Aurbere Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The dark side ones? Probably, but since she was weakened by her being re-awakened, I'd say she'd balance out at normal power levels. Those were my thoughts as well. Though, was she actually weakened? I know it was said the process 'might' weaken her, but I never got the impression she actually was weakened. The feat is still impressive either way. And her resurrection was superior to Vitiate's in every way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Oh fair enough, I thought you were referring to Ventress. Either way that hardly decreases her value, there were rarely more than a handful of Shamans in the Nighsister clan, most of the time there were only 2 or 3. They were the equivalent of council member Jedi, basically. The Nighsister order was just as large and powerful, it's not so radical to expect most shamans to be council tier, especially with feats like that. And not to mention this quote refers to the most skilled of them only being able to do it, which further proves it's not as watered down of a feat as you're trying to get across. And no we wouldn't put all her predecessors on here, not all of them could contend with Sidious True, true I suppose. However I think the weapons she crafted is the most impressive. Edited January 22, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 How did Talzin actually die? (Initially.) I never really got that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 She saw Jar Jar and was like "I don't want to live in this Universe anymore". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 How did Talzin actually die? (Initially.) I never really got that... Sel said she died in Season 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 How did Talzin actually die? (Initially.) I never really got that... Neither did I, supposedly she "sacrificed much to bring maul back." The common conception is that her efforts on Zardossa Stix were to save her life, but they failed and the resulting destruction of that orb killed her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 She saw Jar Jar and was like "I don't want to live in this Universe anymore". Ah, the same words said by many Star Wars fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Ah, the same words said by many Star Wars fans. After all the hate he got I was surprised they had the balls to bring him back in TCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 After all the hate he got I was surprised they had the balls to bring him back in TCW. At least he wasn't involved all the time like in The Phantom Menace. But, if I'm being honest here, I never really had a problem with him. Yeah, he's stupid, but I kinda just ignored him for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 At least he wasn't involved all the time like in The Phantom Menace. But, if I'm being honest here, I never really had a problem with him. Yeah, he's stupid, but I kinda just ignored him for the most part. If he's stupid what does that make Padmé? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Lol which do you want to use? Because another gem from Luke is that Sith powers hurt the Sith as much as their victim, which is noted when Sidious talks about Lightning calcifying people's bones and frying their flesh. Das just stupid, yo. No it's not. The Canon is FULL of the fact that eventually... using the Dark side can weaken and destroy the body. -King Ommin of Onderon eventually his physical condition deteriorated to a paralyzed condition. -Darth Zash wanted to take the Inquisitor's body in this game for her own because the dark side had deteriorated her to the point of having a fatal condition. -Darth Nihilus became so dependent on Force to sustain his body that it began to errode. He basically became a force vampire. In the end he basically became like one of Tolkein's Nazgul. In order to survive he had to rip his spirit from his body, consume his body to get the energy needed to maintain contact with the physical plane and then inhabited he suit of armor to have physical form. So it is more than possible for the Dark Side to do as much harm to the user as the victim. Not crazy... it's lore. Life and the darkside do not get along so I look at the Darkside as having something similar to the sound barrier. Once you get to a certain point there is a curtain. If you can pass through that curtain your body adjusts and the darkside becomes "natural" to it. It damages you, but you can "fix" the damage and push on through. If you can't its like the planes pre-super sonic. A plane hitting the sound barrier, that could not push through, either had to slow down or it lost control. It could be catastrophic to the point of crashing. So some Sith never go fast enough to hit the barrier. Others when they hit it can go fast enough to push on through. Other hit the barrier and start to lose it, some to the point of crashing and burning. Edited January 22, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 No it's not. The Canon is FULL of the fact that eventually... using the Dark side can weaken and destroy the body. -King Ommin of Onderon eventually his physical condition deteriorated to a paralyzed condition. -Darth Zash wanted to take the Inquisitor's body in this game for her own because the dark side had deteriorated her to the point of having a fatal condition. -Darth Nihilus became so dependent on Force to sustain his body that it began to errode. In the end he basically became like one of Tolkein's Nazgul. In order to survive he had to rip his spirit from his body, consume his body and then inhabited he suit of armor to have physical form. So it is more than possible for the Dark Side to do as much harm to the user as the victim. Not crazy... it's lore yo. "just as much harm" All those people killed thousands before it took any effect, so no, he's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If he's stupid what does that make Padmé? Yeah, Padme isn't exactly the smartest either. Boss Nass would have been a better representative, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) "just as much harm" All those people killed thousands before it took any effect, so no, he's wrong. Check my edit BTW... First All of them did not kill thousands with the force (except Nihilus maybe). Second Jedi and Sith are inherently more resistant to what the force does. Example. Olympic Heavyweight boxers have been known to throw a punch at around 1066 psi. Other Heavyweight boxers have taken these blows because they are strong and know how to roll with it. They resist it better. Me...you...we would be OUT. The same energy is applied in both circumstances. One simply "sucks it up" better than the other. Third...Context...when Light Siders talk about the force they are often talking about not just the physical but the metaphysical. Thus when someone uses the darkside they not only harm their own body but their spirit. In harming their spirit they make it easier to use the darkside again, thus making it more likely to harm themselves physically and spiritually again. It sets up a cycle that inevitably leads to destruction. As we have seen with every Sith in the Lore. Edited January 22, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Check my edit BTW... First All of them did not kill thousands with the force (except Nihilus maybe). Second Jedi and Sith are inherently more resistant to what the force does. Example. Olympic Heavyweight boxers have been known to throw a punch at around 1066 psi. Other Heavyweight boxers have taken these blows because they are strong and know how to roll with it. They resist it better. Me...you...we would be OUT. Third...Context...when Light Siders talk about the force they are often talking about not just the physical but the metaphysical. Thus when someone uses the darkside they not only harm their own body but their spirit. In harming their spirit they make it easier to use the darkside again, thus making it more likely to harm themselves physically and spiritually again. It sets up a cycle that inevitably leads to destruction. As we have seen with every Sith in the Lore. I understand your point, and you're right about the corruption. However they do not do as much damage to themselves as their enemies, it's a simple fact. The point was that if you take that quote as a canon fact and don't take it as the opinion of a staunch Jedi, every Sith display of power in history makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So, after Beni's analysis, will we be ready to make a decision? If so, I'll get to work on my reasoning for the candidate I plan on vouching for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I made up my mind like 20 pages ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I understand your point, and you're right about the corruption. However they do not do as much damage to themselves as their enemies, it's a simple fact. The point was that if you take that quote as a canon fact and don't take it as the opinion of a staunch Jedi, every Sith display of power in history makes no sense. Depends on your definition of damage. And the "staunch Jedi" in question did use the dark side at one point and is the Most powerful, that power comes from his understanding of the Nature of the Force along with his connection. So if his understanding is that good, its safe to say he knows what he is talking about. In this case quotes like his are insights into The Force from the perspective of one that has felt it... and at one point even Physically SEEN it manifested in physical form. Its safe to say he has a greater understanding of its usage and consequences then any of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I made up my mind like 20 pages ago Everyone has. Everyone knows who's going to make it to #4, this is all just a formality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Everyone has. Everyone knows who's going to make it to #4, this is all just a formality. I havent quite... I am leaning on 2 right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So, after Beni's analysis, will we be ready to make a decision? If so, I'll get to work on my reasoning for the candidate I plan on vouching for. Agreed though numbers 3 and 4 are actually my biggest issues atm. 1 and 2 are easier in this one imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I understand your point, and you're right about the corruption. However they do not do as much damage to themselves as their enemies, it's a simple fact. The point was that if you take that quote as a canon fact and don't take it as the opinion of a staunch Jedi, every Sith display of power in history makes no sense. The thing is though to a mystic (small m), and the Luke who says that is a mystic, spiritual damage is equally serious to physical, in some ways MORE serious. If you are alive but damned those dead but embraced by the light are actually better off than you are. Midichlorians being the conduit to the force doesn't change the fact that the Jedi, and most Sith, see the force in a mystical/spiritual light. I said most because one of the things actually set Plagueis apart is that he is almost a Force Using version of an atheist. One of his main issues with other Sith was their mystical outlook. He wanted to study and address the force instead via scientific principles and study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I havent quite... I am leaning on 2 right now... http://youtu.be/_RFYoZ7H67A?t=5m4s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 http://youtu.be/_RFYoZ7H67A?t=5m4s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 http://youtu.be/_RFYoZ7H67A?t=5m4s /5char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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