AP DPS help

[Kyovarde]

I just picked up my 4 piece and now I'm consistently breaking 4k (finally), but I want to push my numbers higher.

 

http://imgur.com/UGIVlch

 

My stats are 3646 Aim, 1194 Power, 779 Accuracy, 230 Crit, 444 Surge, 435 Alacrity. I used a Stim for my parse, but no Adrenal.

[TACeMossie]

I just picked up my 4 piece and now I'm consistently breaking 4k (finally), but I want to push my numbers higher.

 

http://imgur.com/UGIVlch

 

My stats are 3646 Aim, 1194 Power, 779 Accuracy, 230 Crit, 444 Surge, 435 Alacrity. I used a Stim for my parse, but no Adrenal.

 

Gear wise, I'd drop 1-2 surge enhancements and put em in Alacrity or Acc enhancements (if Acc enhancements, then swap some Acc augments for Power ones).

 

That also looks like its using a lot of A-mods and Comm Enhancements, so I'd try swap them for Unlettered Mods & Crafted or Token Enhancements for a lot more Power/Crit to work with.

 

For the parse itself though:

 

Rail Shot: You Should have used about 21-22 of them, however the parse you provided only has 19 uses of it.

Rocket Punch: You should have used 14-15 of them, however the parse you provided only has 12 uses of it

Thermal Detonator: You should have used 9-10 of them, however the parse you provided only has 8 uses of it.

Energy Burst. You should have used it 6 times, the parse provided only has 5.

 

End result - Your APM is a little low. Get that up, and it will also improve your DPS.

 

Another thing to note is: Do it on the 1 mill dummy. It gets more accurate results, and you can use Battle Focus twice (well if you're using the old 2-piece set bonus ignore the second half of this sentence)

Edited February 2, 2015 by TACeMossie

[Aienir]

Just curious, in 186/192 mix with only 1 implant and 1 piece being 192 operation gear, what should a person be parsing? I can reach around 3.3k with a lot of messing up, and by messing up I mean hitting like 80% heat by accident.

 

Also, something I noticed, I end up waiting with the Thermal Detonator when Explosive Fuel is about to come up off cooldown the second time due to wanting to do the whole opener again (TD > EF > EB > RS > RP > RS with all the shoulder rockets). Should I not be holding off that TD for a few GCDs and not care if it isn't in the EF window? same with the EB?

[Kyovarde]

Just curious, in 186/192 mix with only 1 implant and 1 piece being 192 operation gear, what should a person be parsing? I can reach around 3.3k with a lot of messing up, and by messing up I mean hitting like 80% heat by accident.

 

Also, something I noticed, I end up waiting with the Thermal Detonator when Explosive Fuel is about to come up off cooldown the second time due to wanting to do the whole opener again (TD > EF > EB > RS > RP > RS with all the shoulder rockets). Should I not be holding off that TD for a few GCDs and not care if it isn't in the EF window? same with the EB?

 

High parses for characters ONLY in the new 186 gear, no operation pieces, no set pieces, but optimized.

 

Vengeance Juggernaut - 3790

Lethality Operative - 3705

Sharpshooter Gunslinger - 3650~

 

I think every class is capable of hitting 3500+ in entry level gear.

[Aienir]

High parses for characters ONLY in the new 186 gear, no operation pieces, no set pieces, but optimized.

 

Vengeance Juggernaut - 3790

Lethality Operative - 3705

Sharpshooter Gunslinger - 3650~

 

I think every class is capable of hitting 3500+ in entry level gear.

 

That with decent ping? I'm at around 250 on the server I play. I'm sure I can hit higher on the 1 mill dummy, but IDK about 300 more DPS.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Aienir

[Kyovarde]

I'm usually around 60-100

[TACeMossie]

Just curious, in 186/192 mix with only 1 implant and 1 piece being 192 operation gear, what should a person be parsing? I can reach around 3.3k with a lot of messing up, and by messing up I mean hitting like 80% heat by accident.

 

Also, something I noticed, I end up waiting with the Thermal Detonator when Explosive Fuel is about to come up off cooldown the second time due to wanting to do the whole opener again (TD > EF > EB > RS > RP > RS with all the shoulder rockets). Should I not be holding off that TD for a few GCDs and not care if it isn't in the EF window? same with the EB?

 

Well when 3.0 first launched and I was in optimized 186s (unlettered mods, so effectively 192 A-Mods) I was hitting 3.8k. on average So a little over that if you have higher armorings. This is with 200 ping BTW

 

Also, on delaying TD for Explosive Fuel - TD has a 15 second cooldown, EF lasts 15 seconds. You're gonna get one in explosive fuel anyway regardless of when you activate Explosive Fuel.

 

Also technically the opener is (assuming set bonus's, so do it this way anyway to get in the habit of it):

 

Preload PPA with Flame Sweep

 

TD -> RB -> RS -> RP -> MB -> [Adrenals, Relics, Explosive Fuel, SC Spam] EB -> RS -> MB -> RS -> RP -> TD -> MB -> RS ->...

Edited February 2, 2015 by TACeMossie

[Aienir]

Mhm, yea I have 0 set bonus. Completely in comm gear and only optimized for accuracy. Using the really really bad comm enhancements too.

 

3.8? Damn. I'll have to step up the game I guess. And stop delaying the TD/EB. Yea that's the opening I use all the time, I just mean't without the RB for the second EF. Also, I was unstimmed, no adrenal and only half augmented for power.

 

500 DPS I guess is not bad to be behind taking all that in. Wonder if I can make that up.

[TACeMossie]

Mhm, yea I have 0 set bonus. Completely in comm gear and only optimized for accuracy. Using the really really bad comm enhancements too.

 

3.8? Damn. I'll have to step up the game I guess. And stop delaying the TD/EB. Yea that's the opening I use all the time, I just mean't without the RB for the second EF. Also, I was unstimmed, no adrenal and only half augmented for power.

 

500 DPS I guess is not bad to be behind taking all that in. Wonder if I can make that up.

 

EB can be delayed, so long as its delayed for RP or TD or the set bonus. The killer is delaying RP/TD and delaying EB for RS

[Aienir]

EB can be delayed, so long as its delayed for RP or TD or the set bonus. The killer is delaying RP/TD and delaying EB for RS

 

If I was using Star Parse, what could I upload to show you what I may be doing wrong for the parse?

 

Edit - Yea, IDK what I'm doing wrong. I've got 43.7 APM, hitting 3600 on the 500 and 3.4 on the 1 million.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Aienir

[TACeMossie]

If I was using Star Parse, what could I upload to show you what I may be doing wrong for the parse?

 

Edit - Yea, IDK what I'm doing wrong. I've got 43.7 APM, hitting 3600 on the 500 and 3.4 on the 1 million.

 

Well my response will be heavily delayed (about 11 hours), but go to the damage tab, and only have the box ticked that reads "Per Ability"

 

I'll also need your Alacrity (% or rating its up to you)

Edited February 2, 2015 by TACeMossie

[Aienir]

Well my response will be heavily delayed (about 11 hours), but go to the damage tab, and only have the box ticked that reads "Per Ability"

 

I'll also need your Alacrity (% or rating its up to you)

 

I have 0 alacrity total.

 

500K Dummy Parse - 3627 DPS

1 Million Dummy Parse - 3412 DPS

 

Thanks for all your help =)

[xxSHOONYxx]

TACe what's your opinion on running the old dread master set bonus for AP? I would think that 8% increase in railshot damage would outweigh an auto crit every third EB.

 

Of course that means needing 2 sets of gear

[TACeMossie]

TACe what's your opinion on running the old dread master set bonus for AP? I would think that 8% increase in railshot damage would outweigh an auto crit every third EB.

 

Of course that means needing 2 sets of gear

 

The 2 sets are pretty much comparable. Note that Marked + Power Bracer stack additively with the set bonus, so its not a full 8% boost. End result, you get about a 2.3% DPS boost from a combination of the old 2 and 4-piece set bonus, while the new set bonus is about a 1.43% DPS boost from the 6-piece and a 0.15% DPS boost from the 4-piece (best case scenario) - though note that the 4-piece will typically mean you wont drop into the low heat vent zone when you normally would, so it is capable of far more than that.

 

In the end, I found that the DPS between the 2 was about the same, so you may as well go and grab that new set bonus.

 

I have 0 alacrity total.

 

500K Dummy Parse - 3627 DPS

1 Million Dummy Parse - 3412 DPS

 

Thanks for all your help =)

 

There's a lot to look at. First off, I'll be focusing on the 1-mill parse.

 

The first thing I noticed was the APM was a little low. Upon further investigation, you used 177 GCDs, when the parse lasted 196 GCDs. If you did things faster, that 1 Mill parse would have done 3765 DPS.

 

So based off that number of GCDs used, you should have had:

 

43 Rail Shots

11 Energy Bursts

29 Rocket Punches

17 Thermal Detonators

 

As well as some Mag Blasts, Unloads, the single RB you had, and a few Rapid Shots.

 

Even with that, you were 4 behind in rail shots (meaning also 1 behind in energy Bursts). You were also 4 behind in Rocket Punches, though its good to note your TD usage was every 15 seconds before accounting for lost GCDs. Thats most likely what actually cost you some rail shots.

 

Regardless, the way to improve your DPS is simple. Focus on a Rail Shot every 4 GCDs, a Rocket Punch every 6, and a TD every 10, and use the remaining GCDs for whatever you want.

 

A typical 18 second block will be something like:

 

Energy Burst/Rail Shot/Mag Blast ->

Thermal Detonator/Rail Shot/Energy Burst/Rapid Shots ->

Rocket Punch ->

Thermal Detonator/Rail Shot ->

Energy Burst/Rail Shot/Mag Blast ->

Thermal Detonator//Rail Shot/Energy Burst/Rapid Shots ->

Mag Blast ->

Thermal Detonator/Rail Shot ->

Rocket Punch ->

Thermal Detonator/Rail Shot/Rapid Shots ->

Mag Blast ->

Thermal Detonator/Energy Burst/Rail Shot ->

 

Each GCD was pretty much written out in a priority list there. Doing it that way you won't end up running out of heat ever, and it should increase your DPS exponentially. Of course, if you reach a point where you can go Mag Blast -> Rapid Shots, feel free to replace it with Unload until 3.1.1 comes around. Its better with TSO though.

Edited February 3, 2015 by TACeMossie

[Aienir]

There's a lot to look at. First off, I'll be focusing on the 1-mill parse.

 

The first thing I noticed was the APM was a little low. Upon further investigation, you used 177 GCDs, when the parse lasted 196 GCDs. If you did things faster, that 1 Mill parse would have done 3765 DPS.

 

So based off that number of GCDs used, you should have had:

 

43 Rail Shots

11 Energy Bursts

29 Rocket Punches

17 Thermal Detonators

 

As well as some Mag Blasts, Unloads, the single RB you had, and a few Rapid Shots.

 

Even with that, you were 4 behind in rail shots (meaning also 1 behind in energy Bursts). You were also 4 behind in Rocket Punches, though its good to note your TD usage was every 15 seconds before accounting for lost GCDs. Thats most likely what actually cost you some rail shots.

 

Regardless, the way to improve your DPS is simple. Focus on a Rail Shot every 4 GCDs, a Rocket Punch every 6, and a TD every 10, and use the remaining GCDs for whatever you want.

 

A typical 18 second block will be something like:

 

Energy Burst/Rail Shot/Mag Blast ->

Thermal Detonator/Rail Shot/Energy Burst/Rapid Shots ->

Rocket Punch ->

Thermal Detonator/Rail Shot ->

Energy Burst/Rail Shot/Mag Blast ->

Thermal Detonator//Rail Shot/Energy Burst/Rapid Shots ->

Mag Blast ->

Thermal Detonator/Rail Shot ->

Rocket Punch ->

Thermal Detonator/Rail Shot/Rapid Shots ->

Mag Blast ->

Thermal Detonator/Energy Burst/Rail Shot ->

 

Each GCD was pretty much written out in a priority list there. Doing it that way you won't end up running out of heat ever, and it should increase your DPS exponentially. Of course, if you reach a point where you can go Mag Blast -> Rapid Shots, feel free to replace it with Unload until 3.1.1 comes around. Its better with TSO though.

 

First, thanks for all that info and taking the time to look through that. So it seems my main issue is low APM leading to missing GCD's offsetting the rest of the parse into losing Rail Shots/Energy Bursts/Rocket Punches.

 

If that parse would have hit 3765 that would line up with your 3.8K DPS you mentioned earlier. Good to know I'm on the right track.

 

One thing I don't understand (blame it on being early and no coffee) you said that my TD usage every 15 seconds lead to my losing some Rail Shots? Is that because I used it as if I wasn't missing GCD's, but because I did miss some GCD's it lead to missing Rail Shot?

 

The way I've been parsing/DPS'ing has been:

 

Opener

Thermal Detonator > Retractable Blade > Explosive Fuel > Start Shoulder Cannon Spam > Rail Shot > Rocket Punch > Energy Burst > Rail Shot > Magnetic Blast > Rail Shot

 

Then I'd go into a priority system:

1. Thermal Detonator
   
2. Rocket Punch
   
3. Rail Shot/Energy Burst
   
4. Magnetic Blast
   

 

The only time I delay using Rail Shot is if Thermal Detonator or Rocket Punch is off cooldown or I have a fully stacked Energy Burst. Offensive cooldowns like Vent Heat is only used with Unload and Thermal Sensor Override is only used on Energy Burst or Thermal Detonator.

 

I'll try upping my APM. Maybe some alacrity might help, I'll see if I have 1 or 2 enhancements lying around.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Aienir

[TACeMossie]

One thing I don't understand (blame it on being early and no coffee) you said that my TD usage every 15 seconds lead to my losing some Rail Shots? Is that because I used it as if I wasn't missing GCD's, but because I did miss some GCD's it lead to missing Rail Shot?

 

Exactly!

 

As for this bit:

 

Offensive cooldowns like Vent Heat is only used with Unload and Thermal Sensor Override is only used on Energy Burst or Thermal Detonator.

 

Come 3.1.1, Unload won't even exist on your powertech, so you may as well get used to not using it. Though if that doesn't matter to you, use Thermal Sensor Override on Unload, as Unload is 24 heat, compared to the 20 heat of Energy Burst and the 15 Heat of Thermal Detonator. Otherwise, you should always use TSO on Energy Burst, as the extra 6 seconds on the cooldown are definately worth the extra 5 heat vented (with Liquid Cooling, a delay of up to 18 seconds is good for a 5 heat gain - and without it, the delay can be up to 30 seconds D:)

Edited February 3, 2015 by TACeMossie

[Aienir]

Exactly!

 

As for this bit:

 

 

 

Come 3.1.1, Unload won't even exist on your powertech, so you may as well get used to not using it. Though if that doesn't matter to you, use Thermal Sensor Override on Unload, as Unload is 24 heat, compared to the 20 heat of Energy Burst and the 15 Heat of Thermal Detonator. Otherwise, you should always use TSO on Energy Burst, as the extra 6 seconds on the cooldown are definately worth the extra 5 heat vented (with Liquid Cooling, a delay of up to 18 seconds is good for a 5 heat gain)

 

Awesome so I did get it lol.

 

I don't use Unload or try not to, once I saw those patch notes. So APM is my issue, not the rotation then. I don't actually use Liquid Cooling (should I be?). I normally use Bracer Propellant, Engulfing Flames, Pneumatic Boots, Hitman, Torque Boosters, Shield Cannon, and Overdrive. I sometimes switch Hitman or Pneumatic Boots for Sonic Rebounder.

 

I also didn't 100% understand that 18 second block as I can't seem to make GCD's line up. For example,

 

Energy Burst > Thermal Detonator > Rocket Punch > Rail Shot (Can't be PPA) > Mag Blast > Rail Shot (has to be PPA) > Mag Blast > Can't do either Thermal Detonator or Rail Shot so Rapid Shots? > Rocket Punch > Rapid Shots > Mag Blast > Rail Shot (PPA)

 

I mean, either way, I seem to only have an APM issue, so I have to work on that (don't have a clue how to do that lol) but I figure you're conveying some important info here that I don't want to miss.

[TACeMossie]

Awesome so I did get it lol.

 

I don't use Unload or try not to, once I saw those patch notes. So APM is my issue, not the rotation then. I don't actually use Liquid Cooling (should I be?). I normally use Bracer Propellant, Engulfing Flames, Pneumatic Boots, Hitman, Torque Boosters, Shield Cannon, and Overdrive. I sometimes switch Hitman or Pneumatic Boots for Sonic Rebounder.

 

For dummy parsing, you definately want the extra heat from Liquid Cooling. Depending on your healers depends if you want Shield Cannon in a raid, but i've managed to phase out of using it in all the fights we have on progression right now. The only time I don't take liquid cooling is for Underlurker, as I take Electro Shield instead (because Energy Shield is up for pretty much every add phase, allowing ~200 extra DPS).

 

A generic utility setup I would use is:

 

Bracer Propellant

Pneumatic Boots

Reflective Armor

 

Torque Boosters

Sonic Rebounder (I abuse the hell out of this in every fight)

 

Overdrive (Must have IMO)

Liquid Cooling

 

I also didn't 100% understand that 18 second block as I can't seem to make GCD's line up. For example,

 

Energy Burst > Thermal Detonator > Rocket Punch > Rail Shot (Can't be PPA) > Mag Blast > Rail Shot (has to be PPA) > Mag Blast > Can't do either Thermal Detonator or Rail Shot so Rapid Shots? > Rocket Punch > Rapid Shots > Mag Blast > Rail Shot (PPA)

 

I mean, either way, I seem to only have an APM issue, so I have to work on that (don't have a clue how to do that lol) but I figure you're conveying some important info here that I don't want to miss.

 

It seems you forgot Rocket Punch can proc PPA. Basically, as you enter each cooldown, the order from Left to Right is the order that you would use each ability.

 

So for example:

 

TD ->

RB -> RS -> RP -> MB ->

EB -> RS -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> TD -> MB -> RS ->

 

RpS -> MB -> RP -> RS ->

EB -> MB -> MB -> TD ->

RP -> RS -> MB -> RS ->

 

RpS -> MB -> RP -> RS ->

MB -> TD -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> EB -> MB -> RS ->

 

RpS -> MB -> RP -> TD ->

RS -> MB -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> RpS -> MB -> RS ->

 

MB -> TD -> RP -> EB ->

RS -> MB -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> RpS -> MB -> RS ->

 

RpS -> MB -> RP -> RS ->

EB -> MB -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> RpS -> MB -> TD ->

 

RS -> MB -> RP -> RS ->

MB -> RpS -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> TD -> MB -> EB ->

 

RS -> MB -> RP -> RS ->

MB -> RpS -> MB -> TD ->

RP -> RS -> MB -> RS ->

 

EB -> MB -> RP -> RS ->

MB -> TD -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> RpS -> MB -> RS ->

 

And on and on and on and on and on and on and...

[Aienir]

I didn't forget, I made a different mistake XD

 

I treated the proc for PPA to only be procced on the activation of the 4th GCD not on the end of the 3rd GCD AFTER the previous Rail Shot PPA proc. Basically, instead of every 4th GCD after a Rail Shot being a Rail Shot (save where TD/RP comes off cooldown) I made it every 5th.

 

What I was thinking:

Rail Shot (PPA) > Ability 1 > Ability 2 > Ability 3 > Ability 4 > Rail Shot (PPA)

 

What it should be:

Rail Shot (PPA) > Ability 1 > Ability 2 > Ability 3 > Rail Shot (PPA)

 

From your stuff:

TD ->

RB -> RS -> RP -> MB ->

EB -> RS -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> TD -> MB -> RS->

 

RpS -> MB -> RP -> RS ->

EB -> MB -> MB -> TD ->

RP -> RS -> MB -> RS ->

 

RpS -> MB -> RP -> RS->

MB -> TD -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> EB -> MB -> RS ->

Edited February 3, 2015 by Aienir

[TACeMossie]

I didn't forget, I made a different mistake XD

 

I treated the proc for PPA to only be procced on the activation of the 4th GCD not on the end of the 3rd GCD AFTER the previous Rail Shot PPA proc. Basically, instead of every 4th GCD after a Rail Shot being a Rail Shot (save where TD/RP comes off cooldown) I made it every 5th.

 

What I was thinking:

Rail Shot (PPA) > Ability 1 > Ability 2 > Ability 3 > Ability 4 > Rail Shot (PPA)

 

What it should be:

Rail Shot (PPA) > Ability 1 > Ability 2 > Ability 3 > Rail Shot (PPA)

 

From your stuff:

TD ->

RB -> RS -> RP -> MB ->

EB -> RS -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> TD -> MB -> RS->

 

RpS -> MB -> RP -> RS ->

EB -> MB -> MB -> TD ->

RP -> RS -> MB -> RS ->

 

RpS -> MB -> RP -> RS->

MB -> TD -> MB -> RS ->

RP -> EB -> MB -> RS ->

 

Ouch. No wonder you were so far behind on PPA procs. I personally blame Innovative Ordinance for being nerfed to 7.5 seconds between procs.

[Aienir]

Ouch. No wonder you were so far behind on PPA procs. I personally blame Innovative Ordinance for being nerfed to 7.5 seconds between procs.

 

I didn't parse with that mindset though, or at least didn't think I do, was thinking every 6 seconds I should have a Rail Shot up/need to use. Just had that thinking when looking at your blocks.

 

I've never for my 3 years of playing ToR played a Commando/Mercenary XD I have 3 classes I just don't/refuse to play, Mercenary/Commando, Operative/Scoundrel and Assassin/Shadow.

 

Also, good to know about the utilities. I don't really need the Shoulder Cannon heal for PvE, just have it from PvP'ing. I'll parse from now on using that utility setup.

 

Would you say Alacrity would help the APM? I'm not clicking anything as it's all bound to my Naga + some keyboard bindings.

[TACeMossie]

I didn't parse with that mindset though, or at least didn't think I do, was thinking every 6 seconds I should have a Rail Shot up/need to use. Just had that thinking when looking at your blocks.

 

I've never for my 3 years of playing ToR played a Commando/Mercenary XD I have 3 classes I just don't/refuse to play, Mercenary/Commando, Operative/Scoundrel and Assassin/Shadow.

 

Also, good to know about the utilities. I don't really need the Shoulder Cannon heal for PvE, just have it from PvP'ing. I'll parse from now on using that utility setup.

 

Would you say Alacrity would help the APM? I'm not clicking anything as it's all bound to my Naga + some keyboard bindings.

 

It will improve the APM, but all it will mean is you'll have even more GCDs to work with D:

 

E.g. I currently have a ridiculous 6.5% Alacrity. This means in a fight that goes for 3:30, I would have about 50 APM. A person with 0 Alacrity in that situation would have 47.4 APM. In other words, my high alacrity means I can squeeze out another 2.6 GCDs every minute.

[Aienir]

It will improve the APM, but all it will mean is you'll have even more GCDs to work with D:

 

E.g. I currently have a ridiculous 6.5% Alacrity. This means in a fight that goes for 3:30, I would have about 50 APM. A person with 0 Alacrity in that situation would have 47.4 APM. In other words, my high alacrity means I can squeeze out another 2.6 GCDs every minute.

 

Ech, no alacrity for me then! Not until I can hit 47 APM. I normally hit around 43 APM so I'm not too far off, but IDK what to do save practice to get more.

 

Thanks for the help!

[Kyovarde]

It will improve the APM, but all it will mean is you'll have even more GCDs to work with D:

 

E.g. I currently have a ridiculous 6.5% Alacrity. This means in a fight that goes for 3:30, I would have about 50 APM. A person with 0 Alacrity in that situation would have 47.4 APM. In other words, my high alacrity means I can squeeze out another 2.6 GCDs every minute.

 

I had about 5% Alacrity and 49.4 APM yet you told me I needed to improve my APM? ***

[TACeMossie]

I had about 5% Alacrity and 49.4 APM yet you told me I needed to improve my APM? ***

 

To be fair, I was assuming a 1- mill dummy parse. APM for PTs/VGs spikes at certain areas, such as immediately after Shoulder Cannon. E.g. your parse should have had 52.7 APM, due to the second SC Spam.

 

You've got 3.3 APM to catch up with

Edited February 3, 2015 by TACeMossie