Silvers are the new uber-killers?!

[Dallayna]

Alright, so we've been playing SWTOR for years now and lately, while my beloved was leveling we noticed something very, very odd- he keeps getting killed.

 

Now, when SOR hit, we noticed the same imbalance that everyone did but to be honest, we didn't think much of it, just figured that it would have been fixed by now but, after his calling me in to see it, I have to admit that it is NOT just some bad day or not being geared. The silver and question and he were of the same level. He was playing his Guardian. He's level 48 and in level 47 armor- granted, not FULLY up to level, but one level should NOT have created what I saw because he went in with his companion and TWO HITS LATER HE WAS DOWN. That's it. The fight was just that long, he never even had a chance to get a hit off and apparently, he has been encountering this problem for a couple of weeks now.

 

Now, I'm wondering if this is a new issue or if this is really the way the game is supposed to be going now? What gives? I thought they had fixed this and, if they haven't, how long until they do because he is honestly talking about quitting for good and, after what I saw? I can't say that I'm overwhelmed with the urge to roll anymore characters to level myself.

 

Thanks in advance from anyone who has any information.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Dallayna

[jovianus]

Was it a 'sharpshooter' or some other ranged mob? Some of them have an ability called like, 'execute' or something that takes off a major chunk of health in one shot.

[MadDutchman]

The knight has a psycho class quest on belsavis, but other than that, no I haven't had any problems

 

Been running an operative on voss, lvl 47, and haven't had any real issues. I can run kaliyo or temple, decent gear and I usually make it out of strong encounters with > 50% health.

[hallucigenocide]

i've been doing the leveling grind recently and never noticed anything like this. but i know there are some channeled abilities that can be brutal if not interrupted.. could this be the case?

[Darth_Wicked]

Was it a 'sharpshooter' or some other ranged mob? Some of them have an ability called like, 'execute' or something that takes off a major chunk of health in one shot.

 

*Terminate

[Dallayna]

Actually, I'll be honest, it happened so fast that I really didn't get a good look at the silver in question. It looked like the beloved was just out from the first base on Voss along the route towards the cave the smuggy has to keep going to meet with their contact.

 

Frankly, I didn't really believe him for like over a week now when he was complaining about it until I watched it happened. It was just some random silver- and, from what I understand, it's not just one- it's been all of them for maybe two weeks now? Hard to say since I, admittedly, was shaking my head at his complaints and just chalking them up to a bad day. I DO know that he's not undergeared and he has something like 4 other guardians so, I know that it's not his playing- not that he gotten much time to actually play since from what I saw, it seems to be quite literally; he attacks-and- BOOM!... he's down

 

The silver just flat-out p'ned him that fast, that's why I thought that it might not be a bad idea to check and see if anyone else was encountering these problems instead of just grumbling because there is just no way that seems right to me and since I haven't been through Voss since SOR came out, I figure it has to have something to do with that bug that they had concerning the silvers right after it came out.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Dallayna

[Mowermanx]

*Terminate

Suppressive Fire, is another that stings quite a lot, pre 50.

 

I have been taking note of strongs since this was brought up.

I turned on logging on my latest char I'm leveling, and also watching the numbers.

 

Its not all strongs, in fact it may only be a half a dozen on any particular planet, and some planets I never encountered any, but this will vary as different classes take you to different areas.

On Belsavis, there was an Eshka that sapped my health so much but the attacks where not that fast or damaging, upon closer inspection it was the dot he put on me, it was hitting just shy of 1k per tick, now considering people on the low end of the scale on that planet will probably have around 7-9k health, and add the damage from his attacks and from the group he was in, you are really scrambling to survive the encounter.

There was a couple on Quesh and Hoth that had similar numbers with the dots, the one on Quesh, there were 2, so right off the bat, 3/4 of your health was going to get sapped, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it... Well, if you're playing a healer and depending on the type of dot, you may be able to cleanse it, but for all the other classes, you have to eat it.

I'm up to Voss and my conclusions so far are, its the dots that cause most of the issue. There are of course some strongs with special attacks, but those can be interrupted, and its only when you encounter two of these, which is rare, and that will be a issue for some, learning how to use all their skills.

 

All in all, my main issue is, the game tells you from the start that there is weak, strong, elite and champion, and that the difficulty rises as you encounter these enemies, but in game, the strongs will be your biggest challenge on your trip to 50, and not by a small margin.

It just feels so wrong, you having to use all your skills, CD's and med pack fighting for your life to beat this random couple of strongs on your way to get to this elite big-bad-boss, and he/she just falls over and dies at the sight of you.

[Dallayna]

Suppressive Fire, is another that stings quite a lot, pre 50.

 

I have been taking note of strongs since this was brought up.

I turned on logging on my latest char I'm leveling, and also watching the numbers.

 

Its not all strongs, in fact it may only be a half a dozen on any particular planet, and some planets I never encountered any, but this will vary as different classes take you to different areas.

On Belsavis, there was an Eshka that sapped my health so much but the attacks where not that fast or damaging, upon closer inspection it was the dot he put on me, it was hitting just shy of 1k per tick, now considering people on the low end of the scale on that planet will probably have around 7-9k health, and add the damage from his attacks and from the group he was in, you are really scrambling to survive the encounter.

There was a couple on Quesh and Hoth that had similar numbers with the dots, the one on Quesh, there were 2, so right off the bat, 3/4 of your health was going to get sapped, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it... Well, if you're playing a healer and depending on the type of dot, you may be able to cleanse it, but for all the other classes, you have to eat it.

I'm up to Voss and my conclusions so far are, its the dots that cause most of the issue. There are of course some strongs with special attacks, but those can be interrupted, and its only when you encounter two of these, which is rare, and that will be a issue for some, learning how to use all their skills.

 

All in all, my main issue is, the game tells you from the start that there is weak, strong, elite and champion, and that the difficulty rises as you encounter these enemies, but in game, the strongs will be your biggest challenge on your trip to 50, and not by a small margin.

It just feels so wrong, you having to use all your skills, CD's and med pack fighting for your life to beat this random couple of strongs on your way to get to this elite big-bad-boss, and he/she just falls over and dies at the sight of you.

 

So, it's not just us then. Oh joy. I knew that the strongs (silvers) were suddenly tougher than the others but I honestly had no idea that it was this bad because we've been mostly spending our time getting various alts from 55-60 (we're maxed out of slots on one server and getting towards double digits for another so it's taking us awhile). Truth be told, he's the first one to attempt to level a new alternate since the release and, since we have so many, I just thought at first that he was complaining a bit much- particularly since the latest "official" word was that the game was supposed to be easing up on the difficulty- not increasing it!

 

After what I saw and what you're telling me, obviously he's not just complaining- there really is a huge problem. Darn. I really liked this game too. Is there any word on how long before they fix it? Because, as fun as the latest release IS.... after so many repetitions... I'd really like to be able to roll another character eventually but I honestly don't see the point if I have to start spending hours upon hours pouring through logs or calculating max damage to get another through the levels- absolutely NO offense or anything to people who DO enjoy that sort of thing (because I used to myself), but I just don't have that kind of energy anymore.

 

So, are there any plans to fix it and, if so, does anyone have a timeline? Because, this is honestly sounding like some seriously bad flashback to the last days of City of Heroes and their Incarnate system.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Dallayna

[GrimRita]

Your 'beloved' is probably also taunting all of them, which makes them ALL focus on his. With the amount of dots now in the game, its adios inside 10 seconds

[Halinalle]

I've leveled my newest Sage as heals and only times I've died was because my gear was outdated (lvl 21 green boots + lvl 31 H2+ on Nar Shaddaa ). Qyzen is mainly geared in quest reward greens. I try to use loot greens as often as possible too or green gear I've found from GTN. I only keep Qyzen's mainhand upgraded with mods from vendors. While most of my character's gear is orange or purple moddable gear (I really like to solo heroics) I still use some green pieces when I get upgrade. My next destination is Quesh and lovely Attis Station. Never done it as Sage but as heal spec'd one, I don't think it's going to be a challenge.

 

So, I say "Nerf Sage healing".

Edited March 11, 2015 by Halinalle

[Cathalo]

I was feeling rather week against Silvers myself, but then I started listening to this which helped me beat them despite gear and level deficiency.

 

 

I can't explain why this music made me a boss, but it did. Haven't been killed by golds in several weeks.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Cathalo

[Yojiro]

Take HK as your companion. Silver problem Solved.

[Halinalle]

Take HK as your companion. Silver problem Solved.

 

True.

The way HK whispers when he is starting that ability is also hilarious.

 

Me: "There's two strongs."

HK: "Master is confused. *uses Assasinate* I can only see one."

Edited March 11, 2015 by Halinalle

[Cuiwe]

They are strong, yes. Perhaps even too strong. Vorantikii Crushers deal 650dmg/s with that DoT of theirs. That's ~2k damage/3s . Now, tell me a DoT that deals such a damage before level 55. Player based DoT! I wonder if there even is such a DoT?

 

But is there something you can exploit while fighting silvers? A weakness or a weak link or anything, hm? Could it be their health and their susceptibility to being focused? Think of this, you should. Also, CC you should use.

 

If I could level as an Infiltration Shadow ever after lvl 26(man what an awesome experience!), it mustn't be so difficult. Hell, I even wound up using Nadia and it was just :cool: . That was one of the most fun experiences I had in a long time...

[Bobs_YourUncle]

I have heard this since I started, which was right when 3.0 was released. I had a problem when my first character got to Alderaan and was being one shotted, or nearly, by silver snipers. That's when I learned to use interrupts. Now im very weary of any marksmen, sniper, etc type that use those long charging high damage attacks. Another time, I was playing an operative healer using Vector as tank and all of a sudden I hit a point where he was being killed faster than I could heal him. I realized I had not purchased him any implants or an earpiece, after I got that rectified, I sailed through the game.

 

I have no reference to playing the game pre-3.0, and many have done dps logging to show some silvers doing more damage, but I believe even if they are hitting harder than before, its not to the extent that it stops progression. I've played two inquisators past level 40, an agent to 53, and now playing a trooper at level 41 on Belsalvis, a tad underleveled, and not hit a roadblock that wasn't remedied by using interrupts and upgrading gear.

[Yojiro]

HK: "Master is confused. *uses Assasinate* I can only see one."

 

Strong Mobs? What's that?

 

Though one must remember HK is the lazy option. Correct use of Defensive CD's, CC and interrupts along with decent gear for yourself (with your companion taking the leftovers you find here and there) will make things far, far smoother.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Yojiro

[TalimRann]

Make sure all buffs are active (including Stim of your preference)

 

Also, depending on which companion you are using, you can send your comp in first [Default: Ctrl+1] to soak the mob's initial big hitter move (don't try this with Doc or Rusk, but either of your Melees or T7 will actively jump into the fight.)

 

If using Doc, try using his cryo-whatever CC option to open. (no suggestions for Rusk - I've never used him)

 

Also, Force Kick and Force Stasis are your friends - plus whatever other interrupts are in the Guardian toolbag (I play Sent.)

 

Finally don't forget about Saber Ward and Rebuke - and don't overlook the benefits of having a medpack on a keybind for quick and easy access.

 

I'm right at the same level with my Sentinel and having similar issues with silvers - mostly because there are so many in some areas you cannot avoid them. I find that in a lot of cases I'll have to experiment with individual types and deviate from my 'standard rotation' in order to deal with a particular opener. (knock backs are the bane of my attack) But I have found that if I step away for a bit and come back with a new approach, they CAN all be beaten, and usually fairly easily once you figure out the "correct" combination of abilities and timing for the individual mob type.

 

Good Luck.

[Raphael_diSanto]

Since 3.0, silver Vorantiki on Voss and some of the silver gamorrean guards on Quesh have been seriously buffed. It really has nothing to do whether or not you know how to play. Their alpha strikes take a HUGE chunk of HP off an appropriately geared and levelled character.

 

They're more deadly than the gold mobs in those areas, and orders of magnitude more deadly than the other silver mobs that they hang with.

 

I'm not saying that it's a good thing or a bad thing, but it's certainly a surprising thing, because 99% of the levelling content in this game is pretty easy and it's a shock to the system to take on 1 silver and 2 normals and find that, when executing the usual strategy of 'Start with the weakest and work up to the strongest', you're dead before the 2nd normal has fallen.

 

Seems to affect melee chars more than ranged (as usual). I actually had to -play- my 37 Sentinel through Quesh, not run on autopilot. My Gunslinger was faceoll easy mode because he had most of them dead before they even closed the distance.

 

They can certainly be beaten once you realize that you do actually have to play and use your abilities and you can't skate by - And whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I leave to the reader to decide - But compared to all the other mobs around them in those same areas, they're not in balance in terms of deadliness/difficulty.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

[LoverNoFighter]

Ironic that you can't defeat 2 silvers when the devs said that they wanted players to feel like heroes fighting mutiple enemies at once.

I guess a dead hero is a good hero in SWTOR.

[Kianabamin]

Ironic that you can't defeat 2 silvers when the devs said that they wanted players to feel like heroes fighting mutiple enemies at once.

I guess a dead hero is a good hero in SWTOR.

 

The silvers are definitely stronger and/or harder to kill.

I'm playing some low level alt's and having a hard time with them.

Goldies are a piece of cake now, but run into 2 silvers when you aren't ready for them and you are in trouble!

[Yojiro]

Even IF you don't have HK to auto snub that "OMG strong" mob, crowd control is your friend...

 

Phew... much damage... very hard... wow.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Yojiro

[Savej]

Most silvers right now in the low-mid 30s hit significantly harder than golds. It was worse right after the expac release and BW did nerf the silvers quite a bit but there's still a problem. I remember something about an intention to reduce the "slog" for pre 50s characters: they were going to make fights easier and quicker - but they are a bit harder instead. Nothing's impossible or even too challenging that I've seen but it is interesting what became of that intention. Edited March 11, 2015 by Savej

[Halinalle]

Strongs on Quesh hit hard.

Currently doing Attis Station with Zenith. Who needs tanks?

[LoverNoFighter]

Making mobs hit harder doesn't raise anything but the frustration levels. Improving their AI on the other hand, now that would qualify as fun and challenging.....and for the same reasons, it will never happen.

[Dallayna]

Since 3.0, silver Vorantiki on Voss and some of the silver gamorrean guards on Quesh have been seriously buffed. It really has nothing to do whether or not you know how to play. Their alpha strikes take a HUGE chunk of HP off an appropriately geared and levelled character.

 

They're more deadly than the gold mobs in those areas, and orders of magnitude more deadly than the other silver mobs that they hang with.

 

I'm not saying that it's a good thing or a bad thing, but it's certainly a surprising thing, because 99% of the levelling content in this game is pretty easy and it's a shock to the system to take on 1 silver and 2 normals and find that, when executing the usual strategy of 'Start with the weakest and work up to the strongest', you're dead before the 2nd normal has fallen.

 

Seems to affect melee chars more than ranged (as usual). I actually had to -play- my 37 Sentinel through Quesh, not run on autopilot. My Gunslinger was faceoll easy mode because he had most of them dead before they even closed the distance.

 

They can certainly be beaten once you realize that you do actually have to play and use your abilities and you can't skate by - And whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I leave to the reader to decide - But compared to all the other mobs around them in those same areas, they're not in balance in terms of deadliness/difficulty.

 

It's quite possible that's what he's hitting. To be honest, it looked like that old bug when we first subbed that I encountered during the dream sequence on Voss for the Inquisitors- the dream sequence mission somehow was completely ignoring armor at the time for some people (myself being one). From what I saw it was quite literally: Leap In, Smash, Dead. I honestly don't think that I heard any other button presses on his part but, I'll bully him into re-creating it for me again tonight to be certain.

 

I'll be honest though because this does bring to light a second issue for me because if this is the new level of difficulty, I have hand issues that physically prevent me from being able to move that quickly so I'm not so certain that I CAN play at the new speeds required which means that we very well may have to start looking for another MMO.

 

Still, we have been here for years and really do want to keep subscribing for years more so, I'm going to see if I can roll a character that can recreate the phenomena to check it out for myself. I'm not a great tank player (see the hand issues above) so, does anyone have any recommendations for a build?

 

I know that at this point it might actually sound counter-intuitive but I want the absolute WORST build for me in this case because I am actually trying to see if there really is a physical barrier and, if so, what and where it is because, I hate to admit it but the beloved does indeed have a point: if I can't roll what I want when I want and not have any reasonable assurance of getting through to the end of the storyline, why bother?

 

Now, this is NOT to insult anyone else who's taken the changes in stride. Truth be told, I wish I could physically do what you can but, I just can't. I'll never be able to go bowling again either- that's just the way it is for me. I've known for years that despite his assurances to the contrary, teaming with the wife might have a detrimental effect on his once formidable gaming skills but that still leaves us with the problem because if HE can't level anymore, I don't stand a snowball's chance. That's actually one of the main reasons why we chose this game- it was because I COULD play it and even solo anything and everything that was available.

 

So, does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks again to everyone who's responded.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Dallayna