OddballEasyEight Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You all cant quote Eric on saying that they working as intended, and not mention the fact that he said they will adjust as appropriate after they get a bit more data. Selectively quoting is what the MSM does, was hoping for a better quality of forum ranter today. Well, he only mentions adjusting the drop rate of Jawa Junk, nothing else. And that's not all, the patch notes only mention the drop rate of Jawa Junk being lowered and a mount being added. Nothing about lowering the drop rates of the other jawa scrap or the cartel certificates, or raising the chance of losing significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurdensWrath Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Well, he only mentions adjusting the drop rate of Jawa Junk, nothing else. And that's not all, the patch notes only mention the drop rate of Jawa Junk being lowered and a mount being added. Nothing about lowering the drop rates of the other jawa scrap or the cartel certificates, or raising the chance of losing significantly. That's the point most are missing. The patch notes and Eric himself misled us. Either deliberately, or through buffoonery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalmeseReb Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Troll fail. Try again. Crafting is woven into every aspect of this game. Really? what crafting makes pvp armor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 HOWEVER. Those adjustments were NOT in the patch notes, and were NOT released to us prior to what happened. He ONLY said Jawa Junk. And why the increase in prices for the coins if they were going to hit the bottom out of this. I mean I've seen people bend over backwards to defend Bioware, but you're taking the cake. Defend BW? I specifically said, from the beginning, that the current slots are broken and pointless. I've said the drops are all wrong. I've said this multiple times. But that's a totally separate point from the argument that BW did something shady or deceitful here. Sloppy perhaps, but not a swindle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Really? what crafting makes pvp armor? The crafting that generates the augment kits and the augments themselves used in PvP/endgame armor. I mean, facepalm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurdensWrath Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Defend BW? I specifically said, from the beginning, that the current slots are broken and pointless. I've said the drops are all wrong. I've said this multiple times. But that's a totally separate point from the argument that BW did something shady or deceitful here. Sloppy perhaps, but not a swindle. Swindle, probably not. Shady? Yes. You don't say one thing, and then when the patch is released less than 12 hours later find out it's worse than before. To me, it's shady because people relaxed when they found out the extent of the nerf, and then were shocked by how bad they were. Really? what crafting makes pvp armor? At one point, couldn't you RE the warzone stuff? Edited January 22, 2015 by DurdensWrath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Swindle, probably not. Shady? Yes. You don't say one thing, and then when the patch is released less than 12 hours later find out it's worse than before. To me, it's shady because people relaxed when they found out the extent of the nerf, and then were shocked by how bad they were. At one point, couldn't you RE the warzone stuff? Shady vs. sloppy? I dunno, I default toward sloppy. Perhaps that's me defending BW then but I'm not ready to call this intentional deceit. There are millions of things BW could do to tell TONS of CM packs that wouldn't require a bit of deceit so why here? And it's not like we were all clamoring for these slot machines to begin with. And can anyone really argue that they were harmed by "relying" on Eric's post yesterday about changes that omitted things like certificates? What would anyone reasonably have done differently in that 24 hours. But I know that many times things get implemented that are intended to work one way, but in practice work another, (Ravager's bug, silver mobs, etc.) and then 'fixes' are implemented that themselves cause, for some, even more problems. I'm inclined to put this in that camp, so maybe that is defending. I just think it goes too far to say anyone was screwed here when BW gave us all several days to rack up all we could (i'd say that's already value) AND, more importantly, when it's likely that this will be fixed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurdensWrath Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Shady vs. sloppy? I dunno, I default toward sloppy. Perhaps that's me defending BW then but I'm not ready to call this intentional deceit. There are millions of things BW could do to tell TONS of CM packs that wouldn't require a bit of deceit so why here? And it's not like we were all clamoring for these slot machines to begin with. And can anyone really argue that they were harmed by "relying" on Eric's post yesterday about changes that omitted things like certificates? What would anyone reasonably have done differently in that 24 hours. But I know that many times things get implemented that are intended to work one way, but in practice work another, (Ravager's bug, silver mobs, etc.) and then 'fixes' are implemented that themselves cause, for some, even more problems. I'm inclined to put this in that camp, so maybe that is defending. I just think it goes too far to say anyone was screwed here when BW gave us all several days to rack up all we could (i'd say that's already value) AND, more importantly, when it's likely that this will be fixed again. I would have done what I didn't do the entire time I had the slots. Use the hell out of them. I got a stack of jawa junk and enough certs to get the two 10 cert mounts. There were people who over used it, and people who used it for spice (like me). If I'd known, or if Eric had done the right thing (or someone had correctly informed him) I would have spent nothing but time getting enough certs to last me till the game ceased operating. And I appreciate you defending, but this is simple damn math. All it would have taken was some double checking. I mean I can't be TOO hard on them since NASA crashed a probe because someone couldn't convert from imperial to metric. I feel harmed by eric's post. I felt that the nerf was well planned and just. So I relaxed and enjoyed just casually playing the slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would have done what I didn't do the entire time I had the slots. Use the hell out of them. I got a stack of jawa junk and enough certs to get the two 10 cert mounts. There were people who over used it, and people who used it for spice (like me). If I'd known, or if Eric had done the right thing (or someone had correctly informed him) I would have spent nothing but time getting enough certs to last me till the game ceased operating. And I appreciate you defending, but this is simple damn math. All it would have taken was some double checking. I mean I can't be TOO hard on them since NASA crashed a probe because someone couldn't convert from imperial to metric. I feel harmed by eric's post. I felt that the nerf was well planned and just. So I relaxed and enjoyed just casually playing the slots. I want to buy this. I just can't. I did use the hell out of mine because I knew a nerf was coming. To have done anything else, at all (and I mean even from Eric's first post on this), is really rather reckless, or nonchalant. But again, I've already agreed that the drops are off, certificates are an example. So that said, since I don't believe this is anything but (another) mistake, I don't feel your comments are timely yet. This will be fixed. If it is not, feel free to publicly shame me with an "I told you so." I'm not afraid of being wrong on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurdensWrath Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I want to buy this. I just can't. I did use the hell out of mine because I knew a nerf was coming. To have done anything else, at all (and I mean even from Eric's first post on this), is really rather reckless, or nonchalant. But again, I've already agreed that the drops are off, certificates are an example. So that said, since I don't believe this is anything but (another) mistake, I don't feel your comments are timely yet. This will be fixed. If it is not, feel free to publicly shame me with an "I told you so." I'm not afraid of being wrong on this. It certainly was nonchalant. Of course, after being away for two years from MMO's I'd forgotten how recklessly they implement any kind of fixes. But Eric's first post left me comfortable about cartel certificates, which is all I wanted. I had enough jawa junk to make sure my alts and I had enough for full implants when I got them to 60. In retrospect. I should have done nothing every day but abuse the hell out of them. How many mistakes does EAWare get to make in a period of 2 months before it becomes a pattern instead of an exception? Edited January 22, 2015 by DurdensWrath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 A greater point could be made that the entire mess was not more than to keep players having a fit about the stuff the devs are NOT fixing i.e. bugged missions come to mind (*cough* Big Guns to name one of the smallest). To me that is what people should be bent about, not the soon to be fixed nerf to their money makers. I have ran out of folio, can you loan me your hat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Really? what crafting makes pvp armor? Can't crafted shells be used in PvP? Of course they can. And augments as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 RE: 'Working as intended'. When you are making a statement that something is not an exploit and that it is 'working as intended' does not mean, 'We intended for this item to flood the markedt with materials ata far greater rate than expected and at a cost that is negative...eg it is a more likely you see a net increase to your wealth just by farming materials and before you actually use/sell those materials...' What 'Working as intended' can also mean is, Yup, those are the rates we set the machines at. There is nothing 'broken' about the item RE: Code, a math error, etc that is causing the machine to be more generous. Its working as it was coded. When he then says, we're looking at how generous it actually is and may make adjustments, is prettu much telling you, without admitting they made a mistake, that they think they likely made a mistake in the coding so while it is 'working as intended' it is possibly 'broken' conceptually and may be due a repair. You folks need to understand context as well as how carefully they have to make announcements about things. For all intents, this message from Eric was 'WHOOPS! Damn this is broken, we really messed up, but listen, _WE_ messed up and so as long as you are using it _we're_ not going to punish you for our mistake. We're not going to take away anything you earn with it, etc.. so you better use it while it lasts because changes are coming" Now, its hard enough to craft that statement any better than it was crafted in a short period of time, its even harder still for them to say _every little detail and nuance_ of what they are going to review on the slots. So it matters bollocks that they didn't say anything about certs, or green mats or blue mats or green and yellow polka-dotted freaking Martians. They told you enough when they told you that 'Go ahead and use the slots because there is nothing wrong with their CODING and they are working the way they were CODED and you don't need to do anything special to get them to be as generous as they are.. its how they are CODED so you're not exploiting anything by pushing the button BUT we have heard (and seen) the results of our _perfectly working coded addition to the game, that is not broken literally but which introduces problems into the game_ and see that we should probably change it so expect things to change cause we're looking at it.... So stop hugging on to 'Working as Intended' as some graven words from the gods that must be loved and cherished and so anything that changes the device that was so labeled is a blasphemy and evidence of nefarious intent. Its not. They made a machine. Their machine was intended to work in such a manner as you pay a fee to turn the machine on. A short while later the machine provides you a result based on a random table. They looked at the coding of the machine, and the values in the table and everything about the machine showed that it worked the way it was built. There was no broken code making it spit out a skewed random number that made it access its table incorrectly. There was no other code defect etc that if you installed it in a specific stronghold decoration hok it acted differently, etc. The machine showed no flaws in the CODING of the machine so it was 'working as intended'. Unfortunately, after release they realized their table was BUNK and was significantly damaging to the game. They had ample data both submitted and gathered from their own intenal resources and they saw exactly how much material was being generated and at what rates. Heat-Wave, for example, one of the biggest whiners about the nerf at present has outright admitted that her guild alone has over 10,000 jawa junk in their guild banks from the slot machine and that she alone has over 3,000 jawa junk in her own banks from the slot machine, I am guessing the other people in her Guild also have like amounts of Jawa junk in their banks, and there are other guilds and other players all with even more. In less than 7 days. So, BiopWare saw that their perfectly functioning machine was working exactly as it had been designed to work, so pulling the lever on the machine was not an exploit BUT that their machine's payout chart was skewed far too much towards the 'generous' category. This is how something can be 'working as intended' and BROKEN at the same time. They let you know it was 'working as intended' because they wanted you to know there would be no punishments or repercussions to players for using the slot machines in the way they had been released. They let you know as well, that they were looking at the results and would make changes if they felt it necessary. And if you had any idea how many jawa junk materials were generated at a PROFIT before they were even sold/converted into salable items you would understand just how broken it was. People in the 'know' who make crafting and gathering an integral part of their game were VERY aware of justy how broken it was because they were able to generate results in just an hour that previously took them WEEKS. Working as intended DOES NOT MEAN 'Working as intended in every conceivable way'. It means, in context, there was no code flaw, code was working like it should. Code was just referencing a bad results table. We're looking at the results table and we're likely going to adjust it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksilvante Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I have ran out of folio, can you loan me your hat? Hmmm, I don't wear folios nor do I wear hats so alas, cannot help you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Can't crafted shells be used in PvP? Of course they can. And augments as well. We all, including you, know he meant armor (or mods that go into armor) with Expertise. That's the point most are missing. The patch notes and Eric himself misled us. Either deliberately, or through buffoonery. My opinion is that Eric Miusco feels just as blind-sided as many of the players do. Edited January 22, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts