DEVS! These Are The Changes We Need!

[waterboytkd]

Force camo utilities need to be combined into a heroic utility.

 

Leg slash utilities need to be combined into a heroic utility.

 

Guarded by the Force utilities need to be combined into a masterful utility.

 

The new concentration cc immunity needs to be spread across the other two specs.

 

The masterful utility of meditating to stack centering needs to be baseline thus being able to utilize the guarded and saber ward utilities. I just found out commando's can run around between battles casting med shot to build supercharged celerity which is yet another slap sents are supposed to spend a masterful utility to build centering before a fight via meditate.

 

And the obvious defensive forms as baseline curently enjoying a thorough reaming in the new dev post.

 

I did that with Force Camo!

 

I sort of did that with Leg Slash...really, I replaced Leg Slash with Crippling Throw at 30m. So now there's only 1 utility for that ability, and it gives the root (but no cost reductions anymore...but damage is up!).

 

I didn't move GbtF utility, but Zealous Ward instead.

 

Meditating for Centering is baseline. The Masterful utility only makes it instant for 30 stacks, rather than the 7 seconds it would normally take, and builds 30 stacks on exiting combat (plus cooling down TST and Force Leap).

 

And I moved the part of Defensive Forms that needed to be baseline (building Centering when being attacked) as part of the baseline Centering mechanic.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

waterboytkd, why are you not a developer? these changes would save Sentinels and Marauders.

[Bugattiboy]

These are really good changes. However, don't you know? Well thought out changes that could fix the class are the best way to get your feedback ignored. I though everyone knew that by now.

[Jboath]

Meditating for Centering is baseline. The Masterful utility only makes it instant for 30 stacks, rather than the 7 seconds it would normally take, and builds 30 stacks on exiting combat (plus cooling down TST and Force Leap).

 

.

 

No its not. If you don't choose the utility you do not build centering when you meditate.

[jauvtus]

No its not. If you don't choose the utility you do not build centering when you meditate.

You mistake this new passive+utility build with the old one. In old one you need utility to build centering. In this proposal, building centering is passive and utility makes it instant.

[jauvtus]

Force camo utilities need to be combined into a heroic utility.

 

Leg slash utilities need to be combined into a heroic utility.

 

Guarded by the Force utilities need to be combined into a masterful utility.

 

The new concentration cc immunity needs to be spread across the other two specs.

 

The masterful utility of meditating to stack centering needs to be baseline thus being able to utilize the guarded and saber ward utilities. I just found out commando's can run around between battles casting med shot to build supercharged celerity which is yet another slap sents are supposed to spend a masterful utility to build centering before a fight via meditate.

 

And the obvious defensive forms as baseline curently enjoying a thorough reaming in the new dev post.

 

Reading your post I'm pretty sure you confuse masterful and heroic utility levels. The order is Skillful<Masterful<Heroic, so the Heroic has the best utilities.

[jauvtus]

this is my feedback.

 

You obviously never played PvP if you think that Nimble Strike and Debilitate are not needed both.

Transendence should have never been in the Centering system. If you prioritize Transendence to Zen, it's a huge dps loss, also impossible for Cencentration. Consulars, Troopers don't need to sacrifice dps, Smugglers have rolls on GCD system, but they get defense buffs also, Guardians have tons of immunity.

For Crippling Throw, you already got an answer, it costs 3 Focus, while TST is AoE and builds 2 Focus. So dmg values are just right.

[KaellSolaris]

Have you already decided what to put in the open slot in Masterful, this may be interesting :

Virtuous Call/Frenzied

 

Each time you use an attack who consumes Focus/Rage, you reduce the active cooldown of Valorous Call/Frenzy by 1 second. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

 

And, by the way, if Pulse/Strangulate also reduce Awe/Intimidating Roar Cooldown, his name shoul be change ( because Pulse/Strangulate also exist for Guardian/Juggernalt and they use the same utility as us, like it was the case when they change Defiance/Unyielding utility for Adamant/ Inexorable)

[Warlord_Maliken]

[Edit Coming Soon: Apologies] Edited May 11, 2015 by Warlord_Maliken

[jauvtus]

Since we are one of the damage only classes, maybe more of our utilities should be based on damage. What do you think about this utility?

Unavoidable pursuit/Through victory, my chains are broken: Dealing direct weapon damage to an enemy who impaired your movement purges every movement impairing effects. This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 seconds.

This might seem a little OP, but note that we are melee, so it's not guaranteed we can hit the impairing player (most probably will need throws for that and those have CD), also the ability itself has an ICD. Do you think this is viable? Or too powerful?

[waterboytkd]

Have you already decided what to put in the open slot in Masterful, this may be interesting :

Virtuous Call/Frenzied

 

Each time you use an attack who consumes Focus/Rage, you reduce the active cooldown of Valorous Call/Frenzy by 1 second. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

 

And, by the way, if Pulse/Strangulate also reduce Awe/Intimidating Roar Cooldown, his name shoul be change ( because Pulse/Strangulate also exist for Guardian/Juggernalt and they use the same utility as us, like it was the case when they change Defiance/Unyielding utility for Adamant/ Inexorable)

 

So, I've looked at that utility a couple times. It doesn't seem bad. It would increase the number of back-to-back Zen/Berserk windows we could have, which I don't think is a problem for PvP, but I don't know what affect it would have on PvE DPS targets. And, god forbid, if hitting DPS targets required taking the utility, then we're back to a utility tax. I think for PvP, it's well-designed. It's PvE that raises possible concerns.

 

Since we are one of the damage only classes, maybe more of our utilities should be based on damage. What do you think about this utility?

Unavoidable pursuit/Through victory, my chains are broken: Dealing direct weapon damage to an enemy who impaired your movement purges every movement impairing effects. This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 seconds.

This might seem a little OP, but note that we are melee, so it's not guaranteed we can hit the impairing player (most probably will need throws for that and those have CD), also the ability itself has an ICD. Do you think this is viable? Or too powerful?

 

I think between the Tran/Pred stuff and the Force Fade/Phantom utility, we probably have enough mobility tools. Two root breakers, one on 20-30s cooldown (utilities depending) and one on a 45s cooldown (heroic utility), as well as 3-4s of MI immunity (masterful utility) every 20-25s (if comboed with a Skillful utility). It's probably enough.. Though I do like anything that makes TST/DST seem a bit better.

[DarkNecroCrusher]

So, with the latest PTS changes (and their head fake on making Defensive Forms a passive), it’s clear the devs either aren’t listening, or aren’t understanding, to what we, as a community, are asking for, especially in regards to our utilities. So rather than giving them suggestions, I just did all the design for them. If you think this should be done, please voice your opinion.

 

I know how you feel bro, good intiative.

 

EDIT: In response to feedback, some abilities have been removed or changed. Up to date as of post #60.

 

 

• As of post #18, Jedi Paladin/Sith Rage, which applied a single target taunt to Pacify/Obfuscate, has been removed, replaced by Jedi Commando/Sith Skirmisher.
  
• As of post #18, Jedi Promulgator/Cloak of Annihilation has changed, no longer issuing an AoE taunt, but instead adding a damage debuff to the end of Awe/Intimidating Roar's mezz.
  
• As of post #32, there are some other options for Ardor/Relentless.
  
• As of post #32, remove Jedi Commando/Sith Skirmisher for being generally underwhelming.
  
• As of post #32, Contemplation/Brooding has changed, no longer reducing the cooldown on Awe/Intimidating Roar, but instead reducing the active cooldown of Force Leap/Charge and Twin/Dual Saber Throw by 100% when exiting combat.
  
• As of post #32, Pulse/Strangulate has changed, also reducing the cooldown of Awe/Intimidating Roar by 15 seconds.
  
• As of post #32, removed Debilitate/Overwhelm, replaced by Nimble Strike/Ravager, which allows Master Strike/Ravage to be channeled while moving.
  
• As of post #32, removed Jedi Hospitaler/Sith Avenger, as it made Pacify/Obfuscate too powerful.
  
• As of post #38, in an effort to add more utility baseline to Sents/Maras, and clean up the utilities a bit, increased the base range of Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw to 30m, removed the Reining Reach/Maiming Reach utility, and, to keep balance, removed the cost reduction on Just Pursuit/Inescapable.
  
• As of post #38, also changed Transcendence/Predation base effects to include a movement-impairment purge, but removed the defense bonuses, and Ardor/Relentless was trimmed down to reflect this.
  
• As of post #38, moved Zealous Ward/Blood Ward to the Masterful tier, where its power-level seems appropriate.
  
• As of post #38, added Incisor/Interceptor to the Skillful tier, where its power-level seems appropriate.
  
• As of post #38, added a POSSIBLE Heroic utility, Hard-Hitting Throw/Pulverizing Throw.
  
• As of post #38, removed any changes to Pacify/Obfuscate base effects. There are no new utilities giving that ability function against Operation Bosses, so it not longer needs to be able to target them.
  
• As of post #60, added a note to Pulse/Strangulate that either the name needs to change, or the Guardian/Juggernaut utility with the same name would need the same buff.
  

 

 

Jedi Sentinel

 

 

Basic Class Changes:

• Change Centering (level 10 passive): Activating an ability that spends focus, defeating opponents, and being dealt damage builds Centering. In addition, you build up to 30 Centering over the course of using Introspection. When 30 stacks of Centering are built, you become Centered, enabling the use of Zen or Inspiration.
   
  100% agreed.
   
  
• Add Off-Hand Blocking (level 10 passive): Reduces the cooldown of Saber Ward by 60 seconds.
   
  Maybe 30 seconds instead ? CD reduction is a good idea though.
   
  
• Remove Leg Slash (level 16 active) as a power.
  100% agreed.
  
• Add Crippling Throw (level 16 active) as a power: Cooldown: 10 seconds; Focus: 3; Range: 30m; Hits the target for 2560-2778 damage, slowing its movement speed to 50% for 10 seconds, and reducing the healing it receives by 20% for 10 seconds.
   
  30m seems too much to me for a 10 sec trauma debuff + slow on a melee class without taking passives or utilities in count. I think you're making it 30m to have the same root than Guardians. Why not after all ! 100% agreed though to replace Leg Slash with it.
   
  
• Change Transcendence (level 22 active): Cooldown: 30 seconds; Purges you of all movement-impairment effects and increases your movement speed by 50%. Lasts 10 seconds.
   
  100% agreed.
   
  
• Change Valorous Call (level 48 active): Let loose a valorous call, immediately building 30 stacks of Centering, and immediately finishing the cooldown on Transcendence.
   
  100% agreed.
   
  
• Twin Saber Throw (level 51 active): Cooldown: 18s; Range: 30m; Throws both lightsabers in a straight line towards the target, dealing 1954-2119 weapon damage to all enemies directly in front of you up to 30 meters away. Affected enemies are slowed by 50% for 6 seconds. Generates 2 focus. Requires two lightsabers.
   
  100% agreed.
   
  

 

Skillful Utilities

• Jedi Enforcer: Increases the damage dealt by Rebuke by 15% and increases its duration by 4 seconds. Additionally, increases your damage reduction by 2%.
   
  100% agreed.
   
  
• Nimble Strike: Allows Master Strike to be channeled while moving.
   
  Better keep Master Strike root here and put Nimble Strike on the Masterful tier.
   
  
• Fleetfooted: Increases your movement speed by 15%. Additionally, reduces the cooldown on Transcendence by 5 seconds.
   
  Good idea !
   
  
• Trailblazer: Cyclone Slash deals 25% more damage.
   
  
• Adamant: You generate 4 focus when stunned, immobilized, put to sleep, or knocked around. Additionally, the cooldown of Resolute is reduced by 30 seconds.
   
  
• Watchguard: Reduces the cooldown of Force Kick by 2 seconds and Pacify by 15 seconds. Additionally, increases the range of Pacify to 10 meters.
   
  Great ! The utility is better like this and on this tier.
   
  
• Incisor: Force Leap, Force Melt, Clashing Blast, and Zealous Leap snare the target, reducing its movement speed by 50% for 6 seconds.
   
  Putting it here is a good idea !
   
  

 

Masterful Utilities

• Ardor: Activating Transcendence grants you 4 seconds of Ardor, granting you immunity to movement-impairment effects. POSSIBLY: OR, Activating Transcendence grants you 3 seconds of Ardor, granting you immunity to movement-impairment effects. Additionally, reduces the cooldown on Transcendence by 5 seconds.
   
  I like the 4 seconds better. We already have a 5 seconds CD reduction on the Skillful tier, it would be a bit redundant. Good idea though !
   
  
• Pulse: Reduces the cooldown on Force Stasis and Awe by 15 seconds. NOTE: Because this ability shares a name with a Guardian utility, either this name needs to change or the Guardian utility needs to be made identical.
   
  Just find a new name, Guardians have already a tool to reduce Awe CD in the Vigilance tree. I'm a bit concerned cause the utility feels a bit OP like this on this tier. I would see it better in the Heroic tier.
   
  
• Defensive Roll: Reduces the damage taken from area effects by 30%. Additionally, increases internal and elemental damage reduction by 5%.
   
  Good !
   
  
• Contemplation: Activating Introspection or exiting combat immediately builds 30 Centering. Additionally, exiting combat reduces the active cooldown of Force Leap and Twin Saber Throw by 100%.
   
  Definitely yes, but without the exiting combat gives 30 stacks thing. Introspection = 30 stacks is enough. Force Leap and TST when exiting combat will be awesome !
   
  
• Jedi Crusader: While Rebuke is active, it generates 1 focus whenever you are attacked. This effect cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds. Additionally, allows Rebuke to be used while stunned.
   
  This utility is better like this !
   
  
• Zealous Ward: Getting attacked while Saber Ward is active heals you for 3% of your maximum health. This effect cannot occur more than once every second.
   
  Better keep it in the Heroic tier and move the root on Crippling Throw here.
   
  
• OPEN SLOT Possibly add Debilitate: Master Strike immobilizes the target for the duration of the ability.
   
  See above, put it back to the Skillful tier and put MS on the move here.
   
  

 

Heroic Utilities

• Enduring: Reduces the cooldown of Guarded by the Force by 30 seconds and increases its duration by 2 seconds.
   
  Same than the changes coming. Good thing !
   
  
• Just Pursuit: Crippling Throw immobilizes the target for 3 seconds.
   
  See above, invert it with Zealous Ward. Also, why no more Focus cost reduction ?
   
  
• Transcendent Master: The movement speed bonus of Transcendence is increased by 30%. Additionally, Transcendence applies Master's Speed to your other group members within 40 meters, increasing their movement speed by 80%. Lasts 10 seconds.
   
  Definitely yes, that was one of the ideas I gave in an older post.
   
  
• Jedi Promulgator: Increases the total time Rebuke can last by 15 seconds. Additionally, when the effect of Awe ends, the target is Awed for 6 seconds, reducing its damage dealt by 10%.
   
  I like this one !
   
  
• Zen Master: Each time you consume a Zen charge, you heal yourself and each group member within 40 meters for 1% of their maximum health.
   
  Problem will be that we have two utilities tied to self heals. I would prefer Kaell's suggestion.
  Virtuous Call : Each time you use an attack that consumes Focus, the CD of Valorous Call is reduces by 2 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.
   
  
• Force Fade: Increases the duration of Force Camouflage by 2 seconds and further increases the movement speed bonus of Force Camouflage by 20%. Additionally, activating Force Camouflage removes all cleansable effects.
   
  
• OPEN SLOT Possibly add Hard-Hitting Throw: Twin Saber Throw knocks back any target within 4 meters.
   
  Maybe invert it with Force Stasis and Awe CD reduction, cause Pulse is strong enough to be put here.
   
  

 

 

 

And the last bit. Now that Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw generate focus/rage, every discipline has a reason to use it. Which means, our 6-piece set bonus can change which ability it procs off of: “Activating Twin Saber Throw or Dual Saber Throw will grant Challenger’s/Weaponmaster’s Critical Bonus, making your next Dispatch or Vicious Throw, Concentrated Slice or Furious Strike, or Merciless Slash or Annihilate critically hit. This can only happen once every 60 seconds.

 

Yep, good idea !

 

There, outside of work individual disciplines need, the AC is fixed.

 

Comments and suggestions in red in the quote =)

 

If only dev would read and listen ...

Edited May 12, 2015 by DarkNecroCrusher

[KaellSolaris]

So, I've looked at that utility a couple times. It doesn't seem bad. It would increase the number of back-to-back Zen/Berserk windows we could have, which I don't think is a problem for PvP, but I don't know what affect it would have on PvE DPS targets. And, god forbid, if hitting DPS targets required taking the utility, then we're back to a utility tax. I think for PvP, it's well-designed. It's PvE that raises possible concerns.

 

Well, in that case what do you think about this version :

Virtuous Call/Frenzied

 

When you take damage, the active cooldown of Valorous Call/Frenzy is reduce by 1 second. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

 

With this version it is more a pvp utility than a pve (we are not supposed taking damages in pve like flashpoint/raid, but can still be useful in solo)

 

Basic Class Changes

 

By the way, do you consider adding in the basic class change some modifications to be able to cut heavy burst ?

Adding to Guarded by the Force/ Undying Rage , the possibility to be used while stun or otherwise controlled ? (I know it might sound too powerful but Gbtf/UR will only have 2 minutes and 30 seconds CD at least, and making it usable while stun could be a great improvement in arena especially)

 

OR

 

allowing Force Camouflage to be used while stun or otherwise controlled.

 

The idea is to have one OR the other (not them both) of this tool which can negate/cut the heavy burst under a stun lock, many classes chose to target a Mara/sent because they are a "easy prey" under a stun lock.

 

 

About Ardor/ Relentless :

• Ardor: Activating Transcendence grants you 4 seconds of Ardor, granting you immunity to movement-impairment effects. POSSIBLY: OR, Activating Transcendence grants you 3 seconds of Ardor, granting you immunity to movement-impairment effects. Additionally, reduces the cooldown on Transcendence by 5 seconds.
  
• Relentless: Activating Predation grants Relentless for 4 seconds, granting you immunity to movement-impairment effects. POSSIBLY: OR, Activating Predation grants you Relentless for 3 seconds, granting you immunity to movement-impairment effects. Additionally, reduces the cooldown of Predation by 5 seconds.
  

Does it also purges all movement impairing effects on activation ? (I think yes, but add a little precision on this won't hurt)

 

As of post #60, added a note to Pulse/Strangulate that either the name needs to change, or the Guardian/Juggernaut utility with the same name would need the same buff.

 

Unfortunately it will create a issue if Guardian/Juggernaut get - 15 seconds CD on Awe/ Intimidating Roar, because Vigilance/Vengeance already have - 15 seconds on the CD in their discipline's path (level 52 Commanding Awe/Deafening Defense), and if they take it they will have Awe/ Intimidating Roar at 30 seconds CD or less.

 

Nimble Strike: Allows Master Strike to be channeled while moving.

Ravager: Allows Ravage to be channeled while moving.

 

If in the next patch they allows Master Strike/Ravage to be channeled while moving,

 

OR

 

If you add it in the basic class changes,

 

Then this utility should be replace by Debilitate/Overwhelm in the skillful slot.

 

In that case, can you add in the open slot in Masterful Virtuous Call/Frenzied ? is this version is good for you ?

Edited May 12, 2015 by KaellSolaris

[DarkNecroCrusher]

Bump god dammit !

[waterboytkd]

Hey all, sorry for lack of communication. Took family on vacation. Still on, but stole a moment to post from my phone.

 

I could see allowing MS/Rav to channel while moving as base, then Debilitate/Overwhelm as skillful. Channel while moving is a primarily PvE thing, though it has some solid PvP benefits as well. Some have said it's too much, but with the reduction in damage with 3.0, I don't see the OPness.

 

As for GbtF/UR or Camo being usable while stunned, I'm hesitant. There's not many abilities usable while stunned, and the ones that are tend to cause a lot of PvP rage (whether it's justified or not is another question). One thing to keep in mind with Sent/Mara is we have 2 escapes/anti-focus buttons. Camo at 45s CD and GbtF/UR at 3m CD, but it allows us to still fight. Between the two, we can be fairly survivable. I think with the CD reduction for Saber Ward and the easier access to Zealous Ward/Blood Ward, our survivability will feel much more in line with other classes, and we won't really need a DCD while stunned (and we still have access to Rebuke/CoP while stunned via utility, which is pretty solid, especially if the other Rebuke/CoP utilities get taken).

[KaellSolaris]

As for GbtF/UR or Camo being usable while stunned, I'm hesitant. There's not many abilities usable while stunned, and the ones that are tend to cause a lot of PvP rage (whether it's justified or not is another question). One thing to keep in mind with Sent/Mara is we have 2 escapes/anti-focus buttons. Camo at 45s CD and GbtF/UR at 3m CD, but it allows us to still fight. Between the two, we can be fairly survivable. I think with the CD reduction for Saber Ward and the easier access to Zealous Ward/Blood Ward, our survivability will feel much more in line with other classes, and we won't really need a DCD while stunned (and we still have access to Rebuke/CoP while stunned via utility, which is pretty solid, especially if the other Rebuke/CoP utilities get taken).

 

Well the main goal was to have something to counter heavy stun-lock + burst, even if we have two tools which can do this, but they must be use before it, with the risk to waste them if we are not the target, and if we are and don't use them in time, we cannot use them during a stun, making us "full opened" for a burst time. If we want to use them during the combo stun-lock + burst, we must use Resolute/Unleash to then use Force camo or GbtF/UR, with the risk to be "unluckily" stun right after the use Resolute/Unleash, meaning a quick death of putting our healer and team in a complicate situation.

 

Many classes have way to counter stun-lock + burst, without the need to use tools like Resolute/Unleash, but with some counterparts :

 

Guardian/Juggernaut:

 

• Focused Defense / Enrage Defense : A very powerful heal tool, able to heal you under focus.
  
• Counterpart: 120 sec CD (90 with utility), and heal only if we are damaged.
  

 

Shadow/Assassin:

 

• Phase walk: a short CD (45sec) tool which allow to move, even while stun, out of combat, up to 60 m.
  
• Counterpart : Must be use at the location where you want to go first, can be see with the yellow/purple light, and you may not be able to be out of combat once you used it
  

 

Sage/Sorcerer:

 

• Force Barrier: this tool can cut a burst and allow you to have up to 10 seconds immunity to everything, in addition if you chose a utility , it can also heal you during channel and even more after.
  
• Counterpart: a very long CD (3 minutes or 2 minutes and 30 seconds with utility), you must remain static and channel it or it won't last, leaving opportunity to be CC right after and burst again when Enduring Bastion is gone.
  

 

Soldier/Bounty Hunter ( the 4 advance classes have the same):

 

• Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload: This tool automatically trigger once your life is below 40 % HP healing you during 8 seconds.
  
• Counterpart: 3 minutes CD for most classes, 2 minutes in the other, can be wasted if your life don't go below 40 % 1 minute after activation, also, you may be killed, even if it trigger if the burst you take is really important.
  

 

 

In comparison, Rebuke/CoP while stunned is not a good issue to counter heavy burst, because it is only 20 % reduction damage up to a duration of 30 seconds. This is more a long term damage reduction than a burst counter.

 

Thinking back about it , I believed making only Force Camo usable while stun can be useful to counter stun-lock + burst, this way you may cut all incoming damage directly on you with the counter part that people know from around where you are at the beginning of you force camo and if you attack you lose your protection.

Edited May 19, 2015 by KaellSolaris

[jauvtus]

Well the main goal was to have something to counter heavy stun-lock + burst, even if we have two tools which can do this, but they must be use before it, with the risk to waste them if we are not the target, and if we are and don't use them in time, we cannot use them during a stun, making us "full opened" for a burst time. If we want to use them during the combo stun-lock + burst, we must use Resolute/Unleash to then use Force camo or GbtF/UR, with the risk to be "unluckily" stun right after the use Resolute/Unleash, meaning a quick death of putting our healer and team in a complicate situation.

 

Many classes have way to counter stun-lock + burst, without the need to use tools like Resolute/Unleash, but with some counterparts :

 

Guardian/Juggernaut:

 

• Focused Defense / Enrage Defense : A very powerful heal tool, able to heal you under focus.
  
• Counterpart: 120 sec CD (90 with utility), and heal only if we are damaged.
  

 

Shadow/Assassin:

 

• Phase walk: a short CD (45sec) tool which allow to move, even while stun, out of combat, up to 60 m.
  
• Counterpart : Must be use at the location where you want to go first, can be see with the yellow/purple light, and you may not be able to be out of combat once you used it
  

 

Sage/Sorcerer:

 

• Force Barrier: this tool can cut a burst and allow you to have up to 10 seconds immunity to everything, in addition if you chose a utility , it can also heal you during channel and even more after.
  
• Counterpart: a very long CD (3 minutes or 2 minutes and 30 seconds with utility), you must remain static and channel it or it won't last, leaving opportunity to be CC right after and burst again when Enduring Bastion is gone.
  

 

Soldier/Bounty Hunter ( the 4 advance classes have the same):

 

• Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload: This tool automatically trigger once your life is below 40 % HP healing you during 8 seconds.
  
• Counterpart: 3 minutes CD for most classes, 2 minutes in the other, can be wasted if your life don't go below 40 % 1 minute after activation, also, you may be killed, even if it trigger if the burst you take is really important.
  

 

 

In comparison, Rebuke/CoP while stunned is not a good issue to counter heavy burst, because it is only 20 % reduction damage up to a duration of 30 seconds. This is more a long term damage reduction than a burst counter.

 

Thinking back about it , I believed making only Force Camo usable while stun can be useful to counter stun-lock + burst, this way you may cut all incoming damage directly on you with the counter part that people know from around where you are at the beginning of you force camo and if you attack you lose your protection.

 

At first I thought another DCD under stun is stupid, but now I understand your argument. I'm against having too many abilities under stun, would it be enough if instead of Rebuke/CoP we could use GbtF/Undying OR Force Camo under stun? Force Camo usable under stun+cleansing all debuffs (that would be 2 utilities, not 1!) would make a nice antifocus imo.

Also the MS/Ravage channel while moving really should be baseline FOR SENT/MARA ONLY.

[jauvtus]

I've been thinking about TST/DST. It's our level 51 ability that should get buffed by discipline imo. We agree it should build 2 Focus/Rage. I really want class identities back, so I was thinking how to make it happen (Juyo - single target high dps, Ataru - high burst, Shii-Cho - AoE). My ideas:

Juyo: Refresh Overload Saber's DoT dmg OR Add another stack of Overload Saber stack (that also refreshes, so maybe too much)

Ataru: TST/DST ignores 100% armor of all targets within 4m OR TST/DST ignores 50% armor.

Shii-Cho: TST/DST damage all the targets in its path while the sabers are flying backwards, dealing 50/75% damage.

Edited May 20, 2015 by jauvtus

[Bonzenaattori]

Since we are one of the damage only classes, maybe more of our utilities should be based on damage. What do you think about this utility?

Unavoidable pursuit/Through victory, my chains are broken: Dealing direct weapon damage to an enemy who impaired your movement purges every movement impairing effects. This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 seconds.

This might seem a little OP, but note that we are melee, so it's not guaranteed we can hit the impairing player (most probably will need throws for that and those have CD), also the ability itself has an ICD. Do you think this is viable? Or too powerful?

Considering we have 3 ways to break movement effects, not even counting inadvertently charging targets vs slows and effectively locking them in place. This ability would fail to create impact at all. It would just give a melee the entitlement of being lazy

 

Well the main goal was to have something to counter heavy stun-lock + burst, even if we have two tools which can do this, but they must be use before it, with the risk to waste them if we are not the target, and if we are and don't use them in time, we cannot use them during a stun, making us "full opened" for a burst time. If we want to use them during the combo stun-lock + burst, we must use Resolute/Unleash to then use Force camo or GbtF/UR, with the risk to be "unluckily" stun right after the use Resolute/Unleash, meaning a quick death of putting our healer and team in a complicate situation.

 

Many classes have way to counter stun-lock + burst, without the need to use tools like Resolute/Unleash, but with some counterparts :

 

Guardian/Juggernaut:

Focused Defense / Enrage Defense : A very powerful heal tool, able to heal you under focus.

Counterpart: 120 sec CD (90 with utility), and heal only if we are damaged.

 

Shadow/Assassin:

Phase walk: a short CD (45sec) tool which allow to move, even while stun, out of combat, up to 60 m.

Counterpart : Must be use at the location where you want to go first, can be see with the yellow/purple light, and you may not be able to be out of combat once you used it

 

Sage/Sorcerer:

Force Barrier: this tool can cut a burst and allow you to have up to 10 seconds immunity to everything, in addition if you chose a utility , it can also heal you during channel and even more after.

Counterpart: a very long CD (3 minutes or 2 minutes and 30 seconds with utility), you must remain static and channel it or it won't last, leaving opportunity to be CC right after and burst again when Enduring Bastion is gone.

 

Soldier/Bounty Hunter ( the 4 advance classes have the same):

Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload: This tool automatically trigger once your life is below 40 % HP healing you during 8 seconds.

Counterpart: 3 minutes CD for most classes, 2 minutes in the other, can be wasted if your life don't go below 40 % 1 minute after activation, also, you may be killed, even if it trigger if the burst you take is really important.

 

 

In comparison, Rebuke/CoP while stunned is not a good issue to counter heavy burst, because it is only 20 % reduction damage up to a duration of 30 seconds. This is more a long term damage reduction than a burst counter.

 

Thinking back about it , I believed making only Force Camo usable while stun can be useful to counter stun-lock + burst, this way you may cut all incoming damage directly on you with the counter part that people know from around where you are at the beginning of you force camo and if you attack you lose your protection.

 

Funny you suggest this, because I brought this up a while back.

Many people probably haven't noticed this, but Force Camo got buffed and gives you immunity to controlling effects (including stun).

The idea of using Force Camo whilst stunned, not only buys you time, and grants you 50% damage mitigation while cloaked, but being immune saves you from being victim towards consecutive stunlocks.

It seemed my idea fell of deaf ears, but I find it interesting how more people are bringing this up.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Bonzenaattori

[DuckimusPrime]

Many people probably haven't noticed this, but Force Camo got buffed and gives you immunity to controlling effects (including stun).

 

This wasn't actually a helpful change to make. It just meant you could camo and run away without being caught by AOE stuns.

 

What it did though is mean that you couldn't build resolve when you were hit by an AOE stun while safe in camo.

[KaellSolaris]

Funny you suggest this, because I brought this up a while back.

Many people probably haven't noticed this, but Force Camo got buffed and gives you immunity to controlling effects (including stun).

 

This " buff " only exist to prevent you for beeing stuck after using force camo, many player have the reflex to use aoe stun / bump / root in the area where the sent/mara was supposed to be right after his camo.

 

This is a small buff, it doest purge the slow /root affecting you before you used it (unless you have the utility), and you can't use force camo if you are CC. Once under Force Camo buff if you can't attack, if you do so, you lose your cc immunity.

 

So in fact this is a really situational.

Edited May 21, 2015 by KaellSolaris

[KaellSolaris]

Well, in that case what do you think about this version :

Virtuous Call/Frenzied

 

When you take damage, the active cooldown of Valorous Call/Frenzy is reduce by 1 second. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

 

With this version it is more a pvp utility than a pve (we are not supposed taking damages in pve like flashpoint/raid, but can still be useful in solo)

 

 

 

I made some calculation around this, the cooldown of Valorous Call / Frenzy is supposed to be Shorten around 1/3 of his original CD, maybe this is a littel too powerfull for pvp

Edited May 27, 2015 by KaellSolaris

[waterboytkd]

Been thinking about the anti focus while stunned thing a bit more. Still not sure it's a good idea, but I do think if we were to get one it would have to be GbtF/UR and probably unlocked via Heroic utility. Getting an anti-stun on Force Camo would be one every 45 seconds, which is faster than most stuns. At least with GbtF/UR, it's every 3 minutes (2.5 minutes if you spend both Heroics on it).

[KaellSolaris]

Been thinking about the anti focus while stunned thing a bit more. Still not sure it's a good idea, but I do think if we were to get one it would have to be GbtF/UR and probably unlocked via Heroic utility. Getting an anti-stun on Force Camo would be one every 45 seconds, which is faster than most stuns. At least with GbtF/UR, it's every 3 minutes (2.5 minutes if you spend both Heroics on it).

 

Well, it is a necessary for PvP, Sent/Mara are very sensitive to burst under stun, because they don't have any tool in their discipline's path or in the utility which allow them to reduce/negate/heal/avoid damage under one or multiple stun.

 

The absence of this kind a ability results in a massive focus of Sent/Mara in pvp (especially in arena), because they are not able to cut the burst on their own, in this conditions, the damage they take in are really strong . A Sent/Mara under preasure has to use a lot more of Cd than other classes to get out of this kind of situation and rely on their team where most of the classes can survive on their own (And Healing/Protecting a Sent/Mara under pressure is not an easy task).

 

In addition focusing a Sent/Mara also "stuck" them in a defensive position , where they will be unable to use their full dps potential (which is good, depending the disc you played).

 

So, without a tool allowing us to evade this situation it will be very difficult for us to survive, while other classes has no difficulties at all.

 

Then Force Camouflage or GbtF/UR ? this is a good question, a comparison between existing abilities is necessary.

 

there is 2 kind of abilities out GCD :

 

- The first one with a long cooldown witch negate damage by healing/purging.

 

In this category we have tools like

 

 

• Focused Defense / Enrage Defense : A very powerful tool, able to heal you up to twelve time
   
   
  
• Force Barrier: this tool purge every debuff and block every damage allowing you to have up to 10 seconds immunity to everything, in addition if you chose a utility , it can also heal you during channel (2% hp every sec )and even more after(up to 8 % every sec during 5 secs).
   
   
  
• Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload: This tool automatically trigger once your life is below 40 % HP healing you during 8 seconds.
  

 

All this tool have a very long cooldown, and reduce incoming damage by a strong heal.

 

- The second one which allow you to get out of combat

 

 

• Phase walk: a short CD (45sec) tool which allow to move, even while stun, out of combat, up to 60 m.
  

 

Between all these ability GbtF/UR his close to the first category with his CD, but on the over side, provide only damage reduction, no purge unlike Force Barrier and no heal either like FD/ED and AR/KO. 4 to 6 secs damage reduce to 99 % is great don't get me wrong, but the counter is well know : you just have control the target or to wait until it wear off to focus again, worse if you face dot discipline, they use this time to refresh dot and prepare their burst at the end of GbtF/UR timer.

 

On the other side there is Force Camouflage, a low CD like phase walk, 50 % reduction damage, does not purge dots, but once activate you are immune to every control during 4 to 6 secs, it can purge root/slow on activation with utility. It can be use in different way, like getting out melee or to get closer to someone or just to avoid enemies, decrease grenade explosion, etc.

 

Even all this advantages, counter still exist like Stealth Scan or the anticipation of the action of the player, but being able to " vanish " at will, even for 4 seconds, can give us time to use defensive abilities and turn the table to our advantage, even if the enemies can also use this time.

 

IF we have to had a CD usable under stun, I would prefer Force Camouflage, due to the large number of possibilities it implies.

 

And also it implies the following question : What should I do ? use it to stick in melee or keep up for the moment I need to avoid a critical situation ?

Edited May 31, 2015 by KaellSolaris

[jauvtus]

Force Camo usable under stun is clearly OP, I don't support. It's 45s CD! Zealous Ward under stun would be nice imo, but if we look at it in not a combat way, GbtF/Undying makes sense, since you are not able to defend yourself, so the Force does it for you. Also it has long CD (check KO/AR for Vanguard/PT for example). I know Phase Walk, but that's only teleport, Force Camo has much more utilities. Implementing some kind of cleanse would be nice under stun though. But we can't have everything.

Also just a slight tweak to Enduring/don't remember: if GbtF/Undying is activated during stun, it last for the full duration of the stun, but prevents the use of the CC breaker (heals cleanse still work). What do you think?