The most powerful Soldier

[dcaleb]

I'm not sure about Rebels yet since it just started, but TCW was great and I won't hear of any slander against it.

 

Also, if we are discussing things shouldn't be canon then nothing written by Karen Traviss should be canon. And definitely not that stupid BS where Jaina went to the Mandalorians for training and got her *** kicked by a decrepit Boba Fett. Also, lol at the idea of an army of 3 million for a Republic of 1.3 million planets.

[TalonVII]

Wolf disagrees:

 

Far as my source for taking down the battalion, it's the Star Wars Guidebook to characters. Granted it's the one that was released right after SW EP II, but you can read about it. And I consider that pretty close to Canon.

 

Edit: IIRC the target he was hunting was in the fortress with a battalion between Boba and his target. Just to show he was still a BAMF he took them all out then got his target.

Edited January 24, 2015 by TalonVII

[CaulderBenson]

Far as my source for taking down the battalion, it's the Star Wars Guidebook to characters. Granted it's the one that was released right after SW EP II, but you can read about it. And I consider that pretty close to Canon.

 

Edit: IIRC the target he was hunting was in the fortress with a battalion between Boba and his target. Just to show he was still a BAMF he took them all out then got his target.

 

You're thinking of "No Disintegrations, please." the short story from Tales from the New Repulblic, if I'm not mistaken.

Edited January 24, 2015 by CaulderBenson

[StarSquirrel]

I'm not sure about Rebels yet since it just started, but TCW was great and I won't hear of any slander against it.

 

Also, if we are discussing things shouldn't be canon then nothing written by Karen Traviss should be canon. And definitely not that stupid BS where Jaina went to the Mandalorians for training and got her *** kicked by a decrepit Boba Fett. Also, lol at the idea of an army of 3 million for a Republic of 1.3 million planets.

You think TCW is good storytelling yet you despise Karen Traviss? Wow...

 

No we're going to have to ignore you now...

 

Also your logic is bad considering your supposed issues were addressed quite in depth in Traviss's books. I'd suggest actually reading them before trashing them. If you have read them then you obviously dont remember them and are running off of emotional reactions.

 

"Stupid BS" is an emotional and childish response to a canon fact. Sorry but while it hurts you feelings it still haopened. Chill out.

 

Personally I enjoyed both though the Clone Commando books are better stories. And I respect the TCW's rewrite of some of the Commando's story, but you're avocation of listing a vast improvement to the SW lore as non-canon... well you're off base.

Edited January 24, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[Selenial]

Always hated Traviss myself, and you can't exactly get angry at him for disliking her when she's probably up there with Karpyshyn as to the most disliked Author in the Star Wars continuity.

 

Whether it's a fair judgement or not is neither here nor there, but it's a popular opinion.

[Ghisallo]

Well here is my take, since the real point of the OP is about Units and not individuals. An individual can simply be noted in order to illustrate the effectiveness of the Unit being judged...

 

We can never say. The Star Wars universe is notorious for how badly it depicts the military. The have so many sub specializations it isn't funny. Units the specialize in infiltration, units that specialize in taking enemy bunkers. Yes in RL we have units that specialize in ship boarding, Antiterrorism operations but in the Star Wars Universe there almost seem to have units that specialize in just about every facet.

 

Because of this crazy degree of specialization you can't really pick a best because they are almost all the best at Something.

 

I also would not call the Mandos, at least during the days of the old republic and before a "Special Forces" unit. They are almost a galaxy wide Street Gang based on the warrior ethos. I do not mean street gang as a prejoritive BTW. Unlike other warrior cultures of the Canon and EU, or even RL, it seems that in the time of TOR almost anyone can be "jumped in" regardless of species, if they are deemed worthy. Other warrior cultures either have a racial/ethnic superiority complex or only allow conquered people to join...eventually. Being a bad *** soldier doesn't make you special ops. I see the Mandos as a whole as simply a kick *** disciplined force as a whole. However this does make them Specops.

[StarSquirrel]

Always hated Traviss myself, and you can't exactly get angry at him for disliking her when she's probably up there with Karpyshyn as to the most disliked Author in the Star Wars continuity.

 

Whether it's a fair judgement or not is neither here nor there, but it's a popular opinion.

I honestly never understood the hate. She wrote from a perspective of non-Force users and gace them more human qualities... she was also fantastic for her challenging of the use of the Republic's slave army. Both were elements severely lacking in SW. All her stuff had to be pre approved before being published as well so it is hardly like anyone can fault just her for this stuff.

 

And I do understand the dislike of Karpyshyn but I just sign on to that cause I dislike his storytelling and writing style but I care less about his canon influence.

 

Either way it is mute point. They're both canon so we have to deal with it regardless.

[fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg]

What would be a real interesting thread is finding the best soldiers in a star wars as well as other sci-fi material such as Jem'Hadar from DS9 or Jaffa from SG1.

 

Back on topic though, I would have to go for the Stormtrooper corps (or at least the stormtroopers seen at the beginning of ANH and all the ones that were not in the movies afterwards:p).

From they way the pre-retcon EU described them, they were an army of loyal fanatics with high-tech gear, multiple specializations, and numbers in the millions (or more).

[raandomname]

So the actual reason for avoiding Clone Wars and Rebels is to avoid arguments such as"stormtroopers cant hit anything", "clone troopers get their butts kicked by B2s" and "the Mandalorian Protectors dont exist, because the Mandos are all pacifists". I edited the OP to clarify on this.

I see no reason to exclude Karen Traviss' work, because the main gripe that people seem to have, Boba vs Jaina, is not relevant to this discussion, because neither Boba nor Jaina are soldiers.

Btw I agree 100% with you Star, but who likes/dislikes Karen Traviss and who likes likes/dislikes Clone Wars is a subject for an entirely different thread. Although I brought this topic up myself with my hostility towards Clone Wars, it is not relevent to the thread and I suggest moving on from the discussion.

[Ghisallo]

I'm not sure about Rebels yet since it just started, but TCW was great and I won't hear of any slander against it.

 

Also, if we are discussing things shouldn't be canon then nothing written by Karen Traviss should be canon. And definitely not that stupid BS where Jaina went to the Mandalorians for training and got her *** kicked by a decrepit Boba Fett. Also, lol at the idea of an army of 3 million for a Republic of 1.3 million planets.

 

Well I always saw the Jaina/Fett thing as making sense. She went there to learn something new...how to straight up, knock down, drag out fight. Look at Fett like a "decrepit" warrior in a Kung Fu Epic or Jidaigeki. They do indeed look old and decrepit. Maybe they sleep a lot or whatever. But... http://youtu.be/ETTsJggQl3I. Now while Thurman sucks...her character is supposed to be one of the most dangerous assassins in the world.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Ghisallo

[TalonVII]

I still have to say though most powerful soldier overall, probably has to go to Boba Fett. And thanks to the person who figured out the story I was looking for.

 

Far as team. Hands down Delta Squad. What was more fun then having a full team doing breach and clears, holding positions trained in everything from assassination to bunker busting to interdiction and everything in between?

[raandomname]

I still have to say though most powerful soldier overall, probably has to go to Boba Fett. And thanks to the person who figured out the story I was looking for.

 

Far as team. Hands down Delta Squad. What was more fun then having a full team doing breach and clears, holding positions trained in everything from assassination to bunker busting to interdiction and everything in between?

Boba Fett isnt a soldier. Hes a bounty hunter.

[StarSquirrel]

Boba Fett isnt a soldier. Hes a bounty hunter.

In the Vong War he was definately a soldier...

 

He was a Mercenary raandomname. Mercs are soldiers, hired solders, but still soldiers.

[raandomname]

In the Vong War he was definately a soldier...

 

He was a Mercenary raandomname. Mercs are soldiers, hired solders, but still soldiers.

Ill put it up for discussion.

[Ghisallo]

Ill put it up for discussion.

 

Mercs are indeed soldier. The only difference between a Merc and a "Soldier" is WHY they fight. The Merc is seen as fighting for cash (though they can fight for a "cause"... The Swiss Guard of the Vatican and the Flying Tigers of WWII come to mind) and the Soldier fights for his country.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Ghisallo

[JeffrenBrek]

Not a fan of TCW/Rebels, but Traviss' work is just as bad. I mean, it's just utterly laughable how overpowered she makes the Mandalorians in LOTF. Two random Mandalorians nearly kill Jacen in Revelation, Tahiri gets outright destroyed by random Mandalorians, the superb uber Mandalorians single handedly beat back anything the Vong threw at them, and after about two Chapters in Sacrifice the entire galaxy is scared of Mandalore because reasons.

 

If that's not favoritism, I don't know what is.

[StarSquirrel]

Not a fan of TCW/Rebels, but Traviss' work is just as bad. I mean, it's just utterly laughable how overpowered she makes the Mandalorians in LOTF. Two random Mandalorians nearly kill Jacen in Revelation, Tahiri gets outright destroyed by random Mandalorians, the superb uber Mandalorians single handedly beat back anything the Vong threw at them, and after about two Chapters in Sacrifice the entire galaxy is scared of Mandalore because reasons.

 

If that's not favoritism, I don't know what is.

 

At least one instance in there wasn't Traviss... (she never wrote an NJO book and the events she mentions are snippets than align perfectly with canon)

 

The two random Mandalorians get slaughtered by Jacen, I don't recall Jacen ever having trouble with them...

 

Tahiri is never considered an exceptional jedi in combat, while the Mandalorians you refer to are part of the Mando Ori'ramikade, aka the top 100 Mandalorian commandos in existence hand-picked by Boba Fett.

 

And the galaxy isn't scared, but do recall that the last time Mandalorians came into possession of large quantities of beskar and high-rate tech (via the Verpine-Mandalorian alliance which is what bothered people) they nearly destroyed the Republic (a fact I believe was mentioned in the book, though I might be mistaken)...

 

Now, are her stories more Mando centric? Yes, of course, she is the foremost expert in Mando culture in SW having created most of the details of that culture.

 

Do they make Mandos OP? In some respects sure, but no more than a lot of writers like Aaron Allston or Drew Karpyshyn make gods out of their favorite Jedi/Sith or Zahn made Thrawn infallible.

 

Regardless, I understand that people don't like her. I just see the blind hatred as a bandwagon thing though. I don't expect everyone to go out and say she's the best, but I don't hear these complaints about Michael Stackpole, Denning, or Zahn (who made the most OP non-force user ever btw). It is just obnoxious to keep hearing.

 

Everyone has their preferences, and those preferences tend to shine in their books.

Edited January 25, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[JeffrenBrek]

At least one instance in there wasn't Traviss... (she never wrote an NJO book and the events she mentions are snippets than align perfectly with canon)

 

The two random Mandalorians get slaughtered by Jacen, I don't recall Jacen ever having trouble with them...

 

Tahiri is never considered an exceptional jedi in combat, while the Mandalorians you refer to are part of the Mando Ori'ramikade, aka the top 100 Mandalorian commandos in existence hand-picked by Boba Fett.

 

And the galaxy isn't scared, but do recall that the last time Mandalorians came into possession of large quantities of beskar and high-rate tech (via the Verpine-Mandalorian alliance which is what bothered people) they nearly destroyed the Republic (a fact I believe was mentioned in the book, though I might be mistaken)...

 

Now, are her stories more Mando centric? Yes, of course, she is the foremost expert in Mando culture in SW having created most of the details of that culture.

 

Do they make Mandos OP? In some respects sure, but no more than a lot of writers like Aaron Allston or Drew Karpyshyn make gods out of their favorite Jedi/Sith or Zahn made Thrawn infallible.

 

Regardless, I understand that people don't like her. I just see the blind hatred as a bandwagon thing though. I don't expect everyone to go out and say she's the best, but I don't hear these complaints about Michael Stackpole, Denning, or Zahn (who made the most OP non-force user ever btw). It is just obnoxious to keep hearing.

 

Everyone has their preferences, and those preferences tend to shine in their books.

 

Not quite correct. All we know about Mandalore during the Yuuzhan Vong war came from Traviss' LOTF books and her E-Novella Boba Fett: A practical Man, unless you want to count the small cameo Boba has in the final NJO book.

 

And no, he does have trouble with them. They even manage to slash his knee or leg, if I recall correctly. He does s laughter a bunch of Mandalorians in Invincible, but that was different book by a different author.

 

I agree, Tahiri is certainly not a top-tier Force User of the area but she's no push over either. She should be able to handle a few Mandalorians given the ordeals she went through. But her character got utterly butchered post NJO anyways, so who knows where Tahiri stands.

 

I concede that point. What annoyed me was the fact that suddenly everyone got scared of the Mandalorians. New technology or not, they were still pretty ravaged and had no real manpower. A few elite Commandos that can take on an army? Sure. Enough to wage a galactic wide war? No. But this is only a minor point.

 

I don't mind that. What I mind is the needless amount of Mandalorian that has nothing to do with the plot. I felt Bobas Wife plot was completely out of place and served no purpose at all. I feel the same about her Republic Commando novels. I absolutely loved the first one, the second was okay but after that it turned into a Mando Lovefest/Jedi bashing affair. On the other hand, I do agree she gets a lot of unjustified stick, like how Mara died. I felt that was handled perfectly well and don't quite understand the complaints.

[dcaleb]

You think TCW is good storytelling yet you despise Karen Traviss? Wow...

 

No we're going to have to ignore you now...

 

Also your logic is bad considering your supposed issues were addressed quite in depth in Traviss's books. I'd suggest actually reading them before trashing them. If you have read them then you obviously dont remember them and are running off of emotional reactions.

 

"Stupid BS" is an emotional and childish response to a canon fact. Sorry but while it hurts you feelings it still haopened. Chill out.

 

Personally I enjoyed both though the Clone Commando books are better stories. And I respect the TCW's rewrite of some of the Commando's story, but you're avocation of listing a vast improvement to the SW lore as non-canon... well you're off base.

 

It had it's low points, but overall it was pretty good and introduced a lot of EU concepts into top tier canon so that they survived the Disney purge.

 

If there was an explanation in the books I found to be satisfactory I wouldn't be complaining about the stuff that happened. I mean, the number of clone soldiers in particular is just ridiculous and instead of admitting 'yeah, I didn't think the scale through' she doubled down and insisted that the Republic was fighting a galaxy spanning war with an army smaller then some of the ones fielded by individual countries back during WW2. Hell, at the low end estimate the number of Soviet soldiers killed is nearly triple the size of the entire Republic army at 8,700,000 and at the high end it is over quadruple that number.

[Ghisallo]

It had it's low points, but overall it was pretty good and introduced a lot of EU concepts into top tier canon so that they survived the Disney purge.

 

If there was an explanation in the books I found to be satisfactory I wouldn't be complaining about the stuff that happened. I mean, the number of clone soldiers in particular is just ridiculous and instead of admitting 'yeah, I didn't think the scale through' she doubled down and insisted that the Republic was fighting a galaxy spanning war with an army smaller then some of the ones fielded by individual countries back during WW2. Hell, at the low end estimate the number of Soviet soldiers killed is nearly triple the size of the entire Republic army at 8,700,000 and at the high end it is over quadruple that number.

 

Yeah but is the size really key? I look at it this way. Yeah they have interstellar travel but by all accounts most people are born, live and die on the same planet, never going to another. Moving massive amounts of troops around is not easy. Look at the size of the USA's military budget today (almost 25% of the total budget). A good portion of that is spent on the simple logistics of supporting, and moving, the force.

 

So it would not be "off" to say that instead of numbers of soldiers they instead spend money on training and equipping said soldiers to minimize the logistical headaches of supporting AND transporting massive numbers of troops.

[dcaleb]

Yeah but is the size really key? I look at it this way. Yeah they have interstellar travel but by all accounts most people are born, live and die on the same planet, never going to another. Moving massive amounts of troops around is not easy. Look at the size of the USA's military budget today (almost 25% of the total budget). A good portion of that is spent on the simple logistics of supporting, and moving, the force.

 

So it would not be "off" to say that instead of numbers of soldiers they instead spend money on training and equipping said soldiers to minimize the logistical headaches of supporting AND transporting massive numbers of troops.

 

Look, lets very generously assume that only 1 Republic planet in 10 is important enough to warrant a dedicated defensive garrison, that reduces the number of planets they actively defend from 1, 300,000 to 130,000 thousand. Lets also ignore the fact that some of the clones are assigned to the roving military commands of guys like Obi-Wan and Anakin who go where they are needed instead of being assigned to a single stationary location so that the full 3,000,000 clone army is dedicated solely to garrison duty defending locations from enemy attack. This gives you entire planets whose entire military presence consists of 23 people.

 

I don't care how elite their training is or how awesome their equipment is, 23 people can't hold an entire planet.

[StarSquirrel]

Lets also remember that the Republic has plenty of partisan forces, resistance forces, and system militaries to support them...

 

You're clueless to the actual political and military situation in the galaxy aren't you?

 

For instance, Lama Su says to Kenobi in Esp. II, "200,000 units are ready, with a million more well on the way"

 

So we know the clone army circa 22 BBY was about 1,200,000 strong. This instantly invalidates anything you've said.

 

But lets move on. All garrisons are manned primarily by domestic security forces and planetary armies. Onderon was liberated by rebels. Ryloth was reinforced by clones but a large portion of their force was Twi'lek. Various other planets all are shown to have their own militaries capable of fighting the CIS. The Clones are used to respond to instances where the CIS throws enough of its forces in a fight to overwhelm said planetary defences.

 

Also, aside from Geonosis can you think of a single battle in which more than a few thousand or even tens of thousands of clones fought at any given time? I can't. Think about how mobile the Third Systems Army was...

 

Clones do not compose the majority of the Republic's military force. They are the elites used to conquer or liberate planets strategic to the Republic War effort. Every American in WWII wasn't in an Airborne division were they? No. Think of the Clones as an elite vanguard of the military, not the end-all be-all of it.

[dcaleb]

Lets also remember that the Republic has plenty of partisan forces, resistance forces, and system militaries to support them...

 

You're clueless to the actual political and military situation in the galaxy aren't you?

 

For instance, Lama Su says to Kenobi in Esp. II, "200,000 units are ready, with a million more well on the way"

 

So we know the clone army circa 22 BBY was about 1,200,000 strong. This instantly invalidates anything you've said.

 

But lets move on. All garrisons are manned primarily by domestic security forces and planetary armies. Onderon was liberated by rebels. Ryloth was reinforced by clones but a large portion of their force was Twi'lek. Various other planets all are shown to have their own militaries capable of fighting the CIS. The Clones are used to respond to instances where the CIS throws enough of its forces in a fight to overwhelm said planetary defences.

 

Also, aside from Geonosis can you think of a single battle in which more than a few thousand or even tens of thousands of clones fought at any given time? I can't. Think about how mobile the Third Systems Army was...

 

Clones do not compose the majority of the Republic's military force. They are the elites used to conquer or liberate planets strategic to the Republic War effort. Every American in WWII wasn't in an Airborne division were they? No. Think of the Clones as an elite vanguard of the military, not the end-all be-all of it.

 

I'm sure all of those resistance forces that popped up after their planet was already conquered did the planets a lot of good before they were conquered. Seriously though, do you know how terrible of an idea it is to leave defense of your assets up to some other dude whose standards may or may not be garbage and have the possibility of turning traitor or otherwise not having your best interests in mind? There is a reason real world countries garrison their own forces in their holdings instead of turning to the locals and saying 'hey, we feel like you totally got this and will just let you do it while we dick around and don't help you out until you have already been attacked'.

 

This hinges entirely on the assumption that a unit is a single clone instead of being a group consisting of more then 1 clone. There is nothing supporting that assumption beyond you wanting Traviss to be right when she gives out a stupid number that can't possibly be high enough to wage war on a galactic level.

 

Name one planet whose domestic security force helped repel an invasion, and as mentioned in the first part of my post groups that popped up after the fact to resist their conquerors don't count because they obviously weren't there to stop the initial push. And honestly, even if it was true and every clone was dedicated to responding to attacks after the fact and taking territory from the enemy 3 million still wouldn't be enough. Back in WW2 the Axis powers (mostly Germany) sent in 4 million soldiers during Operation Barbarossa alone. 4 million soldiers to invade a single (if large) country, and it was a total failure to boot! So if Germany couldn't even take a single chunk of a single planet with 4 million soldiers then how the hell is the Republic going to do **** when their entire offensive force is 3 million soldiers and the stage is the entire galaxy?

[Lucianthisis]

1.2 million is a tiny army for liberating or conquering any real planet. sorry but in intergalactic terms numbers reach truly "astronomical" size. On a single planet(Earth) current military forces of countries with standing military forces above a thousand combined is equal to 67.1 million rounding each force down to the thousand, so 1,999 became 1,000 in my math, I just ignored anything in the hundreds row and any country with less the 1,000 became 0. So my number is lower than the actual number. This number does not include, private military forces not employed by countries, the forces of unrecognized countries/organizations (e.g. gangs, terrorist organizations, Islamic State), nor does it account for retired but physically capable of serving individuals. So I find 1.2 million a hard to swallow number even for an "elite vanguard force that will be followed by the holding force" on an intergalactic scale. Sorry for the rant, but I really dislike it when the numbers in space operas seem to have no basis in real life, I would prefer they just used many, lots, vast, or other descriptions than use a real number that seems to just be ridiculous for the size of the galaxy.

[StarSquirrel]

I'm sure all of those resistance forces that popped up after their planet was already conquered did the planets a lot of good before they were conquered. Seriously though, do you know how terrible of an idea it is to leave defense of your assets up to some other dude whose standards may or may not be garbage and have the possibility of turning traitor or otherwise not having your best interests in mind? There is a reason real world countries garrison their own forces in their holdings instead of turning to the locals and saying 'hey, we feel like you totally got this and will just let you do it while we dick around and don't help you out until you have already been attacked'.

 

This hinges entirely on the assumption that a unit is a single clone instead of being a group consisting of more then 1 clone. There is nothing supporting that assumption beyond you wanting Traviss to be right when she gives out a stupid number that can't possibly be high enough to wage war on a galactic level.

 

Name one planet whose domestic security force helped repel an invasion, and as mentioned in the first part of my post groups that popped up after the fact to resist their conquerors don't count because they obviously weren't there to stop the initial push. And honestly, even if it was true and every clone was dedicated to responding to attacks after the fact and taking territory from the enemy 3 million still wouldn't be enough. Back in WW2 the Axis powers (mostly Germany) sent in 4 million soldiers during Operation Barbarossa alone. 4 million soldiers to invade a single (if large) country, and it was a total failure to boot! So if Germany couldn't even take a single chunk of a single planet with 4 million soldiers then how the hell is the Republic going to do **** when their entire offensive force is 3 million soldiers and the stage is the entire galaxy?

 

I want you to show me a single time in the entire SW universe that the CIS initiated an attack with 6 million+ droids.

 

Subjugating a planet isn't about occupying the whole thing. It is about winning the hearts and minds of the people and getting them on your side, or at least their government who can then control the population. TCW series, btw, not only reinforces Traviss's position, but adds to it with the Republic Military Enhancement Bill which was passed in the wake of the attack on the InterGalactic Banking Clan. It calls for an extra 5 million clones.

 

But lets assume for one crazy moment that you're right: So Syfo Dias shows up and promises (without official sanction from the Republic) and asks for the Kaminoans to build him a Galaxy-conquering army of clones in 10 years. And of course the Kaminoans who normally do mining contracts and such, jump at the chance and throw all their resources into it and so a single species on a single planet with a process that takes 10 years to mature their clones manages to have the production capacity to build Billions of soldiers in their first batch on the promise of payment and the assumption that they have the production facilities already? Sounds totally reasonable.

 

Also consider the cost, logistics, consumables etc... I mean, you have to feed an army of Billions-Trillions. Good luck hiding that from the galaxy for 10 years.

 

Flying 1 million men through space is a lot more expensive than training and supplying a few hundred thousand partisans who are dedicated to defending their planet right? Clones are shock troopers not the end-all, be-all of the army.

 

Also, have you read Hard Contact? Or True Colors? or seen any of the Clone Wars tv series? or read the novelization of AotC?

 

All are unanimously in agreement that the Clones composed a small but critical element of the war effort. They defended the Union of the planets, not the planets themselves. I'm trying to get it through your head that Clones are not occupiers, garrisons, or security. They are soldiers who, as soon as the battle is over, pack up and move to the next front. Consolidation, garrison, etc... is done by normal security forces, sometimes with limited clone help from specialists.

 

Lets say that Earth is a member of the Republic during WWII. The Allies is the faction that sides with the Republic while the Axis side with the CIS. Imagine if, after France fell, the CIS gave the Axis a few hundred thousand battle droids and superior air support. They bomb Britain into submission and flood into Russia with superior numbers and firepower two things that didn't happen in WWII. So in response to the CIS's involvement, the Russia gets tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of clones and superior armor. The Clone forces neutralize the CIS's forces through direct combat, then support the Russians in their advance, making it easier to break key points in the German defences.

 

If you flooded any strategically important theater in WWII with a couple hundred thousand elite troops and heavy armor, you'd change the outcome of the war. That is what clones do. Your insistence against that fact seems rooted in your lack of knowledge about this conflict.

 

You want a list of organizations that helped repel a CIS attack? Well try this

 

And if that doesn't suit you here's another list:

The Mon Cal

Gungans

Ereesus Planetary Security Forces

Terra Sool Militia

Gall planetary Defence Force