t-darko Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Well, what I'm thinking is something along the lines of, "Heck, what can we do to make the SW franchise totally our own?" Best way to is to reboot it, make a new/rewrite the story that would fit in more to the Disney vision of things. Nothing there to stop them. It's not needed of course from a fan perspective, but it might not be the same perspective that Disney has. Some would argue that SW:Rebels is just such an attempt!! And by that attempt the major reboot here probably is considering the Fanbase!!! In matters of EU there is already an alternative universe: The game we play! and IMHO the best part of the EU is the core lore it is based on, as I don't care much for post RoTJ EU, no matter how well written a book is a bad story is a bad story and quite frankly it reeks of unimaginative writers block and just feels Vong ... oh it should read Wrong! As for the new Disney canon, and it's not like we've been without therapeutic obstacles to get over with old George at the helm either, at some point I felt that it can't get worse, but, on the other hand it could get real catastrophic and just become mainstream US Sci-Fi!! That scares the hell out of me . . . There's no secret that old George stole heavily from the great fantasy epos of our time, that he was influenced by every known and in some parts unknowned religion and sprinkled it with a shower of new age crap and a Lightsaber, then put it in the blender, being his head, and out came Star Wars. The raw product of '77 we fell in love with, but writers like Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan refined it, the question here is ; how much of that legacy is passed on to anything new in the making!? And as a fanbase we are split up in generations; The OT's, The Prequels; the TCW and probably the EU has been the connecting part between those generations and now it is gone . . . (well, not gone, but you all know what I mean or . . .?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngelRiku Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Honestly, I'd just ask them to make The Old Republic era canon again. Never really did care for the Post-ROTJ stuff, even if I did like Mara Jade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Honestly, I'd just ask them to make The Old Republic era canon again. Never really did care for the Post-ROTJ stuff, even if I did like Mara Jade. That would actually be a BAD idea. A lot of the tech in the Old Republic era is actually better than what has been portrayed in the movies. Personal full body shields, personal cloaking devices, multiple Super Weapons that make the Death Star look amateurish in comparison. Hell there are super weapons in this video game that are better than the Death Star. Star Destroyers that can target and destroy ships still in hyperspace? Weapons that can not only burn an entire planets surface but make it so no ship can take off and barely safely land? A weapon that, while yes would suck all the energy from a planet, can take out an ENTIRE fleet in one shot? No, most of the EU HAD to go imo. About the only books that would work and not be totally crazy would be the Zahn books...they are the only ones that really almost exclusively on story and not one upping the last author with "I can come up with a crazier superweapon or example of force power than you!". What was silly was they even did this with Old Republic Era stories. Edited February 23, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Well, what I'm thinking is something along the lines of, "Heck, what can we do to make the SW franchise totally our own?" Best way to is to reboot it, make a new/rewrite the story that would fit in more to the Disney vision of things. Nothing there to stop them. It's not needed of course from a fan perspective, but it might not be the same perspective that Disney has. If they were going to do a reboot a few things NEVER would have happened. 1. They would never have said the first 6 movies, and the two existing cartoon series were CANON. A reboot does not require Canon. 2. We would not have The Original cast present, Harrison Ford's broken leg and mark Hamill's contractually obligated beard. 3. No reason to have as the co-screenwriter Kasdan... the guy who Co-wrote Empire and solo wrote the final screenplays of RoJ. (Lucas wrote the original ones and Kasdan took the story and made it actually digestible. Wish they had hired him for 1-3 as well.) I get that people are people are looking for conspiracy theories because someone other than George has control and Abram's is the director etc... but such conspiracy theories ignore facts and beggar logic. Look t Disney with the Marvel Movies. No reboots. Each and everyone of them is very true to stuff that has been in the Comics (though yes a hybrid of the "traditional Universe and the Ultimate Universe). Disney has an overarching goal. Make Money. The first rule of making money is "If it's not broke don't fix it." The reason for turning the EU into Legend and not Canon is because to call anything in the EU Canon is, tbh, a complete freaking joke. It is so full of contradictions and the like it is mind boggling. It also FORCES writers to adhere to certain things. The only person who could have gotten away with breaking things in the EU is Lucas and only because the level of hero worship from fandom would have allowed it. Edited February 23, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshadowhunter Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 As we all know Disney has already changed up what is cannon. My question is if you could go to them and have them do one thing that is canon, what would it be? I would want the whole Midi-chlorians things removed from the Star Wars universe. We all love what George Lucas has done over all but he must of been high when he thought of Midi-chlorians. Honorable mentions. Make Reven and Mara Jade canon. I have seriously found that Disney has already change a lot. Somethings are really complicated now, for example Star wars Rebels is basically saying that they started the rebellion and the rebel symbol came from them, Sabine has it on her armor but in Star Wars Force Unleashed the symbol came from Starkiller ( Vader's secret apprentice ) and so did the rebellion ( not that I'm sure that this is canon, particular the 2nd force unleashed was a little dodge as far as lore went but that's not really the point ) this is actually making confussing. Another example is the Yoda chronicles, is seriously differs from Star Wars the Clone Wars and I really hope that isn't Disney's idea of canon but it makes all the characters look incredibly stupid. I also agree Revan being canon would be really cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshadowhunter Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Does anybody else feel that Disney is trying to make Star Wars for Little kids and completely forgetting about their older fans who don't want to see TV show ( Yoda Chronicles for example ) for three year olds but still see a lot of the new Star Wars stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Does anybody else feel that Disney is trying to make Star Wars for Little kids and completely forgetting about their older fans who don't want to see TV show ( Yoda Chronicles for example ) for three year olds but still see a lot of the new Star Wars stuff? They pretty much said some time ago cartoons to prep Kids... movies for adults. Also there is NO WAY they could get more kid friendly than Lucas...for gosh sakes he made script changes based on input from child psychologists, actors as guests on the Muppet show etc. I really get the feeling people are either ignoreing all of the same and even worse stuff Lucas did. It's bugging me at this point tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have seriously found that Disney has already change a lot. Somethings are really complicated now, for example Star wars Rebels is basically saying that they started the rebellion and the rebel symbol came from them, Sabine has it on her armor but in Star Wars Force Unleashed the symbol came from Starkiller ( Vader's secret apprentice ) and so did the rebellion ( not that I'm sure that this is canon, particular the 2nd force unleashed was a little dodge as far as lore went but that's not really the point ) this is actually making confussing. Another example is the Yoda chronicles, is seriously differs from Star Wars the Clone Wars and I really hope that isn't Disney's idea of canon but it makes all the characters look incredibly stupid. I also agree Revan being canon would be really cool Wolf How is it confusing? They said the only Canon was the cartoons and movies. As far as they are concerned Starkiller doesn't exist so if you are getting confused you are confusing yourself and yourself alone. And please you are concerned about something designed specifically for kids seeming "stupid" to an adult? For gosh sakes its a lego tv/web series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Why do people think Disney is the evil incarnated? Don't you know they own Marvel and what they did with it? Anyway even if you won't like what they do with Star Wars, who cares? You will still have your old Star Wars that you loved and you can ignore the new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaveshill Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Does anybody else feel that Disney is trying to make Star Wars for Little kids and completely forgetting about their older fans who don't want to see TV show ( Yoda Chronicles for example ) for three year olds but still see a lot of the new Star Wars stuff? Lucas -- likes kids blowing up ships and dominating battlefrields (9 year old kids, in this case) Likes weird creatures lie Jarr-jarr. Likes little teddy-bears defeating galactic elite-soldiers, and to make this even worse, this teddy bears hasn't even evolved past the stone age. How can Disney do worse? Yes, the first and the last movies are completely ruined by childish pranks. And most of the movies aren't that great anyways. Sure, the originals has their moments and ROTS is at times excellent, but it's not a rank 1 movie. The concept is 10/10, but it's at times poorly written and Lucas did, as Ghisallo said, make a lot of it based on what would pay off more and what would please the kids more. Don't think for a second that we'll see anything worse than ewoks or Jar-jar in the new movies. Because if we do, they'll at least not be dominating elite soldiers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshadowhunter Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 They pretty much said some time ago cartoons to prep Kids... movies for adults. Also there is NO WAY they could get more kid friendly than Lucas...for gosh sakes he made script changes based on input from child psychologists, actors as guests on the Muppet show etc. I really get the feeling people are either ignoreing all of the same and even worse stuff Lucas did. It's bugging me at this point tbh. I also totally feel that their changing so much without think it so so so annoying. Their pretty much doing what they want with caring about thing already done or what the fans want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I also totally feel that their changing so much without think it so so so annoying. Their pretty much doing what they want with caring about thing already done or what the fans want Well here is the thing. Lucas and the EU could give a crap either. That was all about royalties. IMO Most of the books (outside of the Zahn books), including comics, were written "So So" and were for Lucas all about the money and for the authors "how can I top something so and so did" with either tech or force powers. You needed the Canon rules, and the Holicron, because tall the other authors kept changing crap. This is not Canon. People like to pretend it is because they liked a particular story or Character but a Universe whose rules change on an irregular basis based on the latest video game or printed work is not a consistent Universe. It was all an illusion. I actually applaud Disney because what they are doing is saying "this is base line canon, anyone who wants to do something in the canon universe MUST get explicit approval for it". That is how you create a Canon. I know...heresy...how dare I say most of the EU is crap in terms of art...but it is. Now whether I ap[prove of what Abrams and kasdan show us this year... that is a different matter entirely but Disney HAD to do what they did in order to have movies that take place after RoJ and include the original cast at the same time. There only other option would have been to hop 2000 years into the future so the morass that is the EU did not matter. Edited February 24, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Well here is the thing. Lucas and the EU could give a crap either. That was all about royalties. IMO Most of the books (outside of the Zahn books), including comics, were written "So So" and were for Lucas all about the money and for the authors "how can I top something so and so did" with either tech or force powers. You needed the Canon rules, and the Holicron, because tall the other authors kept changing crap. This is not Canon. People like to pretend it is because they liked a particular story or Character but a Universe whose rules change on an irregular basis based on the latest video game or printed work is not a consistent Universe. It was all an illusion. I actually applaud Disney because what they are doing is saying "this is base line canon, anyone who wants to do something in the canon universe MUST get explicit approval for it". That is how you create a Canon. I know...heresy...how dare I say most of the EU is crap in terms of art...but it is. You act like the approval process that'll be going on at Disney is any different from how it was handled at LucasArts for ages. The Story Group is made up of people who were already in charge of continuity - just now organized under a new name. Every book, comic and video game that's come out for years if not decades was subject to approval from LucasArts to keep it consistent the same way they are now, heck the majority of it was work-for-hire where the plots originated with LucasArts who then went out and hired the authors to flesh it all out and give them a finished product. The only change is that they're starting fresh and that they're now going to be subjecting the movies and TV series to the same process that books and comics were all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 You act like the approval process that'll be going on at Disney is any different from how it was handled at LucasArts for ages. The Story Group is made up of people who were already in charge of continuity - just now organized under a new name. Every book, comic and video game that's come out for years if not decades was subject to approval from LucasArts to keep it consistent the same way they are now, heck the majority of it was work-for-hire where the plots originated with LucasArts who then went out and hired the authors to flesh it all out and give them a finished product. The only change is that they're starting fresh and that they're now going to be subjecting the movies and TV series to the same process that books and comics were all along. Disney said in its Canon setting press release that they were going to have much more strict control. For every other IP they control this is indeed the case. So unless the take actions that prove otherwise it is a safe bet that it will be different. Zahn had a manuscript approval process when he wrote his first trilogy but after that the approval process slowly withered away. The approval of Lucas arts eventually got reduced to general plotlines (once the ball got rolling on the EU) because if something didn't quite fit all it took was Leland Chee making a 'its not canon" declaration from the Holicron. Lucasarts started out great. In the end it became a money making merchandising machine. Many an article written about it. And Heck Lucas rewrites his own Canon between films when he changes his mind so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshadowhunter Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Lucas -- likes kids blowing up ships and dominating battlefrields (9 year old kids, in this case) Likes weird creatures lie Jarr-jarr. Likes little teddy-bears defeating galactic elite-soldiers, and to make this even worse, this teddy bears hasn't even evolved past the stone age. How can Disney do worse? Yes, the first and the last movies are completely ruined by childish pranks. Let's hope your right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaadswtor Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Zahn cannon. If the 4-5-6 ARE cannon (obviously), the only worth material comes from these books, the rest being commercial stuff only. Midichlorians off, well, definitely off, since the concept itself is, at best, dust in the wind. The rest is just kids' stuff, dragon ball style, nothing to gather the 7 to 77 fans (or not) in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Zahn cannon. If the 4-5-6 ARE cannon (obviously), the only worth material comes from these books, the rest being commercial stuff only. Midichlorians off, well, definitely off, since the concept itself is, at best, dust in the wind. The rest is just kids' stuff, dragon ball style, nothing to gather the 7 to 77 fans (or not) in there. Pretty much. Here I think is the problem. You have a few writers, Zahn being one of them, who believe that characterization and interesting plots are also important to "popular" science fiction. Then you have the Kevin J Andersons of the world who could give about that. Forget all the over the top force things, the Suncrusher...he doesn't do that just in Star Wars. He did it to Dune as well. "No-Ships" (ships cloaked not only to sensors but that could hide from prescience as well) until millennia after the God Emperor Leto II died. Kevin J Anderson brings them in during the time frame when Leto I was not even Duke yet and was just heir apparent (which was millennia BEFORE Leto II died) Some writers just don't think readers of popular science fiction are intelligent enough to appreciate goo writing and simply go for the literary equivalent of flashy special effects and big explosions. Edited March 2, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Let's hope your right It sucks but he likely is. Lucas overtime... tbh... sold out. It started with RoJ a little... script changes were made in the interest of the Marketing/merchandising division (Han Solo was supposed to die a hero's death, Luke to ride off exhausted into the sunset like Shane or other old western's etc.) They decided to give a trilogy of novels a try and there was some pretty solid oversight there BUT then again things changed. They saw just how much money they made off those books and it became "get me MORE!!!" Hell in an interview Lucas even admitted that he had never read any of the books and he personally didn't care what the books said because in his mind his movies were first and nothing that any of the books said would ever or could ever change that and impact his stories. The whole reason the Holocron was created had NOTHING to do with Lucas at all. Hell he admittedly changed his own Canon between films. It's one of the reasons why I find all of these debates based on a nebulous and completely subjective ruleset humorous because they are far from the definition of Canon. If something is Canon, it is not changeable. Some new author comes along 5 years later can't say "hey I have a better idea" and change it. Some game developers designing a game so kids and 30 year olds still living in Mom's basement can't say "we are going to change history so this character in this one video game will now be the center of the Universe" creating a twisted version of mental self-pleasuring. This is not Canon, this is simply making money off of an intellectual property. The fanatically faithful though demanded Canon so Lucas films gave us the illusion of Canon.... nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I don't concern myself with ''canon'' and what is or isn't canon or what is or isn't ''legends'' or G-or whatever the **** word you put there, unless it's in a discussion. I look at Star Wars history,the same way i look at real world history or any other fantasy or sci-fi franchise's history for that matter.Star Wars is the only one ****ed up in this way. Edited March 3, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't concern myself with ''canon'' and what is or isn't canon or what is or isn't ''legends'' or G-or whatever the **** word you put there, unless it's in a discussion. I look at Star Wars history,the same way i look at real world history or any other fantasy or sci-fi franchise's history for that matter. Star Wars is the only one ****ed up in this way. The entire concern noted by many though is that it will alter the fictional history of the world or portray characters in a way that they don't think is reflected by this fictional history. This fictional history and the portrayal of characters is by definition Canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I'd be good with thrawn and x-wing. MAYBE darth bane series (his existence and role is canon, though we got nothing of the story) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Make everything pre episode 1 canon. Make everything post ep 6 non canon and non Legends, call it fan fiction. Erase the word Moraband and remove Bane from it. Make any new Star Wars media 16 +,since 18+ would be pushing it. Problem solved, we live happily ever after. Edited March 6, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The entire concern noted by many though is that it will alter the fictional history of the world or portray characters in a way that they don't think is reflected by this fictional history. This fictional history and the portrayal of characters is by definition Canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Thing is I have zero concern because even Lucas changed his mind from movie to movie. Many things that were canon through the first 3 for tossed in the prequels. Hell stuff in 4 and 5 got tossed in 6. The books, basically right after Zahn stopped being about a work grounded in the first the movies and became a ridiculously spiraling cycle of "who can one up the last author's force feat or super weapon. Abrams and Disney simply can't do anything worse than we have seen before... They simply can't. Edited March 7, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argonloris Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 While I can't say much for anything that happens before the movies, I tend to think that all the EU things that happen after Episode 6 are still cannon in their own right. Even though it may be a bit blasphemous I'm going the Star Trek route with this one and saying alternate realities. In one version is the reality that Disney is crafting now, in another is what we've seen growing up with the EU. This way I can still appreciate the history that we've seen in the books while giving the new timeline a chance to not ruin my childhood. Honestly it would probably be a good move for Disney if they said this. In the end it would just give them more content to work with. They could keep the movies happening in their newly created timeline while writing books and games in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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