Swtor...from 60 fps....to 20-30 fps after 6mos. Why?

[NineFuries]

I bought a decent gaming PC 6 mos ago and one of the first games i tested it with was swtor which i was getting a near flawless 50-60 fps. I have just started playing again a few weeks ago and now my performance is lucky to average 30 fps and regularly drops into the teens...especially when any combat is involved. Now this isn't just with swtor I have noticed less performance on some other games as well but I really couldn't tell such a difference until I had been playing swtor.

 

I cannot think of anything that would cause this. I have mostly games on my HD and I don't download stuff all the time. One thing to note is that when I first bought this PC like a moron I forgot to add thermal paste to the cpu and I booted it up and was running some games when I noticed the performance was horrible. Couldn't figure it out at first then like an idiot I realized my mistake, added the paste and that fixed everything.

 

Only now nothing has changed that I am aware of but yet my performance has dropped considerably. Any help would be appreciated because this is so frustrating I almost want to quit gaming on pc. 20 fps is NOT acceptable on this rig.

 

My rig

 

i5 2500k

8g RAM

nvidia gtx 480

1TB HD

Win 7

Edited February 25, 2015 by NineFuries

[Ferrety]

Welcome to Patch 3.1!

 

Hopefully it'll be fixed soon.

[FalmeseReb]

3.0 expansion completely brutalized fps. It's like the devs just don't even care about optimization. 16m operations are now inaccessible for low end computers even on very low. My PC which I consider to be above average with a 3 GB gfx card and decent cpu struggles to do anything with over 4 players at 60 fps regardless of graphics settings.

[Heat-Wave]

An Intel i5-2500k would be fine to play the game... the video card is a little on the low side, what resolution are you playing at?

 

If you're playing on a single 1080p monitor, then it shouldn't be that slow.

 

There are many things you can do to clean the junk out of your computer, or perhaps it has been botted and is running something in the background you don't know about.

 

There are some guides online to clean up Windows, personally I suggest CCleaner as a good start, and of course make sure you're running antivirus software (Microsoft Security Essentials is free).

 

And if you don't have thermal paste, it is possible your CPU is throttling. You can check this in real time by using CPU-Z to watch the real time CPU clock speed while playing a game and stressing the computer, if you see drops to less than max speed, it may be a thermal throttle issue. This will also tell you your CPU temp in most cases.

[Heat-Wave]

3.0 expansion completely brutalized fps. It's like the devs just don't even care about optimization. 16m operations are now inaccessible for low end computers even on very low. My PC which I consider to be above average with a 3 GB gfx card and decent cpu struggles to do anything with over 4 players at 60 fps regardless of graphics settings.

 

It is possible to have good performance, but it seems very uneven as to who is getting it. Since the 3.0.2 patch, my performance has been decent. It still isn't back to where it was pre 3.0, but it has improved.

 

I can do 16m OPs with everything turned up without dropping below 45fps most of the time, and it is 60fps unless the screen is really busy (last boss of Ravagers for example)

[NineFuries]

Hey thanks for the suggestions HeatWave! My resolution is 1680x1050 lol.

 

Don't underestimate the gtx 480. On GPU boss it is ranked 6.4 and a gtx 960 is 7.1 overall.

 

I've been doing passmark tests on my PC and I'm guessing it really is a CPU issue now. Normal temperature is 69c when doing nothing. 94c very quickly after loading into swtor. This is bad right? The CPU is stock 3.30 no overclock as well.

 

If this is the case do I need to reapply the thermal paste or do i need a better fan or both?

Edited February 26, 2015 by NineFuries

[BrintoSFJ]

You can not actually measure the power of your PC with swtor. SWTOR doesn't have 64 bit or DX11 support. You will be able to play a lot of games that demand much more from your PC without hassle while SWTOR will still be sucky, i am speaking from experience here. There is really nothing wrong with your PC it is just SWTOR needs an engine upgrade.

[lintonlisa]

Actually... low end computers get better FPS!

 

I ahve 8gigs and a Geforce 760GTX 4gig... and it runs like crap since 3.0, 10 FPS in ops!

[Papazmurf]

I've been seeing a lot of threads like this. Heat-Wave has give some good suggestions. I think if more people thought "what can I do to improve performance" instead of "what can Bioware do to make their game play better on my system" we would be seeing less complaints.

 

The first test I would do to see if it's possibly your system or their game is play similar types of games (open world games like MMOs) and see if you get better performance with the same settings. That's an easy test.

 

If you're still having problems there's lot of sites than can help you optimize your settings. I'll take PM's if anyone needs any help. Just know responses may not be right away.

[BrintoSFJ]

I've been seeing a lot of threads like this. Heat-Wave has give some good suggestions. I think if more people thought "what can I do to improve performance" instead of "what can Bioware do to make their game play better on my system" we would be seeing less complaints.

 

The first test I would do to see if it's possibly your system or their game is play similar types of games (open world games like MMOs) and see if you get better performance with the same settings. That's an easy test.

 

If you're still having problems there's lot of sites than can help you optimize your settings. I'll take PM's if anyone needs any help. Just know responses may not be right away.

 

I am playing another mmorpg with high graphics settings, DX11 and 64 bit. Doing 20 man raids, running through capital city where it seems like there are at least 20 people on every inch of the place. never seen fps drop below 60. And before you say anything; their graphics detail is even better than swtor and have way too much customization option in character thus more variety from player to player.

It is not a matter of "what we can do", it never is for SWTOR, if you at least know what you are talking about then you should know that very well. 64 bit client and DX11 makes a huge difference in performance.

[Malastare]

Don't underestimate the gtx 480. On GPU boss it is ranked 6.4 and a gtx 960 is 7.1 overall.

 

Um... GPU boss scores can't really be used like that. The 480 is a fine GPU, but its not like you can say that the 960 is just 10% better. First: Because "better" is not a quantifiable characteristic. Second: Because you have no idea how those scores were generated. The framerates you'd expect from a 960 will often be 30-50% higher than what you'd expect of a 480. The 960 also handles higher resolutions better, has better texture processing, and has some extra processing tricks.

 

However, your first statement is still correct. The 480 (and 560 Ti and 650) is perfectly acceptable for SWTOR.

 

I've been doing passmark tests on my PC and I'm guessing it really is a CPU issue now. Normal temperature is 69c when doing nothing. 94c very quickly after loading into swtor. This is bad right? The CPU is stock 3.30 no overclock as well.

 

Yeah, you're cooking that CPU. At those temperatures you're doing small amounts of damage to the silicon and decreasing its life. My 2600k that was overclocked to 4.5GHz saw idle temps of 32-35C, and stress test temps of 65C. Normal temps while playing SWTOR were 50-57C.

 

At 70C, you're at the point where the CPU won't jump into TurboBoost mode because its too hot.. .and that's what you get at idle. At 94C, you're certainly into thermal throttling, and your CPU is forcefully slowing itself down in order to protect itself from completely overheating and damaging itself beyond use.

 

Ideally, you should see load temps between 45-70C, and you'll want to aim for no more than 65C in order to preserve your ability to use TurboBoost. Additionally, the 2500k (like my 2600k) overclocks like a champ, and you should be able to run it at 4.3GHz and still maintain those temperatures. It is actually very common for 2500k's to hit 4.6GHz and not exceed 60C with high end air cooling.

 

If this is the case do I need to reapply the thermal paste or do i need a better fan or both?

 

Your fan can't be bad enough to cause temps that high. You certainly need to look at thermal paste first. What paste were you using? Did you check out some videos on how to apply it?

Edited February 26, 2015 by Malastare

[Papazmurf]

I am playing another mmorpg with high graphics settings, DX11 and 64 bit. Doing 20 man raids, running through capital city where it seems like there are at least 20 people on every inch of the place. never seen fps drop below 60. And before you say anything; their graphics detail is even better than swtor and have way too much customization option in character thus more variety from player to player.

It is not a matter of "what we can do", it never is for SWTOR, if you at least know what you are talking about then you should know that very well. 64 bit client and DX11 makes a huge difference in performance.

 

I saw your post above about DX11 and 64 bit. That's all true, but it doesn't mean you still can't push performance on your end. If anything, your post infers that it is even more important to make sure things are tightly locked down to get the best performance out of this game. You'll see in my post that i mentioned the game test could only give you a *possibility* of if the issues are on your end or theirs. The reason I mentioned it is because for someone not tech savvy it's an easy test.

 

Also, you didn't mention if you specifically were having performance issues with SWTOR. Yeah, you might get lower performance than the other game you play that's optimized or newer, but does SWTOR play at acceptable standards to you? I play at 1440p and my FPS rarely drop below 60 while raiding and PVP and my whole system is older than his minus the video card which is only a generation older. If the game works fine for me with a 5 year old system, why can't it work for others? Customization is key and with a little help people can do this without upgrading hardware or waiting for fixes.

 

Some of these users may have a 32 bit OS or an older video card as well. DX11 and making the game run 64 bit isn't going to help those guys now is it? My solution offers a chance to help everyone without requiring game improvements and upgrading hardware.

 

I'm not wrong in my approach to this and it's realistic. You fix the things you can control first. It's beats relying on the developers to competently patch and update the game or on an engine upgrade that's likely never going to happen. That or people simply quit because they can't get SWTOR to play properly and we have less people to play with. Do you disagree with this?

Edited February 26, 2015 by Papazmurf

[lintonlisa]

Papazmurf you are an idiot.

 

There is no FPS change in the game from low settings to ultra settings... NONE!

 

Thats not my rig, thats the game.

[Malastare]

Papazmurf you are an idiot.

 

There is no FPS change in the game from low settings to ultra settings... NONE!

 

Thats not my rig, thats the game.

 

So explain why I do see an FPS change from low settings to ultra settings?

 

[ wait for ideas ]

 

So here's the answer: Because I've got a 4.5GHz Intel CPU running the game for me. In normal game situations, my CPU is not fully utliized, so the limiting factor on FPS is actually my GPU speed. I'm currently using a GTX 770, so even with high detail, I run with extra antialiasing enabled via driver profile, but the level I set that at determines what my FPS is. If I move to low quality models and turn off shadows, my FPS jumps noticeably, mostly by moving up the low end of the range (ie: 55-60fps instead of 45-60fps).

 

If you see the same FPS on low and high, it simply means that your limiting factor is CPU performance (or you're using vsync or some other driver-based limiter). While the game certainly plays some part in determining where that factor is for various sets of hardware, the fact that you are limited does come down to your hardware. Whether its worth spending the money to change that is up to you.

 

EDIT: The other possibility here is that you're running on very high end hardware and hoping to see FPS numbers that far exceed 60 fps. My understanding (through second-hand reports of testing) is that SWTOR's structure doesn't do a good job of supporting >60fps reliably, due to how client-server messaging is done. However, I generally don't have much sympathy for people who are whining about only seeing 80fps in games. If that's you... well, I guess you'll just have to deal with it.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Malastare

[Papazmurf]

Papazmurf you are an idiot.

 

There is no FPS change in the game from low settings to ultra settings... NONE!

 

Thats not my rig, thats the game.

 

So let me get this straight. You have a GTX760 with 4GB VRAM, 8GB total RAM (you should've mentioned CPU, as this a heavy CPU game, but eh) and you get horrible performance. I had an i7 950 @ 3.8 Ghz till last week, (currently use a Xeon 5660 at 4.4 Ghz), AMD HD6970 2GB VRAM, 24GB total, (SWTOR doesn't use more than 4-6 from what I've seen [actually from one of the posts above I would think it can't use more than 4 being a 32 bit client, but I'm not sure about that, clarification would be appreciated]) and I play at 1440p with 60 FPS in OPS and PVP and you want to call me the idiot?

 

You probably think I'm lying, but I've got no reason to. I came to this thread to help people, everyone just wants to throw blame elsewhere. To set the record straight, I'm not saying that blame on Bioware isn't warranted, but if you like the game there are likely things you can do on your end to get better performance.

 

I work with computers for a living, nothing is random and there is a reason for everything. You aren't going to get the Bioware Hero Engine to look at and see what tweaks you can make, so might as well work on your own. If you're fed up and don't want to get better performance because Bioware has shoddy development, you're well within your right and I wouldn't even say it was a bad reason.

 

I'm cool with being disagreed with, but I see no reason for name calling. If anything I'd like you to tell me what it was that I recommended is wrong so maybe I can get my ducks in an order. Judging from your little immature post, I doubt that, but I'd love to proven wrong. That's when you learn the most.

 

 

So explain why I do see an FPS change from low settings to ultra settings?

 

[ wait for ideas ]

 

So here's the answer: Because I've got a 4.5GHz Intel CPU running the game for me. In normal game situations, my CPU is not fully utliized, so the limiting factor on FPS is actually my GPU speed. I'm currently using a GTX 770, so even with high detail, I run with extra antialiasing enabled via driver profile, but the level I set that at determines what my FPS is. If I move to low quality models and turn off shadows, my FPS jumps noticeably, mostly by moving up the low end of the range (ie: 55-60fps instead of 45-60fps).

 

If you see the same FPS on low and high, it simply means that your limiting factor is CPU performance (or you're using vsync or some other driver-based limiter). While the game certainly plays some part in determining where that factor is for various sets of hardware, the fact that you are limited does come down to your hardware. Whether its worth spending the money to change that is up to you.

 

EDIT: The other possibility here is that you're running on very high end hardware and hoping to see FPS numbers that far exceed 60 fps. My understanding (through second-hand reports of testing) is that SWTOR's structure doesn't do a good job of supporting >60fps reliably, due to how client-server messaging is done. However, I generally don't have much sympathy for people who are whining about only seeing 80fps in games. If that's you... well, I guess you'll just have to deal with it.

 

Pretty much all of this. I'd add what kind of monitor you have and resolution and refresh rate is supports as will play factors. You're only going to get the FPS your monitor supports. This is more for the guy Malastare is quoting.

 

I tried not to get technical with my suggestions or involve making upgrades, because no one wants to hear they should upgrade their PC, especially if other games that are newer work fine. The thing is with older games, since they aren't coded with the latest technologies, sometimes you need more resources to push better results. Sometimes that doesn't even help, so you make system configuration changes to get the best out of what you have. If it still doesn't work after that you just have to accept the performance you are getting.

 

My whole issue with these threads is that the game performance can be great because people are playing with great performance on a variety of systems. Yeah I get that Bioware could do something to appease people and make their game run better, but since that likely isn't going to happen the next best option is to try and get more performance out of what you currently have.

 

I'm not going to make system guide here as everyone's situation is different. What I will do is help people on an individual basis as I've been doing for others and get you results if your hardware supports it.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Papazmurf

[Heat-Wave]

Hey thanks for the suggestions HeatWave! My resolution is 1680x1050 lol.

 

Don't underestimate the gtx 480. On GPU boss it is ranked 6.4 and a gtx 960 is 7.1 overall.

 

I've been doing passmark tests on my PC and I'm guessing it really is a CPU issue now. Normal temperature is 69c when doing nothing. 94c very quickly after loading into swtor. This is bad right? The CPU is stock 3.30 no overclock as well.

 

If this is the case do I need to reapply the thermal paste or do i need a better fan or both?

 

The GTX 960 isn't a rocket either, try a 970.

 

The 480 has 448 CUDA cores, which isn't bad, but isn't great either. The GTX 960 has 1024 CUDA cores, so the numbers you're providing (6.4 and 7.1) don't mean a whole lot. A GTX 960 should be between 2 and 3 times as fast as that 480 card, depending on what you're doing with it.

 

A GTX 970 card has 1664 CUDA cores, so it is about 60% faster in raw compute power than the 960. How much of that translates to the real world depends on what you're doing.

 

---

 

Regarding the CPU temp, that is way high... you say you're art 69C doing nothing... right now, doing nothing, my Intel i7 4770k is in the 30c range. I just loaded up SWTOR and loaded into Ilum (which is busy right now due to the Gree event), and just standing there looking at the ice shelf... My CPU is running in the 40c range with spikes to 42c.

 

I'm using TechPowerup's RealTemp program. My GPU temp is higher, using GPU-Z to read it, right now it is at 55c.

 

You might simply have a bad fan, or you might need more thermal paste, but it doesn't take much (less than most people think, and don't spread it, put a dot in the center and let it spread itself, or you'll get air gaps).

[Malastare]

You might simply have a bad fan, or you might need more thermal paste

 

The more common mistake is to use too much. Considering he originally mounted it and forgot the paste entirely, my first guess is that he made the mistake loads of novice builders make and added far too much.

 

On most Intel CPU's the amount of paste you're looking for is about the size of a lentil. Possibly a little more (say 25% more) if you're working with very viscous paste.

[LordBeeDoO]

I think many people here are missing the point of many threads like this.

 

The game changed with 3.0 and it depends strongly on individual setup what happened - Bioware pointed out there are serious UI issues - but this is months now.

 

There are computers where nothing happens - I got 2 ... new i7 4790 + Radeon 290 = very good performance no change since 3.0, old Amd quad core with radeon 3800 (7 years old with Windows VIsta) ... well bad performance but playable still and no change since 3.0.

 

But there are people, as I see especially with nVidia and laptop users who played on HIGH with 30 fps before 3.0 and since 3.0 they have below 10 fps even of LOW and so much lag in pvp and opses it is not even playable. For them ULTRA performance is same as VERY LOW - no change - turning off UI with Ctrl + U jumps fps to normal values but you cannot play like that. - This is serious issue as patch screwed the game completely for a fraction of players.

[Heat-Wave]

The more common mistake is to use too much. Considering he originally mounted it and forgot the paste entirely, my first guess is that he made the mistake loads of novice builders make and added far too much.

 

On most Intel CPU's the amount of paste you're looking for is about the size of a lentil. Possibly a little more (say 25% more) if you're working with very viscous paste.

 

^ This is good advice...

[Heat-Wave]

I think many people here are missing the point of many threads like this.

 

The game changed with 3.0 and it depends strongly on individual setup what happened - Bioware pointed out there are serious UI issues - but this is months now.

 

Yes, but clearly Bioware doesn't care, so harping about it won't change anything.

[Zoom_VI]

So I started watch my CPU temp on my i7 and its peaking in the 80c range while sitting on ilum. I brought up swtor's FPS counter which changes color based on whats limiting it, it was green which indicates GPU is limiting, so I set all graphics to minimum. I jumped from 33 fps to 81 fps before the FPS counter switched to red indicating limitation by CPU. The CPU core temp doesn't vary much at any time during my experimenting.

 

Unfortunately a lot of the typical heat fixes are out because I'm running on a latitude E6430 laptop so there isn't exactly much space for adding fans or opening up more air intake. And before anyone asks yes I keep it sitting on a laptop cooling pad.

 

At rest with no programs up it sits at ~45c

Edited February 26, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[Malastare]

I think many people here are missing the point of many threads like this.

 

No... the point of threads like this is that the game performs poorly on CPUs running just short of boiling water.

 

OP is facing thermal throttling. That's what killed his game performance, not 3.0 or 3.1 or anything else.

 

Feel free to bring up performance concerns like that in other threads, but the topic of this thread is pretty well established. The OPs problem is coming from his local hardware.

[Malastare]

So I started watch my CPU temp on my i7 and its peaking in the 80c range while sitting on ilum.

 

For a Dell laptop of that generation, that's not abnormal. It's high, of course, and would likely be uncomfortable, but it matches the experience I've seen with other similar laptops. Put quite plainly, the lattitude series was not engineered with the intent to cool both the CPU and GPU at the same time, and its going to reach a temperature equilibrium much higher than what you'd see on a desktop or gaming laptop.

 

A lot of the limitation comes simply from the volume of air available for cooling. Laptops like the Lattitudes don't take in nearly the volume that other gaming hardware does. You're correct in saying that your options are limited. There are only three main ways to cool it better: Let it bring in more air (difficult, other than keeping it clean), have it bring in colder air (easier said than done), or apply conductive cooling to the case via a cooling pad (which you've already done). At the moment, you've done pretty much all you can.

 

The good news is that since you can see that the GPU is your FPS limiter, you're not really affected by CPU temperature (other than having it warm your lap). So... it runs hot, but not really hot enough to cause damage and it doesn't impact your game performance.

 

Looks fine.

 

At rest with no programs up it sits at ~45c

 

That's pretty normal, too. It's not impressive. but lots of laptops run hot and unless you're using one of Dell's gaming lines (ie: Alienware), then your cooling solution isn't tuned to generate very low CPU temperatures. The engineers probably see 45C as a perfectly reasonable running temperature.

 

The CPU you're working with is one of the Ivy Bridge CPUs and that is a generation that was pretty well respected for good thermal behavior (unlike the first generation Core CPUs which were known for being paired with chipsets that failed under high temperatures).

Edited February 26, 2015 by Malastare

[Zoom_VI]

What has me concerned is that its running that hot sitting on ilum. I do a lot of PvP and am concerned as to how hot it runs in warzones, which ill test tonight.

 

At the very least I'm going to make sure the next laptop I buy doesn't vent all its heat out the left side, since I can keep coffee hot just be setting it to the left of my laptop while playing swtor.

[Joesixxpack]

What has me concerned is that its running that hot sitting on ilum. I do a lot of PvP and am concerned as to how hot it runs in warzones, which ill test tonight.

 

At the very least I'm going to make sure the next laptop I buy doesn't vent all its heat out the left side, since I can keep coffee hot just be setting it to the left of my laptop while playing swtor.

 

Don't get another laptop man. Build one of these.