Guardian PvP Tips/Utility Builds Thread

[qwopicus]

I wanted to get a consolidated thread together to allow veterans to help new players, and new players to ask questions about guardian PvP. I'll also post a few builds in here, even though I'm not an MLG pro

(Unless otherwise noted, these tips are for real PvP (regs))

 

Use guardian leap prolifically. This ability can be a godsend, and is very under-appreciated. A 20-30% damage reduction is worth a heroic utility for some classes, and you can throw it out every 15-20 seconds. It's also a huge augmentation to your ability. Picture this: a sniper opens up on you at 35 meters. You can leap to an ally, and then an enemy, putting almost 100m between you and your enemy. Even more amazing it huttball, particularly on Quesh.

 

Taunt or kick. Keep your taunt bound and use it more or less on cooldown. Prioritize burst classes for taunting. Remember that your AoE taunt doesn't work unless you're in Soresu form. It might be worth running into a big brawl in Soresu, even if you're DPS specced. AoE taunt and then stance switch and go to town.

 

Remember the AoE. Don't unbind force sweep just yet. While the damage for focus is down, it can still be a superior choice against 3 or more targets. The same goes for defense and vigilance: your DoT spread can be potent, and an AoE guardian slash is powerful. Hop into the fray.

 

Know your defensives. These are the abilities that define the guardian class. Saber ward for mainly M/R damage, reflect for big hits, and warding call for F/T. Good use of reflect in particular is what separates the good from the great. Remember your adrenal as well, which I recommend when you'd normally use your saber ward, and it's on CD.

 

Cats have nine lives, we have three. You should really never die as a guardian without these abilities on cooldown. Intelligent use of them is important. Don't pop FD in a 5v1 unless you're trying to hold a node for a few seconds. And don't wait until you're at 10% health to pop enure. Generally you will prioritize like this:

 

Against burst specs: Pop FD at 60-70%

Against DoT or sustained specs: Pop FD at 40-50%

 

Pop enure before you reach 30% (execute zone). If you aren't receiving heal support within seconds, use your medpack+stunbreak heal. If you still go down, congratulations: you're a huge pain in the *** for the enemy team.

 

Moar CC please. You have an AoE mezz, use it. Just don't be the guy who immediately breaks it, or uses it on DoTed targets. I like to leap to the nearest enemy in Novare Coast and mezz their entire mid rush. Force stasis should be saved to counter force speed or HO, or perhaps to lock down a healer. Force push is best for throwing an enemy off a ledge, or getting a double leap. I recommend using a slow beforehand to impair their return.

 

Don't overextend. Remain mindful of where your teammates are and don't charge away from the group without a good reason. Chasing kills is never helpful to your team. It's tempting to feel invincible and abandon common sense, but if you do, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

DPS Specific Tips: Pick your targets well. I know the lure of beating your face into that sorc healer for half an hour, but soloing healers isn't your strength. Provide AoE and single target pressure in vigilance, and burst away wounded targets before they anticipate using DCDs in focus.

 

Tank Specific Tips: Be a nuisance. You have two stuns, a push, an AoE mezz, AoE pressure, and you're a nightmare to take down. Don't just tunnel vision onto a healer and forget the battle around you. Guard swap proactively and taunt prolifically.

 

Utility Builds:

For every build, I'll recommend Second Wind, Battlefield Command, and Debilitation.

 

Debuffer Build:

Pulse, Intervention (if DPS), Purifying Sweep (if Tank)

Jedi Warden, Whiplash

 

This builds sacrifices some survivability to augment your CC, turning you into a massive annoyance for the enemy team. Pushing, stunning, slowing, immobilizing, this build is a great complement to a decent team. Good for huttball.

 

Group Support Build:

Guardianship, Inspiring force

Intercessor, True harmony

 

Relatively niche build, use if you want a unique playstyle, or you're a fan of the extra mobility.

 

Unkillable Build:

Pulse, Intervention

Daunting Presence, Through Peace

 

A good pugging build, putting your third live on a 1:30 cooldown is a major boon, and the extra interrupt and reflect duration can be a godsend against certain builds.

 

Damage Build:

Gather Strength, Intervention

Intercessor, True harmony

 

This is another solid pugging build, adding damage and mobility to help you stay on target.

 

Hopefully you found this helpful, feel free to leave constructive feedback.

Edited April 24, 2015 by qwopicus

[Dalfurend]

It would probably be helpful to separate tank and dps as far as utilities go maybe?

 

/agree 99.9% with everything until utility talk.

 

That 0.1% comes from the healer focus bit. If you keep up with interrupts properly, there is no one healers hate more than a Jugg. If even one other person tickles an unguarded healer gg, if not the healer will not be able to keep anyone else up unless they get peels which = dot spread.

 

You know, I really wish we could change utilities before matches started.

 

Apart from a few key utilities that are a MUST - the 3 skillful ones and daunting/intimidating presence - the others have a little bit of wiggle room based on how many healers or which map you have. TBH after those your utilities will not change your playstyle drastically.

 

Pretty much I set up my utilities to bolster up my role - dps. You know what they say the best defense is. If a healer is getting focused you can always guardian leap / stance dance then guard them until they get their get back up - which is partially why I take the reduced focused/enraged defense CD.

 

I also have a vengeance/vigilance specific guide in my sig.

[qwopicus]

You know, I really wish we could change utilities before matches started.

 

Same here. The reason I didn't make daunting presence mandatory was that this was mainly aimed at beginners, who probably don't know how to get the most mileage out of reflect. And messing around can be fun

 

As for healers, can you share your strategies? Mando/merc is a cakewalk, but the other can be a massive annoyance. Perhaps I'm just salty because it feels like you're useless when you smash his face in with a lightsaber for 5 minutes and make no progress.

[Dalfurend]

Same here. The reason I didn't make daunting presence mandatory was that this was mainly aimed at beginners, who probably don't know how to get the most mileage out of reflect. And messing around can be fun

 

As for healers, can you share your strategies? Mando/merc is a cakewalk, but the other can be a massive annoyance. Perhaps I'm just salty because it feels like you're useless when you smash his face in with a lightsaber for 5 minutes and make no progress.

 

Daunting Presence is there for the interrupt reset more so than the reflect.

 

The point is to kill them, but if you prevent them from healing everyone else, then you are still helping in a big way.

 

Sorcs are pretty squishy, and so long as you are aware of their bubblestun and break it from range with scream/dispatch, it should not be extremely difficult to keep them locked down at the very least. If they have peels and a tank that's a different story, as it would be for all dps.

 

Killing OPs as vengeance solo is a pain, tbh I dunno if it's possible. If you have teammates it becomes wayyy more doable.

[GrandLordMenace]

Daunting Presence is there for the interrupt reset more so than the reflect.

 

The point is to kill them, but if you prevent them from healing everyone else, then you are still helping in a big way.

 

Sorcs are pretty squishy, and so long as you are aware of their bubblestun and break it from range with scream/dispatch, it should not be extremely difficult to keep them locked down at the very least. If they have peels and a tank that's a different story, as it would be for all dps.

 

Killing OPs as vengeance solo is a pain, tbh I dunno if it's possible. If you have teammates it becomes wayyy more doable.

 

Greatest part about running alacrity? bubble stun never hurts me, I break it before my unremitting goes down with master strike.

[qwopicus]

ALAAAAAACRITY

 

(Is alac better than surge for PvP? What about focus PvP? Numbers?)

[Zoom_VI]

ALAAAAAACRITY

 

(Is alac better than surge for PvP? What about focus PvP? Numbers?)

 

First of it's not a "is better than" relationship. Optimally you should have a certain amount of alacrity and a certain amount of surge. Now you should have more surge than alacrity but I don't have any exact figures off the top of my head

[Dalfurend]

Greatest part about running alacrity? bubble stun never hurts me, I break it before my unremitting goes down with master strike.

 

Haha, I heal on a sorc and bubble goes up after unremitting. That's the best way for your own peeling purposes.

 

When a knight leaps the order of CDs is pretty much speed to create distance, bubble, and kb to interrupt ravage.

 

But not all sorcs do this.

[adproduction]

Use guardian leap prolifically.

 

Good ability to use if you are trying to run the Huttball or to pop out occasionally when in a 4v4 to reduce your damage. In a big battle, unless I follow you everywhere, we are either 1) going to get separate BY A GREAT DISTANCE/PITFALL or 2) in having to follow you are around, we become a big target, which means an easy AOE attempt. However, Guardians are not DR batteries meaning I can keep popping this off and fighting at the same time.

 

Taunt or kick.

 

Indeed, only Soresu can make use of taunt and combine with Challenging Call you utility, can you reduce damage across the board. Kick is good people who channel or charge their abilities. It's good to combine Kick with another ability to make a combo such as a kick into a master strike or Riptose. This way you can keep up your damage in-between interrupts.

 

Remember the AoE.

 

Depends on spec, utility, and the AOE in question. Defense/Immortal are good AOES while Vigilance/Vengeance are good at single damage. Vigilance Spec would probably want to use one AOE to do damage to everyone while the Defense Spec may want to AOEs that slow down enemies or protect others.

 

Know your defensives.

 

PvP is a tricky mistress as nothing goes as it should. Saberward can be used at any time, but is best used if you being focused on and Reflect damage should be used as a second line of defense. Warding call should be used immediately along with enure and focus defense because you are still going t lose your health when enure ends or the damage being done can still kill you if you aren't careful. Use your DR adernal along with your healing adernal.

 

Cats have nine lives, we have three.

 

See above and I agree with this.

 

Pop enure before you reach 30% (execute zone). If you aren't receiving heal support within seconds, use your medpack+stunbreak heal. If you still go down, congratulations: you're a huge pain in the *** for the enemy team.

 

Pop enure with focus defense (or the healing adernal) or else you will die when this wears off.

 

Moar CC please.

 

See pvp being a tricky mistress, but it helps to know how to use your skills as oppose to when.

 

Force Stasis has to be properly aimed just like force push so these skills are best used when anticipating an opponent such as force speed as noted above or killing blow from a opponent. It's good to interrupt an attack, stop a would-be runner, or give you some time to breath from a onslaught from a dps.

 

Force push has 4 uses: Pushing off ledge, double leap combo (also good in huttball), interrupting an attack, or separating certain members from their group such as separating the healing from his tank.

 

Force Slow should be used to keep a squishy near you or slow down a character who can't leap or has an anti-CC.

 

Saber throw utility should be used to stop runners (A dying character) or chasers. (Ex. Vigilance chasing your healer)

 

Awe can be used to crowd control melee clusters (or what I call cluster ****s) or stop enemy teams from advancing. (Your huttball carrier will love you if use this to stop a beat down)

 

Some of these CCs can be counter with certain defense shields or Anti-CCs (and diminish returns) so again be careful how you use them as guardians and juggernauts have the longest cooldowns in CCs than any other class.

 

Don't overextend.

 

No disagreement here as you can easily be caught in a hook-line-sinker tactic when trying to chase down a runner.

 

DPS Specific Tips:

 

This, but also focus fire on the weakest link and move your way up. The less people on the field, the less damage you do. Also be able to identify who will be the most problematic. If you see a enemy Vengeance SJ chasing your healer or a healer Operative healing that juggernaut, you have to decide, which is the most important to take out first.

 

Tank Specific Tips:

 

As a PURE tank you're job is to guard and provide protection. That means hopefully you have the Force Slow Utility, Guardian leap utility, and Challenging call utility. Force Slow utility allows all your allies to run faster to avoid damage/get away (This is especially good in huttball) and Challenging call utilities provides a shield of absorption. (Combined with the proper pvp gear, you can hasten the cooldown to this ability to use it again) Taunt the dps beating on your squishy, especially your healer and force leap utility reduces damage even more.

 

Love the post and I agree with most of it.

Edited April 25, 2015 by adproduction

[adproduction]

ALAAAAAACRITY

 

(Is alac better than surge for PvP? What about focus PvP? Numbers?)

 

Depends on the classes and spec. By the time, your rotations are finished, your skills should be done cooling dwn. Also you have to factor in the possibility you will be CC'ed, the person may go in stealth, etc. So in the long run alacrity is good if you are constantly in the thick of it or YOU KILL REALLY REALLY FAST, but if you are between situations or fighting one on one then alacrity is not so useful. (Again depending on class and spec)

Edited April 24, 2015 by adproduction

[Dalfurend]

I wanted to get a consolidated thread together to allow veterans to help new players, and new players to ask questions about guardian PvP.

 

Oh mah gah. Adproduction, you are not included in the category of veterans XD

 

I started reading what you wrote and had to stop. NO!

 

N. O.

 

I love you buddy, but let the big boys play for a little bit.

[adproduction]

Oh mah gah. Adproduction, you are not included in the category of veterans XD

 

I started reading what you wrote and had to stop. NO!

 

N. O.

 

I love you buddy, but let the big boys play for a little bit.

 

I don't disagree with the tips, but it's based heavily on theory fighting then experience.

 

Dalfurend: Derp...No, it isn't.

 

Unfortunately, friend, we can't predict the future and saying to use move at said time when a complete different situation happens is not only bad advice but arrogance to think you counter every situation. (Your video is proof of this) Also your enemies have counters to you. (Ironically, you noted this on page 1 since you play sorcerer on how you avoid attacks)

Edited April 24, 2015 by adproduction

[GrandLordMenace]

ALAAAAAACRITY

 

(Is alac better than surge for PvP? What about focus PvP? Numbers?)

 

If you run mainstat, surge can go a lot lower, but if your alacrity budget is significantly from augments, dipping below 70% surge is unwise.

[Okod]

Taunt or kick. ... Remember that your AoE taunt doesn't work unless you're in Soresu form. ...

 

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect; I believe both single-target and AoE taunts work on players regardless of stance. There are already enough Guardians/Juggs/PTs ending matches with zero protection as it is!

[qwopicus]

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect; I believe both single-target and AoE taunts work on players regardless of stance. There are already enough Guardians/Juggs/PTs ending matches with zero protection as it is!

 

I'll test this when I get on, but I'm almost certain that AoE taunts require tank stance.

 

"When in Soresu form, all enemies within 15m are forced to attack you for 6 seconds. When not in soresu form, your threat with all enemies is reduced a moderate amount. Affected player targets have their damage dealt reduced by 30%."

[Okod]

"When in Soresu form, all enemies within 15m are forced to attack you for 6 seconds. When not in soresu form, your threat with all enemies is reduced a moderate amount. Affected player targets have their damage dealt reduced by 30%."

 

The wording is wonky, but the two sentences talking about Soresu relate to 'threat' and 'forcing to attack' which are clearly PvE related. The final sentence about player targets make no mention of Soresu form. This is certainly the way I believe it has always worked, and I'd be surprised I'm getting the protection numbers I do (as a DPS spec) if it's based purely off the single-target taunt.

[Zoom_VI]

I'll test this when I get on, but I'm almost certain that AoE taunts require tank stance.

 

"When in Soresu form, all enemies within 15m are forced to attack you for 6 seconds. When not in soresu form, your threat with all enemies is reduced a moderate amount. Affected player targets have their damage dealt reduced by 30%."

 

Which means the taunt still works on players. I can confirm this for both Guardian, Vanguard, and Assassin

[PeterSith]

First I'd like to say, this is the only thread that I've found that actually went into some discussion about utilities for guardians, so thanks for that.

 

I noticed I use a mix of utilities that you have categorized into specific types of "utility builds" . I like to mix my utilities with tank and damage utilities, though I will also agree with a previous poster about how it would be nice to change utilities while in a WZ (depending on which WZ you get into). I think not knowing and picking a 'general' set might make some utilities less viable than others, so therefore I try to mix my utilities around and not focus down one type, tank, dps, debuffer.

 

That being said, I noticed Debilitation is not as useful in practice as it is on paper. The game lags or cancels Master Strike sometimes, or it just doesn't even immobilize the target at all (players with 0 resolve), so the efficiency of it's use is lowered due to NOT working 100% of the time. I find using hilt bash followed by master strike more useful, and save my 3rd skillful utility point for Defiance or Unremitting, but this is always after I know they have use'd their CC break, and I have them white bar'd due to the Hilt Bash, and Master Strike has free rain to pummel them in the process as they're stunned.

 

As Def Guardians/ Immortal Juggs we get cc'd a lot, my resolve bar is almost always white, and that extra burst of Focus/Rage goes a long way for extra damage and utility I find. I know some people may argue that using Warding Strike, Combat Focus and Saber Throw properly, along with a Strike filler, should keep your bar full, but I find the burst DPS is quite good with this utility and I still end up running out of Focus/Rage. Take into the fact some synergies with the skills listed in your "Damage Build" like Gather Strength.

 

On the other hand Unremitting is a great choice, with the constant use of Force Leap, not to mention the synergy this utility can have with Battlefield Command, Daunting Presence, or even Preparation.

 

Let me know what you think, I'd love some input on these Skillful Utilities.

 

Which means the taunt still works on players. I can confirm this for both Guardian, Vanguard, and Assassin

 

The only restriction to Soresu Form is that you can Guard someone, all other skills work as described, some people get confused with the wording "when not in Soresu Form" part, which purely applies to PVE as a threat reducer. The damage reduced to other players is in a separate sentence and always applies to the skill, no matter what form you are in. A really good Def Guardian knows how to swap forms, and guard when needed, or swap and DPS when needed.

Edited September 16, 2015 by PeterSith

[AchillesStark]

You should probably change the OP to reflect the fact that aoe taunts work in any stance in pvp.

In pve its a threat drop but pvp, its a taunt That works exactly like single target taunt

[Dalfurend]

Not sure if this relevant place to put this, but I read something above that kind of provoked this post.

 

Please DO NOT use stuns rotationally. You may feel like it helps you get off some damage, which it might, but you ending up whitebarring your target allowing them to avoid getting killed. Also, a lot of classes have a 30% dmg reduction on stuns, you you are pretty much giving them a defensive CD every time you stun them. Hold your stuns as either an interrupt (as close to the end of the cast as possible), as a way to get the kill (when the enemy is sub 40%), or if someone is using a kiting CD (though in this case I'd more likely swap targets til it goes away). Just felt like this needs to be said.

 

Roots are frustrating in this game, but they are still worth having because it forces people to take all your damage, or use a cooldown. Forcing CDs is really important, even if it doesn't feel like you are doing much.

[Sundragon]

Do you use Accuracy in PvP, and if so, is the optimal amount put you at 100% for melee? Just wondering since every class guide seems to be written for PvE where boss fights make that important. Not sure about PvP.