Reno_Tarshil Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Right, you want everything just for you, and argue just so you can have it. Who cares if you have it? The point is it was EXCLUSIVE. Did you keep your Columi armor? Let me put it in better terms. Let's say you go to a store that is offering an exclusive thing you really want. You get there, and you are the first in line. You get your thing and are happy that you are the proud owner of a special thing, you showcase it, make it a centerpiece in your house, shine a light on it, or whatever. Then that company decides that they are going to sell them freely to anyone that wants it for a vastly cheaper price than you originally paid. Pennies on the dollar. You would be pretty mad they did that because it was originally promised as an exclusive thing. You are obviously a person that only wants what you cannot get, so your opinion is invalid as you are creating a situation in which other peoples actual money they spent for microtransaction items means nothing. That is not at all a healthy attitude and I pray that Bioware doesn't think like you since it will surely be the end of the game for collectors such as I. Someone else having the same thing as me, doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the thing I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfyde Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It's a very simple thing to understand: Exclusivity 'Exclusivity' is not impervious to change, especially in an mmo. Chances are that over a game's lifespan an initial investment (be that in time, currency,...) can and will be rendered obsolete by changing mechanics, tiers, expansions, etc. and become more easily attainable by people who join the game later. Something else becomes the new 'exclusive'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Blah, blah, I have shiny that you don't, so ha! That is what I hear... I suspect a lot of the people who bought packs back then aren't even playing anymore. You might be, but a lot of them aren't. At some point in time, enough time has passed that not enough people care anymore. Again, you obviously don't understand the overall issue here. At this rate, there will be no point in their cash shop since we can just get these slot machines to get what we want anyways. You are probably some casual that believes everyone should have the same thing. I've been playing long enough to acquire enough things that most people haven't seen before and never will acquire. Under your line of thought, and that other guy, you think everyone should have a Crate-O-Matic, and every other incredibly rare, or unobtainable item in the game because you want it. It doesn't work that way, but Bioware seems to think that customer money and loyalty means nothing with these slot machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eartharioch Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 no, you are not getting it. with droprate prior to jawa vendors change - sure I could make profit selling stuff, and have actualy. problem is - I couldn't afford to USE the stuff I crafted on more then a single character (and even then it was a crapshoot). that is when it became unprofitable and that is an issue for those of us who actualy "gasp" play the game outside of GTN pvp yet don't have unlimited hours to do both. mission droprates for purples are broken. but sure instead of fixing them, lets just nerf alternate sources >_> sux2bu, I guess? Mission drop rates aren't broken, they are what they have always been, and people who understand how they work do better than people who don't. But that's true of any system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) 'Exclusivity' is not impervious to change, especially in an mmo. Chances are that over a game's lifespan an initial investment (be that in time, currency,...) can and will be rendered obsolete by changing mechanics, tiers, expansions, etc. and become more easily attainable by people who join the game later. Something else becomes the new 'exclusive'. I accept most of that, however the issue is money was spent getting items from a cartel pack, and they are all limited in offer time. I wouldn't be raising as much of an issue about it if the packs were simply up for sale again. That would mean people would need to spend money to obtain them instead of rendering customers such as myself as worthless by offering these things to whoever can get to a slot machine with no cost to them. Tiers changing obviously makes it so I can't use my old Centurion implants or Battlemaster relics, but it does mean I can use the armor still, since its modular. In other MMO's it would be a case of it being a nostalgic gear set you leave in your bank, but armor like that has an infinite lifetime because it can be upgraded to whatever tier you desire. I don't care that people can obtain Campaign or Dread Guard gear super easily now, even though I spent months in my progression team back in the day pushing that content to get it. I do care that my monetary input is considered to be worthless by Bioware. THAT is worth getting salty over. Edited January 21, 2015 by TravelingNomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eartharioch Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Let me put it in better terms. Let's say you go to a store that is offering an exclusive thing you really want. You get there, and you are the first in line. You get your thing and are happy that you are the proud owner of a special thing, you showcase it, make it a centerpiece in your house, shine a light on it, or whatever. Then that company decides that they are going to sell them freely to anyone that wants it for a vastly cheaper price than you originally paid. Pennies on the dollar. You would be pretty mad they did that because it was originally promised as an exclusive thing. I might be. On the other hand, prior to making my purchase, I might want to consider how "exclusive" the thing actually is. I'd probably consider something that was hand crafted to be more exclusive than something that was copy+pasted. For physical objects, I might not be able to tell the difference between hand crafted and mass produced, but for "items" in a video game, I'm pretty sure it's infinitely reproducible. If you want exclusive, make sure to get a serial number on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistoVahn Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Complete *********. On the two servers where I have characters the mats are far more expensive than the items one can create with them. It's nonsense. I am a long-time sub and buy a ****-ton of Cartel Coins, and these slot machines with their ROI was one of the first truly worthwhile things in some time. I am seriously considering unsubbing, because I don't see the point of having all these cartel items I unlocked without being able to craft mods for all of them easily and not having to pay $50K to remove mods and put them in a new shell. THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfyde Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I accept most of that, however the issue is money was spent getting items from a cartel pack, and they are all limited in offer time. I wouldn't be raising as much of an issue about it if the packs were simply up for sale again. That would mean people would need to spend money to obtain them instead of rendering customers such as myself as worthless by offering these things to whoever can get to a slot machine with no cost to them. I somewhat see your point, even if I personally don't subscribe to it. However, the slot machine does only give newer players access to a fraction of what was initially in the first wave of Cartel Packs. A player joining today can buy an Acolyte's pack, get the machine and quickly obtain the reputation and certs from it, but that doesn't give that player access to the majority of what the original packs contained. Sure, he can get a Revan's mask, Nihilus' mask, a command throne and a meditation chair (which I think are the most exclusive items on that vendor?). But he can't get the rest of the Revan armor for example, or those other command chairs or thrones, etc. Most content of the original packs is still as exclusive as before. Edited January 21, 2015 by wolfyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 He has a point. If something is given a high price because it is promised to be exclusive, and then later becomes NOT exclusive and the price is dropped then he has a valid argument as had he known it was NOT going to be exclusive forever her probably would have waited to purchase it. nothing in the cartel packs was ever promised as exclusive. ever. some were embargoed, but they have often said they would be back. NOTHING he has was promised as exclusively his Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Dude, -I'm- a sociopath and think this guy is being a doof. My point is valid. I spent quite a bit of money on Cartel Coins, as I'm sure many other people have, and to have those purchases rendered worthless to get cool stuff is a very stupid thing to do to customers. Let me show you another perspective. Let's say they make a stupid slot machine for every pack that has ever come out. What is the drive for people to buy cartel packs anymore? You will be able to get all the cool stuff without needing to spend a penny. That then slows down all the people buying packs. How many people bought a ton of packs just to get the new Revan stuff? A ton of people. Those purchases help keep the game running. By releasing these things they are going to drastically reduce the amount of money people spend in microtransactions, because they can get what they want, and they will start to have financial issues. EA will simply pull the plug because it isn't profitable anymore, as we have seen happen in many games in the past. The Cartel Market keeps the game alive, and continuing to let people get the super items by just getting a ton of reputation and CM Certs will make the CM become pretty worthless. From a customer standpoint, it is a slap in the face to those of us that spent any amount of money to unbox goodies and hope to get some super rare item. Those super rare items won't be rare at all, they will be common, thus driving the desire to own them to less than nothing. Sure Revan masks will be the main focus of everyone because of KOTOR, but what about other items? In the end, it is a very stupid decision to have these slot machines spit out reputation and CM Certs. I don't care about mats, mounts, pets, or whatever, those can freely be there, but screwing over customers is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Someone else having the same thing as me, doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the thing I like. Oh my lord... I agree with you... I'm going to feint now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 In the end, it is a very stupid decision to have these slot machines spit out reputation and CM Certs. I don't care about mats, mounts, pets, or whatever, those can freely be there, but screwing over customers is a bad idea. Yeah, how dare they have an anti pay 2 win mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 nothing in the cartel packs was ever promised as exclusive. ever. some were embargoed, but they have often said they would be back. NOTHING he has was promised as exclusively his I was perfectly fine with them coming back as a cartel pack PURCHASED WITH REAL MONEY instead of getting it through stupid in game things other than buying it on the GTN. They can bring back all the packs if they'd like, but the slot machine is utterly unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So it went from "we'll look into the drop rates of jawa junk" to "we've changed the droprates of everything and increased the cost of using it"? Well, that escalated quickly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Again, you obviously don't understand the overall issue here. You sure love insulting people, don't you? I've been playing since 1.1, I have 21 toons and most of the shiny in the game, including the CM rancor and walker. Now new people have a walker. Do I care? No... I had it for awhile, that was enough. Now more people get the shiny... More power to them... Walkers for everyone! It is just digital 1s and 0s, any money paid is for the temporary enjoyment of shiny. Any illusion to the contrary is a misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yeah, how dare they have an anti pay 2 win mechanic. You obviously don't understand the entire point of what I wrote, nor do you understand why these are bad things. There is no such thing as P2W with cartel packs, it is all cosmetic crap. My point is they are simply devaluing customers. Learn what P2W really means before mentioning it again please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 You obviously don't understand the entire point of what I wrote, nor do you understand why these are bad things. There is no such thing as P2W with cartel packs, it is all cosmetic crap. My point is they are simply devaluing customers. Learn what P2W really means before mentioning it again please. Right, and you're ************ about cosmetic stuff. I'm the one who doesn't understand something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 You sure love insulting people, don't you? I've been playing since 1.1, I have 21 toons and most of the shiny in the game, including the CM rancor and walker. Now new people have a walker. Do I care? No... I had it for awhile, that was enough. Now more people get the shiny... More power to them... Walkers for everyone! It is just digital 1s and 0s, any money paid is for the temporary enjoyment of shiny. Any illusion to the contrary is a misunderstanding. But your walker is still different from the walker everyone can get. Like with my Champion set I have for my commando, they released a reskinned version of it. Do I care? No, because it isn't the same as a true Champion set. If they released that same walker people had to get to some ridiculous ranked PvP rating, I bet you might have a few words to say on the subject. And yes, I do enjoy having a bash at people now and then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 You obviously don't understand the entire point of what I wrote, nor do you understand why these are bad things. There is no such thing as P2W with cartel packs, it is all cosmetic crap. My point is they are simply devaluing customers. Learn what P2W really means before mentioning it again please. It has lvl 10 +41 max lvl 50 crystals, its P2W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I accept most of that, however the issue is money was spent getting items from a cartel pack, and they are all limited in offer time. I wouldn't be raising as much of an issue about it if the packs were simply up for sale again. That would mean people would need to spend money to obtain them instead of rendering customers such as myself as worthless by offering these things to whoever can get to a slot machine with no cost to them. Do you honestly expect your purchase to be exclusive to real money purchases until the end of time? Or at least until the game is shut down? One day, this will all end, there will come a day when the servers are turned off for the last time. What then? Perhaps as a going away present, for the last 60 days, every shiny is unlocked for everyone, free of charge, go nuts! Would that upset you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Right, and you're ************ about cosmetic stuff. I'm the one who doesn't understand something here? Nope. Take the Korrealis Baron for example. Its cosmetic, its a silly yellow and blue car mount. But its worth 300+ mil on any server. Why? Because you can't get it anymore. Will they bring it back? I hope not, and if they do the backlash would be monumental. My point is they charged money for the cosmetic stuff, I purchased it, as did many others, and they are now rendering us as worthless and letting people get things for free that other people spent a large amount of money on. If they brought the packs back, I wouldn't care anymore because people would have to buy into them in order to get items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfyde Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 My point is they are simply devaluing customers. I'll refer to my post above, and I did a quick count in-game as well; from the 147 items that were included int first wave of Cartel packs, a player with reputation and certificates can buy a selection of 10 from the reputation NPC. That means 137 items are still as exclusive as they ever were and cannot be obtained by playing the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It has lvl 10 +41 max lvl 50 crystals, its P2W That is true, but it is pretty thin at that... While those do provide a nice boost while leveling, they aren't required or the end all, be all of stats... P2W would be more serious if it was required to really play the game, or to have a fair chance at winning. The game is balanced to NOT require them in any form. They are just nice to have... I think Bioware gets that, which is why they have said the +41 isn't changing and they aren't doing it again. It is a mild form of it, but nothing to get bent over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Do you honestly expect your purchase to be exclusive to real money purchases until the end of time? Or at least until the game is shut down? One day, this will all end, there will come a day when the servers are turned off for the last time. What then? Perhaps as a going away present, for the last 60 days, every shiny is unlocked for everyone, free of charge, go nuts! Would that upset you? It would for me most definitely cause I and others have used real $ to purchase that service and if they change it, then that is not what we paid for and then selling content that was altered and not what you paid for is extremely shady and bad business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It would for me most definitely cause I and others have used real $ to purchase that service and if they change it, then that is not what we paid for and then selling content that was altered and not what you paid for is extremely shady and bad business. My girlfriend spent something like $200 on City of Heroes, not like she got it back when it shut down to feed GW2 while it was hemorrhaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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