3.0 FOTM +25% 0cd AoE OP. plz fix.

[ViolentAngel]

e.g. Force Storm, Sweeping Gunfire, Flame Sweep, Kung Fu Saber Spin, et al.

 

TLDR; I think that adding +25% damage to 0cd AOE skills have totally killed any fun there was playing PvE pre-endgame. I'd like to see the skills themselves removed/repurposed. Force Storm could be an epic Offensive Coolddown like Death From Above and Orbital Strike, and Flamesweep would make a really cool proc for Flame Burst.

 

 

Since 3.0 left Mercenaries behind and since I'm primarily Pvp focused and I want to solo queue, I've been grinding out a Powertech. Flashpoints and Pvp only. I've just hit 52 this afterrnoon, so I've done a lot of PUGs.

 

I just got through another flashpoint with a group where both DPS just spammed 0cd AOE for the whole Flashpoint, and other than the occasional Static Shield and Resurge, I swear the healer was just spamming 0cd AOE against single targets too. The Merc never used Death From Above and the Sniper never used Orbital Strike. I asked the Sniper about this, and he said he was eating his dinner while playing.

 

Force Storm is an amazing skill, really epic animation and effects. Visually is it as good, if not better than Death From Above and Oribtal Strike? Wouldn't it make a really good offensive cooldown skill?

 

Flame Sweep is pretty cool. It's not that cool when you're doing it all the time, because nevermind, all the npcs will be dead before I run out of heat anyway. I'm pretty condfident though, that Flame Sweep would make a really cool proc for Flame Burst. Let's say when the you skip the light fandango or turn cartwheels on the floor, you gain a stack of Flame Sweep that makes the next Flame Burst effect everyone in the area (like how backstab has a special animation coming out of stealth). Or maybe it's an additional effect of Flame Barrage... I'd say the same for Thrash and Kung Fu Saber Spin, but I don't play Tank'sins enough to know anything other than they already have incredible aoe.

 

When I played Merc I never felt the need for more aoe, but that was before Fusion Missile became pyro-only.

 

Since I'm attacking the 0skill 0cd AOEs anyway, can we get an option to turn down the overwhelming AOE Ground Targeterers? Just a simple circle or the enemy npc aoe attack marker or the Hutball landing spot would be nice. Not sure I ever need to see the offensive friendly aoe attack area either. Ever, actually. Flamesweep doesn't need one, why does Sweeping Gunfire?

 

[Camelpockets]

Coming from a raiding perspective, there are certain fights where those AoEs really are beneficial, such as Torque, Underlurker, Revanite Commanders, Sparky, etc. I don't agree with the current status of force storm, however, I think the rest are fine-ish. I think the melee aoes are a little on the weaker side, but the utility itself is fine.

[Llama-Eight]

Forcequake/storm aren't OP just because of the +25% damage utility, they also get a +15% crit chance & +36% crit damage passive, unlike any of the other AoEs you mention. Mortar Volly/Death from Above could probably have it's damage & area increased to bring it into line with the others (up to 8m).

 

If pugs are using AoEs constantly, even on single targets, that probably says more about their skill & the duration of the encounters (ie, very short, not much need to conserve energy/ammo/etc as you can just regen it in a few seconds when everything's dead) than it does the OPness of the AoEs themselves.

 

Edit: And FFB/Orbital Wet Noodle look cool, but do **** all damage for their energy cost, compared to Sweeping Gunfire (& the other AoEs in the game). It's sad when a grenade does as much (possibly more, I'm not in-game at the moment) damage instantly than a much longer cooldown skill does over 9 seconds (though it is elemental rather than kinetic damage).

Edited March 2, 2015 by Llama-Eight

[mastervalkar]

Forcequake and Force Storm are the elite AoE powers. Always have been, always will be. Orbital Strike/F-Flyby used to be there as well. I understand that with Lightning/TK added damage and surge bonuses, all some people feel the need to use is Storm/Quake. I agree with others that that says more to the player's skill then the power of the ability.

 

Now, how does all the supped up AoE make the game less fun. I cannot tell you how much fun I've had on my Sniper since 3.0 in Marks with Suppressive Fire. I had so much fun, I leveled a Gunslinger just to get 60 level to experience the fun in! It makes getting through difficult encounters that much easy to handle. Add to that the many other awesome changes in Marks and Sharpshooter, and I'm playing both 75-80% of the time now to farm with.

 

Some specs badly needed the boost. Infiltration/Deception had zero viable AoE before they added the the Damage/Surge bonus to Whirling Blow/Lacerate. Combat/Carnage gets fun Cyclone/Sweeping Slash Ataru auto- procs. AP/Tactics got stronger Grenade/Dart and DFA/Volley, while Pyro/Plasma got burns with their Flamethrower/Plasma Cannon. All of this made those specs easier to level with. Also made them more valuable in PVE overall (in general).

[llayles]

The problem with force storm is its power curve. It needs to spike harder and closer to the endgame.

[Ardusnyc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak7J3AOElXk

 

http://i.imgur.com/jLZz4Na.gif

 

On a serious note ...

 

I think that adding +25% damage to 0cd AOE skills have totally killed any fun there was playing PvE pre-endgame.

 

I just got through another flashpoint with a group where both DPS just spammed 0cd AOE for the whole Flashpoint, and other than the occasional Static Shield and Resurge, I swear the healer was just spamming 0cd AOE against single targets too. The Merc never used Death From Above and the Sniper never used Orbital Strike. I asked the Sniper about this, and he said he was eating his dinner while playing.

 

You're complaining about trash pulls ... in PvE? You just went full retard.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Ardusnyc

[llayles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak7J3AOElXk

 

http://i.imgur.com/jLZz4Na.gif

 

On a serious note ...

 

 

 

 

 

You're complaining about trash pulls ... in PvE? You just went full retard.

 

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

The complaint is that these AOEs make the game criminally easy.

[ViolentAngel]

full retard

 

Welcome to 3.0, where Full Retard now has 25% more damage, 15% more crit and 30% more surge.

 

Of course it's not the optimal method for clearing all flashpoints and all planets from 15-50, but it now actually works. 3.0 has fully enabled the one button gaming.

 

That's retarded.

[TitusOfTides]

Hail of Bolts, Sweeping Blasters, Suppressive Fire, and Sweeping Gunfire also receive the exact same 15% Crit and 30% Surge boost - along with a 25% damage utility option available immediately. Now let's take a look at the skills themselves (courtesy of duly.net).

 

Forcequake: 6250 energy damage over 6s.

Force Storm: 6250 energy damage over 6s.

Sweeping Blasters: 6409 weapon damage over 3s.

Hail of Bolts: 2557 weapon damage over 3s.

Suppressive Fire: 6715 weapon damage over 4.5s

Sweeping Gunfire: 6424 weapon damage over 4.5s

 

Warriors and Knights do not appear to have similar abilities. Their AoEs are incomparable to others.

 

Sweeping Blasters is over half of the damage of Storm/Quake, for exactly half of the channel time. Upon further inspection, Hail of Bolts actually seems to be neglected here.

Suppressive Fire and Sweeping Gunfire are over 100% of the damage of Quake and Storm, but less than 100% of the channel time.

 

Mercenaries and Commandos have another AoE by default: Death From Above/Pulse Cannon.

Snipers/Slingers also have Orbital Strike and Flyby.

Sorc/Sages don't get another AoE unless they specifically spec for it. You have to realize that there are many other factors that go into a class other than just all having a 0s cooldown AoE. There is no problem with Force Storm or Forcequake. They are outmatched.

 

And on another note, anyone who believes that this game can truly be played with only AoEs is wrong.

Edited March 4, 2015 by TitusOfTides

[ViolentAngel]

Hail of Bolts, Sweeping Blasters, Suppressive Fire, and Sweeping Gunfire...

 

Funny you should mention those skills, because that's actually what we're talking about...

Edited March 5, 2015 by ViolentAngel

[mastervalkar]

Welcome to 3.0, where Full Retard now has 25% more damage, 15% more crit and 30% more surge.

 

Of course it's not the optimal method for clearing all flashpoints and all planets from 15-50, but it now actually works. 3.0 has fully enabled the one button gaming.

 

That's retarded.

 

There is no words for stupidity of this level....

[rheia]

Sweeping Blasters, suppresive fire and their mirror counterparts are not spammabe because of shorter channel time a energy cost stacking up, force storm is, outside of prolonged fights.

 

Healer sorc/sage uses storm on single target simply because its their highest hitting attack, there is nothing that comes close to that damage in the healer arsenal.

 

And force storm problem is not just its damage and slow component, which may be slightly overtuned, I am not arguing that. Its the cooldown that makes it crit every tick, AND the fact that it procs chain lightening.

[LordDaemon]

Welcome to 3.0, where Full Retard now has 25% more damage, 15% more crit and 30% more surge.

 

I am so using this as my signature

[Mariojediwookie]

Why all the complaints for using force storm as the main attack? Have you seen how weak the other attacks are? I understand this is supposed to be the healer class but my spec is damage. If my main objective is kill someone and that is my best attack.....you're saying you wouldn't use it because "it's too easy"? It's fun.....you know what isn't fun, having a spec for damage, having weak DPS and weak Heals at the same time. That would be unfun.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Maybe it's the constant lightning because so many people play Sorcs nowadays ?

[Llama-Eight]

Why all the complaints for using force storm as the main attack? Have you seen how weak the other attacks are? I understand this is supposed to be the healer class but my spec is damage. If my main objective is kill someone and that is my best attack.....you're saying you wouldn't use it because "it's too easy"? It's fun.....you know what isn't fun, having a spec for damage, having weak DPS and weak Heals at the same time. That would be unfun.

 

Because the devs have previously said that they don't think that an AoE should have a place in a single-target rotation (ie, their reasons for nerfing Freighter Flyby)?

[Happy_Puppy]

So I take it the OP then wants to double the single target dps of the Sorc/Cons then? Right now AOE is all they bring there are middle of the road when it comes to single target... MERCS/Troopers and Snipers/Gunslingers are about huge single target dps numbers.. even with that they still put up good aoe numbers. So if your going to take away force storm or nerf it to other class's AOE then you will need to buff the heck out of the single target dps of a Sorc/Cons.

 

You can not compare Mercs aoe vs Sorc's aoe unless you take into account single target dps. Sorcs are not top dogs in single target there rather avg while Mercs are near the top in singe target.

[krfsm]

Why all the complaints for using force storm as the main attack? Have you seen how weak the other attacks are? I understand this is supposed to be the healer class but my spec is damage. If my main objective is kill someone and that is my best attack.....you're saying you wouldn't use it because "it's too easy"? It's fun.....you know what isn't fun, having a spec for damage, having weak DPS and weak Heals at the same time. That would be unfun.

 

Except that sorc dps isn't weak and sorc heals isn't weak (for single target). Only sorc armor is weak, but that's what bubbles are for. (Madness is weak on single target, but lightning sure isn't.)

 

So I take it the OP then wants to double the single target dps of the Sorc/Cons then? Right now AOE is all they bring there are middle of the road when it comes to single target... MERCS/Troopers and Snipers/Gunslingers are about huge single target dps numbers.. even with that they still put up good aoe numbers. So if your going to take away force storm or nerf it to other class's AOE then you will need to buff the heck out of the single target dps of a Sorc/Cons.

 

You can not compare Mercs aoe vs Sorc's aoe unless you take into account single target dps. Sorcs are not top dogs in single target there rather avg while Mercs are near the top in singe target.

 

Oh, you can. Sure, IO and engineering parse a bit better, but lightning is pretty much next on the list. You're ahead of most specs in the game for single target, and you have infinitely spamable aoe like no other class.

 

Nerfing force storm and giving just a wee bit of love to the currently ignored force lightning would still leave all sorcs in a good position.

[Izisvi]

The ONLY aoe spammable attack that is used in single target situations is force storm and it's ONLY a single target gain if you're using it with recklessness.

 

I'm not saying that storm isn't OP, it certainly is... But the changes to it on PTS right now are quite balanced. The main reason storm is OP is a) no meaningful force cost and b) autocrit. The other spammable aoes are just fine because they have significant energy costs. You cannot use more than 2 consecutive suppressive fires without dropping below optimal energy regen.

 

IMO, most of the AOEs are just fine. Having the choice to do good aoe damage but tank your energy is one you have to consider carefully in actual fights. Example, Underlurker or torque. If your argument is that it makes trash clearing too easy.... Trash mobs are boring anyway. Faster they die the happier I am.