Nemarus Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Subject was a lie, meant to attract GSF Forum veterans with its nonsensicalness while simultaneously sounding so boring that it's of no interest to new pilots with ranty walls of text. Now, to the matter at hand... PLEASE STOP BUMPING CRAPPY RANTY THREADS. Seriously. This is the second one this week (the first was reported and deleted). It was obvious after a few replies that that Vox_Mortuum was not interested in constructive dialog. At that point, you should have just let the thread die and sink off the main page. Each time you bump it, you increase the chance that some prospective new pilot wanders into our forums (perhaps earnestly seeking help), but then sees that post's venomous content. And I don't just mean the OP. Yes, his initial post was arrogant and aggressive, but replying in kind isn't going to convince him he's wrong. It's going to convince him we're an insular community that judges GSF solely based on how it is played at The High Level by Those In the Know, and To Heck with Anyone Who Expects it To Be Accessible. But in fact, some of us actually concede that GSF's greatest fault is its inaccessibility, poor documentation, and brutal learning curve. And just because some of us sweated through that learning curve doesn't mean everyone should have to. If that's the case, then GSF is doomed to have an ever-shrinking population, no developer support, and eventually queue death. Some of his complaints with regard to accessibility are completely valid--you know they are. We've all agreed to that in the past and proposed ways to make the game more accessible. And yet we've got Verain in there telling him YOU DON'T NEED TO MOUSE OUTSIDE ARC LOL U SO STUPID, even though that's dead wrong. Of course you do. But you people are all too busy focusing on HOW TO WIN INNARNET FITE to remember how to play GSF, especially as an inexperienced newbie still learning the controls. Or to remember that we actually want to attract people to the game. Edited April 30, 2015 by Nemarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) PLEASE STOP BUMPING CRAPPY RANTY THREADS. Seriously. It was obvious after a few replies that that Vox_Mortuum was not interested in constructive dialog. At that point, you should have just let the thread die and sink off the main page. Objectively you are correct on the thread not being very helpful. Emotionally, I can't just sit there and let those things go. It's true they are super trolly, but at least we tell them what's going on. And anyone else reading the thread. But we decrease the chances of that same pilot starting a NEW thread, saying the same thing, because his old one didn't get responses. Some of his complaints with regard to accessibility are completely valid--you know they are. We've all agreed to that in the past and proposed ways to make the game more accessible. And yet we've got Verain in there telling him YOU DON'T NEED TO MOUSE OUTSIDE ARC LOL U SO STUPID, even though that's dead wrong. Of course you do. But you people are all too busy focusing on HOW TO WIN INNARNET FITE to remember how to play GSF, apparently. Or to remember that we actually want to attract people to the game. You certainly don't need to do what he does, nor should you end up with the problems he has. If I get one thing wrong in a giant pile of threads and ack it immediately after you point it out, that's a whole new thread eh? Solid. I think you know that some people can't stand by while those threads rant. Maybe a new pilots reads it and sees that all the vets disagree with him. Maybe that's good. If you were up in the air about GSF and saw a crappy thread like that, there's still good stuff in there for you, you know? Edited April 30, 2015 by Verain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemarus Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Many vets did respond objectively and constructively. Some even got Vox to converse a bit more reasonably in later replies. But not you. You reacted on a purely emotional level, as you so often do, ratholing on irrelevant minutia as you desperately try to "win" the thread. Arguing about monitor resolution, really? I belabor your firing arc gaffe because it shows how irrational you were being. This is why you are so frustrating, Verain. At times, you can reasonably and rationally discuss and explore, like some kind of adult. At other times, you are a petulant child, emotionally lashing out at anything or anyone who you perceive threatens your sacred cows. If you can admit you reacted out of emotion, then you should have the power to correct that behavior. "Objectively" should be how you always post, if you ever want a dev to take your balance opinions seriously. That means no emotional outbursts or absolute claims of changes "deleting" this or that ship. When post from emotion, you sound no better than PvPers whining about every balance change in their class forum echo chambers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The forums are not my job, so I don't feel the need to answer my posting habits to anyone. Hell, you just made a whole thread instead of a PM because you didn't like something I did. If someone comes onto a forum with nothing but hate and rage, sure, I'll point out their crap and we can all have a good laugh at them. No apologies for that, nor intentions to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caederon Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Meanwhile, I was actually trying to figure out if there was some connection between LLC and EMP missile while the thread loaded. If nothing else, you know how to sucker a game theorist into a thread with even the most absurd conjecture. So, instead of having a Philosophy Duel on proper netiquette when some axe-grinder wanders in here, maybe we could turn this thread into a conversation on how to attract new people into playing and keep them here. Maybe by examining the things we have already tried, we can look at the success or failure of each effort and come up with ways to improve. That way, it won't matter if a troll vacates its bridge to come here and lob boulders. We're never going to maintain a pristine, negativity-free zone anyway. It's the internet. Let's look at some of the outreach methods and discuss them... 1. STOCK NIGHT This was meant initially as the ultimate playing field leveler. It definitely got a lot of veterans from many servers to come together to play. Did it do anything for new players that is quantifiable? This was very successful at connecting the little mudpuddles of each server into a larger community pool of veterans. Did it grow the game at all? 2. SUPER SERIOUS NIGHT Clearly this is a veteran event, but it produces some really great matches and many of those have been recorded on video. These are the kind of matches that people ought to see, to show them what GSF can be like. Do any new players beyond the borders of this forum see these or know about them? 3. TWITCH STREAMING Is this mainly just preaching to the choir? Do new pilots ever actually go to these? What are the viewership #s like? I know I like watching GSF matches almost as much as I like playing them. How can we promote these more? GSF is a great game to watch. 4. YOUTUBE TUTORIAL VIDEOS Drakolich made some of these, and they are great. Are new pilots watching? Are we leading horses to water and watching them fail to drink? How can we get more eyes on these? I've talked briefly to Drakolich about the idea of producing some more elaborate videos, maybe ones that have a sort of ESPN style graphics, analysis of a match, and multiple perspectives to cut between (if we can get several people to record the same match). My thought was that something slicker and more entertaining, and possibly full of educational commentary, could be a way to get more people to watch and enjoy the game. The more we can take positive steps to grow the playerbase, the less we have to worry about someone getting gunshy if they see a troll post here in the forum. - Despon Edited May 1, 2015 by caederon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkolich Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 3. TWITCH STREAMING Is this mainly just preaching to the choir? Do new pilots ever actually go to these? What are the viewership #s like? I know I like watching GSF matches almost as much as I like playing them. How can we promote these more? GSF is a great game to watch. 4. YOUTUBE TUTORIAL VIDEOS Drakolich made some of these, and they are great. Are new pilots watching? Are we leading horses to water and watching them fail to drink? How can we get more eyes on these? - Despon As for as Twitch goes I Average about 10 viewers every time I stream. Most of my viewers seem brand new to the game, I encourage questions and get many of them. Interestingly many of the new players that I do answer questions for end up rolling a character on Bastion and coming to play with or vs me and then hopping back in the stream to chat to ask how they did or what they could have done better. My YouTube Tutorial videos have more then double what I normally get for views on my GSF videos. Which tells me putting the word tutorial in the title attracts way more players to watch then simply a normal GSF video, so we're definitely reaching new players with those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caederon Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 As for as Twitch goes I Average about 10 viewers every time I stream. Most of my viewers seem brand new to the game, I encourage questions and get many of them. Interestingly many of the new players that I do answer questions for end up rolling a character on Bastion and coming to play with or vs me and then hopping back in the stream to chat to ask how they did or what they could have done better. My YouTube Tutorial videos have more then double what I normally get for views on my GSF videos. Which tells me putting the word tutorial in the title attracts way more players to watch then simply a normal GSF video, so we're definitely reaching new players with those too. That is definitely heartening to hear that you're getting new, curious players on board. I think there are a lot more people out there who would be interested in GSF if they saw it at its best and had proper instruction. The question is how to reach them, especially the ones that don't come to this forum. Do you think it would generate any positive response if someone posted a 'Hey, GSF still exists and we have all these great tutorial resources to get you into it...' type of post in the general discussion forums here? I've thought for a while that it might be possible to get coverage on gaming sites like RPS, MassivelyOP (which used to be Massively), Polygon or maybe blogs about space shooters. An article with the angle 'unjustly abandoned game sees strong community support' could be interesting enough to get some attention and generate interest. I could try drafting such an article, but any thoughts on where to place emphasis and what ought to be covered would be welcome. - Despon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lendul Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) That is definitely heartening to hear that you're getting new, curious players on board. I think there are a lot more people out there who would be interested in GSF if they saw it at its best and had proper instruction. The question is how to reach them, especially the ones that don't come to this forum. Do you think it would generate any positive response if someone posted a 'Hey, GSF still exists and we have all these great tutorial resources to get you into it...' type of post in the general discussion forums here? I've thought for a while that it might be possible to get coverage on gaming sites like RPS, MassivelyOP (which used to be Massively), Polygon or maybe blogs about space shooters. An article with the angle 'unjustly abandoned game sees strong community support' could be interesting enough to get some attention and generate interest. I could try drafting such an article, but any thoughts on where to place emphasis and what ought to be covered would be welcome. - DesponThe answer to this question is so simple it is sad and would take minimal effort from the devs. All they(The devs aka @SWTOR) would have to do is tweet about a super serious stream. Edited May 3, 2015 by Lendul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 so TL;DR the GSF board is finally starting to have threads reflective of it's PvP nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caederon Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The answer to this question is so simple it is sad and would talk minimal effort from the devs. All they(The devs aka @SWTOR) would have to do is tweet about a super serious stream. Sure, but given that we have near zero likelihood of dev support, there's no point in wishing for that to happen. Either we choose to let chance dictate the direction of GSF participation, or we try to use whatever means are at our disposal to get more people playing and interested. We pretty much have to proceed with the understanding that no dev support is forthcoming. - Despon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telbor Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 1. STOCK NIGHT This was meant initially as the ultimate playing field leveler. It definitely got a lot of veterans from many servers to come together to play. Did it do anything for new players that is quantifiable? This was very successful at connecting the little mudpuddles of each server into a larger community pool of veterans. Did it grow the game at all? 2. SUPER SERIOUS NIGHT Clearly this is a veteran event, but it produces some really great matches and many of those have been recorded on video. These are the kind of matches that people ought to see, to show them what GSF can be like. Do any new players beyond the borders of this forum see these or know about them? 3. TWITCH STREAMING Is this mainly just preaching to the choir? Do new pilots ever actually go to these? What are the viewership #s like? I know I like watching GSF matches almost as much as I like playing them. How can we promote these more? GSF is a great game to watch. 4. YOUTUBE TUTORIAL VIDEOS Drakolich made some of these, and they are great. Are new pilots watching? Are we leading horses to water and watching them fail to drink? How can we get more eyes on these? - Despon These are all great ways to get new people into GSF. I would like it to propose another way. I will be running a GSF boot camp for a number of guildies and anyone else who would like to join. I will be trying to get a full 24 man operation group with a mix of veterans and beginners, then all 6 groups queuing about 5 minutes after a regular match starts. I will be attempting this for the first time tonight and will let you all know how it goes. Gonna go over the basics that the tutorial doesn't really cover that well or just completely disregards. I'm going to spend the first 10 minutes of the match letting people fly around, locking on, LOSing, missles breaks, power management and etc. it will be on the shadowlands imp side if anyone would like to hop in and give a few tips to beginning pilots. IMO if we did this on every server, or spread the word about it, it would bring some new blood into gsf without having them rage quit and never queue again because they got steamrolled by a pre-made 5 ship team who are on voice chat with each other coordinating. Any vets out there that want to donate some time towards getting some new pilots queuing or any new pilots who want to flatten that steep learning curve are welcome. It will be getting formed at about 7:30 pm EST, I'd like to start queuing around 8pm EST. Do a /who tel then in the guild slot look for Sith Night Stalkers, that'll be me, shoot me a whisper and we'll see what we can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lendul Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Sure, but given that we have near zero likelihood of dev support, there's no point in wishing for that to happen. Either we choose to let chance dictate the direction of GSF participation, or we try to use whatever means are at our disposal to get more people playing and interested. We pretty much have to proceed with the understanding that no dev support is forthcoming. - DesponI was not talking about dev support. I was talking about twitter. If we want to put matters into our own hands then we could ask "on twitter" for them to retweet or tweet a link to Drak's stream when a Super Serious was going on. I am past the point of realistically thinking that GSF will get anymore in house development, but I do not believe a tweet is a foregone idea. Edited May 4, 2015 by Lendul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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