VitalityPrime Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I have watched all of The Clone Wars cgi series, but none of the newer Rebels series. Which do you like better and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 They both have their charm, although TCW is better but mostly because Rebels is still just starting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitalityPrime Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 They both have their charm, although TCW is better but mostly because Rebels is still just starting out. From the looks of it...it seems like Rebels is geared more towards kids only. Is that the case...or am I way off base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 From the looks of it...it seems like Rebels is geared more towards kids only. Is that the case...or am I way off base? Nah, it's pretty good and it was pretty dark in one episode. I mean you may cringe at the things Rebels has done to the Empire(I know I still do)...buuut....it's picking up into becoming a good show, TCW wasn't exactly a 5 star show when it first started out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Rebels can be a decent show, but in comparison to TCW its an embarrassment. And It continues to baffle me how the creators of the Clone Wars could go on to make a show that is so sub-standard in comparison. Its childish. And when I say childish I don't mean aimed at children (although in part it is) but that it feels as if its been made by children. On top of that it has an evidently minuscule budget, the entire series (and apparently the galaxy) revolves around the backwater planet called Lothal that is basically a white-wash of cream coloured fields and mounds i.e. boring. And yet it appears that they lack the budget to animate other worlds, so instead they've chosen to shoe horn every aspect of the storyline to somehow tie in to the planet. For example for no particular reason the bad guys are all HQed there, it just so happens to be the location of a forgotten Jedi Temple and in the latest episode Grand Moff frikken Tarkin decided it was worth a visit. What next, Darth Vader? Emperor Palpatine decides to take a holiday? i wouldn't be surprised. Simply put for all the good moments it has, which it does, it has an equal number of cringe worthy fails and disappointments to match. Unless you are a hardcore fan of Star Wars, I wouldn't recommend bothering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaulderBenson Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) From the looks of it...it seems like Rebels is geared more towards kids only. Is that the case...or am I way off base? You're correct. Rebels is clearly aimed at a slightly younger audience, which I believe is a good thing. As for comparisons, it's pointless at the moment. There are 5 and half seasons of the Clone Wars and Rebels hasn't completed one yet. Edited February 5, 2015 by CaulderBenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Rebels can be a decent show, but in comparison to TCW its an embarrassment. And It continues to baffle me how the creators of the Clone Wars could go on to make a show that is so sub-standard in comparison. Its childish. And when I say childish I don't mean aimed at children (although in part it is) but that it feels as if its been made by children. On top of that it has an evidently minuscule budget, the entire series (and apparently the galaxy) revolves around the backwater planet called Lothal that is basically a white-wash of cream coloured fields and mounds i.e. boring. And yet it appears that they lack the budget to animate other worlds, so instead they've chosen to shoe horn every aspect of the storyline to somehow tie in to the planet. For example for no particular reason the bad guys are all HQed there, it just so happens to be the location of a forgotten Jedi Temple and in the latest episode Grand Moff frikken Tarkin decided it was worth a visit. What next, Darth Vader? Emperor Palpatine decides to take a holiday? i wouldn't be surprised. Simply put for all the good moments it has, which it does, it has an equal number of cringe worthy fails and disappointments to match. Unless you are a hardcore fan of Star Wars, I wouldn't recommend bothering. Is that so hard to beleive? Telos Illum Dantooine Taris These are just a few places that had jedi temples (some of which are in this game) As for the rest well they have visited other planets kessel was in the first episode, and then there is that asteroid field, But i do agree more space travel is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) You're correct. Rebels is clearly aimed at a slightly younger audience, which I believe is a good thing. As for comparisons, it's pointless at the moment. There are 5 and half seasons of the Clone Wars and Rebels hasn't completed one yet.I think TCW demonstrated its possible to target both audiences at once, I really can't see I kid who enjoys Rebels somehow not enjoying TCW as much because is too mature... but yes it has time to get better.Is that so hard to beleive? Telos Illum Dantooine Taris These are just a few places that had jedi temples (some of which are in this game) As for the rest well they have visited other planets kessel was in the first episode, and then there is that asteroid field, But i do agree more space travel is needed.No its not, but its quite obvious the only reason the temple is there is because they can't afford to visit Telos, Ilum, Dantooine, Taris etc. However its not really fair to hold that against the writers, its Disney's fault really. However the idea that Tarkin would visit Lothal has required some serious suspension of disbelief on my part. Edited February 5, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I didn't care much for Rebels at all. I stopped watching around episode 4. I just didn't care for the animation, the characters, or the story. I don't know what's happened in the show since I stopped watching, but it probably didn't get much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I didn't care much for Rebels at all. I stopped watching around episode 4. I just didn't care for the animation, the characters, or the story. I don't know what's happened in the show since I stopped watching, but it probably didn't get much better. Eh, the Empire doesn't seem quite as useless the last few episodes. Still not how they should be, mind you, but not as bad as it was. Heck, they actually nearly captured them multiple times using subtly and misdirects... If it was TCW though they would totally be captured or dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaulderBenson Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) I think TCW demonstrated its possible to target both audiences at once, Agreed, but that is not the conversation I'm having. I really can't see a kid who enjoys Rebels somehow not enjoying TCW as much because is too mature. I never stated or implied that. I would of course prefer more maturity, but this show isn't targeted at me so why level that charge at it? Saying Rebels could be more mature is superfluous to the fact that it's aiming for a younger audience than Clone Wars, and that's a good thing for this show because I get the feeling it's doing that extremely well and accomplishing its (and Disney's) long term goals. Edited February 5, 2015 by CaulderBenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Agreed, but that is not the conversation I'm having. I never stated or implied that. I would of course prefer more maturity, but this show isn't targeted at me so why level that charge at it? Saying Rebels could be more mature is superfluous to the fact that it's aiming for a younger audience than Clone Wars, and that's a good thing for this show because I get the feeling it's doing that extremely well and accomplishing its (and Disney's) long term goals.All I'm saying is that it age bracket a little, it would get more viewers. I don't think it is, I feel as if they are just dumbing it down. Star Wars just isn't designed to be that dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaulderBenson Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) All I'm saying is that it age bracket a little, it would get more viewers. I understand what you're saying. I disagree. You're proposing that you should alter a show that's successfully reaching its targeted demographic. I do think it would probably get more viewers, but they don't want that. The show is doing what it's supposed to, and that's good enough. I don't think it is, I feel as if they are just dumbing it down. Rebels is cleary meant for preteens. How old are you? My next question is do you have any or know any preteens so that you can adequately judge how they are receiving Rebels? I haven't heard anything yet that says Disney is displeased with it, but again, it's early in the shows life. The jury is still out. Star Wars just isn't designed to be that dumb. What you call dumb, many others enjoy. Secondly, Star Wars is a property with universal appeal. It is meant for all ages, but that doesn't mean every product has to be appeal to every fan. There are preschool Star Wars reading and learning activity books. Would you call those dumb because they're catering to a younger fanbase? Rebels is simply not meant, in general, for an older audience. I would love a more mature cartoon aimed at my age-bracket, but at the moment there isn't one, so continuing to advocate changing Rebels to appeal to my personal tastes when it isn't intended to misses the point of the show. Of course we'll see how Rebels evolves over the course of its run, but I suspect other than a few character deaths and macabre situations (using Luminara's corpse as bait), the tone of the show will remain consistent. Ether way, I think I've said enough here. I don't believe I'll respond again so as not to derail the thread from its intended purpose. Edited February 5, 2015 by CaulderBenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) I feel your contradicting yourself, you state that Star Wars is designed to have universal appeal, and yet clearly Rebels is aimed at a single demographic and everyone else should stay out of it? That's just the problem, Rebels doesn't possess that universal appeal as TCW did and is therefore failing to achieve that intrinsic aspect of the saga. What Rebels should be is, like TCW, a show that can appeal to all audiences, young and old. I am not asking for a mature Star Wars, TCW was not mature Star Wars, but it did appeal to a much wider demographic. And I think the clumsy execution of Rebels is proof that Star Wars was never designed to be a solely pre-teen experience. Those pre-teen learning books and stuffs are non-canon i.e. they are not pretending to be something they aren't. I am sure that if Vader's little princess were passed off as the true story of Star Wars, fans would describe it as dumb. And that's the problem, Rebels is a major multimedia project that's trailblazing new and important story between Episode III and IV, its hardly fair to the fans to make this experience exclusive for pre-teens, and it fails to do justice to the era it's expanding. I'd also find it highly unlikely that Dave Filoni would define this show as exclusively for pre-teens, he'd claim its universal, like TCW aimed at all the fans, but its not, so its not successful in what its trying to achieve. Edited February 6, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarcen Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Star Wars just isn't designed to be that dumb. Droids and Ewoks. End of story. You can add the Holiday Special if you want to get real loopy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I didn't watch rebels for a long time because I hated it for various reasons. A few weeks ago I decided to give it a try and not give a **** about those reasons, like Disney, TCW shuting down because of it, that it will probably overwrite TFU, that this is not my favourite era etc etc. And I enjoyed it, take that for whatever it's worth. If you try to just watch it as a show and not overanalyze it or expect too much of it then you might enjoy it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalmeseReb Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Clone wars is much better because it uses established characters as well as new ones. So far Rebels is 99% new characters who you simply don't care that much about yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCJK Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 There are preschool Star Wars reading and learning activity books. Would you call those dumb because they're catering to a younger fanbase? Except these are not canon. What is more, ''Rebels'' is supposed(as far as I know ) to explain the beginning of the rebellion - the important part in SW lore most of the fans would like to know. I'm pretty sure if you were to get ''preschool Star Wars reading'' about post-ROTJ lore INSTEAD of proper Episodes 7,8 etc. you wouldn't be very happy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I prefer the Clone Wars and wish they would have finished off their 6th season and whatever else they had planned. would have loved to see that Ventress arc the Maul arc in their true forms rather than a novel and comic. That said, I don't think Rebels is that bad. The inquistor is fairly menacing antagonist and the show has its shining moments. They really need to delve more into the characters backgrounds though. 14 episodes in and I barely know anything about any of the other characters like Sabine or Hera. (Sabine is actually rumored to be starring in SW film in 2016 oddly enough in spite of this.) In addition they need to get off Lothal. While I do think the animation is a little bit of a downgrade in alot of ways, they do have some elements that do look prettier but they really need to get off Lothal. Sick of that planet, and kind really hints toward the cheaper budget if they can't barely get off that single planet. I do think it has its entertaining elements however, and if they toned down on some of its kiddie elements , along with more character development and more varied terrain and scenery, I can see myself liking it alot more. It has potential imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Droids and Ewoks. End of story. You can add the Holiday Special if you want to get real loopy. I'll preface this by saying that I disagree with Beni's assertion that Rebels is dumbing SW down to any sort of offensive degree - I think it's fine as a kids' show, and that kids' shows are a fine addition to the overall SW brand as long as they're quality shows. But, with that said, I'm not sure many would point to Ewoks, Droids, the Holiday Special, or heck even Jar-Jar Binks, as examples of what Star Wars should be as a brand. They are certainly part of its history, but just because a brand has made missteps in the past doesn't mean they should treat those examples as precedent for what they should do in the future. Edited February 6, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaulderBenson Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Except these are not canon. What is more, ''Rebels'' is supposed(as far as I know ) to explain the beginning of the rebellion - the important part in SW lore most of the fans would like to know. I'm pretty sure if you were to get ''preschool Star Wars reading'' about post-ROTJ lore INSTEAD of proper Episodes 7,8 etc. you wouldn't be very happy about it. I actually don't care. You should be mindful and not ascribe opinions to someone else casually. It makes you sound foolish. Canon is irrelevant in this discussion. There were many young adult and preteen novels that were canon. The young Boba Fett books, the Young Jedi Knight series starring Jaina and Jacen to name a few. They were very childish. I read them years ago as an adult. I didn't complain about the reading level. Rebels' purpose is to get new kids into Star Wars. Hence the main focus being a young kid training to be a jedi. He's adopted into a family, flying on a starship, having adventures, etc. It's escapist fantasy, the exact same as Luke Skywalker - simple farm boy - going off to save the galaxy. It's a targeted strategy to get young kids. That's who Disney wants watching this show and rightfully so. They own Star Wars and plan to produce Star Wars material until they go out of business. A successful franchise needs to constantly have new *young* fans coming aboard. You will get mature SW product. It's coming at the end of the year. It's called Episode 7. You can also read the Rebel related tie ins - the novels and such. Those are aimed at a more mature audience, you're not being entirely excluded when it comes to the beginning of the rebellion era. We've already gotten a Tarkin novel and a new Vader novel is on the way, and there is a new line of Marvel comics. Rebels is not for you. Disney wants little kids watching this show with their parents, and I know a couple of dads who are doing this very thing. Disney apparently feels that the real magic of Star Wars is the original trilogy era, not the prequel era. That's one reason why they cancelled Clone Wars; to finally close the book on that era. When you go to Disney Star Wars weekend - most of it - is all original trilogy related. Mickey in the orange rebel flight suit, X-Wings, Tie Fighters, etc. They have a jedi academy for little kids. I don't know if you've been there, but it's insanely popular, The trailer for episode 7 was what? Desert planet (probably Tat), stormtrooper, Millenium Falcon, X-wings, etc. It's got Han, Luke, and Leia in the movie as well. It's all evoking the OT. Disney is setting the stage for decades worth of product with Rebels and the upcoming Episode 7. Rebels is designed to bring back the imagery of the OT and introduce it to a new generation of fans. They just released a new Adventures of Luke Skywalker book featuring Ralph McQuarrie artwork. That's not a coincidence. Disney did the same thing with its acquisition of Marvel. They made a bunch of cartoons for little kids to make them fans at an early age. The movies are for the older fans. I watched the hour long premier of Rebels, realized it was going to skew to a mostly younger audience and said "Hey that's cool. I'll catch the next train." I'm guessing a lot of you people are younger, 16-25-ish. I think you are not seeing the forest for the trees. Disney is very wisely planning long-term with Star Wars. Rebels was the first part of that plan. I see fans wanting this show to be something it's apparently not intended to be. That's a foolish endeavor. Continue to complain if you want, continue to watch the show, it doesn't matter in this case. Rebels is for the little kids, the movie is for you. ------- Hopefully Rebels will evolve as the series goes on. The Clone Wars followed a similar trajectory. Kids who are 5-6 now will be 10 or 11 if the show gets to five seasons, so the tone may shift. We'll see. Edited February 6, 2015 by CaulderBenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Comparing what we have so far of Rebels to the final season of CW? CW is better, hands down. Comparing what we have so far of Rebels to that point in the first season of CW? I'd still say CW is a bit better, but not by a wide margin, and there are definitely things about Rebels that show promise. After all, remember the first half of S1 of Clone Wars gave us such gems as "Sky-guy", "Stinky" the Hutt, and the episode "Bombad Jedi." But CW was on a real upswing in quality when it was taken off the air, so if you come to Rebels expecting it to pick up where CW left off... yeah, you'll be underwhelmed. As others have said it is clearly aimed at a younger demographic, but it is far from unbearable for older viewers. Some of the big hangups are (pretty spoiler free): (1) The Stormtroopers are depicted as pretty inept (as if Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy wasn't already a thing before this series) which I agree does strain or break suspension of disbelief at times, but I haven't seen it actually ruin any episodes. Some episodes, like Empire Day, actually seem to give them moments of competence, but on the whole they are pretty much bumbling Saturday morning cartoon bad-guys. (2) The story (at least so far) is heavily focused on the planet Lothol. Thematically I think this can end up working out in the long run if the story arc of the series shows these characters starting out as their own little group and over time becoming a part of the galaxy-wide rebellion. As that happens, if we actually start to get more stories set throughout that wider galaxy, I think it will set up a nice parallel. But for now it is a bit jarring since Star Wars always featured a lot of planet-hopping, particularly in the Clone Wars. Having too many cameos and major events that just happen to occur on Lothol is a strain on suspension of disbelief. (Although to be fair, the old EU sure did seem to have a lot happening on Tatooine and Hoth for those planets being so out-of-the-way - overusing a setting is hardly a Rebels-only issue.) (3) [Character X] is annoying/underdeveloped/etc. Ezra can be annoying, but IMO isn't nearly as bad as I was worried he would be - and I think he is significantly less annoying than Ahsoka was at this point in the Clone Wars (remember her "Sky-guy" phase, not her "The Wrong Jedi" arc at the end of Season 5), he's just more prevalent than Ahsoka was. Sabine and Hera are still pretty underdeveloped, and that is something I hope gets rectified sooner than later. Overall, I actually like that this series is focused on original characters, but it does start it at something of a disadvantage since we aren't going in with lead characters like Obi-Wan and Anakin already established. (4) The art style: Love it, hate it, or accept it, it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (2) The story (at least so far) is heavily focused on the planet Lothol. Thematically I think this can end up working out in the long run if the story arc of the series shows these characters starting out as their own little group and over time becoming a part of the galaxy-wide rebellion. As that happens, if we actually start to get more stories set throughout that wider galaxy, I think it will set up a nice parallel. But for now it is a bit jarring since Star Wars always featured a lot of planet-hopping, particularly in the Clone Wars. Having too many cameos and major events that just happen to occur on Lothol is a strain on suspension of disbelief. (Although to be fair, the old EU sure did seem to have a lot happening on Tatooine.I wouldn't get your hopes up, we are what 10 episodes in? And there have been plenty of opportunities to visit other worlds, the Jedi Temple for example could have easily been on another planet, but it was conveniently on Lothal. I'm convinced that they just can't afford to animate other planets, at least not in a big way, which is a real shame. But yeah they can only take it so far, so I hope we see some proper new planets soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't get your hopes up, we are what 10 episodes in? And there have been plenty of opportunities to visit other worlds, the Jedi Temple for example could have easily been on another planet, but it was conveniently on Lothal. I'm convinced that they just can't afford to animate other planets, at least not in a big way, which is a real shame. But yeah they can only take it so far, so I hope we see some proper new planets soon. Don't get me wrong, I certainly believe that a major reason we're on Lothol so much is because of budgetary constraints and how it is cheaper to reuse the same set-pieces instead of creating new ones. I'm just saying I can see them turning that disadvantage into an advantage for the overall story arc if they use it to parallel the cast moving into a 'bigger world' of the rebellion over time as we also begin to see more locations in future seasons. A big part of storytelling in any visual medium is working within limitations (often budgetary ones), and critics and creators both have commented that oftentimes the process of grappling with and responding to those constraints (when it's done by good writers / directors / editors / animators / etc.) ends up producing a better product in the end. Edited February 6, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Comparing what we have so far of Rebels to the final season of CW? CW is better, hands down. Comparing what we have so far of Rebels to that point in the first season of CW? I'd still say CW is a bit better, but not by a wide margin, and there are definitely things about Rebels that show promise. After all, remember the first half of S1 of Clone Wars gave us such gems as "Sky-guy", "Stinky" the Hutt, and the episode "Bombad Jedi." But CW was on a real upswing in quality when it was taken off the air, so if you come to Rebels expecting it to pick up where CW left off... yeah, you'll be underwhelmed. As others have said it is clearly aimed at a younger demographic, but it is far from unbearable for older viewers. Some of the big hangups are (pretty spoiler free): (1) The Stormtroopers are depicted as pretty inept (as if Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy wasn't already a thing before this series) which I agree does strain or break suspension of disbelief at times, but I haven't seen it actually ruin any episodes. Some episodes, like Empire Day, actually seem to give them moments of competence, but on the whole they are pretty much bumbling Saturday morning cartoon bad-guys. Tbh at this point, I'm just saying the Stormtroopers are just jobbing and of course main chars being protected by plot armor. Because in no way shape or form, were Stormtroopers EVER inept in the movies, if people actually took in the scenes they watched. Which is funny, because as I see it. Lucas actually made the nameless bad guys actually a legit force in the movies, compared to other movies with bad guys who miss their targets because of plot and were incompetent. Lucas actually wove in reasons as to WHY Stormtroopers were missing, not just because and then when the gloves came off, Stormtroopers were actually doing damage. Edited February 7, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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