LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I have said this a few times.... Pay to Win verb : When something costs real money and I do not like that...... Edited January 22, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) i have to seriously call into question any "gamer" who's been "around the block", that doesn't give BW major props in the P2W mania that is sweeping all MMOs. They actually do really good considering EA really calls the shots so I give credit where credit is due. As far as your opinion goes I think you confuse p2w item hate and paying money hate, a p2w item is like in STO the new ships they bring out every week that if you don't buy well you don't PVP or even miss content in general, you will never have to worry about BW doing that here, now an item that everyone wants to look cool or improves, speeds up parts of gameplay (time sinks) yea sure. You seem type that feels a player should pay for nothing outside sub, and that having stuff to purchase creates a gap, an unfair gap, between players, that is spending money hate and really two different things. You can't take a term which clearly means something else to everyone and make it your "personal" word and not expect atleast some conjecture, I mean come on lol If you take a clear analytic view on how MMO companies monetize their games you will find out that there is more then P2W and no P2W. Example: Path of Exile sells only skins and real QoL stuff for credits, everything bound to the player. Impact on other players 0. Absolut fair system. Then we have Swtor. You can you spend cash on extra items which you then can sell to other players to gain ingame wealth. So far (beside the machine) no item had any real impact on gameplay. Still fair but not the same as path of exile. Then we have games like Star Citzin, where you can buy direct ingame advantages over other players at least for some time. And we have the full P2W Games, with ingame advantages exclusive for $$$. Getting items affecting the gameplay a lot on the Cash shop is not good. Edited January 22, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwords Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) 2 days ago I used 3 CC certs to purchase items from the deco vendor by the strongholds, used the items and went to place them...poof! Not showing in my deco list anywhere. 2 tics later, one to the item section where the pat answer droid sent me to write a bug report and then a written /bug report as ordered. No answer, nada, so watch what you buy right now with them. Edited January 22, 2015 by Darkwords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If you take a clear analytic view on how MMO companies monetize their games you will find out that there is more then P2W and no P2W. Example: Path of Exile sells only skins and real QoL stuff for credits, everything bound to the player. Impact on other players 0. Absolut fair system. Then we have Swtor. You can you spend cash on extra items which you then can sell to other players to gain ingame wealth. So far (beside the machine) no item had any real impact on gameplay. Still fair but not the same as path of exile. Then we have games like Star Citzin, where you can buy direct ingame advantages over other players at least for some time. And we have the full P2W Games, with ingame advantages exclusive for $$$. World of Tanks. A big "pay to win" game IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 World of Tanks. A big "pay to win" game IMO. Never played it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Doesn't hurt to ask. You can always ask but I think specifically the cartel certificates would be a blow to their CM sales. They still wanna sell lots of them packs you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You can always ask but I think specifically the cartel certificates would be a blow to their CM sales. They still wanna sell lots of them packs you know I don't think that is likely. I think one of the perks of the packs are certs, but I don't think it is a real selling point. I think the main selling point is the gear/mount/decorations they drop. The rest is fluff IMO. I would speculate that getting certs in other ways does not affect CM sales at all...after all, you can get them in conquest as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarian Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think one of the perks of the packs are certs, but I don't think it is a real selling point. It's an interesting question. I loved being able to get certs without opening packs, but I wouldn't want to do it if it meant the revenues tanked and the servers shut down. I would tend to think, if the shipments are old enough, it may not impact sales that much. Maybe. I hope. ...after all, you can get them in conquest as well. Really? I had no idea. I may have to look into Conquest now. (Currently, I don't know the first thing about it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisknife Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't think that is likely. I think one of the perks of the packs are certs, but I don't think it is a real selling point. I think the main selling point is the gear/mount/decorations they drop. The rest is fluff IMO. I would speculate that getting certs in other ways does not affect CM sales at all...after all, you can get them in conquest as well. truth!! i have never bought a hypercrate hoping for certs lol, this is the truth,free certs are not going to hurt market sales any, may have led to a few threads complaining about trash items and what not, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumOD Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Lets face it crafter's have been screwing people for years in this game 200% markups etc etc offering to craft "for you" then keeping proc's and demanding tips, The slot machine leveled the field anyone could now craft with far less farm time... and the crafter's *****ed and QQed so they could get their captive audience back. Dev team Knee-Jerked the machine into oblivion after posting it was "working as intended " and tricked tons of players into buying crates to get this new machine that made crafting easier... This is a classic bait and switch DEV's should be ashamed of this ... where is the appoligy for this where is the we are going to make the odds more reasonable again post. I give them till Tuesday next. I have already pulled all our family's subs so 5 subbed account's 9k in cash shop now on F2p I urge other to voice your anger in the same way. Nothing will get their attention faster then you dropping your sub and telling them why. On Tuesday if there is still no message about how this is being fixed. I will have no choice but to seek a refund through Paypal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't think that is likely. I think one of the perks of the packs are certs, but I don't think it is a real selling point. I think the main selling point is the gear/mount/decorations they drop. The rest is fluff IMO. I would speculate that getting certs in other ways does not affect CM sales at all...after all, you can get them in conquest as well. Well, hate to break it to you but cartel certificates are one of the reasons I do buy packs. Because there are certain items that I want from the cartel vendors and also the decoration vendors. There have been times that I bought pack specifically to get them. Just saying that not everybody is the same so don't be too quick to assume. I don't know how many people care about them of course but I can at least imagine that they are important in cartel packs because they are to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Lets face it crafter's have been screwing people for years in this game 200% markups etc etc offering to craft "for you" then keeping proc's and demanding tips, The slot machine leveled the field anyone could now craft with far less farm time... and the crafter's *****ed and QQed so they could get their captive audience back. if people are paying, the prices are fine. let the market decide what the price should be. you think you're being screwed? don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) See this is why, more than complaints on the threads, that the slots got nerfed.. I highly doubt that they wanted the drop rates to be such that people could earn the certs (only gotten from packs) to be earned at the rate the machine was dropping them... it would be a disincentive to buy packs at all. I am not saying thats good or bad... just saying, in general, that didn't make sense to me (have an item that would remove one of the reasons people buy packs at all. Cartel Certs) Well me personally I buy packs for the new items in there and hope I get Certs as well. So they would have still gotten people buying packs. Edited January 22, 2015 by Reno_Tarshil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 I still strongly believe this is what should be done regarding the reduction rate of Certs. If not the normal rate as before something higher to make it worthwhile to get coins to be spent and get the credit sink to return to a fun level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I still strongly believe this is what should be done regarding the reduction rate of Certs. If not the normal rate as before something higher to make it worthwhile to get coins to be spent and get the credit sink to return to a fun level. This. Cert drop rate needs to return to what it was, 2 percent. Everything else can remain as is IMO. In fact I would be fine with an even HIGHER coin cost as long as certs return to a reasonable drop rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 This. Cert drop rate needs to return to what it was, 2 percent. Everything else can remain as is IMO. In fact I would be fine with an even HIGHER coin cost as long as certs return to a reasonable drop rate. I can deal with the coin cost if it means I can get a realistic amount of certs when I play. Lord knows, they know I'm still going to be buying stuff from the CM anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I can deal with the coin cost if it means I can get a realistic amount of certs when I play. Lord knows, they know I'm still going to be buying stuff from the CM anyways. I have proposed this a few times....the increased scrap drop rates could be removed, not really an issue IMO. Increase Purple to 1%, Blue to 2%, Green to 4% OR change to universal mats bound to you, as well as items made with those mats...or better yet no mats at all. Increase cert drop rate to 4%. Increase coin cost to 2000 per or limit use to 99 coins per day. Increase roll rate by 50 percent (longer spin). Only allow use of one machine at a time (one roll at a time). Remove the AFK disable to discourage macros. Consider a "lucky buff", 10 percent chance, that boosts rates to the indicated ones above but otherwise they remain as they are. Roll ALL remaining percentage into token drop, not fail chance. Even if they simply agreed to return certs to 2% that would be a HUGE improvement IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 I have proposed this a few times....the increased scrap drop rates could be removed, not really an issue IMO. Increase Purple to 1%, Blue to 2%, Green to 4% OR change to universal mats bound to you, as well as items made with those mats...or better yet no mats at all. Increase cert drop rate to 4%. Increase coin cost to 2000 per or limit use to 99 coins per day. Increase roll rate by 50 percent (longer spin). Only allow use of one machine at a time (one roll at a time). Remove the AFK disable to discourage macros. Consider a "lucky buff", 10 percent chance, that boosts rates to the indicated ones above but otherwise they remain as they are. Roll ALL remaining percentage into token drop, not fail chance. Even if they simply agreed to return certs to 2% that would be a HUGE improvement IMO. Bold is all that I would be happy having, rest is just butterfluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Bold is all that I would be happy having, rest is just butterfluff. And I would agree. With respect to the machine, that is the only change that is an absolute requirement at this point. That, a statement from the person that designed the machine, and some kind of event like the 12XP event to build some good will. IMO these things are not optional if they wish to dig their way out of the hole they have created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 And I would agree. With respect to the machine, that is the only change that is an absolute requirement at this point. That, a statement from the person that designed the machine, and some kind of event like the 12XP event to build some good will. IMO these things are not optional if they wish to dig their way out of the hole they have created. A 500 CC handout works wonders for me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 A 500 CC handout works wonders for me as well. Fair enough....I have to admit that would likely make quite a few happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Fair enough....I have to admit that would likely make quite a few happy. While I don't think 500CC is enough, I will say that putting your money where your mouth is goes a long way... Talk is so very cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 While I don't think 500CC is enough, I will say that putting your money where your mouth is goes a long way... Talk is so very cheap... I picked 500 because that's the amount a normal sub gives per month and is in line with other CC giveaways. Anything higher seems like a special occasion, though one can argue this particular issue is a special case/occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I picked 500 because that's the amount a normal sub gives per month and is in line with other CC giveaways. Anything higher seems like a special occasion, though one can argue this particular issue is a special case/occasion. Yes, but personally I feel a game mechanic like the 12XP event is far more reaching and involved. The idea would be to get detractors busy in game doing something they enjoy, so they would Bioware another pass. The last event built quite a bit of a good will IMO. All that good will is likely gone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 While I don't think 500CC is enough, I will say that putting your money where your mouth is goes a long way... Talk is so very cheap... Well, what would you feel would be an appropriate "im sorry" item, gesture or amount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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