The-Kaitou-Kid Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'd like to preface this by stating that, for me, I never looked at the slot machine as a source of income. Did I make money off of it? Sure, but it's not the reason I used the machine, wanted the machine, anything. The reason I used and wanted this machine was for the purpose it was supposed to serve - making contraband resale & embargoed items obtainable by dropping rep items and cartel certificates. Having tried to obtain Revan's mask time and time again, yet never quite managing to build up the amount(s) asked for on the GTN, this machine was a God-send simply for that; not to mention all the other items that were now available to me. The Jawa scraps were only an extra, a bonus as far as I was concerned. In some cases, I sold the mats, in others I used them myself - but again, they neither made nor broke the slot machine for me. And I wasn't affected at all when it was said the drop rates for those would likely be altered, so that's not what gets me here. What gets me is the fact that, after stating everything was working as intended and citing possible changes for Jawa Junk, BioWare nerfed the entire PURPOSE of this slot machine into the ground with the decreased drops for cartel certificates. Because what good are rep items when you've either maxed out your rep, can't get the certs to make USE of that rep - or both? That's what gets me with this. I'm not upset about the Jawa scrap, I'm not "butthurt" about losing out on any guaranteed profit - I'm disappointed that the entire purpose behind this machine has been nerfed into the ground alongside everything else, and due to an overreaction at that. Amen. I'm glad that the only item I really wanted from the rep vendors was the Diplomat's Meditation Hoverchair and I managed to pick it up already on the character I wanted it on. Everything else isn't a huge deal to me but it's sad to see the real use for this slot machine get stomped on because of the Jawa scraps. Just really disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastiaanZ Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Talk to them ??? I'd like to do much worser things IN GAME with them for pulling this dick move over us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divana Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) So I ask you, how did it go from "there's nothing wrong with the machine, it's working as intended but we'll look at the drop rates of Jawa Junk because of the feedback on the forums" to "we have changed all the droprates so that you will get hardly any jawa scrap of any sort from the machine and we've also increased the price of using the machine" I'm just curious as to how you arrived that that solution. I too am curious how they arrived at this solution. It is obvious the Devs of this game are too understaffed to properly support their product by either taking the time to do any testing of it, or round tabling the impact of their decisions - and that assumes they are capable of making rational well thought decisions to begin with, which I seriously question. Do they even care about this game? Since 3.0 I have been waiting for Beta to be over. I did not agree to test out their product. Get it right people! Edited January 21, 2015 by Divana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryzoul Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Please post your Nerf percentage so I know the percentage I should nerf my future Cartel Purchases. I spent 160$ trying to get a slot machine. and ended up having to purchase one for 4.2 million credits. Now a close to worthless item. I waited to purchase packs until Eric posted, and I never would have purchased that many packs if Eric hadn't said The Contraband Slot Machine is not bugged. It is 100% not an exploit to use the Slot Machine. If you feel the desire to sell access to your Stronghold, that’s totally up to you. As a reminder, do not scam people as that is against ToS. We added the Slot Machine as a fun idea based on the positive feedback from the Nightlife event, so spend those credits to your heart’s content!" Edited January 21, 2015 by Ryzoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I waited to purchase packs until Eric posted, and I never would have purchased that many packs if Eric hadn't said The Contraband Slot Machine is not bugged. It is 100% not an exploit to use the Slot Machine. If you feel the desire to sell access to your Stronghold, that’s totally up to you. As a reminder, do not scam people as that is against ToS. We added the Slot Machine as a fun idea based on the positive feedback from the Nightlife event, so spend those credits to your heart’s content!" Apparently in your excitement you skipped over: With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 He is right, blah blah blah And I suspect that you, like him, are not a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Talk to them ??? I'd like to do much worser things IN GAME with them for pulling this dick move over us. All you can do to them that matters is cancel your subscription. Which I did this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Apparently in your excitement you skipped over: With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. "Make changes accordingly" would not seem to mean "reduce all of the Jawa scrap and cert drop rates to near zero." Edited January 21, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBritain Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Way to mess things up BW. I haven't used the machine, was only just aware of it when I saw the 'working as intended' post on dulfy. Over the moon that the Guildship was getting a machine, then you swing the nerf bat so hard you knock the machine into an unknown universe rendering it pointless. I do question the intelligence in some of the people that work for BW, be it letting a known bug / exploit in an Operation leave the PTS and go live. Or releasing a fun machine only to batter and rend it pointless with an over zealous change. LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Apparently in your excitement you skipped over: With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. Maby you skipped the part where he only mentioned Jawa Junk and nothing else? Hell, it's even in the patch notes: The Contraband Slot Machine’s Jawa Junk drop rate has been reduced and Faction-specific Walker mounts have been added to the potential rewards. See? Only mentions Jawa Junk. Not the other jawa stuff (droid parts and scavanged scrap) or the cartel certificates. Or the fact that the loss chance is now higher than before. Edited January 21, 2015 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarathAnno Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I too am curious how they arrived at this solution. It is obvious the Devs of this game are too understaffed to properly support their product by either taking the time to do any testing of it, or round tabling the impact of their decisions - and that assumes they are capable of making rational well thought decisions to begin with, which I seriously question. Do they even care about this game? Since 3.0 I have been waiting for Beta to be over. I did not agree to test out their product. Get it right people! This is about where I am at too. I normally give the devs in MMOs a lot of slack because I don't think most people appreciate how hard game developers work. But so many things since 3.0 feel rushed, poorly thought out, poorly implemented, and poorly tested. I don't know if it is under staffing, poor management, unrealistic deadlines, or something else but there is a problem with the way this game is being run right now. Edited January 21, 2015 by KarathAnno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieRedeye Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I cant comment on economics and such, I didnt really know how the original drop rates would affect the game in a longer run, though I suspect it wasn't gonna be "death for the economy" that some were saying. I did like the original rates, because i would use the mats to craft my own stuff for my toons, but i would have shrugged off the nerf to jawa items, even if they were completly removed from the slots. Just my opinion. I do however, feel that nerfing Cert drop rates is disappointing, as maxing rep is a bit poinless if the slots dont drop enough Certs to actually buy stuff (legend items can cost 10 ) I dont recall many saying the drop rate on Certs was too high in the first place. I could be wrong, there was too many posts about the slots for me to read. I do feel for the guys who went and spent real money in the hopes of getting a slot machine, only to have it rendered near useless a few days later. BW should hand their heads in shame on that one. All in all, i'm a little disappointed by this, I'll still sub, and I'll still treat myself to a crate a month if theres stuff i like in it, but please Bioware, use a bit more common sense in the future. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiVaN_ Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Not exactly F2P. You still have to buy the game. True, It is a minimum of a 1 time $60 purchase, but for those who own the game already we can pick up where we left off with no sub fees and no game play restrictions. Since they have fixed a lot of their launch issues it may be worth playing for free. Or we can roll new toons and start over with no monthly subscriptions. They have their own micro transaction system that sounds a lot like cartel market and cartel coins so it should be interesting. If a Cash shop injects $ into their development cycle then 2015 could be a rebound year for them. 2015 could see ESO compete with the big boys for some market share. Back to the Slot Machine talk though. Because that is what is relevant to this topic. I don't care about the Jawa Junk, and other scraps, but what I do care about is that the win ratios were nerfed to the ground. It isn't worth it to own this thing any more nor, if the trend continues, will it be worth it to own future slots. I enjoyed the thrill of the win, so what if I was winning crap I can't use I like the win! I used my Jawa Junk to buy the mats needed make my own augments for 2 of my 12 lvl 60 toons. I have really bad luck on the Slicing missions. Yeah I know it is "cheaper" to send out slicers, but I seem to only get 2 or 3 rich and bountiful missions a night and most of the time I log in the next day to find out that my Companion, with a Slicing critical and max affection, managed to fail the mission. T7 fails, Risha fails, SCORPIO Flails, Tharan Cedrax fails. Either that or all I get are extra blue mats. I have earned 12 purples from slicing since December 2nd, the rest I bought with JAwa junk or traded 2 99 stacks of blues for enough to make myself 1 augment. My luck is really bad, even on slot machines I got mostly the blue Droid Parts. What chip do I have 8 stacks of already??? Droid parts... What grade mats do I have an abundance of from level 1 to level 11 mats??? The blues... I don't need blue anything and that was what I got most of the time. If I could trade blue for green or Blue for the purple that would be awesome! At the very least bump us back up to a 75% win percentage and make the Speeder a better chance to drop. Maybe give it an icon, name and description? Making it Bind on Legacy would be good too. I am not looking for more Jawa Junk, It would be nice if it dropped more often that it is after today's UBER nerf. Really the only people who were making out on the old system were the really rich folks who had tons of credits to spend on this stuff. Folks like me who have about 12 million spread across 18 characters we were doing just fine getting what we needed to craft our own stuff. But, as is becoming par for the course EA decides to listen to the people who were having a cow and gave us a knee jerk reaction. I still find it funny that Under Lurker was bugged since December 2nd and just got ANOTHER patch today. The slot machines came out last Tuesday and you nailed them to the wall after a week. Lag and Frame rates were an issue back on PTS and therefore have been a problem for about 3 months, but no fix is expected until 3.1 in late February. If EA is trying to kill their game they are doing a great job. If they are trying to win new customers and bring back old ones... I don't see that happening with the state of the game right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GopherLuV Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 As usual, i'm not reading 20 pages of what has another 10 topics on here, but I will say that ***.... So, you can nerf the jawa junk drop rates sure, but to nerf them to almost non-existent?? I ran 1188 coins through this morning after the patch (12 stacks I had saved from last night after running about 2500 through..) and i got some cool things....... 2 green jawa junk 2 blue jawa junk 1 CM cert (which was lucky because I haven't hear anyone else getting these at all yet..) Yes even though I ran the **** outa that thing during the last week and it made me a very happy person, I really agree the drop rate was to high on jawa junk and CM certs, but where the **** is the middle ground bioware? Why couldn't you nerf this to be almost worth it or something... It is in all sense now, another way to sink millions into nothingness in return for... nothing.... unless you get very lucky and pop the mount which I really doubt is actually there... Pics or it didnt happen... Great job again bioware... If underlurker winds up more broken when I run it tonight, not that anyone cares but, my auto-pay on my sub will get shut off and i'll probably wind up deleting the account... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beasthunt Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I stopped at 500 coins, after 400 coins I had received nothing but rep items but around 450 I won a cartel certificate. So after 500 coins. 1- cartel certificate 0- green jawa scrap 0- blue jawa scrap 0- purple jawa scrap Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beasthunt Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 All you can do to them that matters is cancel your subscription. Which I did this morning. Yulp, good point. I cancelled mine last week after they decided to make most of the end game ops not worth running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) While I do not support the way BW handled things with the Slot Machine, I am fairly baffled that a mishandling of a quirky little stronghold decoration has caused this much of a blow-up, with people claiming they've unsubbed over it. Yeah they screwed things up, but they screwed things up in relation to a really minor aspect of the game. Obviously your money is your own, and you can subscribe or unsubscribe on any basis you want whatsoever, but if I was a dev I'd be looking at these threads and wondering what freaking twilight zone I dropped into where this is what has people worked up. Edited January 21, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 "Make changes accordingly" would not seem to mean "reduce all of the Jawa scrap and cert drop rates to near zero." Agreed. I'm not saying that the adjustment was perfect. I'm saying that the adjustment was announced. We knew that they were looking into changes. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they make more adjustments in the future. If they raise the drop rates will people flood the forum crying like children that they're the victims of bait-and-switch? Nope. They only whine when they fail to get what they want. When they get more than what they want (and others suffer), they say everything is fine and they're legally entitled to continue getting it. Maby you skipped the part where he only mentioned Jawa Junk and nothing else? Nope. He never said it was only Jawa Junk. He specifically mentioned Jawa Junk. Bioware can made whatever adjustments they want/need to to put the game in line with what the design. They don't have to tell us in advance for every variable they modify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GopherLuV Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 While I do not support the way BW handled things with the Slot Machine, I am fairly baffled that a mishandling of a quirky little stronghold decoration has caused this much of a blow-up, with people claiming they've unsubbed over it. Yeah they screwed things up, but they screwed things up in relation to a really minor aspect of the game. Obviously your money is your own, and you can subscribe or unsubscribe on any basis you want whatsoever, but if I was a dev I'd be looking at these threads and wondering what freaking twilight zone I dropped into where this is what has people worked up. I'm speaking purely of myself here but i'm sure others feel this way as well... It is not simply the slot machine, there have been numerous other issues lately and none of them were handled well.... Perhaps in 12 months or so IF 4.0 drops.. we can come back and play the 3.0 content... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) It's disappointing the Contraband slot machine has been nerfed so heavily, I've yet to try the odds to compare against previous results but see no reason to believe the reports are not exaggerated. I felt the Purple Jawa drop rates needed to be scaled back a touch (or the cost of grade 9/11 purple mats increased on the vendors) from the stacks of coins I ran through I tended to end up with slightly more purple mats than blue or green (very close to being equal amounts) and that just felt wrong. Given the normal activities and the rates mats can be acquired I would have thought 10 Green : 4 Blue : 1 Purple would have been a better ratio. The rep rewards were fine, they only serve a point until your rep is legend after that they just offset the cost of putting in tokens. And it's nice to think you are winning even when you aren't Again, the ratio of drops for me seemed to be almost equal, maybe slightly less purple but I saw a high degree of variance. The Cartel Certificates drop rate seemed reasonable, the few items they are needed for on the Rep vendors carry a price as well. Maybe a slight reduction as some stacks of 99 coins gave back as many as 5 Certs. But more than this was the time required to put a stack through the machine. Time that you are spent doing nothing else other than clicking the slot machine. Not compelling game play at the best of times. Unfortunately BW seems to underestimate the time MMO players will spend doing boring, repetitive tasks if they think it gives them an advantage (or have the 3rd party hardware that will do that for them while they go away and watch a film, read a book, go for a walk, etc... ) Hopefully this is an adjustment phase (or an outright mistake in programming) and the drop rates will be altered back up again, not as high as originally but not as low as now. What worries me most though is the trend set by communicating something is working fine and as expected and then altering it within a week or two due to player outrage (I refer of course to the removal of training costs and this slot machine) Is there no internal testing at all? Why aren't these sort of aspects tested on the PTS? Edited January 21, 2015 by Vhaegrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Nope. He never said it was only Jawa Junk. He specifically mentioned Jawa Junk. Bioware can made whatever adjustments they want/need to to put the game in line with what the design. They don't have to tell us in advance for every variable they modify. They certainly don't have to, no. But don't use that quote to somehow argue that they told us they'd change everything about the machine. Because he specifically stated that they'd look into the droprates of Jawa Junk. Besides all that, the patch notes actually only state that the droprates for jawa junk have been lowered and a walker mount has been added. They don't mention lowering the other jawa scrap or the cartel certificates or the increased chance of losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Rion Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I knew I shouldn't have made the impulse buy of that machine a few days ago. 3 million of my hard earned daily gained credits gone and so far only 1.5m made back before this hit. Shame. Back to grinding dailies on my two maxed out characters to get the credits for the extortionately priced items I would like to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grombrinda Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So...no response from the devs or anyone??.......Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 They've started deleting posts that show the new odds. Pointing out that the emperor is naked is always a touch dangerous, it seems. ^ This... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 So...no response from the devs or anyone??.......Anyone? Nope... they did come on the forums to say that they are aiming to fix the 16 man loot drop problem in 3.1. Because we all know that the entire forum is in an uproar about the 16 man loot drops right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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