mikebevo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 In some fights it's actually beneficial for DPS to heal. One example is HM Underlurker when behind rock and out of LOS for the boss. Off-healer classes should heal there if energy allows. So basically it's worth using all tools your class possesses. Yeah and in some fights healers need to max dps even to their determent of healing HM and NiM TFB - Operator IX on the adds back when it was a relevant operations. In my main operation group, if we need a rez the dps commando usual does it. Save the channel on healers, plus commando is usually at further range than either healer. More likely person being rez can heal up some and get resources before being put back into combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAAAzrael Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yeah and in some fights healers need to max dps even to their determent of healing HM and NiM TFB - Operator IX on the adds back when it was a relevant operations. To be fair OpIX phase 1 needs hardly any healing if done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juerch Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I tend to be of the opinion that if something isn't working, it's the human trying to do said thing that is at fault. Of course there are some exceptions ( Underlurker used to be one of those, though it could still be beaten). As far as the HM FP's go, though, they are completely fine as they are. They are called Hard Mode's for a reason after all . Also, I find it very unreasonable to put blame on the healers by default if you die in these FP's. With the exception of maybe Rakata Prime, the "though" fights in the other HM's are all DPS checks. I'm not saying that your healer can't suck, but chances are it's a dps issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebevo Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) To be fair OpIX phase 1 needs hardly any healing if done right. Very light healing for the group, although there can be large spikes especially if tank misses a add and add runs to sage healer. However, you still need to be prepared to get energy/force back up at the start of phase 2. Personally I would dps using all my energy, but always keeping coolhead up, just in case and always at least keeping stacks of upperhand. I would also use diagnosis scan in any lull even if nobody needed a heal. Was just pointing out, that some fights are the opposite of what you pointed out, dps needing to offheal, some require healers to dps and at some points dps over healing. Not saying it was difficult, that fight was actually fun for a change. First time I actually had to think about how to get the most out of my dps on a healer while still being prepared for a oh **** moment. Edited February 11, 2015 by mikebevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAAAzrael Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Very light healing for the group, although there can be large spikes especially if tank misses a add and add runs to sage healer. However, you still need to be prepared to get energy/force back up at the start of phase 2. Personally I would dps using all my energy, but always keeping coolhead up, just in case and always at least keeping stacks of upperhand. I would also use diagnosis scan in any lull even if nobody needed a heal. Was just pointing out, that some fights are the opposite of what you pointed out, dps needing to offheal, some require healers to dps and at some points dps over healing. Not saying it was difficult, that fight was actually fun for a change. First time I actually had to think about how to get the most out of my dps on a healer while still being prepared for a oh **** moment. I never liked it because it's so easy to fail on some stupidity, makes me nervous even now after so many TFB timed runs. But yeah the biggest lesson is to use all tools given to you. As to healing I even happened to stealth out and meditate to heal up during healing intensive part as a tank, so whatever works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Most fun part that every "L2P"ers here are done this FP in 186 gear While its designed for 178... Hmm... I wonder what would they say when they get ripped apart with simple pulls So what i suggest. All people who agree that this boss is completely fine - make a video how you fight him "easily" in 178 blue gear. Just to show us - "noobs", how to play properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duniss Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Most fun part that every "L2P"ers here are done this FP in 186 gear While its designed for 178... Hmm... I wonder what would they say when they get ripped apart with simple pulls So what i suggest. All people who agree that this boss is completely fine - make a video how you fight him "easily" in 178 blue gear. Just to show us - "noobs", how to play properly. Yea like you cant cc mobs on simple pulls if they do too much dmg? And I kinda doubt that it says 178 blues required for that hm... you dont need a degree to do it ... Edited February 13, 2015 by Duniss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XORDYH Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yea like you cant cc mobs on simple pulls if they do too much dmg? And I kinda doubt that it says 178 blues required for that hm... you dont need a degree to do it ... From the mission log: Repeatable - This mission can be repeated in the future. Aid the Empire by completing three of the following missions on the hard difficulty mode. [HARD] Flashpoint: Assault on Tython [HARD] Flashpoint: Korriban Incursion [HARD] Flashpoint: Depths of Manaan [HARD] Flashpoint: Legacy of the Rakata [HARD] Flashpoint: Blood Hunt [HARD] Flashpoint: Battle of Rishi [Recommended Gear] Item Rating 178 Emphasis mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAAAzrael Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I would be up for that. Anybody from TRE wanna do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duniss Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 From the mission log: Emphasis mine. yea i dosent say 178 blues optimized 178 purple works better then crap you can buy whit 186 com gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XORDYH Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 yea i dosent say 178 blues optimized 178 purple works better then crap you can buy whit 186 com gear 178 Artifact? U WOT M8? There's no such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegrijsen Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 178 artifact? U wot m8? There's no such thing. roflmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebevo Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Where does it say recommend gear equals easy mode? Yes, the you can do it in 178, but then it is going to take knowlege of the instance and knowlege of your class with everyone working as a team for it to be easy mode. Hell don't know if it is a bug or what, but mine in game says 148, not 178. While I would go into either with friends, I am not going into a pug where I don't know the others skill level or know if they know the fights in 148 or 178 gear. Because I don't want to spend all day wiping. However, if I did I would expect to wipe. Gear does not make a good player. Gear does however give you wiggle room if someone makes a mistake and does prevent wipes. In 148 would say everyone would have to be real good and be lucky too. 178 just mean they don't have to be as good, but 186 is so easy to get I really don't see why anyone at least isn't in some form of it , however being smart enough to know which set bonus gear they should keep and keeping their stats in line. Again Boss isn't hard...Boss will be a cake walk in a few weeks as people gear. I never said it is a L2P issue. Your skill is up to you. However, I will not go into group content on a toon unless I know my class, my rotation, my cooldowns, my interrupts, my cleanses and have put a effort in to gear as much as possible and not merely meet the minimum recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Mithrandir Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) I would be up for that. Anybody from TRE wanna do that? Sure i heal that so HAAAARD boss. The hard part will be getting 178 blue. Its probably harder than get 192-198. Where is the vendor of that stuff? LOL Edited February 14, 2015 by Dark_Mithrandir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAAAzrael Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Sure i heal that so HAAAARD boss. The hard part will be getting 178 blue. Its probably harder than get 192-198. Where is the vendor of that stuff? LOL It drops in Rishi storyline I think. Might be possible to craft? Dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Where does it say recommend gear equals easy mode? Yes, the you can do it in 178, but then it is going to take knowlege of the instance and knowlege of your class with everyone working as a team for it to be easy mode. Hell don't know if it is a bug or what, but mine in game says 148, not 178. While I would go into either with friends, I am not going into a pug where I don't know the others skill level or know if they know the fights in 148 or 178 gear. Because I don't want to spend all day wiping. However, if I did I would expect to wipe. Gear does not make a good player. Gear does however give you wiggle room if someone makes a mistake and does prevent wipes. In 148 would say everyone would have to be real good and be lucky too. 178 just mean they don't have to be as good, but 186 is so easy to get I really don't see why anyone at least isn't in some form of it , however being smart enough to know which set bonus gear they should keep and keeping their stats in line. Again Boss isn't hard...Boss will be a cake walk in a few weeks as people gear. I never said it is a L2P issue. Your skill is up to you. However, I will not go into group content on a toon unless I know my class, my rotation, my cooldowns, my interrupts, my cleanses and have put a effort in to gear as much as possible and not merely meet the minimum recommendations. Said person that running this boss in 186 gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Well if you're interested, I didn't record it, but did this boss yesterday with 3 people in 186 gear and the healer in WORSE than 178 gear (had a few leveling greens still and no augments, 41k HP), and we passed it just fine. Healer was actually new to the game, so I simply explained mechanics to him thoroughly after a couple wipes, no issues after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Well if you're interested, I didn't record it, but did this boss yesterday with 3 people in 186 gear and the healer in WORSE than 178 gear (had a few leveling greens still and no augments, 41k HP), and we passed it just fine. Healer was actually new to the game, so I simply explained mechanics to him thoroughly after a couple wipes, no issues after that. And i solo'ed Dread Fortress... Unfortunatly i didn't record it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Most fun part that every "L2P"ers here are done this FP in 186 gear While its designed for 178... Hmm... I wonder what would they say when they get ripped apart with simple pulls So what i suggest. All people who agree that this boss is completely fine - make a video how you fight him "easily" in 178 blue gear. Just to show us - "noobs", how to play properly. Recommended Gear level is like recommended system specs for software. Can you run SWTOR on an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+ or better or an Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz or better running Windows 7 with 2GB RAM and a 256MB vid card? Sure you can - it will run on the lowest graphics settings and even then it will be laggy. Can you run a level 60 HMFP with a group 4 in rating 178 gear? Sure you can - but the hardware between the keyboard and chair will have to be top notch and even then the team will struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Recommended Gear level is like recommended system specs for software. Can you run SWTOR on an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+ or better or an Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz or better running Windows 7 with 2GB RAM and a 256MB vid card? Sure you can - it will run on the lowest graphics settings and even then it will be laggy. Can you run a level 60 HMFP with a group 4 in rating 178 gear? Sure you can - but the hardware between the keyboard and chair will have to be top notch and even then the team will struggle. Team will struggle? But... Isn't this is what ELITISTs are looking for :D:D:D:D:D A challenge!!!! Now take it))) Enjoy it))) Its ALL yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerilas Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) First boss HM Tython "difficult". Just *********** lol. I pugged it tons of times, all you have to do is explain it IN DETAIL to the new people, give it a couple of tries and bam you done killed it. Only absolutely horrible people can't beat this. (I'm so going to get flamed for this...) Ever done wildstar "HM" dungeons? Those needed 10x - 20x as much -practice- to get it right -enough- to clear it, let alone get Gold on it. Oh and that's with a premade. Edited February 15, 2015 by Aerilas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 And i solo'ed Dread Fortress... Unfortunatly i didn't record it lol, if you think what I said is the equivalent of soloing Dread Fortress, or you expect me to record every pug flashpoint I run, you're something else. I'm on the Ebon Hawk server if you'd ever like to run with me sometime, character names are listed in my sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBlackJack Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 lol, if you think what I said is the equivalent of soloing Dread Fortress, or you expect me to record every pug flashpoint I run, you're something else. I'm on the Ebon Hawk server if you'd ever like to run with me sometime, character names are listed in my sig. I'm on the ebon hawk as well. I would run with u. I'm on pub side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwarzchild Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I am actually pretty pumped with the community in a recent sense. People are starting to understand the mechanics of the Imos fight. I hadn't tried pugging it for about two weeks because I simply didn't have the patience for it all. But, yesterday got into a pug, one dude was a first timer to the hard mode. He struggled, but we ended up clearing everything which I found to be a total shock. I think what we're starting to see is the community starting to adapt to more mechanically demanding fights. 2.0 spoiled us with mindless mechanics especially in flashpoints. Now my hope is that the learning curve is finally showing some positive results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorthox Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 After reading some posts, I must say that I do know the mechanics. But no matter what, the heals have always seem to be lacking and I find myself healing myself. Bringing a level of coordination to a PUG group, most of the time ends in a bad results. From the comments, most have it easier than others. I have done all the HM's successfully, except Tython. But now, my only problem with hard modes is the hour and half wait times in order to run a single hard mode flashpoint. My trooper is almost in full 192, but I would like to gear up my other toons, but waiting over an hour for queue times is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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