ivanhedgehog Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So I decided to check up on the forum to see what the changes will be in the patch. All this talk about slot machines. SLOT MACHINES not being profitable? Has anyone heard of gambling? The saying about " The house always wins" ? Of course in gambling sometimes you get a pay day but statistically you are losing. Have I missed something? most casinos dont sell you the slot machine for 5 mill before you can use it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So I decided to check up on the forum to see what the changes will be in the patch. All this talk about slot machines. SLOT MACHINES not being profitable? Has anyone heard of gambling? The saying about " The house always wins" ? Of course in gambling sometimes you get a pay day but statistically you are losing. Have I missed something? You do know that for slot machines, the pay back percentage is around 75% right? So basically like it was in-game (since you got 75% of your money back from vending the rep items.) Whatever you happen to earn from selling the stuff you get with jawa scraps doesn't really count since it's highly variable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It's still not P2W because you can buy those off the GTN as well for in-game credits. Not to mention that "winning" at lvl 10 is hardly winning at all. so if they put a lightsaber hilt in the cm that give +50000 power, thats ok because it can be resold in the gtn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThEeLcOnDoR Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 They mention nothing about Launcher fixes or any other things that need to be fixed. Some who actually pay to play this game cannot even access it, so, basically, paying for nothing, and getting no help, no fix and NO compensation. I am far beyond dissatisfied by the inability to assist properly, and the lack of communication between the support members and the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 show me a non cm +41 that a level 10 can equip and enter a wz with. It gives a definite advantage that can not be gotten ANYWHERE else. that is by definition pay to win. you want exclusive, we got it...NOTHING in those packs was in any way exclusive. nothing if 100000 people bought the hypercrates, they all had an equal chance to get them. all it took was the cash. you can still get those packs when they unembargo them. getting farther from exclusive all the time...the closest you can get to it would be the pvp rancor and other season rewards. plenty of kill traders ended up with those. exclusive in this game is pointless. The new 3 color Crystals that are craftable, but does it affect much? No, not at all. You get +41 crystals at level 50 anyways, and no one puts any weight behind performance on characters below level 60, so what was your point gain? If you don't have a +41 crystal, which EVERY weapon comes with at lvl 50+ by the way, then I am amazed that you didn't know that existed since launch. If it was a +51 crystal that you could only get from cartel packs, then you might have a point, but that isn't the case so your point is invalid. You don't understand P2W at all, nor do you understand the original issue to begin with, making nonsensical arguments. Please research before you comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elracor Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 show me a non cm +41 that a level 10 can equip and enter a wz with. It gives a definite advantage that can not be gotten ANYWHERE else. that is by definition pay to win. you want exclusive, we got it...NOTHING in those packs was in any way exclusive. nothing if 100000 people bought the hypercrates, they all had an equal chance to get them. all it took was the cash. you can still get those packs when they unembargo them. getting farther from exclusive all the time...the closest you can get to it would be the pvp rancor and other season rewards. plenty of kill traders ended up with those. exclusive in this game is pointless. I would say this is a lot more about the Bolster mechanic being TERRIBLE than CM crystals being p2w. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkNecroCrusher Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Machine nerf to benefit Cartel whales stockpiling Jawa scraps from packs - 1 week. Underlurker & Coratanni bugs - 2 months This ^ When it's not about money, BW is slower than a slug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 most casinos dont sell you the slot machine for 5 mill before you can use it If the slots paid out like this one did the past week, they might well have to sell them for 5 million first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 so if they put a lightsaber hilt in the cm that give +50000 power, thats ok because it can be resold in the gtn? I think most reasonable people can see the difference between a +41 power and a +50000 power crystal. If you can't... well, we can't help you... If it bothers you, go play something else, the +41 crystals aren't going anywhere at this point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 you want exclusive, we got it...NOTHING in those packs was in any way exclusive. nothing if 100000 people bought the hypercrates, they all had an equal chance to get them. all it took was the cash. you can still get those packs when they unembargo them. getting farther from exclusive all the time...the closest you can get to it would be the pvp rancor and other season rewards. plenty of kill traders ended up with those. exclusive in this game is pointless. That wasn't my point at all. My point, as it has been this whole time, is we bought these packs when they were around. We spent real money on them. We bought LOTS of them. The fact that people can now just use a slot machine and get items that were only available in packs people PURCHASED with REAL MONEY, is what I am unhappy about. Getting the reputation tokens is also irritating. I spent a ton of money to get my rep up for the first cartel pack maxed, so when people do it now with no real effort or up front cost, it makes me unhappy and frustrates me as a consumer. If they become unembargoed, gread, buy them and add more stuff to the item population, but letting people buy things that didn't involve someone paying for it, i.e. using the CM Certs and getting the CM Rep, that is what I am against. I don't care if they bring back the original pack with Revan masks and everyone buys them and everyone magically gets Revan masks, thats fine because people had to spend their cash to make that happen. There has to be a point to BUYING things from the cash shop, otherwise people won't spend money and they will lose revenue. I KNEW they would bring the packs back at a later date, but not do something as stupid as the slot machines, especially since they seem intent on having one for each pack apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 They mention nothing about Launcher fixes or any other things that need to be fixed. Some who actually pay to play this game cannot even access it, so, basically, paying for nothing, and getting no help, no fix and NO compensation. I am far beyond dissatisfied by the inability to assist properly, and the lack of communication between the support members and the community. This should not be news... I've been saying it for months... I said it back when GSF launched, I said it when GSH launched... The money isn't there for a proper dev team anymore... I'm sure the one they have is trying their best, but they lack the staff and the funds to run this game properly... It costs very little to change a slot machine and toss out a reskinned walker, it costs a lot to actually fix game bugs and launcher bugs... It isn't likely to improve either, unless EA decides to increase the funding for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) When it's not about money, BW is slower than a slug. Dev: "OH NOES, PEOPLE CAN MAKE MILLIONS OF CREDITS REALLY EASY BY DOING NOTHING!" Lead Dev: "We can't have that! NERF IT!" Dev: "But we have bug fixing to get done on the new opera-" Lead Dev: "NONESENSE! IN GAME ECONOMY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FIXING CONTENT!" Edited January 21, 2015 by TravelingNomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divona Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So the walker mount is the same what drops from new FP's both sides? Kinda sad they didnt put something special or unique. I guess i pass after patch using slot machine. What will people do with extra rep items? Just vendor trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I would say this is a lot more about the Bolster mechanic being TERRIBLE than CM crystals being p2w. Yep... The only real way to do bolster would be to give everyone the exact same stats and totally ignore gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This should not be news... I've been saying it for months... I said it back when GSF launched, I said it when GSH launched... The money isn't there for a proper dev team anymore... I'm sure the one they have is trying their best, but they lack the staff and the funds to run this game properly... It costs very little to change a slot machine and toss out a reskinned walker, it costs a lot to actually fix game bugs and launcher bugs... It isn't likely to improve either, unless EA decides to increase the funding for the game. I would agree with you on the launcher bit, that can get pretty nasty, but the content should be pretty easy to fix. I'm not saying I'm a master programmer, though I do know a bit, but with the tools that were made to create this game, it should be pretty easy to sort things out. I mean, how hard is it to change Underlurker not be in 16man mode in 8man? They have to have some tools that they use when creating new content to change things easily. I know they have a small budget, but they are really tanking this latest expansion hard. They haven't even fixed content that has been out for a considerable length of time like Dread Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yep... The only real way to do bolster would be to give everyone the exact same stats and totally ignore gear... Which would be great for sub 60 pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 That wasn't my point at all. My point, as it has been this whole time, is we bought these packs when they were around. We spent real money on them. We bought LOTS of them. The fact that people can now just use a slot machine and get items that were only available in packs people PURCHASED with REAL MONEY, is what I am unhappy about. Getting the reputation tokens is also irritating. I spent a ton of money to get my rep up for the first cartel pack maxed, so when people do it now with no real effort or up front cost, it makes me unhappy and frustrates me as a consumer. If this makes you unhappy, might I suggest that you don't have much to be concerned about in your life? You had access to those items for a long time, now more people do. This is really a minor thing... If you're that upset, well, perhaps you shouldn't spend money on electronic games that are subject to change at any time... I am willing to bet 50 credits that if you go read the terms of service, you agree that Bioware has the right to do exactly this. You were never promised what you think you're entitled to, in fact it probably says in black and white that you ARE NOT entitled to what you think you should have. I get that you don't feel it is "right", but you are not going to win this one. Either let it go and accept that the money you paid was for a limited period of time of exclusivity, or quit playing. Because frankly, it isn't going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfyde Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The money isn't there for a proper dev team anymore... I'm sure the one they have is trying their best, but they lack the staff and the funds to run this game properly... I've been wondering about that, how many people actually still work on this game. The tricklerate of new content, the limited scope of the expansion, the ease with which bugs and glitches sneak into live launches, and then the snailpace response time with fixes... It does feel like it's being run by the barest of skeleton crews, struggling to keep head above water with their workload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I would agree with you on the launcher bit, that can get pretty nasty, but the content should be pretty easy to fix. I'm not saying I'm a master programmer, though I do know a bit, but with the tools that were made to create this game, it should be pretty easy to sort things out. I mean, how hard is it to change Underlurker not be in 16man mode in 8man? They have to have some tools that they use when creating new content to change things easily. I know they have a small budget, but they are really tanking this latest expansion hard. They haven't even fixed content that has been out for a considerable length of time like Dread Palace. I've been in software development for many years (business software, not games)... Changing one small thing on a boss in a raid can break all sorts of things. The only way to do it "right" is to test it after you change it. The testing often costs FAR more than the change does. So they may well wait until they fix all the known issues with the operation and then test it that way. Making lots of little changes leads to the sort of thing that happened with 16 man GF ops... What is the big deal, it is just a change from 8 to 16, what could that break? It broke so much they had to undo the change in an emergency game patch. Like I said, the devs are probably doing the best they can, I am not accusing them of being lazy or not caring, rather I'm saying that management isn't giving them the resources to do it properly. My complaints are against the company, not the devs personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I've been wondering about that, how many people actually still work on this game. The tricklerate of new content, the limited scope of the expansion, the ease with which bugs and glitches sneak into live launches, and then the snailpace response time with fixes... It does feel like it's being run by the barest of skeleton crews, struggling to keep head above water with their workload. We will see within the next couple months what they are able to accomplish. If they make little to no headway, I am going to start going with the game will die soon, but I don't see that happening. They are making too much money from the CM to risk losing so many people, but who knows, they might just be that incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Which would be great for sub 60 pvp Why not for all PvP? Are you playing against someone else's skill, or their brute force grind to max gear? Gear doesn't make up for stupid, but it does make a difference between an average player and a slightly better one. Why not make PvP about skill? Give everyone the same max level PvP gear stats and see who really is any good. If you beat me, fair enough, if it is because you are better, good for you. If it is actually because you have been grinding for weeks and simply have better stats, well then your victory doesn't mean much, does it? Unless people just like epeens I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I've been in software development for many years (business software, not games)... Changing one small thing on a boss in a raid can break all sorts of things. The only way to do it "right" is to test it after you change it. The testing often costs FAR more than the change does. So they may well wait until they fix all the known issues with the operation and then test it that way. Making lots of little changes leads to the sort of thing that happened with 16 man GF ops... What is the big deal, it is just a change from 8 to 16, what could that break? It broke so much they had to undo the change in an emergency game patch. Like I said, the devs are probably doing the best they can, I am not accusing them of being lazy or not caring, rather I'm saying that management isn't giving them the resources to do it properly. My complaints are against the company, not the devs personally. From what I've seen, the devs aren't particularly skilled at the game, and I'm not entirely surprised, a lot of devs aren't that good at games they make. They are likely busy with day to day things in maintaining such a large game. However, I am sure there are plenty of people that would love to help QA raids and changes to raids as a raid team. Why they don't just hire some people from the community to test out a raid boss for a week is beyond me. There are a ton of talented bleeding edge raiders out there that could definitely help them tweak things to where they need to be. Hell, I'm sure there are people that would do it for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingNomad Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Why not for all PvP? Are you playing against someone else's skill, or their brute force grind to max gear? Gear doesn't make up for stupid, but it does make a difference between an average player and a slightly better one. Why not make PvP about skill? Give everyone the same max level PvP gear stats and see who really is any good. If you beat me, fair enough, if it is because you are better, good for you. If it is actually because you have been grinding for weeks and simply have better stats, well then your victory doesn't mean much, does it? Unless people just like epeens I guess... I would prefer it to be that way as well, but the PvP players will whine about not getting an incentive, and it would be a lot of complaining about them spending hours and hours to grind gear for it to be worthless, blah blah blah. The PvP players would just poop all over that idea and claim that the game was "casual" or "not competitive enough". I figure that everyone would at least agree that all sub 60 PvP should have everyone evened out, so that's why I went down that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 From what I've seen, the devs aren't particularly skilled at the game, and I'm not entirely surprised, a lot of devs aren't that good at games they make. They are likely busy with day to day things in maintaining such a large game. However, I am sure there are plenty of people that would love to help QA raids and changes to raids as a raid team. Why they don't just hire some people from the community to test out a raid boss for a week is beyond me. There are a ton of talented bleeding edge raiders out there that could definitely help them tweak things to where they need to be. Hell, I'm sure there are people that would do it for free. Because that costs money. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 We will see within the next couple months what they are able to accomplish. If they make little to no headway, I am going to start going with the game will die soon, but I don't see that happening. They are making too much money from the CM to risk losing so many people, but who knows, they might just be that incompetent. They already are making little to no headway... Entire games are created in the timeframes we're look at and what do we have? Even if you roll up everything for a 2 year period from 2.0 to 3.0, you're looking at 3 planets, a few daily areas, a few raids, a few flashpoints, a space mini game that might justify $5 on Steam, and housing that... well... is what it is... In that time, games such as Infamous Second Son, DA:I, Watch Dogs, and The Witcher 3 were developed... all with a whole lot more content than SWTOR has seen. SWTOR is now 3 years old... Given a proper budget and a proper dev team, they could have done the next 3 chapters of class stories in that time. Not with the current budget of course, but they have had the time to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts