12 x XP for class-missions

[TUXs]

Do you? Can you provide a link with data under a year old to support your "belief" or claims?

What exactly is my belief or claim? I was simply refuting 2-yr old data used as "evidence" that the game is doing well.

How about this one:

 

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2014/10/swtor-revenues-climb-over-100-million-for-2014.html

 

Your turn.

My turn?! I was simply pointing out that your "source" was using 2013 data. And that link paints a scarier picture than I imagined...12th placed MMO? Are you excited about that? I'm certainly not...that sucks. We're below games I've never even heard of before...last I knew we were 4th...to slip to 12th sucks.

[EyesOfRed]

The genre moves in step with itself. 10 years from launch means absolutely nothing. All MMOS have a habit of stealing from one another. WoW didn't follow EQ's exact model. anymore than current games that flood into F2P didn't wait years and years as wow did to go free. Anymore than those same games implement the harsh limits WoWs free to play does.

 

Every game isn't going to age at the same speed. Genres / Industries advance together. Logical fallacies abound.

 

as for the 3.2 pts datamine, and the renaming of Boosts and inhibitors... I believe Djini already 'googled that for you'

 

haha, i love that site.

Edited April 14, 2015 by EyesOfRed

[Ratajack]

What exactly is my belief or claim? I was simply refuting 2-yr old data used as "evidence" that the game is doing well.

 

Allow me to quote you:

 

That is exactly the point I was going to make, the CM negated the need for 500k...which I also believe we're well under at this point.

 

That seems to me like you're stating a belief.

 

My turn?! I was simply pointing out that your "source" was using 2013 data. And that link paints a scarier picture than I imagined...12th placed MMO? Are you excited about that? I'm certainly not...that sucks. We're below games I've never even heard of before...last I knew we were 4th...to slip to 12th sucks.

 

I provided a source from within the last year to back up my belief. Again, your turn to do the same. Provide a source from within the last year to support your belief that this game is well under 500K subs.

[TUXs]

Allow me to quote you:

 

That seems to me like you're stating a belief.

 

I provided a source from within the last year to back up my belief. Again, your turn to do the same. Provide a source from within the last year to support your belief that this game is well under 500K subs.

Back in 2013 it was under 500k Rat...are you even paying attention?!

[Dokar]

Allow me to quote you:

 

 

 

That seems to me like you're stating a belief.

 

 

 

I provided a source from within the last year to back up my belief. Again, your turn to do the same. Provide a source from within the last year to support your belief that this game is well under 500K subs.

 

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2014/01/swtors-cartel-market-rakes-in-139-million-dollars-in-2013.html

 

Combined with your quote of gross revenue for 2013 of 165 million leaves only 26 million for sub revenue. That is 167,000 or fewer subs on average for 2013.

[Ratajack]

Back in 2013 it was under 500k Rat...are you even paying attention?!

 

First, your claim was that this game was WELL UNDER 500K subscribers. The link provided by Ekwalizer said JUST A BIT under 500k. That's a far cry from WELL UNDER, wouldn't you say?

 

Second, you dismissed that link when Ekwalizer posted it for being from over a year ago and then you want to use ti support YOUR claim? Talk about double standards.

 

Now, how about providing a source FROM WITHIN THE LAST YEAR, which was your demand for proof from us, to back up your claim that this game is currently WELL UNDER 500K subscribers.

[Ratajack]

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2014/01/swtors-cartel-market-rakes-in-139-million-dollars-in-2013.html

 

Combined with your quote of gross revenue for 2013 of 165 million leaves only 26 million for sub revenue. That is 167,000 or fewer subs on average for 2013.

 

 

That link states that the 139 million was an ADDITIONAL 139 miilion.

 

"Similarly, Star Wars: The Old Republic earned $139 million in additional revenues..."

 

Could that 139 million be part of the 165 million? Certainly, but the link you provided lists microtransactions only so it may not be. Let's assume for the moment that it is. That does not tell us what the subscriber number is now, or even within the last year (which was TUX's criteria for proof).

[TUXs]

First, your claim was that this game was WELL UNDER 500K subscribers. The link provided by Ekwalizer said JUST A BIT under 500k. That's a far cry from WELL UNDER, wouldn't you say?

 

Second, you dismissed that link when Ekwalizer posted it for being from over a year ago and then you want to use ti support YOUR claim? Talk about double standards.

 

Now, how about providing a source FROM WITHIN THE LAST YEAR, which was your demand for proof from us, to back up your claim that this game is currently WELL UNDER 500K subscribers.

I dismissed his post because it wasn't adding up Rat. It wasn't from 2014 as it appeared, it was at least a year older than that.

 

And as I explained earlier, I have no source if Bioware/EA doesn't release the figures, but my best guess is that we have somewhere between 200-150k subs at best these days.

[EyesOfRed]

"We have, no valid argument.... lets make this an arbitrary discussion about past and current subscribers!"

 

you're not even making logical hypotheses about the potential change in subscribers this change could bring. You're literally arguing, how many subs there are now, and how many is necessary to be sustainable and who knows what really.

 

What is the debate right now? is this thread called "There are less than 500k subs so this game will now fail"?

Outside of a barely relevant snippet, to say that game isn't as successful as some might like it be, this argument is pretty askew to the context of the OP.

 

But, whatever. losing argument, change argument to something else. seems legit. Keep moving them goal posts.

 

would your argument, if proven correct, lead to this logical conclusion?

SEE THEY DO HAVE 500k SUBS AND THATS WHY WE DONT NEED NO STINKING 12 XP!!!

 

nope.

 

let the thread die, or stay on topic.

Edited April 14, 2015 by EyesOfRed

[ekwalizer]

I dismissed his post because it wasn't adding up Rat. It wasn't from 2014 as it appeared, it was at least a year older than that.

 

And as I explained earlier, I have no source if Bioware/EA doesn't release the figures, but my best guess is that we have somewhere between 200-150k subs at best these days.

 

They were referring to November 2012:

 

"EA announced that the MMO would adopt a free-to-play model by 2012, with the transition taking place in November of that year. Since then, EA's Frank Gibeau said the game has grown significantly.

 

"Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service," Gibeau said at the time. "And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million."

 

Details, sometimes we get lost in them.

 

OK, fair enough, stabilized at just under half a million. But again, the CM bolsters the reduction in total subs.

 

You seem to have misread the article. The article was written in August 2014, not August 2013. You asked for something from within the last 12 months.

[ekwalizer]

let the thread die, or stay on topic.

 

If you don't like that this thread has been off topic for about a page, report it. Won't hurt my feelings.

[EyesOfRed]

would your argument, if proven correct, lead to this logical conclusion?

SEE THEY DO HAVE 500k SUBS AND THATS WHY WE DONT NEED NO STINKING 12 XP!!!

 

I like that you again skipped the relevant part of my post to try and be edgy.

 

Cool bro.

[ekwalizer]

I like that you again skipped the relevant part of my post to try and be edgy.

 

Cool bro.

 

Wasn't aware that that was directed at me.

[ekwalizer]

And no.

 

As I have pointed out, like a dozen times; I personally think that 12XP is too much. I would be more than happy to compromise at a more reasonable figure.

 

My stance has nothing to do with subscriptions. Whether you like it or not, you OPINION does not invalidate my OPINION and so on and so forth.

Edited April 14, 2015 by ekwalizer

[EyesOfRed]

Agreed, opinions are opinions. not facts.

 

And I agree that 12x is much faster than necessary, but I also don't think that it would negatively effect the game either. To my understand, it still only applied to the quest turn in XP for class missions. not kills / FPs / OPs / PVP / exploration etc. And is STILL a much tamer version of similar services provided by other games (that i could list, or anyone else could google...)

 

Discussing opinions is fun, but not very productive towards a real discussion. Would make more sense to discuss possible implementations and possible consequences, and site reasons. Past events, professional opinions, logical chains of events.

 

I've sited how it works in many similar games. I've linked interviews with industry professionals refuting some of the exact fears listed in this thread. I've offered up some of my own opinions, perhaps I should not have. I'm all for having an intelligent back and forth on the ramifications of a system like this. Seems to be really hard to have on the interwebs though.

 

[insert sarcastic remark, and/or personal insult]

Edited April 14, 2015 by EyesOfRed

[twinkiefatsack]

I have played this game on and off since the Beta. I still don't have a max level character. My highest is level 40, which I just hit last night ( 4/13/15 ) I have subbed for a month at a time, got bored, stopped playing, played f2p, subbed, stopped playing ect. My play style is very weird. I hate leveling, questing, dailies, ect. I am lazy. I enjoy max level stuff. I thoroughly enjoyed the 12x xp even though I unfortunately did not take full advantage. I could have easily leveled a lot of characters to max, but with WoWs expansion out around the same time the xp bonus was active, I had to chose the game that I played more. I know this is a story based game, and there are times when I am playing that sure, I enjoy to listen to a cut scene or 2 and dont just spam space bar. I personally am all for getting to max level whatever way is the fasted. Some people enjoy taking in the LORE of the games, some people cant stand it. I dont see an issue if they implement 12xXP or something similar. I do think they should make it a toggle or something along those lines. You can turn off XP in WoW so I dont see why this should be any different.

 

 

People compare MMOs to WoW because weather you like it or not, they set the bar for what games should be. The game came out at the fight time and sure some features should have been there from the start, but they've seemed to do a good job.

 

I don't want to say this game failed, but I do firmly believe that it did not live up to the hype. I think this game could have been so much better if simple quality of life features were out when the game first launched. Granted WoW didnt have a lot of the stuff it did at launch, but any game that was put out after WoW should have seen and known that those features are what can make or break a game incredibly quickly. Its a little late now for this game to ever become any bigger, but I do believe there is still a fan base for this game.

[Ratajack]

I dismissed his post because it wasn't adding up Rat. It wasn't from 2014 as it appeared, it was at least a year older than that.

 

And as I explained earlier, I have no source if Bioware/EA doesn't release the figures, but my best guess is that we have somewhere between 200-150k subs at best these days.

 

I see the double standards just don't stop with you, do they?

 

You demand proof from others who disagree with you, yet you are unwilling or unable to provide proof for your claims. Makes perfect sense to me.

[Djiini]

I see the double standards just don't stop with you, do they?

 

I see being unnecessarily confrontational in an otherwise civil debate just doesn't stop with you, does it?

[-Snakesan-]

I see being unnecessarily confrontational in an otherwise civil debate just doesn't stop with you, does it?

 

This Ratajack guy has a history of trolling threads that don't meet his personal sense of the status quo, have a look:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8137890#post8137890

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8137238#post8137238

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8137082#post8137082

 

That's just one subject, in a suggestion thread. He goes on so much its as if someone personally attacked his honor. Lets make a concerted effort to ignore this kind of behavior in the future.

[ekwalizer]

This Ratajack guy has a history of trolling threads that don't meet his personal sense of the status quo, have a look:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8137890#post8137890

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8137238#post8137238

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8137082#post8137082

 

That's just one subject, in a suggestion thread. He goes on so much its as if someone personally attacked his honor. Lets make a concerted effort to ignore this kind of behavior in the future.

 

So now disagreeing with a bad idea, and explaining why it is a bad idea is trolling? Who knew?

[Djiini]

So now disagreeing with a bad idea, and explaining why it is a bad idea is trolling? Who knew?

 

No, Ratajack was trolling. He was being unnecessarily insulting towards TUX earlier.

[ekwalizer]

No, Ratajack was trolling. He was being unnecessarily insulting towards TUX earlier.

 

I don't see pushing back as being unnecessarily insulting. TUX was asking for reference material within the last 12 months, but refused to accept any of it. So, Ratajack prodded him to provide his own material ...

[TUXs]

I don't see pushing back as being unnecessarily insulting. TUX was asking for reference material within the last 12 months, but refused to accept any of it. So, Ratajack prodded him to provide his own material ...

Which material posted was data from within the last 12 months? Not just posted, but it has to be data from the last 12 months.

Edited April 15, 2015 by TUXs

[ekwalizer]

The point was that you were demanding recent data, but offering none.

 

That said, is today recent enough for you? http://www.ea.com/news/update-on-a-few-of-our-free-to-play-pc-games

 

And then there is this: http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2014/10/swtor-revenues-climb-over-100-million-for-2014.html

 

Neither of these speak to direct subscription numbers, but both are recently positive articles about the games financial state.

Edited April 15, 2015 by ekwalizer

[TUXs]

The point was that you were demanding recent data, but providing none.

 

That said, is today recent enough for you? http://www.ea.com/news/update-on-a-few-of-our-free-to-play-pc-games

I was asking for them to back up their claims. That doesn't demand I give "proof". And mentioning SWTOR on one hand, while closing several other F2P games, isn't exactly reassuring.