zeroeffectxoo Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I find that Gore is the key ability in a Carnage spec that needs to be managed perfectly. You lose a lot of DPS if you don't use your Gore windows right in both PvE/PvP. Why not change it to where when you pop Gore it creates a buff on the character that makes his next 3 attacks ignore 100% armor? This would solve the problems of us popping Gore in both PvE/PvP and getting knocked around like an abused baby. It would be a huge buff in both PvP/PvE and increase the DPS on the spec. It can't be too overpowered considering it's so vital to the build? The only change here is it makes Gore 100% consistent on what it's supposed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarthrafn Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 This would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I absolutely love this idea. It is right in line with the way that Beserk is set up for Carnage with charges. Gore is the very heart of the carnage marauder and the defining feature of the AC.This would allow the carnage marauder to do what he already has the ability to do just more reliably. Given the time cut gore sustained with the coming of 3.0 (Gore window cut to 3 seconds down from 4.5 seconds, when it was posited it would in fact be increased to 6 seconds from 4.5), this is by no means unbalancing or OP. The carnage marauder is nothing without the gore window to sustain his viability (as limited as many people already consider them). As a high end, eng-game progression raider, I stand firm in the conviction that the caranage marauder can be viable in the 60s OPs (even HM), albeit with some difficulty due to the melee unfriendly aspects they are heir too that we all know all to well. It isn't easy tho and it takes constant work and raid awareness and at times, admittedly, it is difficult to sustain. But these very same difficulties, and the willingness of a good raid group to take a chance on a marauder for HM 60s OPs has in and of itself brought my game up, but it doesn't always make it easy on them. The DPS is definitely there, as long as you can make those gore windows count. It is as fleeting as it is essential to the viability of the AC. There is nothing more frustrating than to hit that gore button and than half way through ravage to be forced to move to avoid the circle hells and movement debuffs that are so common in the end game OPs. But when ya hit it, when the stars align and you get it right, the DPS had the potential to soar. I do believe with a change like this suggestion coupled with the ability to channel ravage while moving would do a great deal to bring the carnage marauder much closer to where he or she needs to be to find their place and acceptance in progression raiding. Putting Predation on a timer and making us be able to use crippling slash a few extra feet away does nothing to put us on more even ground. Some say Predation is very useful, I can count on one hand how many times I've been asked to utilize it in lue of berserk. In certain specific instances, yes, it may help some in a particular situation, but that's the exception, at least with regard to pve. Some may disagree with me on that, to that I say well, it's a free country =] The mobility issues with marauders are well known, but just because you need to move doesn't mean you necessarily need to move far or fast. (You want to do neither in the circle hell that surrounds Bulo, that can be a liability to the group if anything.) If we could move when we had to, without having to throw our precious gore window and related attacks into the toilet the many times that we MUST move, you'd find the carnage marauder much more welcome into end game raiding. - I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to continue to play the carnage marauder that I have grown to love and known by. I can honestly say I am often surprised that I am as welcome to many groups as it appears that I am by the requests to join a raid. I'd like to think that I can be less of a liability to those kind people who welcome me despite the state of affairs of mdps in end game raiding. They deserve a greater asset than that for their willingness to have me. - The dps is there. Let us do it. What the hell else do we have to offer!. ----- DPS or bust. ~ I am Grim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I'm primary watchman sentinel, but I'm good at combat, too, sometimes I switch because it's fun. Regardless I agree, this could be a life changing proposal. Channeled while moving Master Strike/Ravage+Precision/Gore Stacks would make Combat/Carnage maybe the most viable sent/mara spec for endgame PVE, also competitive in PvP. And it would definitely not be OP (check commando and vanguard passive armor-piercing)Btw, considering right now Precision/Gore is only 3s, it would mean only 2 stacks, maybe Zen/Berserk could have an effect on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarthrafn Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Then they could also get rid of one of our *******r utilities by making it a baseline and create a new utility that gives an additional gore stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Then they could also get rid of one of our *******r utilities by making it a baseline and create a new utility that gives an additional gore stack. It's not that simple, what you propose would mean a utility is in favor/tied to a certain discipline, and that is not intended nor should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetPunk Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I love the sent, but it would be OP. There are parses with 5000 DPS on 1 mil dummy with 192 MH from Carnage mara. That's all I wanted to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarthrafn Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) It's not that simple, what you propose would mean a utility is in favor/tied to a certain discipline, and that is not intended nor should be. You could easily make it something like defensive forms is now, with different effects depending on your current stance. How about that? Maybe an additional stack on juyo, a rage cost reduction on furious strike for shii cho? Edited May 2, 2015 by Svarthrafn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 You could easily make it something like defensive forms is now, with different effects depending on your current stance. How about that? Maybe an additional stack on juyo, a range cost reduction on furious strike for shii cho? We just might make it like that, but IMO 2 stacks should be enough (at least for first PTS test) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I love the sent, but it would be OP. There are parses with 5000 DPS on 1 mil dummy with 192 MH from Carnage mara. That's all I wanted to say. I've seen some over 5k dps parses on 1mil dummy, none from combat sent/carnage mara, obviously my fault. But still it wouldn't be OP since 1) other classes already do more dps 2) it wouldn't change the dummy stats you genious, only would help to keep up those in real combat (you know since it wouldn't change the effective length of Prcision/Gore...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 As someone that appreciates Annihilation Marauder plight but hates the Annihilation spec, I'd love for Gore to get a rework as Carnage/Combat is one of my favorite specs in the game. This change would work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboytkd Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Btw, considering right now Precision/Gore is only 3s, it would mean only 2 stacks, maybe Zen/Berserk could have an effect on that? It should actually still be 3. Time = 0s, Gore + DB; time = 1.5s, VT; time = 3s, Massacre. So attacks 0s, 1.5s, and 3s. Technically, it's a shade less, probably 0, 1.4, and 2.8, thanks to Alacrity. My only concern with this issue: does having an un-counterable burst overtune the spec for PvP? I know, right now, it seems laughable to use the terms "overtune" and "PvP" in the same sentence with regards to Maras, but in the pre-3.0 days, this kind of mechanical change would have been too good. Of course, back then, we had a 4.5s (would have equated 1 more charge) window every 10.5 seconds (as opposed to the current 12). Also, how does this interact with Ravage? Does it eat 1, 2, or 3 charges? What about Ataru procs? Do they eat charges? I know the obvious answer to the last question is "No," but it shows how exceptions need to be worked into this system. Though I know some hate the 3s Gore window, what I hate more is the 12 second CD, and the way it feels out-of-sync with DB. Your DB comes off cooldown...but you gotta wait 3 seconds to use it as you wait for Gore to come off CD. I'd LOVE to see Gore's cooldown come down to 9 seconds (maybe then, it does just give 2 charges), and Slaughter's ICD come down to 18 seconds. That way, we get a rotation that goes: Gore + DB -> Ravage -> filler -> filler -> filler -> Gore + DB -> VT -> filler -> filler -> filler -> REPEAT. This works especially well if Ravage would only consume 1 charge of Gore. An 18 second ICD on Slaughter also has the additional benefit of syncing the ICD with the proc's buff duration. Meaning you can never "miss" your Slaughter, even if it's only a few seconds. Edited May 5, 2015 by waterboytkd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ld-Siris Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Remember when marauders were king? No one could tell us what to do. We could steal aggro from tanks, then laugh at the stupid tank that couldn't hold aggro. We wouldn't even wait for them to pull, for why should we? We would unleash carnage and destruction on enemy players all the while telling the stupid healers that they need to learn to play. We wanted for nothing. We were feared, despised, but respected for our prowess. What are we now? Bastard children of the classes. Foresaken , from our former glory. Yeah, I miss those days. Edited May 5, 2015 by Ld-Siris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts