Capt_Beers Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I really don't under stand why people think being in a group makes you instantly good. As an experiment log on and grab 3 randos off of fleet for a WZ group. You guys aren't all the sudden going to become unstoppable. If you are all average player you will continue to be average. If you are all below average you will continue to be below average. I've lost plenty of times with a premade, sometimes the other team is just better. And that's what it really boils down to, is that no one wants to admit the other team is better. That can't be it's because they are fotm classes or a premade or they are all hackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) What about meeting half-way and preventing more than one group (or more than 4 grouped players) pulled in the same zone? So, if there are not enough pug players to fill out the roster, the pre-mades will just end up in the Arenas against one another or load undermanned into the Same Faction scenarios? Does this have drawbacks? There is a reason why premades have above-average winrates. Your argument is faulty. I do not dispute that a premade on VOIP has a distinctive advantage. However, the number of zones are limited, the roles are relatively standardized, and the tactical decisions are fairly simple. Hence, pugs do ‘stand a chance’ imo, when there is an equivalence of skill and gear, and fairly good role distribution. A pug is at a disadvantage, yes, yes, YES, of course, because they control far less factors. Overall though, no matter what rules you are going to impose, more experienced players in better gear will generally win over the less experienced ungeared players. There is simply no way of making senior players to be less good at what they do once they have achieved the mastery. There is a French benefit to the premades, is that folks would start to play together more, rather than parallel play. Edited January 24, 2015 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnnyB Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I really don't under stand why people think being in a group makes you instantly good. As an experiment log on and grab 3 randos off of fleet for a WZ group. You guys aren't all the sudden going to become unstoppable. If you are all average player you will continue to be average. If you are all below average you will continue to be below average. I've lost plenty of times with a premade, sometimes the other team is just better. And that's what it really boils down to, is that no one wants to admit the other team is better. That can't be it's because they are fotm classes or a premade or they are all hackers. The idea that being in a premade makes you magically better is obviously a bad argument. However, premades are generally better than pug groups. They have better coordination, better composition, better equipment and a higher skill level than average. All these factors add up, quite a bit in many cases. Because of that they should be matched against other teams that have a better shot at winning than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TezMoney Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 However, premades are generally better than pug groups. They have better coordination, better composition, better equipment and a higher skill level than average. All these factors add up, quite a bit in many cases. Because of that they should be matched against other teams that have a better shot at winning than average. I'll give you better coordinated, and composition is a stretch since they can only control up to half the players except for arenas. However higher skill and equipment is pretty erroneous. By you own omission if they have better coordination and composition to make for lack of skill so how does one determine this? And equipment, I don't see how that's any different between pugs and groups, it certainly isn't a by product of them being in a group. Perhaps at the very beginning of a new tier because premade players tend to be grinders and get gear faster, but there is a gear cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanouss Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 It definitely isn't the premade every time,but it's always the pug. It's amazing how many times i see people finish WZ's as dps and having only done 90k damage , or healers barely breaking 100k, tanks at 30k protection and dps with taunt that have 0 protection points. Most of the pugs in regs are just simply people 2,3,4 just screwing around, they're just good and instinctively do what others cannot or refuse to learn to do. Not saying there aren't douchey power gamers that have no life outside of this game, that will get together and grief/troll regs..it happens, just not nearly as often as a lot of the complainers think. Team comp has a lot to do with, A LOT. If the other team has 2-3 healers and you have none, yes your task will be difficult, unless you focus one at a time and cc others, but unfortunately bad pvpers love to tunnel one target, or chase an almost dead foe into 4 of his friends and wonder why they cant get away when they get curb stomped. Reg pvp is all about awareness, knowing where your team is and what they're doing, and where the enemy is and what their doing. Stay by your heals and ranged, protect them if your melee, your job isn't always to jump head first into a mob of enemies and think your'll survive that (unless you have great healers and amazing dcd's.) It's a team game in pvp, you're not the only hero there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vennian Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) A pug is at a disadvantage, yes, yes, YES, of course, because they control far less factors. And THAT is the crux of the matter. Premades should only face other premades, just as pugs should only face other pugs. Edited January 24, 2015 by vennian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blikki Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 are "Premades " afraid for this to actually Happend? WoW has it, or had, i havent played it for a wile. but when you formed a premade group., the chanse was big that you met another premade on other team (not Rated) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblXsw Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 In principle I believe everybody should be free to form groups as they will and I've said so in earlier "nerf premades" threads. However, there undeniably is an issue. Too many warzones are decided before they start and completely lopsided; I've been on either side and neither is fun (at least to me...), it's just a waste of time. What is the problem? It's not just premades, as others have said before you don't become good just by being in a group and even a powerful tool like voice chat is only an advantage if you know how to use it efficiently and actually do that. Whenever someone complains about premades there is someone telling them they should just form one themselves. But that doesn't work, because the problem is a combination of premades and better players. The irony is, an average player actually hurts himself by forming a premade! Good players are not going to queue with him, they only queue with other good players (for many people it's part of the reason why they form premades in the first place, to avoid average and bad players in their group as much as possible), so the best he can do is queue with other average players. But allegedly (there once was a yellow post saying this, although I'm not completely convinced it's true...) the game prioritizes putting premades against each other. So, by forming a premade with other average players our hero increases the chances of having to play against a group of better players and decreases the chances to be grouped with them and profit from their superior firepower. Bottomline: If you don't feel you're born for greatness and know you're never going to be more than average, don't make a group. Ideally we would have a matchmaking system for regs that considered both groups and the quality of players (How? Perhaps an invisible rating could do the trick), but I don't believe we have the population - at least not on every server - for it to really make much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthClarky Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 If you complain about groups of people in this game you are just RUBBISH L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Please, don't do this. While there is no way to restrict people from playing well, it s also harder to learn anything when the skill discrepancy is far too high. It sounds like the mechanism to match a pre-made against a pre-made is there already, it is simply not working on the servers where one faction is over-dominant, resulting in the other faction simply not being able to field enough players with experience simultaneously. Cross-faction games are probably a cure for many ills we see. As hard as it is to accept it. Edited January 24, 2015 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TezMoney Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 are "Premades " afraid for this to actually Happend? WoW has it, or had, i havent played it for a wile. but when you formed a premade group., the chanse was big that you met another premade on other team (not Rated) It's not about being afraid of facing other premades. The accusation is just as stupid as people telling solo players to L2P. I much rather face another premade when in a premade, it makes for a better game over all. However, I don't want to have to wait 30 mins in between each match to do it. There's also the issue of back filling, the degradation of the quality of "solo only games", and being pretty much forcing any 4-man to be trinity or go solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vennian Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 It sounds like the mechanism to match a pre-made against a pre-made is there already. It is there, it's just not really working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebutthat Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Go duel spam people. You don't have to worry about premades then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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