hachibushu Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If you can't afford $15 a month for fun, you likely have other issues altogether. But hey, if you feel like gaming all day is preferable to say, being able to afford your bills - go for it. I'll just say this much...most folks I know who are truly struggling with money, have a lot more on their minds than the F2P version of a video game. I'm not saying me. I'm just having empathy for other situations, and the realization that there are other situations, and that I don't know each and every one of them. Is that such a foreign concept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oJebuso Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The restrictions on F2P players need to go away. Other games are doing away with restrictions and are doing just fine. Less restrictions can only help grow your player base at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The restrictions on F2P players need to go away. Other games are doing away with restrictions and are doing just fine. Less restrictions can only help grow your player base at this point. The main thing is that the only thing worth paying $15/month for is the story, in the sense that you're basically paying to go to an interactive movie. The rest of the game is...really bad, compared to a lot of other MMOs. inb4 'hey djiini why do you pay to play it if you think the game is bad even though you just said why you play it in the first part of the sentence' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JainiaDral Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Ah yes, expecting people to act with a vague semblance of personal responsibility is so horribly judgemental. One might argue that refusing to spend $15 per month for a game, when single-player games of the same caliber can be found on Steam for a single payment of the same or less, is personal and fiscal responsibility. Hypothetically, of course. Edited February 3, 2015 by JainiaDral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The restrictions on F2P players need to go away. Other games are doing away with restrictions and are doing just fine. Less restrictions can only help grow your player base at this point. Perhaps, but EA has said that the majority of CM sales are to Subs, not F2P players... If they remove the restrictions, then why sub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikknasty Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 I skimmed through and read a lot but not most. I am the original poster so I just want to make a quick point when it comes to the credits that people talked about. 1, f2p or pay will never stop credit sellers. its a free game and can always make 100+ accounts. even make accounts to spam but not the main 1 that farms or holds credits. so there is a spot where the credit limit doesn't matter. 3. more cartel market items would sell. why? because free players would be able to hold enough credits to be able to buy the expensive mounts, weapons, armor, and EVEN UNLOCKABLES. more credits to the subs and more money to BW when the subs buy the items to sell... so in my eyes any argument made about the credit limit and the spammers is just horse ****. if you really wanted to fix the spammer problem, take out the cap on credits but do not allow F2P to use global chats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I skimmed through and read a lot but not most. I am the original poster so I just want to make a quick point when it comes to the credits that people talked about. 1, f2p or pay will never stop credit sellers. its a free game and can always make 100+ accounts. even make accounts to spam but not the main 1 that farms or holds credits. so there is a spot where the credit limit doesn't matter. so in my eyes any argument made about the credit limit and the spammers is just horse ****. if you really wanted to fix the spammer problem, take out the cap on credits but do not allow F2P to use global chats. Yeah... honestly I don't care about F2P limits except regarding credit spammers. If decreasing the limits increased the spam I get (already considerable) then I'm against it. Otherwise I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 One might argue that refusing to spend $15 per month for a game, when single-player games of the same caliber can be found on Steam for a single payment of the same or less, is personal and fiscal responsibility. Hypothetically, of course. And that fine, then go play those "other games"... What people are asking for is to have their cake and eat it too, they don't want to pay for a sub, but they still want to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I skimmed through and read a lot but not most. I am the original poster so I just want to make a quick point when it comes to the credits that people talked about. 1, f2p or pay will never stop credit sellers. its a free game and can always make 100+ accounts. even make accounts to spam but not the main 1 that farms or holds credits. so there is a spot where the credit limit doesn't matter. 3. more cartel market items would sell. why? because free players would be able to hold enough credits to be able to buy the expensive mounts, weapons, armor, and EVEN UNLOCKABLES. more credits to the subs and more money to BW when the subs buy the items to sell... so in my eyes any argument made about the credit limit and the spammers is just horse ****. if you really wanted to fix the spammer problem, take out the cap on credits but do not allow F2P to use global chats. If you remove the credit cap, I suspect a third of the subs would unsub the next day... It is probably the only thing keeping a LOT of people subbing... everything else is unlockable, except that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JainiaDral Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 And that fine, then go play those "other games"... What people are asking for is to have their cake and eat it too, they don't want to pay for a sub, but they still want to play the game. If I wasn't subbed, I wouldn't be posting, would I? That's not to say that on some level, I don't still find it ridiculous to basically "lease" the functionality in this game on a monthly basis. If you're f2p, your game fundamentally isn't functional. But that's irrelevant to the point I was making in my post, which was replying to a poster's unwarranted criticism of f2p players' lifestyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If I wasn't subbed, I wouldn't be posting, would I? That's not to say that on some level, I don't still find it ridiculous to basically "lease" the functionality in this game on a monthly basis. If you're f2p, your game fundamentally isn't functional. How is that different from WoW and the monthly sub there? They don't even have a F2P option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtJeremy Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The restrictions on F2P players need to go away. Other games are doing away with restrictions and are doing just fine. Less restrictions can only help grow your player base at this point. There needs to be some sort of bonus for subbing apart from 600 cartel coins. Otherwise there is no incentive to sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JainiaDral Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 How is that different from WoW and the monthly sub there? They don't even have a F2P option... Heck if I know. I have no interest in playing WoW. I, like many I've seen on the forums, am here for the Star Wars and for Bioware's storytelling. What I do know is that having started as an F2P player, the gameplay was utterly nonfunctional and painful and irritating. It's also ridiculous that Preferred players who purchased SOR can't enjoy most of the item rewards they've paid for because they can't open boxes. Sorry, but that restriction's just petty, as are most of them. Can't hide your hat. Can't match your mismatched armor. Can't buy a stronghold, even if you have the credits. Can't fully participate in chat. Can't use half of your quest rewards, but they're still there, with an ad to torment you. Someone else earlier proposed a "carrot" approach to subbing rather than whapping F2P and Preferred players over the head with a baseball bat. I'm not sure why so many on these forums would be against that, but if anyone cares to explain their perspective in rational, factual terms, I'm game for understanding why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 There needs to be some sort of bonus for subbing apart from 600 cartel coins. Otherwise there is no incentive to sub. The only real incentive to sub, from my personal point of view, is the credit cap. Everything else has an unlock or a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 What I do know is that having started as an F2P player, the gameplay was utterly nonfunctional and painful and irritating. I don't think it is "nonfunctional", since we have several guild members who play almost every day and they are not subs... Someone else earlier proposed a "carrot" approach to subbing rather than whapping F2P and Preferred players over the head with a baseball bat. I'm not sure why so many on these forums would be against that, but if anyone cares to explain their perspective in rational, factual terms, I'm game for understanding why. The game was designed for subs only, F2P was added on. The option existed to either boost subs or nerf F2P. They made the decision to nerf F2P. It would take some reworking to change it now, and I just don't see them doing it. If they did, I think they risk losing a lot of their remaining subs. I do understand your points, but that ship has sailed. This isn't a decision that was made last week, it is approaching 2 years ago that F2P was designed... and it is also two dev teams ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) The game was designed for subs only, F2P was added on. The option existed to either boost subs or nerf F2P. They made the decision to nerf F2P. It would take some reworking to change it now, and I just don't see them doing it. If they did, I think they risk losing a lot of their remaining subs. I do understand your points, but that ship has sailed. This isn't a decision that was made last week, it is approaching 2 years ago that F2P was designed... and it is also two dev teams ago... We better be careful before they undocumentedly nerf the amount of Cartel Certs that F2Ps can get. Edited February 3, 2015 by Djiini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The only real incentive to sub, from my personal point of view, is the credit cap. Everything else has an unlock or a pass. no it doesn't. accepting quest rewards - all quest rewards? subscription only. ability to use all 6 companions to craft, higher chance of a crit and ability to queue up crafting instead of crafting one item at a time? subscription only. rated warzones? subscription only. free respecs? subscription only ability to purchase legacy perks etc with credits? subscription only (I actualy don't mind it that f2p has to buy those with cartel coins only, with credit cost being subscription perk) if you are regularly buying ops passes with cartel coins? its cheaper to subscribe if you are using more than one character. ability to MAIL credits? subscription only. ability to mail more than one item at a time? subscription only. shorter cooldown on bind timer on items bought from cartel market? subscription. fun part is - if you remove some of those f2p restrictions without adding any perks to the sub - you still get plenty of subscription perks. and again, I say... if this game is claiming to be f2p? it has a very crappy way of going about it. and the sad thing is.... given how absolutely ****** f2p is, bioware is just milking subscribers for more and sooner or later.. something gotta give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) no it doesn't. accepting quest rewards - all quest rewards? subscription only. Fair enough, but the rewards that you can't take, I no longer care about. Note: I DID say "from my personal point of view", so my statement was accurate, the only thing I DO care about is the credit cap. I can unlock purple gear and the toolbars and a bunch of other stuff... ability to use all 6 companions to craft, higher chance of a crit and ability to queue up crafting instead of crafting one item at a time? subscription only. True, but beyond a given point, who cares? I craft, because... well... I'm not sure why, I sure don't need the money... Not being able to really craft anymore would not affect the game itself and actually would probably be doing me a favor. rated warzones? subscription only. Don't play em, 4x4 arenas don't interest me free respecs? subscription only I can count on one hand the number of times I've respected in the past year. ability to purchase legacy perks etc with credits? subscription only I have them all already. if you are regularly buying ops passes with cartel coins? its cheaper to subscribe if you are using more than one character. Well sure, but they are also found on the GTN... I have enough credits to buy ops passes until the game shuts down. And it doesn't really matter, it is a rare week that I do more than 3 ops anyway. ability to MAIL credits? subscription only. True, but this one isn't the end of the world, there are ways around it... ability to mail more than one item at a time? subscription only. Who cares? Legacy Storage for the win. shorter cooldown on bind timer on items bought from cartel market? subscription. I will not spend another dime on the CM anyway, since it seems they will do nothing about the slot machine. fun part is - if you remove some of those f2p restrictions without adding any perks to the sub - you still get plenty of subscription perks. I suspect the only thing in that list that long time players will care about is the credit cap... With enough credits, the rest doesn't really matter... Edited February 3, 2015 by Heat-Wave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 long time players with a whole bunch of stuff to their name are NOT the only people that matter, you know. MMO's need constant infusion of fresh blood to survive. moreover - those are just current benefits of subscription which is part of the problem. rather then being genuine benefits? they are removal of the stick TOR beats non subscribers with. just imagine just how much better, and more appealing the game could be if bioware stopped thinking in terms of punishments and thought in benefits instead? like... monthly gifts to subscribers, something fun and unique, something continuous, maybe even exclusive content. honestly, it looks more and more like they are thinking short term milk it now while they still can, instead of long term plans incidentally, I don't know what the hell is going on on my server, but lately, there are barely any ops passes on the GTN, and they tend to be listed for FAR above even preferred credit cap. meh. I'll just let my wallet to the talking. I would much rather give my money to the game that doesn't make me regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoverNoFighter Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 There needs to be some sort of bonus for subbing apart from 600 cartel coins. Otherwise there is no incentive to sub. That's why I proposed a permanent 12 x XP bonus for subs. It would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 That's why I proposed a permanent 12 x XP bonus for subs. It would be a start. some - many people actualy don't like 12 xp. just saying. they actualy enjoy playing the content instead of paying to skip it. so no, that bonus is not something that all subscribers would enjoy, and even if its optional, its still not something they would enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoverNoFighter Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) some - many people actualy don't like 12 xp. just saying. they actualy enjoy playing the content instead of paying to skip it. so no, that bonus is not something that all subscribers would enjoy, and even if its optional, its still not something they would enjoy. Explain to me how they wouldn't enjoy something that is optional for them to....wait for it....enjoy. Edited February 3, 2015 by LoverNoFighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobs_YourUncle Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) If I wasn't subbed, I wouldn't be posting, would I? That's not to say that on some level, I don't still find it ridiculous to basically "lease" the functionality in this game on a monthly basis. If you're f2p, your game fundamentally isn't functional. But that's irrelevant to the point I was making in my post, which was replying to a poster's unwarranted criticism of f2p players' lifestyles. Actually it is fundamentally functional at F2P. You can easily play the entire story of all the characters, participate in 2 flashpoints, 2 warzones, 2 starfighters per week. You can play every aspect of the game except crew skills beyond one skill. Bigger problem may be found at endgame 50+ you are going to have to purchase something if you want to stay as entertained maybe, but geeze, you just got to play a whole story line for free on a very high quality game. The F2P model is quite lenient as far as im concerned. Edited February 3, 2015 by Bobs_YourUncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 1. Remove some restrictions for F2P 2. Give more benefits for subscribers I think its perfect choice but... /sigh Can you give me 100% assurance that F2P will not whine about giving them those new benefits too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimRita Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I've never been a fan of locking content behind pay-walls. But I think its too late to make any serious changes to the F2P as judging by the endless repeating of discounting on old Cartel Packs, they are running out of ideas and/or haven't planned much new so spacing out the releases. But whilst a small group still pay a sub, that gravy train won't be derailed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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