Server Pops Too Low - Remove Shards

[Waypoc]

When the servers get to about heavy I start having to fight for mobs so I don't know what you are talking about.

 

I don't think you know what you are talking about because most people are still complaining about having to wait in queues.

 

I have to wait in queues every time I login only to find that there is no one else around.

[Waypoc]

I rather not have alot of toons around me... I dont want to fight for mobs... The chat channel goes across all shards.. So I dont understand the issue.

 

I am happy how this is working. If you want to see alot of people just go to the fleet...

 

Someone asked in this thread why it's such a big deal to have people around when you play. I mentioned the following and I say the same to you as to what the issue is.

 

• Friends
  
• Guild
  
• Sister Guilds
  
• Meeting new people
  
• Camaraderie
  
• Feeling that the World I'm in is alive. Right now it feels dead
  
• Teamwork
  
• The toons I see running around actually have people behind them
  
• Unpredictable game-play
  
• Massive Open World PvP Battles
  
• M(assively)M(ultiplayer)
  

 

It's really that simple. The world right now is dead because of the sharding and ifit doesn't change the game will be dead in 6 months. And for the record, the chat sucks in this game. Chat bubbles are sorely needed as well as ui customization.

[Spetsnazos]

Also I approve of sharding. It makes the game much more accessible to a broader range of gamers.

 

Not only does it help prevent overpopulation issues with quest mobs, it also allows you to not have to say, run into a "hub" and suddenly watch as your computer struggles to load potentially 100's of players.

 

It's true that sharding eliminates some of the "massive" part, but I'd prefer losing some of that instead of having to worry about avoiding any densely populated areas of the game.

 

welcome to a computer made in 1995. My computer was ablet o handle 100's of players in WoW

[Spetsnazos]

 

I am happy how this is working. If you want to see alot of people just go to the fleet...

 

and there you have it, single player gamers rejoice!

[JimG]

I think the problems with the shards lies in the average amount of time that players stay logged in. One of BW's posts quoted some stats about the average player being logged in for 5 hours. So what happens is that when the server is really busy, you end up with 2 shards on a planet, for example. But as the server starts to hit off-peak hours, many of the people in shard #2 are still logged in and so they stay in shard #2. This is how you end up with 50 in one shard and 50 in another shard. I think at one point I was playing on Taris in the wee hours of the morning and there were like 3 of us left in the second shard.

 

There is an easy fix for BW here to help with this. When the shards start to drop below a certain point in terms of population, then an option should pop up (as long as you're not in combat) which allows you to transfer to the first shard or the highest population shard that has spots available. This would be sort of like the option you get to transfer to the instance of your group leader. It should be optional so you're not forced into another shard if you're in the middle of waiting out a re-spawn or trying to get a datacron or something where you don't want to be transferred out of your shard yet.

 

In the meantime, there is a way for players to work around this problem. Re-log your character. Don't quit out of the game but just log out back to the character select screen and re-enter. You should get added to the first shard, which should be the most heavily populated one. If you don't re-log, you'll stay in your shard and it will continue to function as a shard as long as at least 1 person remains logged in.

[Tholena]

Looking for other thoughts on this. I thought this would be something that others would want as well.

 

Personally, I like that the world are not too full. True, I play PvE in the world and save my PvP for the warzones, so I admit that may color my impression.

 

It just feels more heroic and personal when there aren't a ton of players all over the place. I'm much happier with a game like that than other games where I always see players. The universe is more personal and I can feel like the star of the story much more often. Whenever I've needed to group, I've never had trouble finding people to do a few heroics or whatever. Other than that, I play with a friend and we quest together.

 

Also, from a technical perspective, I imagine the sharding is kept at a certain number in order to keep the system specs low. When there are a lot of players around, low spec computers will have a LOT of trouble. Sure, a good computer can handle 200 on a planet... but I have a friend with a computer at minimum specs and anything over about 40 and his system slows to a crawl.

 

And from a server standpoint, I don't know if you noticed, but these servers are doing a LOT more work than other MMO servers. More is going on, the AI is better, etc... I checked the bandwidth from my machine and this game is sending and receiving many more packets than other MMOs I've played.

 

(Also, it is worthy of note, that the towns in this game are every bit as busy as quest hubs in other MMOs... sure, not as busy as a capital city in WoW, but that's what fleet is. I can play through some of the WoW zones and never see another player either.)

[Tholena]

I agree as well. Its a tradeoff either way. They made a decision that story was #1. Once I gave up on having a bigger better MMO and jut enjoyed the story, well its been fun.

 

I guess what it comes down to is the product isnt what you were expecting. Is it still a good product, yeah its pretty good.

 

This is the primary issue many people are having. Bioware was always very very clear that this was not a sandbox game, that it was all about story, and story was how everything was designed...from the zones to the companions and flashpoints.

 

Some people expected different, and that is why they are upset. I can sympathize with them, but I personally like the game the way it is

 

Tholena

[Tholena]

welcome to a computer made in 1995. My computer was ablet o handle 100's of players in WoW

 

As much as some people don't like the graphics of this game, and lets not get into that please, I should point out that they are in every way harder on systems than the WoW graphics. There are many more polygons on the screen and many more high tech 3D options enabled. (And more on the way once they fix the problems with the high res textures on low end computers.)

 

WoW graphics have always been relatively easy on computers.

[DocVandar]

Personally, I like that the world are not too full. True, I play PvE in the world and save my PvP for the warzones, so I admit that may color my impression.

 

It just feels more heroic and personal when there aren't a ton of players all over the place. I'm much happier with a game like that than other games where I always see players. The universe is more personal and I can feel like the star of the story much more often. Whenever I've needed to group, I've never had trouble finding people to do a few heroics or whatever. Other than that, I play with a friend and we quest together.

 

...

 

(Also, it is worthy of note, that the towns in this game are every bit as busy as quest hubs in other MMOs... sure, not as busy as a capital city in WoW, but that's what fleet is. I can play through some of the WoW zones and never see another player either.)

 

I understand what you are saying and agree with you to some extent, at least with the questing areas. It is nice to not have to stand around and wait for mobs to respawn because there are three other people doing the same quest, which, IMO, breaks immersion.

 

I disagree with you with respect to the cities though. In my experience the cities feel too empty, especially given their massive size. It would be nice if Bioware could eliminate the sharding in the major cities (Kaas City, Coruscant, etc.) but keep it implemented for the rest of the maps.

[BWhiterose]

There is another aspect to this that some people overlook, the list of people in your shard does NOT show the number of players on the other side in your shard.

 

If you had say a limit of 100 players per shard, and you can only see 40 before another shard pops into existance, chances are there are 60 of the opposing faction running about on their side of the planet.

[Zakumene]

You say this now.

 

But when they increase the 'shard' population you wont find yourself fighting more world pvp, you'll find yourself sitting there waiting for the mission objective to respawn since some jerk just sniped it while you were fighting mobs to get to it.

[rissoxx]

Totally agree on this. I was online when the game was officially realesed. And I was like damn there will be so many people doing the same quests like in WoW when a new expansion is realesed. So the first 10 lvls there was actually alot of peoples but then after I had visited the main city it was almost completely dead. It feels so boring. Hope they do something about this! I mabey not wanna play in group but I wanna see other peoples playing aswell!

[Gridfire]

I quite like it as it is now. I had to go away for Xmas, so in the few days before I levelled as fast as possible to be at the front of the wave on my server, and was often one of the only people on any particular planet - particularly Quesh, I was nearly always the only person there (in my faction ofc). While I like a bustling city and have a PC that can cope with that, nothing annoys me more than rude a-holes who take the quest item you've been clearing mobs away from while you're still fighting.

 

It wasn't until Hoth that I regularly saw the opposite faction running around, and they usually scarpered as soon as they saw me because anyone on Hoth before Xmas Eve on my server (which opened on the 15th I think) was only interested in levelling fast.

 

As others have pointed out, waiting for spawns of mobs and quest items, venturing into the desolate but also highly populated wastes of Tatooine or Hoth, or obviously being one of 200 clones, kinda draws away from the epic storyline feel. It's still an MMO - I can group up for the Heroic areas, go to Flashpoints, Ops, Warzones, trade stuff on the market, show my stuff off in Fleet - but it's an MMO where you are made to feel more individually important.

[AstralProjection]

I understand what you are saying and agree with you to some extent, at least with the questing areas. It is nice to not have to stand around and wait for mobs to respawn because there are three other people doing the same quest, which, IMO, breaks immersion.

 

I disagree with you with respect to the cities though. In my experience the cities feel too empty, especially given their massive size. It would be nice if Bioware could eliminate the sharding in the major cities (Kaas City, Coruscant, etc.) but keep it implemented for the rest of the maps.

 

I remember the massive lag in the capital cities of certain games that did not shard them, especially right after launch...no matter what they can't win. Sure, it does feel empty, but sometimes that's at the cost of playability.

 

If nobody could walk on Dromund Kaas or Coruscant I think there would be a heck of a lot more complaints lodged here than those of us who want to see the world be more "alive" (and don't get me wrong, I'm one of them). I just think we're going to have to be patient for a while before we see this smoothed out, and as much as I don't like it, I think they've chosen the lesser of evils.

[rissoxx]

Totally agree on this. I was online when the game was officially realesed. And I was like damn there will be so many people doing the same quests like in WoW when a new expansion is realesed. So the first 10 lvls there was actually alot of peoples but then after I had visited the main city it was almost completely dead. It feels so boring. Hope they do something about this! I mabey not wanna play in group but I wanna see other peoples playing aswell!

[Waypoc]

This is the primary issue many people are having. Bioware was always very very clear that this was not a sandbox game, that it was all about story, and story was how everything was designed...from the zones to the companions and flashpoints.

 

Some people expected different, and that is why they are upset. I can sympathize with them, but I personally like the game the way it is

 

Tholena

 

MMO is MMO. This has nothing to do with sandbox. This has to do with the fact that everywhere I go it is devoid of all but 2-4/5 players. The game world feels dead.

[Waypoc]

As much as some people don't like the graphics of this game, and lets not get into that please, I should point out that they are in every way harder on systems than the WoW graphics. There are many more polygons on the screen and many more high tech 3D options enabled. (And more on the way once they fix the problems with the high res textures on low end computers.)

 

WoW graphics have always been relatively easy on computers.

 

This thread is not about the graphics. It's about visible population and how it is lacking. Please let's try keep it on that thread. Thanks.

[Waypoc]

I understand what you are saying and agree with you to some extent, at least with the questing areas. It is nice to not have to stand around and wait for mobs to respawn because there are three other people doing the same quest, which, IMO, breaks immersion.

 

I disagree with you with respect to the cities though. In my experience the cities feel too empty, especially given their massive size. It would be nice if Bioware could eliminate the sharding in the major cities (Kaas City, Coruscant, etc.) but keep it implemented for the rest of the maps.

 

I agree when it comes to interfering with quests. But as I and others have said in this thread earlier there are ways around this. Up the mobs and decrease the respawn timers for other mobs. And if necessary group with others though the first suggestion should not require it.

[Waypoc]

There is another aspect to this that some people overlook, the list of people in your shard does NOT show the number of players on the other side in your shard.

 

If you had say a limit of 100 players per shard, and you can only see 40 before another shard pops into existance, chances are there are 60 of the opposing faction running about on their side of the planet.

 

This is known and understood. But it still needs to be adjusted as the majority of what we do is on our faction side and we still see no one. As far as the opposite side they need to be adjusted as well for their sake and for ours so that we have more of a chance to interact in combat.

[Waypoc]

You say this now.

 

But when they increase the 'shard' population you wont find yourself fighting more world pvp, you'll find yourself sitting there waiting for the mission objective to respawn since some jerk just sniped it while you were fighting mobs to get to it.

 

Already offered solution above. It's the same solution that has been used in other MMO's for years. Up the mob number and decrease the respawn timers for named mobs.

[Waypoc]

I quite like it as it is now. I had to go away for Xmas, so in the few days before I levelled as fast as possible to be at the front of the wave on my server, and was often one of the only people on any particular planet - particularly Quesh, I was nearly always the only person there (in my faction ofc). While I like a bustling city and have a PC that can cope with that, nothing annoys me more than rude a-holes who take the quest item you've been clearing mobs away from while you're still fighting.

 

It wasn't until Hoth that I regularly saw the opposite faction running around, and they usually scarpered as soon as they saw me because anyone on Hoth before Xmas Eve on my server (which opened on the 15th I think) was only interested in levelling fast.

 

As others have pointed out, waiting for spawns of mobs and quest items, venturing into the desolate but also highly populated wastes of Tatooine or Hoth, or obviously being one of 200 clones, kinda draws away from the epic storyline feel. It's still an MMO - I can group up for the Heroic areas, go to Flashpoints, Ops, Warzones, trade stuff on the market, show my stuff off in Fleet - but it's an MMO where you are made to feel more individually important.

 

Already addressed above with increased mobs and decreased spawn timers. As far as having 200 clones, talk to BW and the limited number of classes and character customization. Or maybe seek a good single player game.

[Thelgow]

Already addressed above with increased mobs and decreased spawn timers. As far as having 200 clones, talk to BW and the limited number of classes and character customization. Or maybe seek a good single player game.

 

Sextuple post, much?

[MookieFett]

This is the primary issue many people are having. Bioware was always very very clear that this was not a sandbox game, that it was all about story, and story was how everything was designed...from the zones to the companions and flashpoints.

 

Some people expected different, and that is why they are upset. I can sympathize with them, but I personally like the game the way it is

 

Tholena

 

no this is a huge problem and will kill the game, hear me out.

 

LOTR online did the same thing. They went ridiculously stupid with it though and focused 100% on lore.

 

They followed it to a Tee so much they wouldn't even let u play as the non heroes unless in pvp instanced.

 

Now how could a game like that prosper outside of the fanboys? It couldn't. While they say its a 100% story now they're getting backlash from a HUGE community, they have to compromise that and move on.

 

If people like you want a full story game they can just do PVE servers. Honestly PVE servers were created for this same reason.

 

Tatooine is savable though, its the best planet in the game, they take away sharding and tatooine becomes the pvp hub for every level. I guarantee it.

[Waypoc]

I remember the massive lag in the capital cities of certain games that did not shard them, especially right after launch...no matter what they can't win. Sure, it does feel empty, but sometimes that's at the cost of playability.

 

If nobody could walk on Dromund Kaas or Coruscant I think there would be a heck of a lot more complaints lodged here than those of us who want to see the world be more "alive" (and don't get me wrong, I'm one of them). I just think we're going to have to be patient for a while before we see this smoothed out, and as much as I don't like it, I think they've chosen the lesser of evils.

 

Thanks for this and I appreciate your perspective. But how long do we have to wait for the smoothing process? The leveling curve is pretty non-curved. And this is not the first MMO to be made. There were experiences to be learned from failed MMO's. I just think they learned them too well and went overkill on the conservative side to their detriment.

 

BW devs or mods don't take this the wrong way. But we talk like we owe BW something or we're committing a wrong by requesting change and fixes to things that are obviously broke. We don't. This is a product. And it's a good product. And the beauty of this product is that as consumers we have a chance to help make it a great product. It's also a process over time that will show if we're successful or not.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that some of these things need to be fixed pretty quickly and there is not that much time to wait.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Waypoc

[Waypoc]

Personally, I like that the world are not too full. True, I play PvE in the world and save my PvP for the warzones, so I admit that may color my impression.

 

And it does color it a bit. On a PvP server where population is everything what do you do with such low populations everywhere. Random encounters are rare to say the least.

 

It just feels more heroic and personal when there aren't a ton of players all over the place. I'm much happier with a game like that than other games where I always see players. The universe is more personal and I can feel like the star of the story much more often. Whenever I've needed to group, I've never had trouble finding people to do a few heroics or whatever. Other than that, I play with a friend and we quest together.

 

What you're describing is one person more than a single player game.

 

Also, from a technical perspective, I imagine the sharding is kept at a certain number in order to keep the system specs low. When there are a lot of players around, low spec computers will have a LOT of trouble. Sure, a good computer can handle 200 on a planet... but I have a friend with a computer at minimum specs and anything over about 40 and his system slows to a crawl.

 

And from a server standpoint, I don't know if you noticed, but these servers are doing a LOT more work than other MMO servers. More is going on, the AI is better, etc... I checked the bandwidth from my machine and this game is sending and receiving many more packets than other MMOs I've played.

 

Everything you mention here is not our problem as players. It's BW's. This may be poor design, poor optimization or just a bad engine. Regardless of which none of the above should be a factor in an MMO to the extent it is in SWTOR.

 

(Also, it is worthy of note, that the towns in this game are every bit as busy as quest hubs in other MMOs... sure, not as busy as a capital city in WoW, but that's what fleet is. I can play through some of the WoW zones and never see another player either.)

 

This is only true for the fleet and Coruscant maybe. Go to other places and they are empty.

 

I appreciate your comments. See above.