mpddispatch Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 How hard is it to understand that when you come into a PvP match wearing 186/192 PvE gear you're about as useless as a snow shovel in the Sahara? I mean, serioulsy. I played a match today where 4 out of 8 team members were in all 186/192 gear and sporting less than 1100 expertise. Needless to say we got slaughtered. I simply asked them what they were doing in PvP wearing that gear and I got a tirade of "I dont know WTFyour problem is but ive got 49,000 HP to your 41,000 HP". For the life of me I couldnt get them to understand that a full set of 148 gear would get 2018 expertise, and that I could go toe to toe with them and their 49,000 HP and wipe the floor with them. Its times like this that I wish we could vote "kick" someone out of pvp so we could potentially pick up someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 You have to play PVP to get PVP gear, dude. Did you have full PVP gear in your first match ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) How hard is it to understand that when you come into a PvP match wearing 186/192 PvE gear you're about as useless as a snow shovel in the Sahara? I mean, serioulsy. I played a match today where 4 out of 8 team members were in all 186/192 gear and sporting less than 1100 expertise. Needless to say we got slaughtered. I simply asked them what they were doing in PvP wearing that gear and I got a tirade of "I dont know WTFyour problem is but ive got 49,000 HP to your 41,000 HP". For the life of me I couldnt get them to understand that a full set of 148 gear would get 2018 expertise, and that I could go toe to toe with them and their 49,000 HP and wipe the floor with them. Its times like this that I wish we could vote "kick" someone out of pvp so we could potentially pick up someone else. Answered my only question right there. 8 team members = Unranked PVP. Playing in those Unranked matches is how you get PVP gear. There's no tutorial bot matches or pee-wee league for those just getting into PVP to start off in - let alone earn their Expertise gear. They have to start / learn somewhere and it sounds like that's exactly where you were choosing to play. Edited March 4, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotlu-Hunlon Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 A snow shovel is still a shovel, simply specialised for snow. It can still scoop sand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 You have to play PVP to get PVP gear, dude. Did you have full PVP gear in your first match ever? While that is true, and the OP did a poor point of explaining it... The reality is that you can take 148 blues into PvP and do BETTER than your 192 raid gear, because of how bolster works. That is what the OP was trying to say, I think, and just perhaps could have said it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damask_Rose Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) NM Heat-wave beat me to it. Edited March 4, 2015 by Damask_Rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 A snow shovel is still a shovel, simply specialised for snow. It can still scoop sand True, but the OP actually used a good example. A snow shovel is good at snow, it actually is not as good at sand, there are other shovels that are BETTER at sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpddispatch Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Answered my only question right there. 8 team members = Unranked PVP. Playing in those Unranked matches is how you get PVP gear. There's no tutorial bot matches or pee-wee league for those just getting into PVP to start off in - let alone earn their Expertise gear. They have to start / learn somewhere and it sounds like that's exactly where you were choosing to play. Of course playing PvP is HOW you get PvP gear, duh. What I couldnt get these people to understand is that until you have that PvP gear, do not come into a PvP match wearing your 186/192 PvE gear or you are going to be seriously hampered by bolster. They just didnt understand that this is going to make them a giant squishy target and its going to make it 10X more diffiicult for your team to compete. I was trying to get them to understand that someone wearing full 148 gear would kick the snot out of them and their 186/192 gear. Im not a PvP pro by any means, Hell I just started getting serious about it a few weeks ago. But all it takes is some forum or google searching to learn what gear to wear and what not to wear. Like I said, Im not a PvP god by any stretch of the imagination, but I just see so many people in PvP wearing their level 60 raid gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 if they arent really interested in pvp chances are they have no clue about bolster and how you have to downgrade your pve gear in order to be effective. even some folks that are interested in it get it wrong sometimes. truth is the way it is right now is just a hot mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legolose Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 How hard is it to understand that when you come into a PvP match wearing 186/192 PvE gear you're about as useless as a snow shovel in the Sahara? I mean, serioulsy. I played a match today where 4 out of 8 team members were in all 186/192 gear and sporting less than 1100 expertise. Needless to say we got slaughtered. I simply asked them what they were doing in PvP wearing that gear and I got a tirade of "I dont know WTFyour problem is but ive got 49,000 HP to your 41,000 HP". For the life of me I couldnt get them to understand that a full set of 148 gear would get 2018 expertise, and that I could go toe to toe with them and their 49,000 HP and wipe the floor with them. Its times like this that I wish we could vote "kick" someone out of pvp so we could potentially pick up someone else.Maybe They are working on trying to get the armor I mean how are you going to get the pvp gear if you don't play warzone?!?! Just wondering ,,, Geez ,,, This is why I stopped playing warzone ,,, Too many freaking elitist ,,,, Its suppose to be fun and not a gear grind but its apparent this is what you do so,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpddispatch Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Maybe They are working on trying to get the armor I mean how are you going to get the pvp gear if you don't play warzone?!?! Just wondering ,,, Geez ,,, This is why I stopped playing warzone ,,, Too many freaking elitist ,,,, Its suppose to be fun and not a gear grind but its apparent this is what you do so,,, Again.........you DONT have to have PvP gear to compete effectively in PvP. You can literally step into a PvP match with not one piece of PvP gear and compete, but ONLY if you have the correct gear. Everyone has to start out with zero PvP gear at first, thats common sense. Elitist? Whatever. How hard is it to go take off your top tier PvE gear, throw on some blue 148 gear and come back? I dont bash on anyone for sucking in PvP.....EVER, I will be the first to tell you that I probably suck at it. But if you cant even bother to take the time to listen to what someone is telling you about how to survive better, and go get the right gear, then you shouldnt be PvPing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazmurf Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 How are people supposed to understand how bolster works? Actually I'm just now finding out from this thread that it's better to not wear your best gear if I'm reading this correct? Are you sure? I remember when bolster first came out people just wouldn't wear any armor and it was actually better than PVP gear. I thought that was fixed. Anyways I just tried an arena with 186/192 gear and my team had full PVP gear, but I finished 2nd on team in medals and DPS. It was an all DPS team. So I'm not sure this makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sciva Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 How are people supposed to understand how bolster works? Haven't you heard, you're supposed to be omnipotent and clairvoyant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpddispatch Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 How are people supposed to understand how bolster works? Actually I'm just now finding out from this thread that it's better to not wear your best gear if I'm reading this correct? Are you sure? I remember when bolster first came out people just wouldn't wear any armor and it was actually better than PVP gear. I thought that was fixed. Anyways I just tried an arena with 186/192 gear and my team had full PVP gear, but I finished 2nd on team in medals and DPS. It was an all DPS team. So I'm not sure this makes sense. Go to the fleet, go to interfleet transport, go to the Gav Dargon, or the other ship, I cant remember which one it is, go to the bridge, in the training section there is a "Bolsterizer", its a terminal that will put bolster on you so that you can swap out gear and see what it does to your expertise stat. The expertise stat is the MOST important stat in PvP. With full 186/192 gear your expertise will probablly be around 1100-1300, the max is 2018. A full set of 148 gear will get you to the 2018 expertise. Then once you start getting your warzone comms, buy pvp gear and either wear it or swap out the mods in what you are already wearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 How hard is it to understand that when you come into a PvP match wearing 186/192 PvE gear you're about as useless as a snow shovel in the Sahara? I mean, serioulsy. I bet that I own you with my PvE gear on. You obviously are a person who solely relies on the gear. I, on the contrary, rely on my skills. But yes, a "kick" button would be good. So I could kick you out of my team and win with 7 vs. 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Go to the fleet, go to interfleet transport, go to the Gav Dargon, or the other ship, I cant remember which one it is, go to the bridge, in the training section there is a "Bolsterizer", its a terminal that will put bolster on you so that you can swap out gear and see what it does to your expertise stat. The expertise stat is the MOST important stat in PvP. With full 186/192 gear your expertise will probablly be around 1100-1300, the max is 2018. A full set of 148 gear will get you to the 2018 expertise. Then once you start getting your warzone comms, buy pvp gear and either wear it or swap out the mods in what you are already wearing. only weapons and off hands need to be 148.. rest can be up to 162 i think so like the green rishi gear is the highest pve gear should be wearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legolose Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Go to the fleet, go to interfleet transport, go to the Gav Dargon, or the other ship, I cant remember which one it is, go to the bridge, in the training section there is a "Bolsterizer", its a terminal that will put bolster on you so that you can swap out gear and see what it does to your expertise stat. The expertise stat is the MOST important stat in PvP. With full 186/192 gear your expertise will probablly be around 1100-1300, the max is 2018. A full set of 148 gear will get you to the 2018 expertise. Then once you start getting your warzone comms, buy pvp gear and either wear it or swap out the mods in what you are already wearing. To me it seems a lot to do just to have fun,,, IMO but I see what your saying but you got to think that a lot of pvp players now days wouldn't know how to do that ,, I personally wouldn't go though all that just to win a few matches when you can just play and gain comms to get the correct gear later on its just makes no since to me so,,, But with al this talk about it makes me want to try this out now just to see if it does make a difference ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Regs are serius bzns. So serioz that my 6 year-old Nephew plays in them. lol OP...you have a legit complaint for Ranked. However, Regs is where you initially gear up for PvP. Anything goes in that format so expect the worst. In addition, Bolster is actually a fairly complex system, so complex the Devs eff it up with each new iteration. To expect the average SWTOR player to fully understand its mechanics without any direct detailed explanation or description from BW is foolhardy. Just help them win, get more comms, and gear faster by carrying them. Takes a whopping week or two to get a full set of PvP gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FantaBuoy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Go to the fleet, go to interfleet transport, go to the Gav Dargon, or the other ship, I cant remember which one it is, go to the bridge, in the training section there is a "Bolsterizer", its a terminal that will put bolster on you so that you can swap out gear and see what it does to your expertise stat. The expertise stat is the MOST important stat in PvP. With full 186/192 gear your expertise will probablly be around 1100-1300, the max is 2018. A full set of 148 gear will get you to the 2018 expertise. Then once you start getting your warzone comms, buy pvp gear and either wear it or swap out the mods in what you are already wearing. The thing is, most people probably don't know about this. TBH, and as someone else mentioned above, I wouldn't know about this if I hadn't read it on a hidden thread in a shady area of the forums I rarely ever go to. It simply isn't something as generally known as you think it is. It'd be wonderful if we received a tutorial tooltip in-game explaining how bolster works, but we don't. Most players just assume having the best gear is the best option. EDIT: Also OP, correct me if I'm wrong, but judging by the way you wrote the thread, I'm guessing you didn't nicely explain to them how bolster works, you just went at them with insults and threats. This could be a wrong assessment though. Edited March 5, 2015 by FantaBuoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 While that is true, and the OP did a poor point of explaining it... The reality is that you can take 148 blues into PvP and do BETTER than your 192 raid gear, because of how bolster works. That is what the OP was trying to say, I think, and just perhaps could have said it differently. This. All it takes is a short read of one of the stickies in the PVP section to learn how bolster works. If you are stsrting out then you'd be better if with lower rates gear because it bolsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashadk Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I could swear I saw a "vote to kick from WZ option". But I'm probably wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-steve Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I could swear I saw a "vote to kick from WZ option". But I'm probably wrong. I have only ever seen it get someone kicked once, but yeah, the option is there (unless it's been yanked). It's fairly limited though - aimed primarily at getting rid of AFK-ers. If they participate in combat it clears the vote. Bottom line is, as long as they keep this two types of gear nonsense around you'll always have a debate on how to not penalize people who like to PVP vs. how to incent non-PVPers to play so the queues aren't dead. I note people rarely complain when they end up wiping the floor with an opposing team that's undergeared. IMO - best solution is to get rid of expertise and let people fight based on skill. Find some other way to reward people than with gear that has a 'special' stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielearley Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) How hard is it to understand that when you come into a PvP match wearing 186/192 PvE gear you're about as useless as a snow shovel in the Sahara? I mean, serioulsy. I played a match today where 4 out of 8 team members were in all 186/192 gear and sporting less than 1100 expertise. Needless to say we got slaughtered. I simply asked them what they were doing in PvP wearing that gear and I got a tirade of "I dont know WTFyour problem is but ive got 49,000 HP to your 41,000 HP". For the life of me I couldnt get them to understand that a full set of 148 gear would get 2018 expertise, and that I could go toe to toe with them and their 49,000 HP and wipe the floor with them. Its times like this that I wish we could vote "kick" someone out of pvp so we could potentially pick up someone else. But all the way through the levels you get terribad players, I don't claim to be a great player but I'm never at the bottom of the board for DPS and I know how to play the objectives. In 186 gear. Whilst it's agreed that expertise makes a huge difference to dps and dam reduction, intelligence is what is actually required in WZ. From what you're saying you would kick some one based on their gear rather than on their performance. People are in 186 gear because they aren't interested in PVP'ing continually so wear what they bring, they are not going to wear a set of lower gear just to make you happy. And as mentioned before the thing you want is in the game already! Edited March 5, 2015 by danielearley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLaaNie Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 ... IMO - best solution is to get rid of expertise and let people fight based on skill. Find some other way to reward people than with gear that has a 'special' stat. Nail on head, mate. Loudmouths like the OP rely on gear alone to carry them; challenge them to a naked duel with only a level 10 weapon and they will always back out of the fight with some lousy excuse. Do you know why I never participated in PvP from the get-go? Because it is always about gear and stats and never about skill. They quickly rush to pad up their stats and because they possess better gear than you, it makes them think they are somehow superior - these are the same people you see roaming in groups and harassing other players in open-world PvP and are never the first to challenge someone one versus one, and if they lose you hear a stream of excuses. Plus, I highly doubt that the OP calmly explained to the other folks why their best gear is not helping them. I know they started to yell, complain, and belittle the other people so that when the other person has to insult them, their precious world starts to crumble and they feel victimized. Besides, how is someone to know that their best gear is not helping them? Who on Earth is going to ditch their high level gear for gear they do not have when it is common knowledge that the better your gear is, the better you can perform? Not everyone visits the forums, has general chat on, or stays on the fleet long enough to learn about Bolster, and Unranked Warzones are where you earn your PvP gear, so if you do not fancy playing with people who don't meet your high-and-mighty standards of PvP, why don't you run with the big dogs in Ranked, hmmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazmurf Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Haven't you heard, you're supposed to be omnipotent and clairvoyant. I know right! In the quote below, the process is so convoluted OP couldn't even give exact instructions. Go to the fleet, go to interfleet transport, go to the Gav Dargon, or the other ship, I cant remember which one it is, go to the bridge, in the training section there is a "Bolsterizer", its a terminal that will put bolster on you so that you can swap out gear and see what it does to your expertise stat. The expertise stat is the MOST important stat in PvP. With full 186/192 gear your expertise will probablly be around 1100-1300, the max is 2018. A full set of 148 gear will get you to the 2018 expertise. Then once you start getting your warzone comms, buy pvp gear and either wear it or swap out the mods in what you are already wearing. What is this 148 gear? Is that supposed to be the old Conquerer's gear? Can you still even get it or do I need comms for it? I just started PVPing again last week, but I was in full Brutalizer pre 3.0. I'll tell you what I did when I started PVPing again last week. I wore my old Brutalizer gear in a match and got face stomped. So then I put on my lvl 60 raid gear and didn't get face stomped. Not only that i finished in the top of leaderboards with that raid gear gear. I mainly tank, but even in an Arena with the raid gear on and 3 other DPS on my team with full expertise I finished 2nd in DPS out of 4 and they out geared me expertise wise. I've got screenshots of this too (you know because I've got an ego and all.) In my experience, crap pvp gear is not giving me any advantage over my raid gear. I'm not going to go to the Gav and try to min/max gear that I'm only going to have for a few weeks until I have enough comms to have a full level 60 PVP set. Come on man, it's regular warzones, not ranked. You're being unrealistic. People do regs to get comms so they can gear up. You win some and you lose some, but I find wins comes from having a competent team in regs, not gear. You can have all the gear in the world, but if you're so focused on killing people and are not helping advance the huttball, guard pylons, etc, then you are no good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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