and gets crappy fps...

 

EVERYTHING you are making this post about happens on my laptop and I understand how frustrating it is...I really do...Especially when it effects your DPS and etc...But if this was a client issue, why does my desktop at home have no delay????

 

EDIT: The only time I do see a delay is if I'm clicking before my CD is up..Otherwise my character pretty much executes what I push as I push it

Edited December 27, 2011 by fallenvirtues

[Smoda]

Yeah, in trying to make it so you don't have to look at your hotbars... they made it so you have to look at your hotbars even more.

 

Lengthy CD/s, misleading GCD timers, limited ability pools, etc. I spend more time looking at the interface than I do looking at the environment.

 

It gets worse when you're a healer too. I spend that time that I'd be looking at the environment looking at healthbars that may or may not indicate actual health percentages.

 

As a trooper it is impossible to go by the visual elements on screen. At level 30 almost every channeled ability I have doesn't do damage until well into it's cast and then continues to do damage after the channel is finished. I cannot come up with a single possible reason why they thought this was a good idea. My main gripe here can be seen perfectly in the mortar volley skill.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Smoda

[baznasty]

Eager to see this video!

 

same here

[Halacs]

I have noticed this when I mount up then I take off to early because I played wow so long I guess and I get dismounted. But there are alot of things that shouldnt be doable at once like the example of the mage in the video on wow. That mage shouldnt have been able to have both spells go off at once in my opinion. I hope they dont turn this game in to a button mashing contest. But I agree that they could fix some of this.

 

Both spell did not go off at once. The cast time one was done then the instant was cast after. An off GCD instant. They just both "hit" the same time.

[prmsntrcrps]

+1, if you doubt there is a problem just go and try to cast 2 force storms in a row on a sorcerer.. It feels 100% impossible to make the transition from one channeled spell to another smoothly in this game atm.

[Gorgewall]

Can someone post a video of this delay from inside SWTOR, instead of just showing us everything from the WoW perspective?

 

I played WoW in its beta, bought it a year after release, played all the way through vanilla, stopped at BC, picked it up against for WotLK for a long while, and came back briefly to do all of Cata, so I'm not a stranger to its responsiveness and tight controls. Yet I don't see any lack of that in SWTOR. When I use an ability in SWTOR, it gets used. The damage is tied to the animation, and I don't find an issue with that--it's not like in WoW where you could cast a Fireball and deal damage several seconds before the fireball actually impacts a target. I don't think that's bad or wrong, it's just different.

 

The only "delay" complaint I've seen and can replicate myself is the cast-move on speeders. I haven't been able to witness any of this other stuff in the slightest.