Action For The Ravager's Exploit

[DurdensWrath]

Eh, it's a bit cheesy, I don't know if I'd say it's "wrong", that implies perhaps more moral weight than it deserves.

 

It certain doesn't rise to the level of outrage that some people have expressed over it.

 

If Bioware got better at testing, or actually listened during testing, things wouldn't have gotten out of hand.

[Bachannal]

I love how this is being called an exploit...

 

My thoughts:

WEEK 1: Oh man, people are getting max level gear by cheating the system! I hope the Admins do something...

AFTER WEEK 1: Well, it's not patched, guess it's not an exploit, might as well get some gear.

 

I realize I haven't been banned yet & am effectively telling on myself. However, this needs to be said. I realize that online gaming is a lot different than computer security, but an exploit is an exploit, and should be handled appropriately by the developers/system admins. Which, in this situation, that obviously wasn't what happened.

 

Early last year I was at work and got an email about Heartbleed. The data center I worked at only had 2 Information Security positions, one being myself, and the other being on vacation. I was at work for nearly 3 straight days, working to fix, or at least mitigate, an exploit that most of the world didn't even know about at the time. During that time I had a batch script running across INIP analyzing each individual request, instantly banning any IP that failed the check. I rushed to integrate a temporary fix into each individual network tier across every data hall, hoping it would work until OpenSSL released a bugfix. I only had this job 2 months when that happened.

 

THAT IS HOW YOU HANDLE AN EXPLOIT. 4 weeks this Ravagers "Exploit" was available. I know it's only a game, but as IT guys, we have a job. From my perspective Bioware failed at handling this in every way possible.

 

 

Exactly. This is how the rest of the tech industry works...why should gaming get a pass? Sure, it's not Enterprise software and they don't have SLA's to answer to like an Enterprise company, but how about just a sense of professionalism? It's like the myriad Harbinger crashes...they are STILL occurring, which means the OPs team at Bio-fail doesn't have clue one how to address it. In any other tech company those nitwits would be fired and replaced after that many server crashes. I've seen it happen quite a few times along my career.

[Darth_Wicked]

If Bioware got better at testing, or actually listened during testing, things wouldn't have gotten out of hand.

 

Obviously, especially seeing most people don't enjoy this one thing called "free will", and were forced and / or duped into partaking in the exploit.

 

Repeatedly. Over and over again.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[VincentBedok]

I also have to ask, just humor at this point... If I did the exploit 11 times, & had Cortanni/Pearl glitch 13 times. Do they cancel each other out? Because if so I am the safest person here -_-

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Exactly. When 3.0 was released, BW knew about what is now called the "Ravager's Exploit". They must have known that inevitably there will be some people who will take advantage of this exploit. Yet they did nothing about it. I'm not saying that those who participated in it should not be punished in some form, but this whole sorry mess could have been avoided. Of course it's not possible to release a game that is 100% bug free, but come on, the Ravager's Exploit was pointed out when it was on the PTS. Releasing a new expansion right before the end of the year during the holidays and not being able to do anything about it for weeks after was just poor planning.

 

Releasing an expansion where you know there are major bugs and exploits, and knowing that some people are going to participate in it, and know that eventually you may have to take the step of suspending/banning players for it, why even go there? Why not do something to prevent it from happening in the first place?

 

I've asked this many times to date but has anyone got any actual proof this existed on PTS? No one has been able to prove that it has ( most stating NDA blah blah in which case why bother stating it did to begin with ). My understanding is the "no loot" bug was the one on PTS and this is what went live and then when patched caused this current issue.

 

Now I never beta tested so could be wrong but this is the general information I've been able to gather on what actually happened.

 

Whilst it doesn't excuse Bioware for not fixing the no loot bug or keeping the eventual ravagers bug in place it does change things somewhat in that "bioware copied it from PTS to live so they must want people to do it" mentality some have shown.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

No they cannot, it's illegal for them to do anything of the sort if you're paying your bill. I've had it happen with Comcast, and they don't have a leg to stand on in terms of charging you if they do that. And they do it frequently in places like Apt. complexes where all of the cable nodes are all contained in a single box.

 

*shrug* Take your word for it, I am not about to start reading other companies ToS I have no interest in. However if there was a clause in there about the situation previously described then yes they could effectively cut you off ( the argument would be over a refund for the current paid amount if you are in advance ).

 

As for it being illegal for them to stop providing you service ... pretty sure they don't need any reason to do that as it's their service?

[Bachannal]

*shrug* Take your word for it, I am not about to start reading other companies ToS I have no interest in. However if there was a clause in there about the situation previously described then yes they could effectively cut you off ( the argument would be over a refund for the current paid amount if you are in advance ).

 

As for it being illegal for them to stop providing you service ... pretty sure they don't need any reason to do that as it's their service?

 

Let's put it this way...no sensible company would A. cancel your service or B. try and charge you for it. Sure, they likely *will* try and get you to pay, to see if you will - but you think the cable company is gonna shut you off and stop taking your money over that? If you think that, you should lay off the crack rocks, lol.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I also have to ask, just humor at this point... If I did the exploit 11 times, & had Cortanni/Pearl glitch 13 times. Do they cancel each other out? Because if so I am the safest person here -_-

 

Glitch as in not drop loot? Wouldn't one have to burn 23 lock outs for that? Easy with alt toons I guess but I think if you are able to post now it's probably not a good idea to post anything that draws attention to that you may have exploited 11 times unless I'm reading your post wrong.

 

Anyone punished thus far still can't post ( hence the seemingly quiet forum day I guess ).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Let's put it this way...no sensible company would A. cancel your service or B. try and charge you for it. Sure, they likely *will* try and get you to pay, to see if you will - but you think the cable company is gonna shut you off and stop taking your money over that? If you think that, you should lay off the crack rocks, lol.

 

That being the case and if you already know the answer perhaps it wasn't a very good example to relate to the situation at hand then?

 

I'm only replying to the examples people put up as best I can.

[Khiriath]

Is no one else bothered that Bioware has been lying to us for years?

 

Just to state it, I think the punishments are proportionate and deserved.

 

HOWEVER, for years Bioware has said that they cannot track this type of data. From launch of early release until the exploit was closed, I cleared 16m Ravagers some 12 times. Every single time the loot table was broken, and many times on the final boss at least I didn't get ANY loot at all, not even the earned coms.

 

12 bug report tickets all closed without any positive action on the part of BW. 5 phone calls that ended with someone on their QA team stating that they did not have the ability to track loot drops and mission completions for OPs.

 

Now suddenly they can. When it suits them to somehow supposedly make the game fair and balanced.

 

Did the exploit upset the market... Don't know, I'm not an economist nor a SWTOR economist. Did it unbalance progression? No more than the simple fact that many(maybe even all) who legitimately cleared this Op didn't get loot. So while they are datamining how about they figure out everyone who has been screwed over by the broken loot tables and denied coms, and compensate them. If you want to keep it only to those who didn't exploit, I'm fine with that too.

 

In the future when one of your QA specialists tries to tell me over the phone that BW is incapable of tracking such things, I'm simply going to tell him that he's a damn liar and point back the OP here.

[Joesixxpack]

Agreed. I can't wait to see what happens to all the ranked win trading that people partake in...I bet that investigation is HUGE!

 

LOL! If they read this, they're probably wondering what ranked and win trading is.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Joesixxpack

[ellrochell]

are the bans over now or will more be handed out?

[VincentBedok]

Glitch as in not drop loot? Wouldn't one have to burn 23 lock outs for that? Easy with alt toons I guess but I think if you are able to post now it's probably not a good idea to post anything that draws attention to that you may have exploited 11 times unless I'm reading your post wrong.

 

Anyone punished thus far still can't post ( hence the seemingly quiet forum day I guess ).

 

Glitch as in the damn escape pod issue causing the fight to reset. Our Ops group spent hours digging through forums looking for answers... On the other hand, I have no issues with being banned. I used an "Exploit" and I may be punished as such. However, Bioware is not going to pass the blame to it's user base. 4 Weeks we could do this. That's 4 weeks they had to work out a bugfix, but instead they sit around & did nothing. We've had patches in the past for 3-5 days straight to fix seemingly minor problems.

 

I'm not saying Bioware is a bad company, but their damn developers need some motivation.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Is no one else bothered that Bioware has been lying to us for years?

 

Just to state it, I think the punishments are proportionate and deserved.

 

HOWEVER, for years Bioware has said that they cannot track this type of data. From launch of early release until the exploit was closed, I cleared 16m Ravagers some 12 times. Every single time the loot table was broken, and many times on the final boss at least I didn't get ANY loot at all, not even the earned coms.

 

12 bug report tickets all closed without any positive action on the part of BW. 5 phone calls that ended with someone on their QA team stating that they did not have the ability to track loot drops and mission completions for OPs.

 

Now suddenly they can. When it suits them to somehow supposedly make the game fair and balanced.

 

Did the exploit upset the market... Don't know, I'm not an economist nor a SWTOR economist. Did it unbalance progression? No more than the simple fact that many(maybe even all) who legitimately cleared this Op didn't get loot. So while they are datamining how about they figure out everyone who has been screwed over by the broken loot tables and denied coms, and compensate them. If you want to keep it only to those who didn't exploit, I'm fine with that too.

 

In the future when one of your QA specialists tries to tell me over the phone that BW is incapable of tracking such things, I'm simply going to tell him that he's a damn liar and point back the OP here.

 

Yes this is very suspicious. I would be quite interested to hear from anyone ringing up CS now and pointing this out to them what they have to say about not being able to track anything when it was clearly tracked here.

 

I would imagine they would at the least have to say "err we'll have to get back to you on that" and leave the ticket open.

 

In saying that I've heard the rewards on this via tickets are sporadic. Some have had no issues getting gear from CS and others have no joy. It's very odd to say the least.

[Max_Killjoy]

Is no one else bothered that Bioware has been lying to us for years?

 

Just to state it, I think the punishments are proportionate and deserved.

 

HOWEVER, for years Bioware has said that they cannot track this type of data. From launch of early release until the exploit was closed, I cleared 16m Ravagers some 12 times. Every single time the loot table was broken, and many times on the final boss at least I didn't get ANY loot at all, not even the earned coms.

 

12 bug report tickets all closed without any positive action on the part of BW. 5 phone calls that ended with someone on their QA team stating that they did not have the ability to track loot drops and mission completions for OPs.

 

Now suddenly they can. When it suits them to somehow supposedly make the game fair and balanced.

 

Did the exploit upset the market... Don't know, I'm not an economist nor a SWTOR economist. Did it unbalance progression? No more than the simple fact that many(maybe even all) who legitimately cleared this Op didn't get loot. So while they are datamining how about they figure out everyone who has been screwed over by the broken loot tables and denied coms, and compensate them. If you want to keep it only to those who didn't exploit, I'm fine with that too.

 

In the future when one of your QA specialists tries to tell me over the phone that BW is incapable of tracking such things, I'm simply going to tell him that he's a damn liar and point back the OP here.

 

This is why some of us kinda raised our eyebrows and expressed some doubt at the idea that Bioware could track down the exploiters of this bug with much detail and accuracy -- because for years, they've been telling us that they can't do it when a glitch in the game swings against the players.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Glitch as in the damn escape pod issue causing the fight to reset. Our Ops group spent hours digging through forums looking for answers... On the other hand, I have no issues with being banned. I used an "Exploit" and I may be punished as such. However, Bioware is not going to pass the blame to it's user base. 4 Weeks we could do this. That's 4 weeks they had to work out a bugfix, but instead they sit around & did nothing. We've had patches in the past for 3-5 days straight to fix seemingly minor problems.

 

I'm not saying Bioware is a bad company, but their damn developers need some motivation.

 

Shared blame really. Bioware for the utter lack of control over the situation when it should have been seemingly simple. Users for knowingly exploiting something they in the majority of cases knew was exploiting.

 

Now the punishments etc. are done I guess people can return from their wee holiday and people can go back to teaming up against Bioware instead of each other heh.

 

Although in saying that if they would just communicate regarding current state of the slot machines ( regardless of my point of view ) my 2 biggest gripes on communication would be solved though clearly not the issues in game that still clearly persist.

[VincentBedok]

Is no one else bothered that Bioware has been lying to us for years?

 

Just to state it, I think the punishments are proportionate and deserved.

 

HOWEVER, for years Bioware has said that they cannot track this type of data. From launch of early release until the exploit was closed, I cleared 16m Ravagers some 12 times. Every single time the loot table was broken, and many times on the final boss at least I didn't get ANY loot at all, not even the earned coms.

 

12 bug report tickets all closed without any positive action on the part of BW. 5 phone calls that ended with someone on their QA team stating that they did not have the ability to track loot drops and mission completions for OPs.

 

Now suddenly they can. When it suits them to somehow supposedly make the game fair and balanced.

 

Did the exploit upset the market... Don't know, I'm not an economist nor a SWTOR economist. Did it unbalance progression? No more than the simple fact that many(maybe even all) who legitimately cleared this Op didn't get loot. So while they are datamining how about they figure out everyone who has been screwed over by the broken loot tables and denied coms, and compensate them. If you want to keep it only to those who didn't exploit, I'm fine with that too.

 

In the future when one of your QA specialists tries to tell me over the phone that BW is incapable of tracking such things, I'm simply going to tell him that he's a damn liar and point back the OP here.

 

That's worthy of a separate thread... All my yes.

[Darth_Wicked]

Yes this is very suspicious. I would be quite interested to hear from anyone ringing up CS now and pointing this out to them what they have to say about not being able to track anything when it was clearly tracked here.

 

I would imagine they would at the least have to say "err we'll have to get back to you on that" and leave the ticket open.

 

In saying that I've heard the rewards on this via tickets are sporadic. Some have had no issues getting gear from CS and others have no joy. It's very odd to say the least.

 

Check this here, plus this for context.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Check this here, plus this for context.

 

Can't see the image from work but the reddit stream I can.

I too have very good relations with CS in getting items/loot/comms etc. that have failed for me in that I can't think of one time I've been let down except when they wouldn't restore my Macro Binocular mission that I accidentally abandoned but that was of course entirely my fault and user error ( was just hopeful they might help heh ).

 

In saying that though I do believe others are indeed having these issues which is what makes the "we cannot track this" statement all the more strange for me especially in that the items apparently not tracked are the ones clearly tracked since they come from the same boss ideally I believe?

[Darth_Wicked]

Can't see the image from work but the reddit stream I can.

I too have very good relations with CS in getting items/loot/comms etc. that have failed for me in that I can't think of one time I've been let down except when they wouldn't restore my Macro Binocular mission that I accidentally abandoned but that was of course entirely my fault and user error ( was just hopeful they might help heh ).

 

In saying that though I do believe others are indeed having these issues which is what makes the "we cannot track this" statement all the more strange for me especially in that the items apparently not tracked are the ones clearly tracked since they come from the same boss ideally I believe?

 

Perhaps my approach was poor.

 

What I'm trying to say is that, depending on who you hear it from, they can track these things. Otherwise, how would they know for sure I finished KP on my Assassinm and got the token to redeem the Blood of Korriban double-bladed ligthsaber?

 

It was over two years ago, give or take.

 

Outside my word and my memory, I have no other data to provide to them and I don't believe a CS rep would just give the LS away without any indication whatsoever, on their end, that I did own it at one point.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Frybert]

Check this here, plus this for context.

 

HA! I knew you were an exploiter! The only reason you're getting as pass is because Darth Ma*gurgle**GASP*

[dscount]

 

 

 

 

 

Tab and Enter are your friends.

 

I have to admit.. I laughed after reading this and opening the spoiler tag. +1 Frybert...

[Pagy]

looks like the experiment worked. check it out

Is it really so hard for you to answer such a simple question? How does it not make you part of the pro exploit club?

reading is FUNdamental

i dont think gear should be removed because i really dont care and is a waste of bw resources.

i think people should not have exploited.

ok keep twisting this into a "im pro exploiter" lol

[BaronV]

Even though I didnt "exploit" I find it absolutely disgusting that the devs are punishing people for taking advantage of their mistake.

 

I find it even more disgusting as to the number of people baying for blood against the so called "exploiters" when it didn't hurt others in any way.

 

It is no different from authoritarian regimes that jail critics for revealing governmental blunders or wrongdoing. Absolutely disgusting.

 

Just another thing to add to my List of reasons to unsubscribe i guess. The see-saw is getting very close to tipping over the edge...

[Khiriath]

Perhaps my approach was poor.

 

What I'm trying to say is that, depending on who you hear it from, they can track these things. Otherwise, how would they know for sure I finished KP on my Assassinm and got the token to redeem the Blood of Korriban double-bladed ligthsaber?

 

It was over two years ago, give or take.

 

Outside my word and my memory, I have no other data to provide to them and I don't believe a CS rep would just give the LS away without any indication whatsoever, on their end, that I did own it at one point.

 

Gratz on getting a positive response. In all honesty inconsistency from their CS and QA departments doesn't really help my faith in the system either.

 

If its roll of the dice or luck of the draw as to what response you are going to get... well, that's worse. So some CS people do their jobs, others don't, and there is no means of recourse for us when we get one that doesn't.