Every time PvP'rs whine and sniffle, PvE suffers

[Nothing_Shines]

Someone more energetic and interested than me could probably go through the patch notes since day one and actually count how many times "class balance" was implemented because people were using abilities to pwn NPCs in PVE and how many times it was changed to knock the FOTM in PVP off the top of the hill.

 

My suspicion is that while PVP has gotten nothing in the way of new maps compared to the PVE endgame updates/expansions, most of the "class balance" tinkering has been done by devs trying to tweek their own main toons for PVP. We all know they don't play endgame PVE or they would have noticed things like the Exploit That Shall Not Be Named pretty quick.

 

Unless the issue in question is monetized through the CM, I don't think the devs listen to any faction of players. Sometimes, I think they're outright trolling the community. Other times I suspect they use their own RNG to decide what actions they'll take week-to-week (Hint: the objectively positive, non-CM related actions are as likely to come up for discussion -let alone be implemented- as the named grophets on Rishi. A new PVP map being released has the same odds as getting Martinique Desler to spawn).

Edited March 21, 2015 by Nothing_Shines

[Nickious]

My reaction to people saying Pvpers are getting catered to.

 

 

I don't like constant whining as much as the next guy but goodness get real.

 

I think one thing for certain that both sides can agree is how pathetic sentinels/marauders are. This class is already at a major disadvantage compared to ranged classes all close range attacks, coupled with how frail and vulnerable they are. They can be a liability on ops and they are cannon fodder in pvp. This class desparately needs a major buff.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Nickious

[Djiini]

The only change I've disagreed with in the last year is that they removed Orbital Strike/XS Freighter Flyby from Op/Scoundrel, and I don't think PVP was involved in that.

 

Was it?

[ivanhedgehog]

I think the PVPers are actually right, and BW is mostly ignoring them. The only recent changes I think are PVP based are the ICD of shoulder cannon and AP being able to burst that quickly alongside their other abilities.

 

Others that are PVE based:

Lightening Sorc - Ranged burst with 2nd highest single target sustain of all classes. Needed nerf way, way bad. Should have worst single target sustained in game as ranged burst. Probably getting close to balanced there.

IO Merc - Highest single target sustained as a ranged DoT. Needed nerf bad, probably needs bigger one but better they go slowly.

PT tank - Using unload in rotation put its damage out of proportion and gave it rotational range advantage over other tanks in PVE. Not critically needed but whatever.

Hatred - I still can't explain this one but presumably they have data that the single-target DPS was superior to other melee sustained? So maybe this was PVP too but just way off the mark for what the community screamed for.

 

Regardless I'd still say most of this was PVE balance.

 

you make statements that certain classes should be nerfed but you dont tell us why. some one will ALWAYS be the top burst/ranged/sustained whatever. will your nerfing end before they all do negative damage or do you have a point? these balance changes were not made for pve, they didnt tune the ops for classes nerfed to this point. bioware is going to have to get their act together and come up with some kind of coherent plan. they seem to be using balance changes to claim they are doing stuff for pvp, rather than make wz's. we will see in a few months just how few hm op groups are left.and how many good pvpers there are left as opposed to the whiny ones that cant deal with an enemy and just cry for more nerfs.

[ivanhedgehog]

The Livestream was very illustrative of the OP's point.

 

Despite dozens of people asking about PvP during the stream, Eric stood his ground and completely and utterly ignored them. Yes, it seems very likely that Bioware makes major changes in the game based on the whims of PvPers.

 

BW uses "balance changes" = huge, untested un thought out butchery of class mechanics to claim they are doing things for their pvp comunity. both sides are being played. they dont give pvp what they really want and they dont care how badly it screws up pve.

[BrianDavion]

OP thinks BW actually gives two sh*ts about PvP in this game.

 

hahahahahahahaha

 

Excuse me...

 

hahahahahahahaha

 

 

they do spend an aweful lot of time attempting the impossiable of balancing classes in PVP when they where designed around the PVE holy trinity set up.

[Baldak]

I am having a difficult time trying to understand what all the complaints are about, from either the PvP or PvE perspective.

 

Throughout all the time from launch up to now, there have been many changes. Each time a change is made, the complaints run wild on the forums. Each set of changes affected game play and players needed to adjust to the changes., and they did adjust. I can't think of any changes, bugs not included, that made the game impossible to play. I have leveled characters from start to max at various times and have always been able to complete my class story & planetary quests and participate in FP's, Ops, and PvP. I can still do this right now.

 

Did some of the changes irk me because they affected a particular ability that I liked using, yes. Did any of the changes make the game unplayable, no. Will future changes irk me, probably. Will they make the game unplayable, probably not. will I adjust to the changes, absolutely.

[mmmbuddah]

you make statements that certain classes should be nerfed but you dont tell us why. some one will ALWAYS be the top burst/ranged/sustained whatever. will your nerfing end before they all do negative damage or do you have a point? these balance changes were not made for pve, they didnt tune the ops for classes nerfed to this point. bioware is going to have to get their act together and come up with some kind of coherent plan. they seem to be using balance changes to claim they are doing stuff for pvp, rather than make wz's. we will see in a few months just how few hm op groups are left.and how many good pvpers there are left as opposed to the whiny ones that cant deal with an enemy and just cry for more nerfs.

 

Um, actually, yeah, all those he mentioned, were pve changes, anyone in their right mind would not have nerfed commando , any of their specs, for pvp. Stop living in denial.

[mmmbuddah]

they do spend an aweful lot of time attempting the impossiable of balancing classes in PVP when they where designed around the PVE holy trinity set up.

 

The concept is actually pretty simple, and other games have done it before, balance the game around PvP, then develop the new content around those balances. Problems solved. Instead BW is doing the impossible, making content, balancing characters around that, and then trying to ping pong balance between pvp and pve, which does not work.

[Baddieologist]

every time pve players wine and complain. pvp suffers. just look at the class inbablce in pvp right now. sin / shadow is stupid dumb bc they were not viable dps in pve. now that has changed and 50% of the pvp pop is playing and overpowerd shadow / sin.

[SgtJeremy]

I don't see how class balances effect PvE all that much really. All these nerfs for PvP actually don't hurt my PvE experience all that much if at all. Unless they fiddle with the rotation then obviously that negatively effects everyone. And given the main thing PvPers want are some god damn Warzone maps I fail to see how Bioware is going out of their way listening to PvPers at the expense of PvEers.

[ivanhedgehog]

Um, actually, yeah, all those he mentioned, were pve changes, anyone in their right mind would not have nerfed commando , any of their specs, for pvp. Stop living in denial.

 

why exactly does the 2nd highest burst need to be nerfed? (what about the highest)? when that class is now the lowest, do you continue on to the new highest and destroy it? when do you stop there will always be a top parsing spec. ALWAYS. this is like putting a kid in a round room and telling him to pee in the corner...not going to work

[Foambreaker]

lol, don't know what is more pathetic, the OPs weeping or the reality that BW doesn't give a **** about PvP.

[Dysfunxtional]

And vice versa .... 2.0 Nerf to Pyrotech Powertechs was because of PvE QQ about a hybrid spec.

 

GG

[Papazmurf]

lol, don't know what is more pathetic, the OPs weeping or the reality that BW doesn't give a **** about PvP.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[ElZaguero]

Strongly agree with OP, despite the scathing sarcasm leveled against him in response.

 

It is time and past time for the PVE-only community to stand up and speak out against our play being nerfed in order to cater to the PVP-obsessed minority.

[Pagy]

I think the PVPers are actually right, and BW is mostly ignoring them. The only recent changes I think are PVP based are the ICD of shoulder cannon and AP being able to burst that quickly alongside their other abilities.

 

Others that are PVE based:

Lightening Sorc - Ranged burst with 2nd highest single target sustain of all classes. Needed nerf way, way bad. Should have worst single target sustained in game as ranged burst. Probably getting close to balanced there.

IO Merc - Highest single target sustained as a ranged DoT. Needed nerf bad, probably needs bigger one but better they go slowly.

PT tank - Using unload in rotation put its damage out of proportion and gave it rotational range advantage over other tanks in PVE. Not critically needed but whatever.

Hatred - I still can't explain this one but presumably they have data that the single-target DPS was superior to other melee sustained? So maybe this was PVP too but just way off the mark for what the community screamed for.

 

Regardless I'd still say most of this was PVE balance.

100% correct but whiners like the op wont ever realize it.

[Pagy]

Yeah, well to each their own. I don't like being ganked, as I said I play the game to relax, not shiver in paranoia that some dbag is going to get me while I look away a second. I like being able to park myself whereever and do what I need to do on the spur of the moment. If you want to play in that kind of environment, well good for you. I don't, and if they ever forced that onto a PVE server I'd be gone so fast your head would spin, because I don't pay my hard earned money to be abused tyvm.

 

And yeah, there are psychopaths. A real competitive pvper will play with people who are present, and at a lvl similar as their own. Some pvpers will, and I can respect that. I didn't gank newbies when I played my pvp games. Skill and competitiveness is better measured battling your equals or betters, not someone less than you.

 

My point is, keep the pvp on the pvp servers, and keep it the hell out of pve. And that includes their so called efforts to balance classes. It screws things up for pve-ers, bottom line.

this is hilarious

 

"to each their own"

"people that dont like the same things as me are psychopaths"

Edited March 21, 2015 by Pagy

[Lunafox]

this is hilarious

 

 

"people that dont like the same things as me are psychopaths"

-- Don't put this BS in quotes, because that's not what I said.

 

People that go around ganking people and generally being nuisances to other people, with no care or regard for anyone else but themselves, are psychopaths. People who repeatedly torture other people and ruin their gameplay are psychopaths. There are people, who once they've killed you, they keep doing it, that's just sick and ruining the other person's fun. Willfully and repeatedly ruining other people's ability to enjoy the game makes a psychopath.

 

Learn to read and learn to quote.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Lunafox

[Pagy]

-- Don't put this BS in quotes, because that's not what I said.

 

People that go around ganking people and generally being nuisances to other people, with no care or regard for anyone else but themselves, are psychopaths. People who repeatedly torture other people and ruin their gameplay are psychopaths. There are people, who once they've killed you, they keep doing it, that's just sick and ruining the other person's fun. Willfully and repeatedly ruining other people's ability to enjoy the game makes a psychopath.

 

Learn to read and learn to quote.

lol its exactly what you said. in fact, you just said it again.

 

its a video game. killing other players is the objective. not everyone freaks out like a big baby like you when they die in said video game. people join the servertype to enjoy themselves.

 

just because you dont like pvp, that doesnt mean people that do are pyschopaths.

 

accusing someone playing pvp of being a psychopath is the equivalent of accusing a pokemon player of animal abuse.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Pagy

[cashogy_reborn]

OP is a fool.

 

This game has the worst PvP support I have ever seen in a game.

[Vertex]

Well PVE isn't competitive, who the hell cares if a class is doing a little bit too much or too little DPS in PVE? It's PVE, a five year old could play through it. Balance actually matters in PVP so if a class is over-performing then damn right they should nerf them because at the end of the day reducing the damage on an ability by 10% makes absolutely no difference in PVE but can make the world of difference in PVP.

 

Also, stop whining, go back to roleplaying your story missions or whatever it is PVE carebears do.

[arunav]

OP thinks BW actually gives two sh*ts about PvP in this game.

 

hahahahahahahaha

 

Excuse me...

 

hahahahahahahaha

 

When it comes to balancing and nerfing a spec, during the lifetime of the game, it has most certainly been done more often for concerns that arise in PvP.

 

The lack of content is sad, but that is a different subject.

 

PvE specs, and sometimes entire ACs, have become much less viable to use because of PvP-based nerfs. It frustrates those of us who primarily play PvE (or both, like I do), especially because the ranked community that drives these changes is so tiny in comparison to those who play the rest of the game. I'd guess there are maybe 100 people that are dedicated ranked PvP players on my ENTIRE SERVER, yet changes that affect everyone else on the PvE side of the game have to, according to even this thread, adapt.

 

I believe it's poor design to balance around 100 people on the server, when there is no balance issue in PvE for a given spec, at the expense of everyone else.

[arunav]

Well PVE isn't competitive, who the hell cares if a class is doing a little bit too much or too little DPS in PVE? It's PVE, a five year old could play through it. Balance actually matters in PVP so if a class is over-performing then damn right they should nerf them because at the end of the day reducing the damage on an ability by 10% makes absolutely no difference in PVE but can make the world of difference in PVP.

 

Also, stop whining, go back to roleplaying your story missions or whatever it is PVE carebears do.

 

Unfortunately, what you are criticizing is 95%+ of the playable parts of SWTOR. This isn't a game that focuses on WZs and arenas, and it has no OWPvP.

 

And, based on your comments, it's pretty clear you don't do HM or NiM Operations. Get together a group of 8 of your PvP friends and try the Revan operation on HM. Unless you are 4 years old, I'm betting you won't get very far.

Edited March 21, 2015 by arunav

[mmmbuddah]

Unfortunately, what you are criticizing is 95%+ of the playable parts of SWTOR. This isn't a game that focuses on WZs and arenas, and it has no OWPvP.

 

And, based on your comments, it's pretty clear you don't do HM or NiM Operations. Get together a group of 8 of your PvP friends and try the Revan operation on HM. Unless you are 4 years old, I'm betting you won't get very far.

 

Its actually pretty damned easy if you have half a brain and gear up before hand.