12 x XP for class-missions

[Edzew]

Class quests account for 8.3% of leveling content. This is not KOTOR3. This is an MMO. MMOs are designed as leveling time-sinks. This has been the norm for close to 2 decades now.

 

People are still free to level through other-than-side-quest Xp producing events.

 

even with 12x XP and only doing class quests there are plenty of time sinks in game. there are still travel times, crafting times, not to mention if they decide to do some of the planetary heroics and flashpoints.

 

it all boils down to the fact that Bioware should have put more time into class story quests instead of having such a small amount of class story quests and such a huge amount of repeatable fluff quests.

 

I know this is a MMO but dose Bioware know?? i haven't played an MMO that forces you to do the same exact quests over and over for each toon just to level up to max level. all other MMOs that i have played i had plenty of options to choose from so every toon was a different experience. This game is more like KOTOR 3 than it is a true MMO it is very linear and one path driven, at least with 12x XP you will fill more like you are doing a quest line made just for your character.

[Edzew]

Those mass-produced "good players" are already here. It isn't going to mass-produce them because they already have a large stable of alt toons at max level. Sure, they might level up more characters but that doesnt negate the fact that that human was already represented in the game.

 

12XP will draw more players, sure. Some will be good. Others, as clearly demonstrated last time will be transient and only concerned about their story/leveling process. If the story is really the draw, then these people will depart after they have achieved their leveling goals ... just like they did in the two month event last year.

 

Are you really saying that it took you from December 13th 2011 until the 12XP event which began in October 2014 to finish your first toon; because of side quests ... that you couldn't have been repeating because it was your first toon?

 

 

heh you just admitted we would get more good players and who says they would leave?? maybe they would say and continue to make alts and some might even give the end game stuff a try. you never know what will happen. how do you know those people that left after the 12x XP wouldn't have stayed if the 12x XP would have stayed??

 

yes it took me that long to level up my two main toons (one light side one dark side) up to level 55. i also have one of each class at level 30. i would get bored with one class due to the fluff quests and move to another until i got bored with the fluff quests on that one. so yes the fluff quests kept me from fully leveling any of my toons.

[ekwalizer]

even with 12x XP and only doing class quests there are plenty of time sinks in game. there are still travel times, crafting times, not to mention if they decide to do some of the planetary heroics and flashpoints.

 

it all boils down to the fact that Bioware should have put more time into class story quests instead of having such a small amount of class story quests and such a huge amount of repeatable fluff quests.

 

I know this is a MMO but dose Bioware know?? i haven't played an MMO that forces you to do the same exact quests over and over for each toon just to level up to max level. all other MMOs that i have played i had plenty of options to choose from so every toon was a different experience. This game is more like KOTOR 3 than it is a true MMO it is very linear and one path driven, at least with 12x XP you will fill more like you are doing a quest line made just for your character.

 

I seem to recall doing a lot of the same quests in WoW across different classes. I definitely recall in the SWG-NGE doing the exact same quests regardless of class to level up.

 

You are ignoring all of the available leveling mechanics in this game and to be perfectly honest; if you only have 2 max level toons after 3 years I'm going to go ahead and say that you are by no means an expert on how to level up in this game. I'm not trying to be rude, but your inexperience in the leveling options of this game doesn't help the case you are making.

 

After level 10, you can level up fully via PvP.

After level 15, you can level up fully via KDY.

 

Or you can do a combination of those two and the daily flashpoints available. That is pretty darn fast leveling between 15~30. Sure it slows down after level 30, but there is not one single game in existence that can keep up with new content at the same rate that players can chew through it.

 

Now, if you are running the planets and your story, constantly queued for PvP, GSF and PvE you will quickly find yourself well ahead of the XP curve of leveling and skipping a lot of those pesky side quests.

 

If your first toon is Imperial, every quest in the game is new to you. If your second toon is Republic, all those quests are new to you too.

 

Edit: Now if you'll excuse me, I have 2XP leveling to do.

Edited April 16, 2015 by ekwalizer

[EllieAnne]

 

You are ignoring all of the available leveling mechanics in this game and to be perfectly honest; if you only have 2 max level toons after 3 years I'm going to go ahead and say that you are by no means an expert on how to level up in this game. I'm not trying to be rude, but your inexperience in the leveling options of this game doesn't help the case you are making.

 

After level 10, you can level up fully via PvP.

After level 15, you can level up fully via KDY.

So if we don't want to grind side quests then grind something else?

[EllieAnne]

I seem to recall doing a lot of the same quests in WoW across different classes. I definitely recall in the SWG-NGE doing the exact same quests regardless of class to level up.

 

That is true BUT those MMOs are not marketed to never-played-MMO, want-to-experience-SW-stories, not-a-hard-core-gamer clientele

[ekwalizer]

That is true BUT those MMOs are not marketed to never-played-MMO, want-to-experience-SW-stories, not-a-hard-core-gamer clientele

 

Are you being serious right now? World of Warcraft was the most heavily marketed game in the history of games - specifically to draw in never-played-MMO people. Yeah, I guess no one that played SWG was there for the Star Wars experience

[Djiini]

Are you being serious right now? World of Warcraft was the most heavily marketed game in the history of games - specifically to draw in never-played-MMO people. Yeah, I guess no one that played SWG was there for the Star Wars experience

 

Comparing WoW, SWG and TOR to each other is like comparing an apple to a fully made pizza to a buffet table.

[ekwalizer]

Comparing WoW, SWG and TOR to each other is like comparing an apple to a fully made pizza to a buffet table.

 

I'm only comparing them in the sense that they all require the same side quests to be repeated.

[Djiini]

I'm only comparing them in the sense that they all require the same side quests to be repeated.

 

Right, and in those games that's what it's all about.

TOR's selling point is the story.

[Edzew]

I seem to recall doing a lot of the same quests in WoW across different classes. I definitely recall in the SWG-NGE doing the exact same quests regardless of class to level up.

 

You are ignoring all of the available leveling mechanics in this game and to be perfectly honest; if you only have 2 max level toons after 3 years I'm going to go ahead and say that you are by no means an expert on how to level up in this game. I'm not trying to be rude, but your inexperience in the leveling options of this game doesn't help the case you are making.

 

After level 10, you can level up fully via PvP.

After level 15, you can level up fully via KDY.

 

Or you can do a combination of those two and the daily flashpoints available. That is pretty darn fast leveling between 15~30. Sure it slows down after level 30, but there is not one single game in existence that can keep up with new content at the same rate that players can chew through it.

 

Now, if you are running the planets and your story, constantly queued for PvP, GSF and PvE you will quickly find yourself well ahead of the XP curve of leveling and skipping a lot of those pesky side quests.

 

If your first toon is Imperial, every quest in the game is new to you. If your second toon is Republic, all those quests are new to you too.

 

Edit: Now if you'll excuse me, I have 2XP leveling to do.

 

 

i leveled up 2 hunters on the same server up to max level, the only quests that i repeated were the ones for certain pets that you could only get form those quests, and quests to get into certain areas. other than that i had a plethora of quests to choose from to level up. in SWG you mostly leveled from taking missions form the mission terminals, yea they were all go out and get this and bring it back but it was always different things depending on what hide was good that day/week/month. not to mention you had FULL planets to wander around on and go anywhere on. Lineage II you had your normal starting quests but once you hit like level 10 you were sent out on your own and you found quests out in the world where ever you went.

 

sure you can do PVP after level 10 but everyone knows PVP sucks in this game, KDY is just repeating the same thing over and over again so again its just repetitive junk and is no fun. GSF is a joke as well its a crappy rip off of Star Conflict.

 

of coarse all the planetary quests are brand new to you the first time... but that's my point they are BORING and pointless and there are SOOOOO many in between your class story quests.

 

I'm only comparing them in the sense that they all require the same side quests to be repeated.

 

not true only quests that you were required to repeat were the starting area quests. once you moved on from the starting area you were free to roam and do other quests how ever you chose. also in SWG you didn't really have quests you mostly had mission terminals that's how you leveled unless you wanted to unlock Jedi then you had to do the trials.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Edzew

[bluesoldier]

This is my issue, I hate leveling, call me lazy or what have you I dont care. I hate leveling it takes time I dont have from RL. I have all max level imps on Jung Ma, BUT I've recently started playing pub side more and only have 2 Pub toons. Furthermore I'd love to level toons on another server or even two, BUT my time constraints are such that even leveling the couple more pubs I want is unrealistic. That's why I want to have an opton to level faster. It doesn't necessarily need to be 12xp BUT something where I can level toons rather quickly would really help me out. I'd rather play end game than the middle ground. I'd love to enjoy playing through a storyline while doing it. So far I have yet to actually finish either of my pubs story lines Because they were both leveled through KDY on double xp weekends. Also I could give a rats *** about the piddly side quests **** that ****. Edited April 16, 2015 by bluesoldier

[ekwalizer]

Right, and in those games that's what it's all about.

TOR's selling point is the story.

 

That hasn't been the case since December 2011.

[ekwalizer]

i leveled up 2 hunters on the same server up to max level, the only quests that i repeated were the ones for certain pets that you could only get form those quests, and quests to get into certain areas. other than that i had a plethora of quests to choose from to level up. in SWG you mostly leveled from taking missions form the mission terminals, yea they were all go out and get this and bring it back but it was always different things depending on what hide was good that day/week/month. not to mention you had FULL planets to wander around on and go anywhere on. Lineage II you had your normal starting quests but once you hit like level 10 you were sent out on your own and you found quests out in the world where ever you went.

 

sure you can do PVP after level 10 but everyone knows PVP sucks in this game, KDY is just repeating the same thing over and over again so again its just repetitive junk and is no fun. GSF is a joke as well its a crappy rip off of Star Conflict.

 

of coarse all the planetary quests are brand new to you the first time... but that's my point they are BORING and pointless and there are SOOOOO many in between your class story quests.

 

not true only quests that you were required to repeat were the starting area quests. once you moved on from the starting area you were free to roam and do other quests how ever you chose. also in SWG you didn't really have quests you mostly had mission terminals that's how you leveled unless you wanted to unlock Jedi then you had to do the trials.

 

I'm pretty sure that I said SWG-NGE. Regardless, the NGE lasted more than 3 times as long as launch-end of the CU. So for 75% of SWGs life, the original leveling method was not available. The NGE brought with it a themepark story line from start to level cap.

 

I'll grant you that the leveling process in this game is boring - but that included the class missions if you have seen them before.

[Edzew]

I'm pretty sure that I said SWG-NGE. Regardless, the NGE lasted more than 3 times as long as launch-end of the CU. So for 75% of SWGs life, the original leveling method was not available. The NGE brought with it a themepark story line from start to level cap.

 

I'll grant you that the leveling process in this game is boring - but that included the class missions if you have seen them before.

 

my bad you did say SWG:NGE to be honest i dont know how the leveling/questing was in NGE because i was already max level when it hit..... but since you brought up the NGE it was pretty much dead during most of its life, within a year of it hitting actually. i went back about a year after it hit and you could spend an hour on one of the more popular planets and never see anyone!! slowly but surely the servers became empty, this game right now kinda reminds me of SWG right after the NGE hit.... lets hope this game dose not follow the same path!

 

the class stories are not as boring as the planetary ones. there is actually stories that impact your game and involve you unlike the fluff ones. though i do agree they fall off around level 30 on a lot of them but they are still better than that fluff crap!

[EyesOfRed]

That hasn't been the case since December 2011.

 

What is your basis for saying this? out of curiousity.

 

What do you think this games main draw is? end game? pvp?

 

Not trying to be smart, just want your opinion and why.

[ekwalizer]

What is your basis for saying this? out of curiousity.

 

What do you think this games main draw is? end game? pvp?

 

Not trying to be smart, just want your opinion and why.

 

The draw to this game is that it is star wars, and that is pretty much it - at least for me. The PvP is fun, but certainly not ground breaking. GSF is an abysmal failure compared to what it could have been (JTL from SWG). PvE isn't that spectacular either.

 

I am of the opinion that Bioware took a big gamble with the full voice acting in the release version. But the overwhelming majority of the gaming community just isn't into that. Sure it was quaint the first few hours of the first play through but how many space-bars have fallen on the alter of this game? I'm personally on my 3rd keyboard since release. All the way back in early access people complained if you didn't spam your space-bar during all conversations, unless it was unseen content for most of the group. I'm not saying that is concrete proof, but it is certainly an indicator.

 

If the story was the main draw, wouldn't there be more people playing the game; enjoying the story? Not just their class story but the story of each planet and all the side quests? Trying to put the bigger picture together?

 

I certainly agree that repeating the same tired old side quests is boring. But we have many more options to gain xp today than we had at launch. When I level a new toon, I plan it out so I can skip entire planets, like Alderaan and Belsavis. I rarely do every side quest on every planet, the only ones that really come to mind are Tattooine and Hoth, because I really enjoy those planets. I only ever do my one class mission on Quesh because I find the entire planet to be a waste of time.

 

Circling back to the story, I'd be willing to wager that most players do not know what the full story of the game is, and how the class story behind each of their toons helps complete an eight piece puzzle. I used to ask people all the time (back when 50 was the level cap) at the end of HM Black Talon if they understood what happened. Very few knew what was actually going on and why the information that General had was of vital importance to the Empire.

[ekwalizer]

So if we don't want to grind side quests then grind something else?

 

Yeah, that is kind of the MMO model in perpetuity. Is it a perfect model in 2015? Probably not, but what are the alternatives? Pay-to-win via a cash shop that sells an XP consumable that boosts gains by 12? Where does that end? There are people in this very thread that say triple XP isn't enough. How long before 12XP isn't enough?

 

This game, like many others, has a linear leveling path. It is a theme-park game, it was advertised as a theme-park game. Theme-parks take your hand at level 1 and walk you through the content until max level. First Person Shooters, on the other hand, basically make you max level from the start. Each has an audience and each works because that is how they are designed to work. MMORPGs are not designed for instant, or even near-instant, gratification.

 

Grinding is synonymous with MMORPGs. I'm truly baffled by the confusion on many people's part over this. It's like going to McDonald's and ordering a Whopper. Is McDonald's wrong for not offering the Whopper, or is the customer wrong for wanting something that belongs somewhere else?

 

My aversion to 12XP is that 12 is too much for a permanent feature. I'm all for it for promotional reasons and kind of figured they would do that before 3.2 rather than this 2X week event. As a player with 23 max level toons and counting (currently working on 4 toons on EU servers), I completely sympathize with the boring side quests issue. But I feel that class story only leveling is a bridge too far.

 

Remember, once something is in a game, it is very hard to get rid of it - should it turn out to be a bad idea. That is why I believe that an incremental approach to addressing XP is a more responsible course.

[EyesOfRed]

My aversion to 12XP is that 12 is too much for a permanent feature.

 

I generally agree with you on all these points. No joke, and I've mentioned before I like your tiered XP idea, and that 12 xp is pretty crazy fast. I would imagine that if put in, you could expect to pay every bit of 60 bucks per toon.

 

The only real point I can see where you and I differ is in how detrimental easy moding this game would be for it overall.

I personally think it wont have the negative impact some others do for 1 main reason.

 

the MMO crowd seldom focuses on the levelling portion of their game (devs and players). for them the game doesn't even begin until level cap, we've all heard that before. This is how other games justify letting you buy your way past that hurdle and get straight into "the real game". This serves a similar function to server merges, in that it shoves more people into a single bracket, increasing player pools. These players generally know how to play, and for them levelling is an unnecessary chore

 

The other side of that, is the SPRPGers, who are more likely to roll alt after alt, being somewhat OCD with their exploration of alignments and romance arcs, what have you. They definitely dont benefit from dragging that process out any longer than is necessary, you seldom see 'grinding' in any sort of offline, SP game. While they're not likely to be min/maxing or stressing over their rotation while levelling through tattoooine, they're also more likely to play solo and thus not really interfere with you too much.

 

All in all, we agree more than you probably realize. But I dont think that accelerated levelling will be the nail in the coffin that some others may. I can take it or leave it honestly, but if we can find a way to cater to both types of player, I think that'd be good.

 

and frankly, if it comes down to playtime and/or legacy as the determining factor, or it just being bought with real human currency, I think I know which route they'll take. But this is PURELY speculation on my part.

 

 

Happy Friday everyone

hit that double exp!

Edited April 17, 2015 by EyesOfRed

[EnkiduNineEight]

They have the right to *want* 12XP. The do not have the right to *have* 12XP.

 

and to further this... If their opinions go un-opposed it creates a false impression to the casual reader or even the devs that this would be a welcome/smooth addition to the game.

 

And so with 'ideas' it is often the responsibility of those with opposing views to make them known as silence might give the false impression of consent.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Class quests account for 8.3% of leveling content. This is not KOTOR3. This is an MMO. MMOs are designed as leveling time-sinks. This has been the norm for close to 2 decades now.

 

People are still free to level through other-than-side-quest Xp producing events.

 

And in the case of SWTOR the leveling 'grind'/timesink is _significantly_ smaller than the prior generation of MMO's. To 'cap' on ESO takes significantly longer and requires some grinding.

 

Outside of f2p players, if you have a subscription on SWTOR your leveling is very fast/easy and there is really never a point in which you have to stop and sit at a spawn point and kill the same mobs repeatedly to advance.

 

SWTOR is already MMO-lite.

[TravelersWay]

The draw to this game is that it is star wars, and that is pretty much it - at least for me. The PvP is fun, but certainly not ground breaking. GSF is an abysmal failure compared to what it could have been (JTL from SWG). PvE isn't that spectacular either.

 

I am of the opinion that Bioware took a big gamble with the full voice acting in the release version. But the overwhelming majority of the gaming community just isn't into that. Sure it was quaint the first few hours of the first play through but how many space-bars have fallen on the alter of this game? I'm personally on my 3rd keyboard since release. All the way back in early access people complained if you didn't spam your space-bar during all conversations, unless it was unseen content for most of the group. I'm not saying that is concrete proof, but it is certainly an indicator.

 

If the story was the main draw, wouldn't there be more people playing the game; enjoying the story? Not just their class story but the story of each planet and all the side quests? Trying to put the bigger picture together?

 

I certainly agree that repeating the same tired old side quests is boring. But we have many more options to gain xp today than we had at launch. When I level a new toon, I plan it out so I can skip entire planets, like Alderaan and Belsavis. I rarely do every side quest on every planet, the only ones that really come to mind are Tattooine and Hoth, because I really enjoy those planets. I only ever do my one class mission on Quesh because I find the entire planet to be a waste of time.

 

Circling back to the story, I'd be willing to wager that most players do not know what the full story of the game is, and how the class story behind each of their toons helps complete an eight piece puzzle. I used to ask people all the time (back when 50 was the level cap) at the end of HM Black Talon if they understood what happened. Very few knew what was actually going on and why the information that General had was of vital importance to the Empire.

 

All that really shows is that gamers, as is usually the case, try to force a game's design to fit their desired playstyle instead of the correct way of adjusting their method of playing to the intent and way the game is designed. Same thing happened with GW1 and even more so with GW2.

 

You can just look at this thread and see it is rife with people who obviously do not enjoy playing MMOs because the design does not fit the way they play games. So instead of adjusting themselves to play the game the way it was intended, or going to play games that are more befitting their playstyle, they come here to complain and demand the game to be changed to suit them and to hell with everyone else who actually enjoys the game for what it is and how it was designed. Narcissism and lack of common sense at its finest.

Edited April 17, 2015 by TravelersWay

[Ruskaeth]

So instead of adjusting themselves to play the game the way it was intended, or going to play games that are more befitting their playstyle, they come here to complain and demand the game to be changed to suit them and to hell with everyone else who actually enjoys the game for what it is and how it was designed. Narcissism and lack of common sense at its finest.

People have asked for a perk. Something not forced to people. This would mean that people who do enjoy those side quests for the umpteenth time could still do those and not level too fast. This is giving players a choice, not "hell with everyone else". Amazing that you actually mention "lack of common sense". Now all you have to do is muster your common sense and find humour in it.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Ruskaeth

[EllieAnne]

The draw to this game is that it is star wars, and that is pretty much it .

Truest thing you've said.

 

My aversion to 12XP is that 12 is too much for a permanent feature. I'm all for it for promotional reasons and kind of figured they would do that before 3.2 rather than this 2X week event.

So how would you, Ratatroll, and all the other anti-12ers feel about:

3xXP per mirrored class being level 60. (12xXP maximum)

Optional (legacy perk for account)

One weekend a month for people to dedicate to leveling alts.

[EyesOfRed]

Travelers, its about inclusion vs exclusion. You can appeal to a wider audience, or a smaller one.

 

It kind of is that simple.

 

again, no one wants to force you to play any particular way. boosts are being tossed around (rumored etc.) just as much as inhibitors. Difficulty settings go in both directions. Only endgame content needs to really remain static for everyone. For competitive / balance reasons.

Edited April 17, 2015 by EyesOfRed

[ekwalizer]

Truest thing you've said.

 

 

So how would you, Ratatroll, and all the other anti-12ers feel about:

3xXP per mirrored class being level 60. (12xXP maximum)

Optional (legacy perk for account)

One weekend a month for people to dedicate to leveling alts.

 

Uhm, I can do basic math. 3xXP per mirrored class comes out to 12XP after 4 unique stories. I'm sorry, 12X it too much. I would benefit immediately by your plan, by the way, on every North American server.

 

I have already pointed out, many times, to the point that it is captured in my signature that 12XP is unrealistic and just too much.

 

If all you have to do is ~65 quests to get to level 50 and then another handful to level 60 - you might as well just let people buy level 60 tokens and be done with the charade. On average, class missions take about 5 minutes each; chapter quests take 20-30 minutes but there are only 3 of them. So what you are asking for is tantamount to 415 minutes (less than 7 hours) of leveling to get to level 50. Even if you factor in 3 hours (which is absurdly high) for traveling to your objectives over the course of those 50 levels - that is only 10 hours of game time.

 

If that is your goal, it is already available to you. You can level 1-55 in 9 hours with a level 55-60 friend running along side you.