SpikeSaber Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I dont understand, why would BioWare make juggernaut loose that advantage, considering that Juggernaut is lowest dps it should have had atleast that advantage and they removed it. GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invertioN Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I dont understand, why would BioWare make juggernaut loose that advantage, considering that Juggernaut is lowest dps it should have had atleast that advantage and they removed it. GG. Don't agree, they can still reflect turret damage! How is doing 600k damage by just standing in fire fair lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortumnus Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) considering that Juggernaut is lowest dps lowest DPS ? - maybe but two of our Juggs are parsing 4700+ DPS on ops-dummy... should be good enough, they don`t need any "advantage" Edited March 3, 2015 by Vortumnus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 but 500+dps by reflecting turrets is? This aside, it's used for defensive in this fight. If they would make it so you can't reflect the damage, but it still protects you from it, I would be fine. Also, they STILL haven't changed the different caps for the skill on Imp and Pub side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invertioN Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) but 500+dps by reflecting turrets is? This aside, it's used for defensive in this fight. If they would make it so you can't reflect the damage, but it still protects you from it, I would be fine. Also, they STILL haven't changed the different caps for the skill on Imp and Pub side. Turrets not so bad Edited March 3, 2015 by invertioN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeSaber Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 I would say its a big advantage yeah, but compared to other dpses, juggernaut is parsing loewst than any other class. And having advantage on torque above any other class was a good thing, a little bit OP yeah but still thats why it would be nice to bring jug tank/dps there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 i think it was an interesting thing..more for tanking that to pump dps numbers, whatever it's not a killing game change..in general on patch notes, i can't wait to reach coratanni and see if it's fixed or something new awaits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanvoyager Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I really dont undertand why they have changed this. As a tank I really need that in order to not take ticks of 10.4k in HM. I have just lost the most useful defensive cooldown in that hell of a fight without warning. I have been using it since the expansion and now, near 3 months after, Bioware do this. Whats next? PT will not be able to use hydralic overrides in Blaster & Master and Revan? Force shroud will be nerfed too? Edited March 3, 2015 by titanvoyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_By_Smiley Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I'm okay with them changing this if they bothered to fix the "on strike" droids that don't repair the ship a quarter of the time. But I guess Bioware only cares about bugs that make an operation easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceroid Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 All they had to do was make the floor vents come from an enemy besides Torque himself and give that enemy 100% damage resistance and everything would be fine without nullifying a legitimate defensive cooldown. Another badly thought out nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindariel Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Lol. Bioware fixes a broken mechanik and people are crying out "nerf!", again. Floor Vent is area damage and Saber Reflect shouldn't reflect area damage. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I really dont undertand why they have changed this. As a tank I really need that in order to not take ticks of 10.4k in HM. I have just lost the most useful defensive cooldown in that hell of a fight without warning. I have been using it since the expansion and now, near 3 months after, Bioware do this. Whats next? PT will not be able to use hydralic overrides in Blaster & Master and Revan? Force shroud will be nerfed too? Because it made the fight from some on challenging to downright a joke. If you had 2 or more guardians it would cut the fight in half. You could literally have a tank parse better dps numbers than the dps with saber reflect. I wish they didn't change it but I understand why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngones Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Because it made the fight from some on challenging to downright a joke. If you had 2 or more guardians it would cut the fight in half. You could literally have a tank parse better dps numbers than the dps with saber reflect. I wish they didn't change it but I understand why This ^^ As a Jugg tank I enjoyed being top of the DPS table, but it had to change. However, the fight requiring 5 DPS (for most on HM) to down I do have issue with. Edited March 3, 2015 by youngones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myragoeshappy Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 This ^^ As a Jugg tank I enjoyed being top of the DPS table, but it had to change. However, the fight requiring 5 DPS (for most on HM) to down I do have issue with. This fight needs 5dps? realy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGITSJAD Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Because it made the fight from some on challenging to downright a joke. If you had 2 or more guardians it would cut the fight in half. You could literally have a tank parse better dps numbers than the dps with saber reflect. I wish they didn't change it but I understand why If your DPS aren't pulling more than a tank in that fight with so many AOE possibilities, they're either melee or shouldn't be doing HM content, but I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngones Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) If your DPS aren't pulling more than a tank in that fight with so many AOE possibilities, they're either melee or shouldn't be doing HM content, but I digress. Well, as a Jugg you could reflect 60-75k over 5 seconds per fire (about 30k for Guardians as they were capped at 6k a tick), and if you stacked the fire (you could easily stack 3 circles under your feet if you coordinated it easily) and reflected those stacks with two juggs at the same time, well that worked out just under 500k in 5 seconds using two Juggs every minute, on top of normal damage output. No non-jugg DPS could match that (I heard of one jugg DPS pulling easily over 9k per sec because of it). Edited March 3, 2015 by youngones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngones Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 This fight needs 5dps? realy? Well, we need to run 5 DPS to beat the enrage. Perhaps I was overzealous with the 'for most'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGITSJAD Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Well, as a Jugg you could reflect 60-75k over 5 seconds per fire (about 30k for Guardians as they were capped at 6k a tick), and if you stacked the fire (you could easily stack 3 circles under your feet if you coordinated it easily) and reflected those stacks with two juggs at the same time, well that worked out just under 500k in 5 seconds using two Juggs every minute, on top of normal damage output. No non-jugg DPS could match that (I heard of one jugg DPS pulling easily over 9k per sec because of it). 1 person ≠ 2 people Edited March 3, 2015 by OMGITSJAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoW_LugNut Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I really dont undertand why they have changed this. As a tank I really need that in order to not take ticks of 10.4k in HM. I have just lost the most useful defensive cooldown in that hell of a fight without warning. I have been using it since the expansion and now, near 3 months after, Bioware do this. Whats next? PT will not be able to use hydralic overrides in Blaster & Master and Revan? Force shroud will be nerfed too? Why would you need saber reflect to get out of the fire? I've been tanking that fight on my PT for months and I just move out of the fire O.o It was a bit tricky, at first. I died a few times until I figured out where the fires were going to spawn, but it's pretty predictable. Just stand off to the side somewhere until the fires spawn, then walk your way over to the console. Edited March 3, 2015 by VoW_LugNut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 1 person ≠ 2 people Still doing 250k dps in 5 seconds if you stack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Well, we need to run 5 DPS to beat the enrage. Perhaps I was overzealous with the 'for most'. I'm actually really curious now, so I'm implying nothing negative by the following… How is it that 5 DPS are required? I know that DoB has (at least in the past, and I assume also now?) had excellent DPS, so I'm not sure how that's possible. I've cleared this fight in about half a dozen groups now, and we've always 4 DPSed it. The only times I've ever seen the enrage are when people are doing things wrong (i.e. failing to manage their uptime correctly, dying, single-targeting the turrets, etc). Maybe just a low-AoE group? Every group I've cleared it with has run at least one class with strong spammable AoE to mow down the turrets. Melee-heavy comp? So again, absolutely no aspersions! It sounds like your group is running a different comp or strat than I've ever seen, and I'm just personally curious as to where the DPS loss is coming from. Edited March 3, 2015 by KeyboardNinja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMartinez Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I would say its a big advantage yeah, but compared to other dpses, juggernaut is parsing loewst than any other class. And having advantage on torque above any other class was a good thing, a little bit OP yeah but still thats why it would be nice to bring jug tank/dps there. its not parsing the lowest, that would be balance sage/madness sorc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngones Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I'm actually really curious now, so I'm implying nothing negative by the following… How is it that 5 DPS are required? I know that DoB has (at least in the past, and I assume also now?) had excellent DPS, so I'm not sure how that's possible. I've cleared this fight in about half a dozen groups now, and we've always 4 DPSed it. The only times I've ever seen the enrage are when people are doing things wrong (i.e. failing to manage their uptime correctly, dying, single-targeting the turrets, etc). Maybe just a low-AoE group? Every group I've cleared it with has run at least one class with strong spammable AoE to mow down the turrets. Melee-heavy comp? So again, absolutely no aspersions! It sounds like your group is running a different comp or strat than I've ever seen, and I'm just personally curious as to where the DPS loss is coming from. You are definitely correct, DOB still has outstanding DPS. Our strongest, most progression minded players make up our first team. I tank for our second team, which is more casual than our first team but also has brilliant DPS who rarely miss a beat. We do have very little spammable AOE, and often run with 2 melee DPS (at most), which undoubtedly contributes to our need to run 5 DPS. I can't speak for DOB's first team, but at the moment our team runs 5 DPS for Torque, Underlurker (an absolute must for us there) and Revanite Commanders (just because it's quicker to down running 5 DPS) in HM. Again, I may have been overzealous in my remarks above, and weighed too heavily on my own experience of the fight in judging the capabilities of the rest of the world. However, it remains true for us at the moment, and for the foreseeable future. I hope this explanation as somewhat sated your curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeSaber Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well, we need to run 5 DPS to beat the enrage. Perhaps I was overzealous with the 'for most'. Dunno what are your dpses are doing, We usually kill Torque in under 5 mins with 4 dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I can't speak for DOB's first team, but at the moment our team runs 5 DPS for Torque, Underlurker (an absolute must for us there) and Revanite Commanders (just because it's quicker to down running 5 DPS) in HM. You must have excellent healers. :-) In any case, what composition exactly? What allocation of DPS do you use on Torque? For example, here's a representative group from my guild (coincidentally all ranged, but you could adapt the same DPS allocations to a melee heavy group)… Composition is a Lightning Sorc, an IO Merc, and Arsenal Merc and a Marksmanship Sniper. IO Merc tunnels the boss. Arsenal Merc tunnels and switches off for the laser/fire adds, using AoE as much as possible. Lightning Sorc handles back two turrets on each side; Marksmanship Sniper handles front two turrets on each side. Boss is held on the opposite side of the room from the repair. Turret killing is conservative in that we will kill one side and then hold off on killing the other side if the boss is about to smash (so we maximize AoE splash on the boss). Sniper and Sorc both push the boss exclusively when not on turrets. Healers get the first two droids. Generally only two more droids are needed, though three isn't uncommon. Around 20%, we finish the turrets we're currently on and straight-up tunnel the boss down to 0. Arsenal Merc switches off to kill laser adds during burn phase and that's it. No more droids. If you have melee, it's good to have them be the ones tunneling. If you have two melee, the one with better target swapping can take care of the laser/fire droids. Turrets basically need to be killed by ranged, so the point at which this strategy breaks down wholesale is if your ranged are both playing IO and don't know how to play Arsenal (another example would be two Engineering Snipers who can't play Marksmanship). I guess just lacking spammable AoE would probably do it in nearly completely. Sweeping Blasters alone probably isn't enough to push enough AoE on the turrets. So I'm just curious as to exactly what you're doing with your DPS and where things are leaking out. Again, no criticism, just trying to learn from the issues you've seen. Edited March 3, 2015 by KeyboardNinja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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