Kingsbount Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yes, dear Boiware. I demand answers. Why? Well... Obviously becouse of this: "Lightning Abilities affected by Forked Lightning now have a 25% chance (down from 30%) to trigger a second arc of lightning that deals 25% damage to a target. Forked Darkness now grants a 25% chance for Crushing Darkness to tick twice (down from 30%). Additionally, Forked Darkness now grants Thundering Blast a 25% chance to produce a second blast that strikes the same target for 25% damage (both down from 30%, respectively). The damage dealt by Lightning Flash has been increased. Additionally, the cooldown of Lightning Flash has been increased to 15 seconds (up from 12 seconds). The damage dealt by Lightning Bolt has been slightly decreased. Additionally, Lightning Bolt now costs 33 Force (up from 30). Fixed an issue that caused Conduction to apply Unshakable early, negating interrupts." I hope you DO realize why THIS caused questions and absolutely fair anger of people who loves this class. Also you should noticed that i didn't mention changes about Force storm. That was predictable nerf so let it on. As for other changes... I'm not demand revert changes. I'm not demand cancel patch. I WANT REASONS. Yes. I want you to give us REASONS why you nerfed this class to the ground. Explain this to me and other players that doesn't need those changes AT ALL. GIVE US REASONS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewintelamon Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Good luck. Demanding justifications for development decisions, though, has never produced much fruit on any forum I'm aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 They wont do as you say, for one standout reason, they do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 If you were on PTS forums while this was being discussed and you have any actual concept of character balance you would understand. In Essence many of those abilities (and those of the Pub side mirror) were clearly overpowered. Even in an optimal single target rotation... both PvE and PvP...you were including AoE abilities. Including your AoE abilities to max ST dps is kinda crazy and a clear indication that of an "issue." The reason Bioware doesn't give "announcements" is because it is all discussed on the PTS forums (90% of the time). Not trying to be rude but simply because people don't have an interest of looking there doesn't make it Bioware's responsibility to provide the cliff notes of a discussion that at times goes on for months. This was BOUND to be the case with some classes after the complete change to abilities and the level cap rise. Some with be underpowered and others overpowered. They get adjusted accordingly... As much as people have fun when overpowered it messes with everyone else in not just pvP but PvE FP and OPs content. PS I am a Sage main on Pub side... not someone from another class trying to justify a nerf to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Reasons: Fine members of the galactic community, Just wanted to pop up and thank you all for the continued feedback. We are testing many of your ideas presently. Even if some of these changes do not come around in this patch cycle, we are archiving community perspectives/ideas for future updates. [...snip...] 2) Discussions regarding DPS buffs have been tossed around by many of you, and I want to restate what some of you have already discerned: Classes who are observed doing less damage than others do not necessarily need a DPS buff. Instead, over-performing classes need to have their DPS reduced to balanced, comparable levels. Alongside Quality of Life and Utility improvements across all classes, this is the central focus of our upcoming class update patches. Simply raising DPS levels to match the highest performers would drastically skew the fundamental balance of PvE scenarios and surge the PvP “time-to-kill” ratios to unfavorable levels. Instead, we are targeting over/under-performing groups in initiative focused updates. As a final reminder, I ask that everyone stay focused on the Classes, Disciplines, and initiatives being discussed in these threads. When conversations derail due to tangential commentary or confrontational quibbles, we developers have a more difficult time gleaning your earnest feedback. Keep it clean, folks. We’re all working to improve the Star Wars: The Old Republic play experience. Thank you all for your perspectives and insight. The final update for the 3.2 PTS is coming later this week, and we look forward to seeing your response. Cheers, all! -John Edited April 7, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 If you were on PTS forums while this was being discussed and you have any actual concept of character balance you would understand. In Essence many of those abilities (and those of the Pub side mirror) were clearly overpowered. Even in an optimal single target rotation... both PvE and PvP...you were including AoE abilities. Including your AoE abilities to max ST dps is kinda crazy and a clear indication that of an "issue." The reason Bioware doesn't give "announcements" is because it is all discussed on the PTS forums (90% of the time). Not trying to be rude but simply because people don't have an interest of looking there doesn't make it Bioware's responsibility to provide the cliff notes of a discussion that at times goes on for months. This was BOUND to be the case with some classes after the complete change to abilities and the level cap rise. Some with be underpowered and others overpowered. They get adjusted accordingly... As much as people have fun when overpowered it messes with everyone else in not just pvP but PvE FP and OPs content. PS I am a Sage main on Pub side... not someone from another class trying to justify a nerf to someone else. Single target rotation was OP? I'm sorry but i didn't see even a single sign of OP'ness. As i MENTIONED above - FS and FQ should be nerfed becouse it WAS overpowered. But they nerfed SINGLE target damage as well. Umm... What was your point again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Is the OP of this thread actually implying Sorcerers weren't over performing, or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I'm sorry but i didn't see even a single sign of OP'ness. Clearly they did. And I'm pretty sure they have actual data from thousands of characters' outputs as part of their observations in addition to their own anecdotal 'boots on the ground' observations and the feedback they've been getting here on the forums and elsewhere. All those different factors go into the mix, but just because it seems like some of them tend one way doesn't mean the overall weight of evidence comes out like we may think it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Reasons: This is no reason. Thats what we usually call "потому что гладиолус". This phrase can be translated as "we don't know why are we doing this" (actually it cannot be translated properly but you get the point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) This is no reason. Thats what we usually call "потому что гладиолус". This phrase can be translated as "we don't know why are we doing this" (actually it cannot be translated properly but you get the point). How in the world is: Some classes are out of balance with others If we raise all DPS to the level of the highest performance it will both screw up the difficulty curve for PVE and throw PVP out of whack with respect to other roles and the health pools of all players Therefore we will nerf the overperformers instead of buff the underperformers to bring things back into balance not a reason? Edited April 7, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 How in the world is: Some classes are out of balance with others If we raise all DPS to the level of the highest performance it will both screw up the difficulty curve for PVE and throw PVP out of whack with respect to other roles and the health pools of all players Therefore we will nerf the overperformers instead of buff the underperformers to bring things back into balance not a reason? Yeah... I totally forgot how sorcerers outperfom snipers and mercs... I'm so sorry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiredgutter Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Did someone say raisins?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Single target rotation was OP? I'm sorry but i didn't see even a single sign of OP'ness. As i MENTIONED above - FS and FQ should be nerfed becouse it WAS overpowered. But they nerfed SINGLE target damage as well. Umm... What was your point again? You do understand what forked lightning does right? I am wondering due to the statement above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 As long as they buff Madness all will be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yeah... I totally forgot how sorcerers outperfom snipers and mercs... I'm so sorry.... I like how you don't actually put forward any facts...btw to support any of your contentions. It's cute really. reminds me of middle school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 I like how you don't actually put forward any facts...btw to support any of your contentions. It's cute really. reminds me of middle school. I love how YOU actually didn't give ANY proofs of sorcs SINGLE target OUTPERFOMING. As for me - here some small gift for you. I hope you know what "parser", do you? http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/leaderboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alssaran Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yeah... I totally forgot how sorcerers outperfom snipers and mercs... I'm so sorry.... Which means the can actually come around to those two classes with 3.2.1 or during the next three weeks until 3.2 and implement some fix. They said: "We will not buff classes that are performing average in DPS, we will 'nerf' classes that are overperforming.". Simple. Funnily enough, I play all of those. Sorcerer, Gunslinger and merc. My Sorcerer in average 192 gear is slightly outperforming my merc in terms of numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Puppy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I love how YOU actually didn't give ANY proofs of sorcs SINGLE target OUTPERFOMING. As for me - here some small gift for you. I hope you know what "parser", do you? http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/leaderboard There are 2 sorc in the top 50.. NERF!! NERF!! get out the pitch forks!! burn them, burn them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Puppy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Which means the can actually come around to those two classes with 3.2.1 or during the next three weeks until 3.2 and implement some fix. They said: "We will not buff classes that are performing average in DPS, we will 'nerf' classes that are overperforming.". Simple. Funnily enough, I play all of those. Sorcerer, Gunslinger and merc. My Sorcerer in average 192 gear is slightly outperforming my merc in terms of numbers. your inability to play the other class's better does not change the fact that the other class's out perform the sorc when played right. Edited April 7, 2015 by Happy_Puppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) There are 2 sorc in the top 50.. NERF!! NERF!! get out the pitch forks!! burn them, burn them!! ahh yes a third party web site with voluntary participation = data mining the performance of all players in the actual game from the games UNIVERSAL datamine.. What makes it even worse and kinda proves my point is that the top 3 parses are on a freaking training dummy. old saying about data... "garbage in, garbage out" comes to mind. Edited April 7, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snean Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 this content made for bh/tr classes. reroll or enjoin pain. this only REASON from bioware. someone try play not this chosen classes and bw show them their error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htoncic Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 ahh yes a third party web site with voluntary participation = data mining the performance of all players in the actual game from the games UNIVERSAL datamine.. What makes it even worse and kinda proves my point is that the top 3 parses are on a freaking training dummy. old saying about data... "garbage in, garbage out" comes to mind. So, you ask for facts, and then when you are provided said facts, you disregard them by claiming that a website that accumulates data from the game is less relevant than some mystical universal datamine. Well, I think we can all agree that your post is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Puppy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 ahh yes a third party web site with voluntary participation = data mining the performance of all players in the actual game from the games UNIVERSAL datamine.. What makes it even worse and kinda proves my point is that the top 3 parses are on a freaking training dummy. old saying about data... "garbage in, garbage out" comes to mind. Sorc are not the top dps even in fights... so knock off the BS.. The issue is that most raid fights are very melee unfriendly.... so how about they fix THAT issue. On top of that why is the 3rd highest (and that's debatable if there even that high) being dragged through the dirt with both its aoe and single target dps when the TOP ones are not. If your balancing from over performing well class then those 2 should be addressed 1st. Lets not forget that totally underperforming Madness spec. AS lighting was the only real viable spec and they did nothing to really address this issue. So now lets remove the one thing sorc were good at AOE and the one thing they were ok at single target and nerf both from the only spec that raid viable.... ya that makes total sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielearley Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 There are 2 sorc in the top 50.. NERF!! NERF!! get out the pitch forks!! burn them, burn them!! Look at Operation Leader Board!!!! That real life results not Operation Dummy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dacentabaal Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Single target rotation was OP? I'm sorry but i didn't see even a single sign of OP'ness. You obviously weren't a good player at your class then...not gonna say the whole "L2P" thing as that's just silly.. but yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts