A PvPer's Opinion on the Slinger Utilities

[GalnarDegana]

I wanted to explain my thoughts on the Slinger Utilities, and I know there are a lot of threads out there about this. I just want to combine my "review" of the Utilities that I posted in my Gunslinger class guide with ideas on how to fix them.

 

This is purely from a PvPer's point of view, so PvEers should please post rebuttals or additional points as needed!

 

I am a big proponent of having only good options. You should have to painfully choose between that fantastic thing, and this fantastic thing. You should never, EVER have a talent that is so pointless you would never take it (like Cover Screen).

 

Also, I would like to reduce the number of basic quality of life things like "reduces cooldown of X" and I would like to roll that into actual new functionality, like for instance lowering the cooldown of Leg Shot while making Leg Shot have a slow when the root wears off.

 

Skillful

 

 

Ballistic Dampers - 5/5

 

This functions exactly the same as pre-Update 3.0, and I still love it for PvP. Even three years later, it is still relevant.

 

Cool Under Pressure/Vital Regulators - 1/5

 

While in cover, you get 1% of your health back every 3 seconds. This is about 405 health every 3 seconds for me in augmented Exhumed PvP gear, so not fantastic. There is no way I would ever take this for Ranked, which is where our survivability hurts the most. The problem is, while self heals are nice, a slow, weak periodic heal is worthless in burst situations, which is the name of the game in Ranked.

 

This used to be tied to Cool Head in a 6% heal that could be used twice-in-a-row with Sabotage. This was nerfed for some unknown reason, because of course having 12% of your health back is too strong, while the total damage immunity that some other classes get isn't.

 

Cover Screen - 1/5

 

Leaving cover gives 20% ranged defense for 6 seconds. Basically, this takes your Portable Cover's ranged defense bonus with you for 6 seconds. Terrible skill, never liked it. Seriously, I can't think of a guide that has ever recommended this, nor do I think anyone I have ever met has taken this. I would bet it is the least-taken talent in the game.

 

Snap Shot - 4/5

 

After going into cover, makes it so your next Charged Burst/Snipe or Dirty Blast/Lethal Shot activates instantly. Love this skill, makes your burst better. Doesn't do anything for your DPS, but does a lot for burst and mobility.

 

Flash Powder - 2/5

 

Decreases accuracy of a target waking up from Flash Grenade/Flash Bang by 45% for 8 seconds. This was pretty good until our Flash Grenade was nerfed to be single-target. Not terrible to use on a big hitter in Ranked, but for the tradeoff of not having the AoE effect, how about a longer duration, say 12 seconds?

 

Efficient Ammo/Imperial Efficiency - 2/5

 

Increases damage done by Sweeping Gunfire/Suppressive Fire by 25%, which pairs well with Sharpshooter/Marksmanship's Accurized Blasters/Accurized Rifle talent (level 12), which buffs Sweeping Gunfire's crit chance by 15% and crit damage by 30%. In regs, this is great, but in Ranked? I've never used it, but others might like it.

 

Reset Engagement/Reestablish Range - 3/5

 

Blaster Whip/Shiv increases movement speed by 50% for 3 seconds, which is great for getting away from melee. This also makes the final shot of Speed Shot/Series of Shots and Penetrating Rounds/Penetrating Blasts also now knock back the target if they are within 10 meters, which is what Aimed Shot/Ambush used to do. Pretty good for arenas and PvP, especially if you think you'll get focused (hint: you will).

 

 

Masterful

 

 

Heads Up/Seek Cover - 5/5

 

Hunker Down/Entrench provides a 50% speed buff when Hunker Down ends or if you leave cover while Hunker Down is active. And it gives immunity to movement impairing effects. Now, keep in mind that Hunker Down "ends" when you leave cover, but if you go back into cover shortly after, you will regain Hunker Down. This means that you can basically keep a 50% speed boost/immunity to slows and roots going for 23 seconds out of every 45 seconds (if you take Lay Low/Pillbox Sniper's cooldown reduction, otherwise it is 60 seconds). And with Hightail It/Covered Escape giving Hunker Down in Sharpshooter, you could get another 3 seconds, making it 26/45 seconds.

 

I like this skill in theory, but it always seems a little dangerous to use. Maybe I'm just not used to it, but I would rather be CC-immune than root immune. This does work quite well in DF/Virulence, but I think it is underwhelming just a bit.

 

The main issue I have is that taking this REQUIRES you to take Lay Low/Pillbox Sniper. I hate how many of these required synergies we have, when it should just be combined.

 

Hot Pursuit/Calculated Pursuit - 1/5

 

A fun little talent, this gives you four Quick Shots/Overload Shot for free after leaving cover. There are terms and conditions so read the fine print.

 

First off, you can't go back into cover. Also, there is a rate limit. I want to like this skill, but I just can't justify it. Maybe if it were combined with Cover Screen or in place of it as a tier 1 ability. This skill just sounds better than it is.

 

Pandemonium/Stroke of Genius - 2/5

 

Pandemonium gives an instant Charged Burst/Snipe or Dirty Blast/Lethal Shot after using Pulse Detonator/Cover Pulse, and it is actually pretty fun, IF you take Hold Your Ground (decreases cooldown) from the Heroic talents and Snap Shot from the Skillful talents. This is great for anything that requires burst. It also doesn't get in the way of the two-in-a-row Charged Bursts that are needed to reset the cooldown on Trickshot/Followthrough in the Sharpshooter Discipline, so you can go into cover -> instant Charged Burst -> Pulse Detonator (off GCD) -> instant charged burst -> Trickshot.

 

I do hate that to get the burst we need in Ranked, we would need to use one of our few defensive skills.

 

Dirty Trickster/Counterstrike - 2/5

 

This is an awesome PvP skill, since it makes Surrender/Countermeasures cleanse roots and slows. It is a good thing for Dirty Fighting/Virulence Slingers/Snipers to take, since they are moving around a lot. This is also nice because it makes Surrender actually useful for PvP.

 

The only problem is it doesn't give immunity, so any roots that are cleansed can go right back on. Underwhelming.

 

Trip Shot/Imperial Demarcation - 2/5

 

Leg Shot is fantastic in PvP, and you could pair this 3-second cooldown reduction with Kneecappin'/Debilitating Shots in the Heroic talents for a really good Leg Shot.

 

The problem is, if I don't take Kneecappin'/Debilitating Shots in the Heroic talents, I don't have a good Leg Shot. This just isn't worth the point by itself. This is exactly the problem I have with Heads Up/Seek Cover, the skill just has this forced synergy that makes you HAVE to take the other talent for it to be useful.

 

Hotwired Defenses/Augmented Shields - 3/5

 

Increases damage absorbed by Defense Screen/Shield Probe by 30%, which basically means that whatever Defense Screen would absorb gets absorbed 30% better, not that you absorb 30% of incoming damage. Subtle wording there. For example, if you get hit with a skill for 10000 damage, and Defense Screen would absorb 5000, you'll absorb (0.30 x 5000) + 5000 = 6500 with this talent. Not (0.30 x 10000) + 5000 = 8000.

 

While it looks great on the surface, Defense Screen just doesn't prevent enough damage. I can be at 30% health and still be globalled with this skill active. It just doesn't hold up when compared to Guarded with the Force or Blade Ward. I compare the Sentinel, even though it isn't doing so well at the moment either, simply because they are a pure DPS class like we are that has way better defensive skills.

 

Lay Low/Pillbox Sniper - 3/5

 

Reduces the cooldown for Hunker Down/Entrench by 15 seconds, which is 1/4 of the cooldown time, so not too shabby. This also makes Pulse Detonator/Cover Pulse knock back enemies by 4 more meters, which is good for arenas and when using Hold Your Ground to get a lower cooldown on Pulse Detonator.

 

I like this one as-is probably.

 

 

Heroic

 

 

Plan B & C/Evacuate - 3/5

 

Reduces cooldown of Flash Grenade/Flash Bang and Dirty Kick/Debilitate by 15 seconds. This is especially good in combo with Flash Powder from the Skillful section. A 30-second cooldown on your stun is also amazing.

 

This is an insanely useful ability, but it is put so far up the tree to be in an awkward place of being too high to take too often. By the time I get here, I have selected the seemingly only useful talents before this in the other two tiers, and they need something in the Heroic tier to be truly useful, again forcing me to take the synergistic talents instead of this truly useful one.

 

Hold Your Ground - 5/5

 

Lowers the cooldown on three of your best defensive skills: Defense Screen/Shield Probe, Escape, and Pulse Detonator/Cover Pulse. A great skill for PvP and PvE.

 

This needs to just be split up and combined into three talents. Defense Screen/Shield Probe's cooldown should just be added to the Hotwired Defenses/Augmented Shields talent. Escape's cooldown reduction would fit nicely into the Dirty Trickster/Counterstrike talent, and would be a nice alternative to giving root immunity for a time after using Surrender/Countermeasures. Pulse Detonator/Cover Pulse's cooldown would make Pandemonium/Stroke of Genius worth taking, because it would be helpful and you'd still get your defense skill back fairly quickly.

 

Holed Up/Siege Bunker - 2/5

 

Decreases AoE damage taken by 60% while Hunker Down/Entrench is active. This is a good skill in concert with other Hunker Down buffs, but it is a little situational.

 

Again, I don't like being forced to take another talent for this to be as useful as it should be. Also, this is an unfair talent. Every other class gets AoE protection wherever they are. I would say compromise and make it 50% and while in cover. Make the Hunker Down/Entrench requirement go away.

 

Kneecappin'/Debilitating Shots - 3/5

 

Increases the duration of the Trauma debuff from Flourish Shot/Shatter Shot, as well as making Leg Shot a 70% slow for 3 seconds after the target breaks the root. Great for PvP, but not worth being Heroic. Seriously, you get only two of these talents, and this one REQUIRES you to take Trip Shot/Imperial Demarcation from the Masterful section. Just fold this one into the other one, or vice versa.

 

Compounding Impact/Series of Snares - 2/5

 

If you like slowing enemies, then this is a great skill, since it makes Penetrating Rounds/Penetrating Blasts or Speed Shot/Series of Shots slow a target with each hit, from 20% up to 80%. The only downside is it is only for 3 seconds. Because of how short the slow is, this is a terrible Heroic talent. Either increase the slow, put this in the Skillful tier, or combine it with Reset Engagement/Reestablish Range. If you did that, it would probably be worth being a Masterful talent.

 

Riot Screen/Deployed Shields - 5/5

 

Decreases cooldown on Scrambling Field/Ballistic Shield by 30 seconds and reduces the damage you take while in cover by 6%. This is absolutely necessary in PvP, in my opinion.

 

While good, I think a solid 10% is warranted. If you want the bonus, you have to be in cover, not stunned, and you can't move. A 4% increase isn't going to break the bank, but in combination with the other skills, Gunslingers might actually have a fighting chance in Ranked.

 

Crippling Diversion - 2/5

 

Makes Diversion an AoE 50% slow. Not a bad skill for PvP. Definitely not worth one of your only two Heroic points.

 

 

 

What I would do

 

Skillful

• Ballistic Dampers: unchanged
  
• Efficient Ammo/Imperial Efficiency: unchanged
  
• Snap Shot: unchanged
  
• Flash Powder: Debuff time increased to 12 seconds
  
• Reset Engagement/Reestablish Range: Current functionality plus Speed Shot/Series of Shots slow a target with each hit, from 20% up to 80% for 3 seconds
  
• Cool Under Pressure/Vital Regulators: Cool Head returns 5% health (restoring lost functionality)
  
• Cover Screen: Provides cover's protection from leaps and pulls, as well as the 20% ranged defense from portable cover and immunity to interrupts for 6 seconds (there, now you have a proper anti-getting-popped-out-of-cover defense)
  

 

Masterful

• Lay Low/Pillbox Sniper: unchanged
  
• Heads Up/Seek Cover: Current, plus Hot Pursuit/Calculated Pursuit
  
• Pandemonium/Stroke of Genius: Current functionality plus a 5 second cooldown reduction
  
• Dirty Trickster/Counterstrike: Same functionality, plus 30 second cooldown reduction on Escape (plus maybe root immunity for 3 seconds, but that could be too OP)
  
• Crippling Diversion: Moved from Heroic tier
  
• Hotwired Defenses/Augmented Shields: Current functionality, plus 5 second cooldown reduction
  
• NEW Lucky Dodge/Calculated Guess: Dodge/Evasion now purges all periodic effects
  

 

Heroic

• Plan B&C/Evacuate: unchanged
  
• Holed Up/Siege Bunker: Damage reduction of 50% (down from 60%), but now only requires cover
  Kneecappin'/Debilitating Shots: Current functionality, plus 3 second reduction on Leg Shot's cooldown. Also, not really important, but I would prefer if Debilitating Shots were replaced with the now-defunct talent's name, Imperial Demarcation, because Debilitating Shots is boring.
  
• Riot Screen/Deployed Shields: Current functionality, except it is now a 10% damage reduction while in cover
  
• NEW Quick Thinking/Improvisation: Cool Head/Adrenaline Probe resets the cooldowns of Defense Screen/Shield Probe, Hunker Down/Entrench, and Hightail It/Covered Escape (basically the old functionality of Sabotage/EMP Discharge)
  
• NEW Multitasking: Flash Grenade/Flash Bang and Thermal Grenade/Thermal Detonator now affect 3 extra targets in a 8-meter radius
  

 

I feel something in the same vein as this would provide us with meaningful choices between GOOD talents instead of picking just the few that don't suck as much. Not only that, but it would restore a bit of our nerfs that we got to our already pathetic survivability, plus a warranted boost in different ways to survivability that we desperately needed before we were nerfed.

 

No damage boosts needed, just some quality of life combinations, additions, and removal of terrible pointless talents (like Cover Screen).

 

Okay, bring on the whiners who think we'll be OP! The age of the Gunslinger must be near!

 

NOTE: Before anyone gets on to me, I think a similar thorough cleaning and polishing could be applied to all of the classes' utilities. I just know the most about what the Gunslinger needs. The Sentinel especially deserves a good look.

Edited March 25, 2015 by GalnarDegana

[MrGoldsilver]

[*]NEW Quick Thinking/Improvisation: Cool Head/Adrenaline Probe resets the cooldowns of Defense Screen/Shield Probe, Hunker Down/Entrench, and Hightail It/Covered Escape (basically the old functionality of Sabotage/EMP Discharge)

 

This by itself i would love to see. For me at least, i used Covered Escape on cooldown, but now that i can't reset it i lose a lot of mobility. The only difference i would think is to tie it to Evasion instead of Adrenaline Probe.

[GalnarDegana]

This by itself i would love to see. For me at least, i used Covered Escape on cooldown, but now that i can't reset it i lose a lot of mobility. The only difference i would think is to tie it to Evasion instead of Adrenaline Probe.

 

I really miss this skill. This was the main reason I played Sab. That and the Thermal Grenade goodness of Sabslinger too. Also, I really enjoyed the incredibly useful and easy-to-use stun.

 

You can see why I don't play Sab right now lol.

 

I was actually thinking about Evasion as another possibility for this. The only thing is, I wanted to include built-in tradeoffs, one of which is not being able to use Cool Head to regain energy if you use it as a defensive skill. Evasion will be popped if you are trying to defend anyway.

[Zoidrinali]

I want to see those resets back certainly but I don't think they should be utilities for all specs to choose from.

 

It was a core component of what made engineering so much fun and to make it available to marksman and lethality would be....for lack of a better analogy....nothing short of a crime punishable by death. It's what helped make engineering....engineering for me.

 

Even if they did put it as a utility for all to specs to get I definitely wouldn't want it tied to adrenaline probe or evasion. Evasion is just a straight forward no...not under any circumstances, it's got too many perks as it is. The question then is well ok what would you tie it to.

 

See my previous bit where I say I think it should stay as engineering only. I'm not saying that just as a knee jerk reaction to reading it as I have had similar thoughts myself and prob said as such in a post somewhere. It's something I've come to during the course of 3.0. We had a couple of things which defined our spec and that was one of them.

 

As for the rest of what you've written a lot of it is just down to personal preference really, for example you love snap shot I don't...never have done. Best thing they could do with that imo is to just remove it entirely, doesn't mean to say you're wrong or I am

Edited January 21, 2015 by Zoidrinali

[OMGITSJAD]

These all sound pretty good(and mostly not overpowered). Putting Series of Snares into a Skillful Utility would probably be too powerful. Imagine the cries from melee...I really like the buffs to Flash Powder, Cover Screen(I would actually consider picking that! A decent nerf to diversion.), Augmented Shields, Deployed Shields, and your ideas for new Heroic utilities. Also a 50% AOE damage reduction passively would be okay for PvP, but will never happen because of PvE. We get a decent enough uptime of Entrench in my book anyway. If it were to be changed, it would be a 30% damage reduction passively like the other classes.

NEW Lucky Dodge/Calculated Guess: Dodge/Evasion now removes all cleanseable effects

Do you mean cleanse or purge? I guess making Evasion an extra root break would be sort of useful, but only in very specific situations. In ranked, you couldn't waste Evasion as a root break because as a Sniper you 9 times out of 10 will be focused and Evasion is quite good for that, especially against burst.

 

If you meant it works as a DOT purge, never going to happen because of ability to trivialize some boss mechanics as a dev mentioned on stream a while back.

 

See my previous bit where I say I think it should stay as engineering only. I'm not saying that just as a knee jerk reaction to reading it as I have had similar thoughts myself and prob said as such in a post somewhere. It's something I've come to during the course of 3.0. We had a couple of things which defined our spec and that was one of them.

 

I think with 3.0, utilities should no longer really define a spec. Pre-3.0, Marksman was the spec that had the most out of Entrench, and now every spec can pick most of it's utilities for it. Marksman still uses it best because of the Entrench at the end of roll and the extended duration, but it no longer is spec-dependent.

Edited January 21, 2015 by OMGITSJAD

[BaineOs]

I think with 3.0, utilities should no longer really define a spec. Pre-3.0, Marksman was the spec that had the most out of Entrench, and now every spec can pick most of it's utilities for it. Marksman still uses it best because of the Entrench at the end of roll and the extended duration, but it no longer is spec-dependent.

 

The resets did not define the spec it helped to define the spec in conjunction with a lot of other things, there's a huge difference.

[Magira]

Snap Shot - 4/5

 

After going into cover, makes it so your next Charged Burst/Snipe or Dirty Blast/Lethal Shot activates instantly. Love this skill, makes your burst better. Doesn't do anything for your DPS, but does a lot for burst and mobility.

 

 

Uh, your analysis is only for Marksman? Because as a saboteur, the utility is completely useless, we do not use Charged Burst.

[KingKalbo]

Uh, your analysis is only for Marksman? Because as a saboteur, the utility is completely useless, we do not use Charged Burst.

True. I feel sabo/Engi discipline should have a quickshot/overload shot buff so we can make better use of the Calculated/hot pursuit utility. It's a more mobile spec after all so why not a buff to an instant instead of casted attack. Edited January 22, 2015 by KingKalbo

[flem]

I haven't actually used Series of Snares because it looks so bad. Is it really three seconds overall, or 3 seconds stacking with each tick?

 

Great post, in any case. Compare our list of utilities (only a few necessities and a lot of meh) with something like the Sage list...

[BaineOs]

I haven't actually used Series of Snares because it looks so bad. Is it really three seconds overall, or 3 seconds stacking with each tick?

 

Great post, in any case. Compare our list of utilities (only a few necessities and a lot of meh) with something like the Sage list...

 

It might sound bad but when you combine it with Reestablish Range it's very good.

[GalnarDegana]

True. I feel sabo/Engi discipline should have a quickshot/overload shot buff so we can make better use of the Calculated/hot pursuit utility. It's a more mobile spec after all so why not a buff to an instant instead of casted attack.

 

I would love this. Takes an underwhelming talent like Hot Pursuit and makes it worthwhile too. Plus, Charged Burst is just weird in this spec.

 

See my previous bit where I say I think it should stay as engineering only. I'm not saying that just as a knee jerk reaction to reading it as I have had similar thoughts myself and prob said as such in a post somewhere. It's something I've come to during the course of 3.0. We had a couple of things which defined our spec and that was one of them.

 

As for the rest of what you've written a lot of it is just down to personal preference really, for example you love snap shot I don't...never have done. Best thing they could do with that imo is to just remove it entirely, doesn't mean to say you're wrong or I am

 

As to the first paragraph, Saboteur used to be my favorite spec because of the utility. The stun, the defensive skills, the amazing burst with wall-banging, loved it. Now, it is an AoE damage spec and utilities are moved to...well, Utilities. This is the way it is, and unless they reverse the idiotic stun changes, I will probably never spec to it again, which makes me really sad.

 

As to the second paragraph, it makes you able to cast Charged Burst while moving, which is great in PvP. Some people might not move, or might never use Charged Burst (like Sabslingers). In which case, this utility doesn't apply to you. But I would argue that since it is useful to some people (especially Sharpshooters), it still deserves to stick around, unlike a talent like Cover Screen which is useful to no one.

 

 

If you meant it works as a DOT purge, never going to happen because of ability to trivialize some boss mechanics as a dev mentioned on stream a while back.

 

 

That is fine if it is the reason, but it is a double-standard if this is true, because Scoundrels have the purge. And I did mean purge.

 

The resets did not define the spec it helped to define the spec in conjunction with a lot of other things, there's a huge difference.

 

Agreed, see above.

 

Uh, your analysis is only for Marksman? Because as a saboteur, the utility is completely useless, we do not use Charged Burst.

 

Yes, for Marksmanship and Lethality (or is it Virulence for Snipers, can't remember who got changed).

 

Sabslingers wouldn't use this much, but I don't use Sab anymore

 

It might sound bad but when you combine it with Reestablish Range it's very good.

 

This is true. For me personally, my logic is that if it is in the Heroic category, it should be good enough to stand on its own. It shouldn't need other talents to be good.

[GalnarDegana]

I haven't actually used Series of Snares because it looks so bad. Is it really three seconds overall, or 3 seconds stacking with each tick?

 

Great post, in any case. Compare our list of utilities (only a few necessities and a lot of meh) with something like the Sage list...

 

It refreshes the 3 second buff each time, so at the end, it has 3 seconds before the 80% slow wears off.

 

I was leveling my sage the other day, and it was just insane how awesome all of their abilities were. I was having a hard time deciding because I wanted them all lol.

[Zoidrinali]

As to the first paragraph, Saboteur used to be my favorite spec because of the utility. The stun, the defensive skills, the amazing burst with wall-banging, loved it. Now, it is an AoE damage spec and utilities are moved to...well, Utilities. This is the way it is, and unless they reverse the idiotic stun changes, I will probably never spec to it again, which makes me really sad.

 

As to the second paragraph, it makes you able to cast Charged Burst while moving, which is great in PvP. Some people might not move, or might never use Charged Burst (like Sabslingers). In which case, this utility doesn't apply to you. But I would argue that since it is useful to some people (especially Sharpshooters), it still deserves to stick around, unlike a talent like Cover Screen which is useful to no one.

If utilities have been moved to utilities why is it that 3 secs of entrench after covered escape is still within the marksman tree? If you agree that the instant snipe/charged burst is most useful for sharpshooters why not have it within the marksman spec?

 

When it comes to wall banging it should never have been allowed in the first place, scatter bombs were never intended to be used like that when it came out. It was something they looked at and after consideration decided they didn't mind it. That for me was a huge mistake because all it did was to give a lot of people an inflated view of how to play the spec.

 

I understand where you're coming from but it still doesn't change the fact that the EMP discharge pre 3.0 are not in my view utilities. Not the way I look at it. Each spec must have it's own individual identity to make it worhtwhile playing, that's the same for every class. Markman had the burst and good single target damage, lethality had the good sustained damage and engineering had the AOE....but it also had limited tanking/superior survivibility as well. When you have something that helps define a spec for that amount of time right back to the game being released you don't just take it away. All it does is provide a dull and boring playstyle in comparison. Sure new comers and those who didn't know the spec before hand will find it nice but that doesn't make it right.

 

Under no circumstances should the pre 3.0 EMP Discharge resets be given to all snipers. I'm sorry and with respect I will never be convinced otherwise.

 

There are definitely issues with engineering that need to be resolved, at lower levels it's quite appauling. Tried it at lvl 33 and instead of being highly fun it's now extremely boring and limited. It's not just the high level stuff like EMP discharge that needs to be looked at...although that's going off topic so apologies for that (is a valid point though ).

 

Don't get me wrong dude I like the effort you've put in to your original post but for me the EMP Discharge one is something I feel strongly about.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Zoidrinali

[Magira]

Yes, for Marksmanship and Lethality (or is it Virulence for Snipers, can't remember who got changed).

 

Sabslingers wouldn't use this much, but I don't use Sab anymore

 

I'm also not happy about the changes to the Sabslinger, am first two weeks running around as a Marksman. But that's really terrible.

A tree to fall asleep, everything takes forever. Previously, you could compare well with Lightning Sorc, but the Sorc now has nearly everything instant or in motion.

Marksman is completely unsuitable for solo PVP. In a group, maybe if you have previously drank enough coffee not to fall asleep.

[GalnarDegana]

If utilities have been moved to utilities why is it that 3 secs of entrench after covered escape is still within the marksman tree? If you agree that the instant snipe/charged burst is most useful for sharpshooters why not have it within the marksman spec?

 

I think it is most useful for DF actually. They are the most on-the-move spec of the three, and they don't need to spend a lot of time in cover, so popping in to hit a Dirty Blast then popping out so you can keep running is awesome. I would love it if they changed Snap Shot so you could use Charged Burst/Dirty Blast while moving instead of having it be an instant, but that probably won't happen.

 

When it comes to wall banging it should never have been allowed in the first place, scatter bombs were never intended to be used like that when it came out. It was something they looked at and after consideration decided they didn't mind it. That for me was a huge mistake because all it did was to give a lot of people an inflated view of how to play the spec.

 

While I agree that they were overpowered, I think that the technique was a neat one, and they should have just nerfed the damage a bit. Obviously, they didn't agree with me, but the point really was that I liked the burst the spec had, and now it doesn't have that burst at all. In fact, the only thing it does well with is AoE damage, and one could make the argument that spamming Sweeping Gunfire is better even still, if paired with Efficient Ammo from the Utilities. Sab just doesn't have the "it factor" that made it so awesome. Scatter Bombs was just part of it.

 

I understand where you're coming from but it still doesn't change the fact that the EMP discharge pre 3.0 are not in my view utilities. Not the way I look at it. Each spec must have it's own individual identity to make it worhtwhile playing, that's the same for every class. Markman had the burst and good single target damage, lethality had the good sustained damage and engineering had the AOE....but it also had limited tanking/superior survivibility as well. When you have something that helps define a spec for that amount of time right back to the game being released you don't just take it away. All it does is provide a dull and boring playstyle in comparison. Sure new comers and those who didn't know the spec before hand will find it nice but that doesn't make it right.

 

Okay, when you put it that way, I completely agree. I would play Sab to get the defensive abilities, because as a class right now, we basically don't have any good ones, except for Hunker Down. Everything else is too weak to mitigate extreme burst that happens in Ranked, and while mitigating a low percentage of damage works in Ops groups to help healers (especially Scrambling Field), it is next-to-useless in Ranked PvP.

 

Under no circumstances should the pre 3.0 EMP Discharge resets be given to all snipers. I'm sorry and with respect I will never be convinced otherwise.

 

I would rather it be given to all than to none, which is the situation we have now.

 

There are definitely issues with engineering that need to be resolved, at lower levels it's quite appauling. Tried it at lvl 33 and instead of being highly fun it's now extremely boring and limited. It's not just the high level stuff like EMP discharge that needs to be looked at...although that's going off topic so apologies for that (is a valid point though ).

 

Don't get me wrong dude I like the effort you've put in to your original post but for me the EMP Discharge one is something I feel strongly about.

 

I totally get this, and I think you are 100% right about Sab needing some major changes. Not only did they not buff it like it actually kind of NEEDED ALREADY, they nerfed it into the ground so hard that no one I know plays it.

 

I'm also not happy about the changes to the Sabslinger, am first two weeks running around as a Marksman. But that's really terrible.

A tree to fall asleep, everything takes forever. Previously, you could compare well with Lightning Sorc, but the Sorc now has nearly everything instant or in motion.

Marksman is completely unsuitable for solo PVP. In a group, maybe if you have previously drank enough coffee not to fall asleep.

 

Marksman is our best option for solo PvP, but without a solid healer, we will die first in most Ranked PvP matches. I never really liked Marksmanship for other things, I always preferred the playstyle that came with Sab, but they really didn't change our class at all to make it more interesting, they just moved the skills and renamed some stuff. MM basically plays exactly the same, except of course for the lack of Orbital Strike because, you know, it sucks now.