IlluminatiNinja Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) After defeating Revan, the subtitles for the Emperor's lines of dialogue describe the speaker as "Voice", not "The Emperor" or something similar. The same thing happens during the Consular's quest on Rishi, where you hear a snippet of dialogue clearly from the Emperor, but subtitled "Voice". During that sequence, other characters (even those from other storylines whom the Consular has never met) retain their names - only the Emperor's identity is obscured. Now, this could simply by an attempt to make the speaker mysterious by not revealing his identity. That doesn't make a lot of sense - on Yavin the identity of the speaker is pretty darn obvious regardless of what the subtitles say. More likely, I think, is that "Voice" is the speaking character's name - the Voice of the Emperor. I think this is Bioware's subtle way of telling us that we'll be dealing with the disembodied Voice for a while. It's possible that the Voice and the Emperor have become two discrete entities with one dominating the other (i recall another forum post presenting that theory). Or, perhaps the Voice is the Emperor, and this shows that he is capable of causing havoc without any physical body at all. His original physical body may no longer have any relevance to him at all. Either way, I don't think Bioware has abandoned the plot threads from the Sith Warrior storyline as quickly as others have suggested. Edited January 18, 2015 by IlluminatiNinja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) More likely, I think, is that "Voice" is the speaking character's name - the Voice of the Emperor. I think this is Bioware's subtle way of telling us that we'll be dealing with the disembodied Voice for a while. It's possible that the Voice and the Emperor have become two discrete entities with one dominating the other (i recall another forum post presenting that theory). Or, perhaps the Voice is the Emperor, and this shows that he is capable of causing havoc without any physical body at all. His original physical body may no longer have any relevance to him at all. That was me, assuming we're talking about the same. Even so, seeing how SoR turned out to be, I'm not sure I'd be looking forward for the Emperor -- or his essence -- to be split in two, which seems fairly identical to what happened to Revan. Either way, I don't think Bioware has abandoned the plot threads from the Sith Warrior storyline as quickly as others have suggested. That was also me and will stand by it, until the game clearly shows otherwise or confirms it. Until then, there's stuff that doesn't really add up. Edited January 18, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Personally I don't think the Emperor has a body anymore, just a Voice, the Emperor's body probably "died" a long time ago leaving only the Emperor's essence which his Hands plant into a Voice so he can commune with the physical plain. That or he just abandoned his no doubt weak and corrupt physical form, which he would have no real need for. I think that would explain why despite the Hands claiming the Hero of Tython merely killed a Voice, the effect is much more grave than when the Emperor's Wrath killed a Voice. Because that Voice was the equivalent of his true body. Which means that the Emperor may have had two or more Voices at anyone time. Or as the Hand are now calling it, his "true" Voice. Given that, I don't think we are dealing with two entities here, but one disembodied Emperor looking for a new Voice to inhabit, so he can properly interact with the physical plane. This also makes a lot more sense to me, because the Emperor is always going on about how he cannot die, how he transcends the mortal plane, is not a weak fleshy human etc. etc. if his true form is pure essence, then this is very true, killing the Emperor would be very difficult, because he doesn't have a body to kill and is a master of essence transfer. I suppose this is compatible with the idea of two entities, but I don't know it seems overly complex, and TBH I'm not surely its really possible within the scope of Star Wars lore, how can one possible create such an entity? Edited January 18, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I think that would explain why despite the Hands claiming the Hero of Tython merely killed a Voice, the effect is much more grave than when the Emperor's Wrath killed a Voice. The Wrath never killed the Voice. It "released" it; same with the Jedi Knight. Only the host body may perish, not the Emperor's essence itself. As for the Emperor having a body or not, here. The TOR Encyclopedia also mentions the Emperor's body, if I remember right. Because that Voice was the equivalent of his true body. Which means that the Emperor may have had two or more Voices at anyone time. I am not entirely sure what you are saying here. Regardless, the Emperor has taken may host bodies to house his Voice. We get to see two in the game -- if not three -- in addition to another one in the Blood of the Empire comics. The above depends on the possibility the host bodies can't be, hmmm, "reused". Edited January 18, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) The Wrath never killed the Voice. It "released" it; same with the Jedi Knight. Only the host body may perish, not the Emperor's essence itself. As for the Emperor having a body or not, here. The TOR Encyclopedia also mentions the Emperor's body, if I remember right. I am not entirely sure what you are saying here. Regardless, the Emperor has taken may host bodies to house his Voice. We get to see two in the game -- if not three -- in addition to another one in the Blood of the Empire comics. The above depends on the possibility the host bodies can't be, hmmm, "reused".Well that is what I meant, the host body dies but the essence lives on. And my point was that in the absence of an original body to return to, the Voice acts as a substitute, therefore if is destroyed he loses his anchor to the physical plane, hence the slumber. Its also possible the Emperor might have been in control of multiple Voices at any one time, so the Voss Mystic may have been a lesser Voice. Indeed regardless of the truth, we know that the Emperor is able to divide his essence, in a sense Voices are like horcruxes. I think that is the only reference to the Emperor's real body, but it doesn't really align with what we see in SoR, which shows the Emperor's essence leaving the planet, without his body, which we never see. Edited January 18, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Well that is what I meant, the host body dies but the essence lives on. And my point was that in the absence of an original body to return to, the Voice acts as a substitute, therefore if is destroyed he loses his anchor to the physical plane, hence the slumber. Its also possible the Emperor might have been in control of multiple Voices at any one time, so the Voss Mystic may have been a lesser Voice. Indeed regardless of the truth, we know that the Emperor is able to divide his essence, in a sense Voices are like horcruxes. It is not an impossibility, but it's not something the game alludes to. I think. Plus, if he was able to control multiple Voices, all at once, he wouldn't be so desperate to release himself on Voss, having been trapped there by Sel-Makor. Instead, he would have gotten there, preferably with another Voice, to liberate the other Voice who was occupying the Voss host body. That sounds confusing. I think that is the only reference to the Emperor's real body, but it doesn't really align with what we see in SoR, which shows the Emperor's essence leaving the planet, without his body, which we never see. That is the other issue I have, as brought up here. The mail I posted above seems to infer -- to say the least -- the Emperor was, hmmm, "slumbering" in his "original" body or whatever, a body he supposedly went to great lengths to protect; hence the creation of the Voice, following the unsuccessful attempt on his life by Revan and the Exile. Comes SoR and the Emperor just leaves the building, like Elvis himself, and... that's it. Assuming his body is still there, he doesn't care anymore? And assuming his body wasn't, was his spirit, essence or whatever, "attached" to that structure? Did he went Exar Kun or something, and the deaths on Yavin 4 allowed him to somehow "detach" after being "attached" to that same structure? Are there judeo-christian overtones here? That structure or "temple" was supposed to act as his "body"? Did he "resurrect" after symbolically tearing that "temple" down? Again, as Marr puts it, it doesn't make sense. Edited January 19, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrr_hypernova Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Clearly the republic and empire need to call in a bunch of disgraced scientists specializing in physic research and a black guy hand them portable nuclear excelerators and send them to town on this guy clearly the Jedi and Sith can't handle ghosts so its time they figured out that when the weird **** hits the fan there's only one group to call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 It is not an impossibility, but it's not something the game alludes to. I think. Plus, if he was able to control multiple Voices, all at once, he wouldn't be so desperate to release himself on Voss, having been trapped there by Sel-Makor. Instead, he would have gotten there, preferably with another Voice, to liberate the other Voice who was occupying the Voss host body. That sounds confusing. That is a fair point, however the tag line is that the Voice is a medium for the Emperor, so two entities must exist. Is it ever really explained why the Emperor doesn't confront Baras in person? That is the other issue I have, as brought up here.The mail I posted above seems to infer -- to say the least -- the Emperor was, hmmm, "slumbering" in his "original" body or whatever, a body he supposedly went to great lengths to protect; hence the creation of the Voice, following the unsuccessful attempt on his life by Revan and the Exile. Comes SoR and the Emperor just leaves the building, like Elvis himself, and... that's it. Assuming his body is still there, he doesn't care anymore? And assuming his body wasn't, was his spirit, essence or whatever, "attached" to that structure? Did he went Exar Kun or something, and the deaths on Yavin 4 allowed him to somehow "detach" after being "attached" to that same structure? Are there judeo-christian overtones here? That structure or "temple" was supposed to act as his "body"? Did he "resurrect" after symbolically tearing that "temple" down? Again, as Marr puts it, it doesn't make sense. These are indeed questions that require answers. Is it possible that the Emperor's body was quite literally entombed on Yavin 4? i.e. a dead corpse that the Emperor somehow managed to attach his essence to? I really don't know. There must have been something in that Temple of importance, but it doesn't look like BioWare are interested in showing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Clearly the republic and empire need to call in a bunch of disgraced scientists specializing in physic research and a black guy hand them portable nuclear excelerators and send them to town on this guy clearly the Jedi and Sith can't handle ghosts so its time they figured out that when the weird **** hits the fan there's only one group to call. True dat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) That is a fair point, however the tag line is that the Voice is a medium for the Emperor, so two entities must exist. Is it ever really explained why the Emperor doesn't confront Baras in person? Judging from the Jedi Knight story, I guess it is inferred he was too busy finalizing the details for his ritual. Also, while the Voice was presumably around, occupying a host body, the Emperor took possession of Kira temporarily, as seen I always came to assume that he controlled both the Voice and Kira from afar, from within the confines of his true body, wherever it rested; hence, this line in the codex entry for the Voice: Regardless of physical appearance, however, the Emperor’s Voice can always be identified by its emotionless, precise and controlled manner of speaking. Some have privately described conversations with this entity as extremely disturbing; there is often the sense that the Emperor’s Voice is listening to another conversation even when he or she is speaking. I could be wrong though. These are indeed questions that require answers. Is it possible that the Emperor's body was quite literally entombed on Yavin 4? i.e. a dead corpse that the Emperor somehow managed to attach his essence to? I really don't know. There must have been something in that Temple of importance, but it doesn't look like BioWare are interested in showing us. Seems like a waste to have that structure there, waving at us, while not allowing any exploration whatsoever. A multi-stage battle with Revan throughout the compound, reaching its grand finale atop the structure, would have been a blast. Ohhh well... EDIT: Satele also says , Republic-side: Iven told us where Revan might go. The Emperor's final sanctuary. - - - - Clearly the republic and empire need to call in a bunch of disgraced scientists specializing in physic research and a black guy hand them portable nuclear excelerators and send them to town on this guy clearly the Jedi and Sith can't handle ghosts so its time they figured out that when the weird **** hits the fan there's only one group to call. I guess the Emperor would be quite a twinkie. Edited January 19, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I suspect that the Emperor's true body was actually on Yavin 4, and that Revan blindly missed the chance to stab it:( I think the Emperor uses his true body ONLY when he abandons his current voice, probably as an anchor to the physical plane. I think of it as an anchor, destroy his Original Body before the Voice and presumably he can no longer create a new Voice, and thus would finally die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I suspect that the Emperor's true body was actually on Yavin 4, and that Revan blindly missed the chance to stab it:( I think the Emperor uses his true body ONLY when he abandons his current voice, probably as an anchor to the physical plane. I think of it as an anchor, destroy his Original Body before the Voice and presumably he can no longer create a new Voice, and thus would finally die. Though "anchor" is likely the correct usage, the way I prefer to think of it nowadays, is that the Emperor is akin to a "server" so to speak, with multiple "nodes" spread throughout the galaxy, each catering to one different realm, sphere or point of influence. In this case, the following "nodes" we are aware of are or were: The Voice of the Emperor, which was a host body or vessel, where the Emperor's essence was placed, thus becoming the greatest manifestation of his will in the corporeal world. The Emperor's Hand, whose servants are mostly aware of his designs to the galaxy. They also seem to communicate amongst each other through Servant Two, in addition to "feeding" the Emperor through the Force. The Emperor's Wrath, which, as the name seems to imply, is his wrath embodied, design to strike down his enemies. The Opticrons, which were designed to monitor the Wrath at every step. They were also presumably welded into form by the Emperor himself, with the latter sharing a connection to them. The Imperial Guard, whose connection to the Emperor seems far more questionable than they want to admit. Assuming all these "nodes" were to be brought down, then the bulk of the attack could be focused on the "server", namely the Emperor's body -- or spirit -- itself. We shall see I guess. At least a couple of them are either dealt with already, or severely crippled. Edited January 20, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Though "anchor" is likely the correct usage, the way I prefer to think of it nowadays, is that the Emperor is akin to a "server" so to speak, with multiple "nodes" spread throughout the galaxy, each catering to one different realm, sphere or point of influence. In this case, the following "nodes" we are aware of are or were: The Voice of the Emperor, which was a host body or vessel, where the Emperor's essence was placed, thus becoming the greatest manifestation of his will in the corporeal world. The Emperor's Hand, whose servants are mostly aware of his designs to the galaxy. They also seem to communicate amongst each other through Servant Two, in addition to "feeding" the Emperor through the Force. The Emperor's Wrath, which, as the name seems to imply, is his wrath embodied, design to strike down his enemies. The Opticrons, which were designed to monitor the Wrath at every step. They were also presumably welded into form by the Emperor himself, with the latter sharing a connection to them. The Imperial Guard, whose connection to the Emperor seems far more questionable than they want to admit. Assuming all these "nodes" were to be brought down, then the bulk of the attack could be focused on the "server", namely the Emperor's body -- or spirit -- itself. We shall see I guess. At least a couple of them are either dealt with already, or severely crippled. I love your description of the Emperor's metaphysical state and will keep it for future reference. He's less a Sith and more an Eldritch Abomination. At this point, I think he seems more alien than Sel-Makor:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I love your description of the Emperor's metaphysical state and will keep it for future reference. He's less a Sith and more an Eldritch Abomination. At this point, I think he seems more alien than Sel-Makor:D To be perfectly honest, I was trying to quote Servant One from memory. I must admit I'm a HUGE fan of how awesome it sounds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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