eskimo_brother Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I remember watching the twitch stream for the unveiling of the new class changes for 3.0 and the first one they did was sorcs and there being a moment when everybody cried out that ranged was going to be OP and that mDPS were going to get decimated and Musco told everybody no you guys just haven't seen what we have in store for mDPS...I'm still waiting to find out what that was. Damage wise mDPS all have one spec that does well in at least PVE, but the ops are so unhospitable for mDPS that you are kneecapping yourself if you bring one in. There are plenty of fights that you can say that you would never bring a mdps into but none that you would say that you wouldn't ever bring a rdps into. It used to be somewhat of a trade off because mDPS would generally hit harder because they were always in the most harms way. But now they lack the dps of classes like sniper and merc and have a good chance of getting melted. Force storm is ridiculously out of control but instead of fixing that you decide to nerf Pyro PT's, really? The one decent mDPS class in an op and you are deciding to nerf them. Furthermore you are nerfing the class which nobody is complaining about being overpowered, most people's complaint is about AP but you are already taking unload out of that. Marauders are terrible in PVP, assassins have one decent dps spec for pvp/pve(hint: it's not deception), juggs have one good spec(virtually no reason at all to play rage), pt's had two great specs but you are taking the nerf hammer to them, but hey at least sorcs, mercs, and snipers dps isn't "overperforming"... Everytime I see a post about how you are trying to fix tank dps I want to scream, why don't you fix dps dps first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faardor Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 BIoware is mostly interested in shutting up the VERY vocal PvP community rather than actually fix something for their PVE community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatterstar Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 BIoware is mostly interested in shutting up the VERY vocal PvP community rather than actually fix something for their PVE community. No, they are busy over-buffing shadows/sins, as it seems that if they play, that is what they play. If they were listening to the pvp community, mara wouldn't suck so badly right now, and they would leave ops alone (or maybe buff them a bit). The problem is, they only seem to listen to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitusOfTides Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 With the 3.1 update, it looks like the melee classes should get some good fixes in time for Season 4. Other than that, it just looks like the way to play these classes has changed a bit - so someone trying to play them similar to how they used to play might be having some difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faardor Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No, they are busy over-buffing shadows/sins, as it seems that if they play, that is what they play. If they were listening to the pvp community, mara wouldn't suck so badly right now, and they would leave ops alone (or maybe buff them a bit). The problem is, they only seem to listen to themselves. Which partially has to do with the PvP crying from Shadow / Sin players in 2.~ (not at the end of patch 2 but like middle / middle end) and bioware never fixing to balance Shadow/Sins since then. The expansion just made a small problem into a worse one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo_brother Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 With the 3.1 update, it looks like the melee classes should get some good fixes in time for Season 4. Other than that, it just looks like the way to play these classes has changed a bit - so someone trying to play them similar to how they used to play might be having some difficulty. Not sure if you are kidding or not. All that the patch fixes for 3.1 is tank dps which is my last concern honestly. As far as playing them differently I have no clue what you are talking about. If you are talking about rotation yeah that is going to change. But you can't change that you need to be within 4m of the boss to attack. Torque HM for instance, mDPS are just going to get melted almost immediately or rarely attacking the boss trying to stay alive. You would be better off bringing a mediocre rdps rather than a skilled mdps. No, they are busy over-buffing shadows/sins, as it seems that if they play, that is what they play. If they were listening to the pvp community, mara wouldn't suck so badly right now, and they would leave ops alone (or maybe buff them a bit). The problem is, they only seem to listen to themselves. I can appreciate your concern that shadows/sins are "over-buffed" for pvp. And on the flip side of that mara's might suck in pvp but they do great damage in pve. The problem is with the positional requirements of most fights there might be long periods where a mdps isn't doing anything but avoiding standing in something and trying to stay alive, while a rdps is churning out damage and still capable of avoiding anything they need to and are the highest parsing dps also. The ops now punish you and your group for bringing in mdps which I was pretty sure that Bioware said they were going to avoid because they didn't want any class left out or thought of as a weakness to an ops group. And while rdps are at the top of the DPS leaderboards and there have been plenty of complaints about force storm being out of control, they instead decide that they need to nerf slot machines, fix tank dps, nerf mdps classes that nobody is complaining about etc, etc. They basically have made it so that there is no reason to ever bring a jug, sin, mara, operative, or pt dps into an operation, just load up on sorcs, mercs, and snipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citruzz Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Not sure if you are kidding or not. All that the patch fixes for 3.1 is tank dps which is my last concern honestly. As far as playing them differently I have no clue what you are talking about. If you are talking about rotation yeah that is going to change. But you can't change that you need to be within 4m of the boss to attack. Torque HM for instance, mDPS are just going to get melted almost immediately or rarely attacking the boss trying to stay alive. You would be better off bringing a mediocre rdps rather than a skilled mdps. This torque joker doesn't count anymore. A good mDPS should not have any problem to get a high uptime on torque without any dps loss. The strongest dps i've seen on this encounter comes from a mDPS so far (~6.5k). Torque requires two strong aoe classes, beyond that, bring what you want. I can appreciate your concern that shadows/sins are "over-buffed" for pvp. And on the flip side of that mara's might suck in pvp but they do great damage in pve. The problem is with the positional requirements of most fights there might be long periods where a mdps isn't doing anything but avoiding standing in something and trying to stay alive, while a rdps is churning out damage and still capable of avoiding anything they need to and are the highest parsing dps also. The ops now punish you and your group for bringing in mdps which I was pretty sure that Bioware said they were going to avoid because they didn't want any class left out or thought of as a weakness to an ops group. And while rdps are at the top of the DPS leaderboards and there have been plenty of complaints about force storm being out of control, they instead decide that they need to nerf slot machines, fix tank dps, nerf mdps classes that nobody is complaining about etc, etc. They basically have made it so that there is no reason to ever bring a jug, sin, mara, operative, or pt dps into an operation, just load up on sorcs, mercs, and snipers On single target encounters, i think melees are in front of any range class. Of course, you need a lot of routine and knowing each movementpattern of any encounter to maximize your dps. Please do not compare dummy dps vs. raid dps. A mDPS must only be in meleerange to do full dps, every step a rDPS is doing, results in a dps loss. The most important part for mDPS to do a good dps is a high uptime on a boss. A rDPS needs a high apm. To save a high apm on a encounter is much more difficult. Edited February 7, 2015 by Citruzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitusOfTides Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Not sure if you are kidding or not. All that the patch fixes for 3.1 is tank dps which is my last concern honestly. As far as playing them differently I have no clue what you are talking about. If you are talking about rotation yeah that is going to change. But you can't change that you need to be within 4m of the boss to attack. Torque HM for instance, mDPS are just going to get melted almost immediately or rarely attacking the boss trying to stay alive. You would be better off bringing a mediocre rdps rather than a skilled mdps. I can understand your lack of concern for tank dps, but you still have to consider people who play a singler saber mDPS - just as you feel inclined to say that the developers should consider you. On playing them differently, I meant mostly from a gearing perspective. Everyone seems to be neglecting alacrity, which of course is an old habit to squash, but 3.0 seems to be all about alacrity. There are handful of Mara/Sents on my server that have caught on to this, and they are drastically outperforming others in their class. Also, mainstat is garbage now. I can assure you, if you switch to quick savant enhancements and overkill augments you will see a vast improvement. 3.0 is still fairly new, and not everyone has fully adapted to the changes it has brought - let alone realized the new stat priority. Edited February 7, 2015 by TitusOfTides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordbird Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 So, to fix the broken play of mara/sent we just stack alacrity? Lolol, no...sorry, but just...no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitusOfTides Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 So, to fix the broken play of mara/sent we just stack alacrity? Lolol, no...sorry, but just...no. First off, whether or not it is "broken" is purely subjective. Secondly, stating that stacking a specific stat is not ideal is just foolish. When people tell you to that Strength is a paramount stat, do you reject that as well? If that's the case, that could be the reason you perceive these great classes as broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llayles Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I remember watching the twitch stream for the unveiling of the new class changes for 3.0 and the first one they did was sorcs and there being a moment when everybody cried out that ranged was going to be OP and that mDPS were going to get decimated and Musco told everybody no you guys just haven't seen what we have in store for mDPS...I'm still waiting to find out what that was. What he meant is mDPS are REALLY gonna get it when 3.0 hits. : ' ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allexj Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 So, to fix the broken play of mara/sent we just stack alacrity? Lolol, no...sorry, but just...no. Hey in play a Shadow Tank, and our single target DPS is horrible if you go 1v1 to half the classes you lose because you can't tank the damage they put out or kill them fast enough to survive without a healer, this might balance it out some not sure if it will work I think they need to make mind crush do more damage for sin tanks would be better off but we will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaowZedong Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) On single target encounters, i think melees are in front of any range class. Of course, you need a lot of routine and knowing each movementpattern of any encounter to maximize your dps. Please do not compare dummy dps vs. raid dps. A mDPS must only be in meleerange to do full dps, every step a rDPS is doing, results in a dps loss. I'm going to question that you've even played the game since 3.0....this certainly used to be true for many ranged classes, but now ranged use mostly instants and casts/channels that they are allowed to cast on the move (with utilities, at least). Ranged can now move during the majority of their rotations. Only two of the three sniper specs need to stand still most of the time, but if you maximise movement during your instant GCD it's not too bad on most fights. In the worst case, ranged have to substitute a weaker ability for a stronger—meanwhile if melee is out of range for a second, they lose an entire GCD, not even doing auto-attack damage. But in 2.x you would be absolutely correct, few RDPS had the ability to maintain good DPS while moving constantly. It just isn't the case anymore in 3.0, some ranged classes can even achieve optimal DPS with 100% mobile rotations, not standing still for a single GCD. The most important part for mDPS to do a good dps is a high uptime on a boss. A rDPS needs a high apm. To save a high apm on a encounter is much more difficult. What—I mean are you for real? The main things that lead to APM differences are uptime and lag. Lag you can't usually do anything about, and uptime is either the same for everyone or favours ranged, it never favours melee. If you have trouble pressing the right hotkeys without losing APM, there are plenty of workarounds—for instance with Autohotkey and voice recognition software you can fire off your abilities by voice command, etc. That is an UI issue, not a skill issue, and one that can be largely solved by modern useability software and hardware. Not that most people need such things—it is easier to execute a rotation in this game than to type at 100wpm without error. Edited February 12, 2015 by MiaowZedong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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