The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

[cs_zoltan]

Meh I suppose, but we've got a lot of lists planned.

 

Aurbere should *********** step it up then

[PadsterPwns]

We can, we just need to take into account the nature of his existence when considering them.

 

However as far as raw power showings are concerned? For reasons I've already covered i.e. the Outlander being an inferior vessel, we should assume that these feats represent the low end of what he is capable of.

 

I get what you're saying but why not just take the feats at face value (e.g they are things he could do with mid difficulty) rather than assume they are his low end feats? I understand the vessel may be weaker but what about similar scenarios (not very similar but it's still a possession) like when Exar Kun possessed Kyp Durron? I thought Kun was actually more powerful/did similar feats? Though I'm likely wrong so sorry if so.

 

Things like Valkorion's ability to flow walk however? And seemingly slow/stop time? Well we need to consider there that Valkorion as a spirit is an entity of the Cosmic Force, i.e. that which governs time, space, Force visions etc. - so it's no wonder than in this form he is able to manipulate these forces with ease.

 

Thanks for explaining that.

[cs_zoltan]

EDIT: But again what is more important is Valkorion's ability to shrug off corporeal death.

 

Sure, but how much was that due to the Outlander? Since he "possessed" the OL straight away.

[Beniboybling]

I get what you're saying but why not just take the feats at face value (e.g they are things he could do with mid difficulty) rather than assume they are his low end feats? I understand the vessel may be weaker but what about similar scenarios (not very similar but it's still a possession) like when Exar Kun possessed Kyp Durron? I thought Kun was actually more powerful/did similar feats? Though I'm likely wrong so sorry if so.

Meh, I suppose they are not low end, but they are not the full extent of his ability in those fields.

 

In regards to Kun & Kyp Durron, a good point but the key difference is that Kyp Durron was an incredibly powerful Force User, with immense potential. Luke believed he could be among the most powerful Jedi ever. So in that respect he was a worthy vessel for channeling Exar Kun's power. The Outlander just isn't as powerful.

Thanks for explaining that.

The pleasure's all mine. I've actually done a blog on Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits if you have the time to read.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/beniboybling/blog/understanding-the-nature-of-force-ghosts-sith-spir/105225/

[PadsterPwns]

Meh, I suppose they are not low end, but they are not the full extent of his ability in those fields.

 

Thanks, I wasn't trying to say that those feats were the extent of his power just that they likely weren't his most easily performed, if that makes sense.

 

In regards to Kun & Kyp Durron, a good point but the key difference is that Kyp Durron was an incredibly powerful Force User, with immense potential. Luke believed he could be among the most powerful Jedi ever. So in that respect he was a worthy vessel for channeling Exar Kun's power. The Outlander just isn't as powerful.]

 

Yeah, I though that scenario would be different, it was just the best example I could think of.

 

The pleasure's all mine. I've actually done a blog on Force Ghosts & Sith Spirits if you have the time to read.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/beniboybling/blog/understanding-the-nature-of-force-ghosts-sith-spir/105225/

 

Thanks a lot, I'm definitely going to give that a read, anything from "the colour brigade" is usually solid info.

[PadsterPwns]

Sure, but how much was that due to the Outlander? Since he "possessed" the OL straight away.

 

I was just about to say that, it looks like Essence Transfer IMO.

[Beniboybling]

Sure, but how much was that due to the Outlander? Since he "possessed" the OL straight away.

Did he though? It's unclear what exactly happened, if you choose to join Valkorion he starts to conduct some strange ritual, if you don't, he just dies. Nor is the Outlander actually possessed, he just appears to latch on to their presence.

 

Is it because he needed to, or does he just want to use the Outlander as a tool? The fact that he states he doesn't need Voices, Hands, Children etc. anymore, that he is "free" suggests otherwise, though it remains unclear.

 

Altogether though it was his ability to shrug off his coporeal demise that put him in that position to begin with, Sidious on the other hand was not able to possess Luke or Vader, he spent years trapped in the void.

[PadsterPwns]

Did he though? It's unclear what exactly happened, if you choose to join Valkorion he starts to conduct some strange ritual, if you don't, he just dies. Nor is the Outlander actually possessed, he just appears to latch on to their presence.

 

Is it because he needed to, or does he just want to use the Outlander as a tool? The fact that he states he doesn't need Voices, Hands, Children etc. anymore, that he is "free" suggests otherwise, though it remains unclear.

 

Altogether though it was his ability to shrug off his coporeal demise that put him in that position to begin with, Sidious on the other hand was not able to possess Luke or Vader, he spent years trapped in the void.

 

Could it be Essence Transfer just in a way we haven't seen it? When Bane failed to transfer to Zannah she still did that weird twitch hinting Bane had some power, maybe Valky just uses a more refined version that lets both essences live? Also Sidious may not of tried it on Luke or Vader for fear of losing, he did want to be immortal.

[Beniboybling]

Could it be Essence Transfer just in a way we haven't seen it? When Bane failed to transfer to Zannah she still did that weird twitch hinting Bane had some power, maybe Valky just uses a more refined version that lets both essences live?

It's certainly not conventional, which raises a lot of questions. Questions I presume we will have answered.

Also Sidious may not of tried it on Luke or Vader for fear of losing, he did want to be immortal.

What do you mean?

[cs_zoltan]

Well since Valky apparently died to a wound that Shaak Ti tanked, it might've been what he wanted. Or, you know, just played along after it happened.

Whether that is true or not, he still had enough power to knock the OL out cold, and then inhabit his/her body while it couldn't defend against it.

Later at the start of Chapter V (I think) Walkie Talkie flat out says that the two of them are indivisible. Take that for what you will.

 

Sidious didn't have such circumstances. Only Luke and Vader were around. Vader was dying, and Luke > OL. So yeah, that's my take on it.

[PadsterPwns]

It's certainly not conventional, which raises a lot of questions. Questions I presume we will have answered.

Refined Essence Transfer is my bet.

 

What do you mean?

If I remember correctly, whoever loses the battle of wills in an Essence Transfer has their essence destroyed and Sidious likely wouldn't have chanced it on Vader considering he was strong enough to be redeemed and betray him and he likely wouldn't try it on Luke as he had the willpower to refuse the Dark Side and accept death, so instead he waits for a guaranteed transfer into a body without an essence.

[PadsterPwns]

Well since Valky apparently died to a wound that Shaak Ti tanked, it might've been what he wanted. Or, you know, just played along after it happened.

Whether that is true or not, he still had enough power to knock the OL out cold, and then inhabit his/her body while it couldn't defend against it.

Later at the start of Chapter V (I think) Walkie Talkie flat out says that the two of them are indivisible. Take that for what you will.

 

Sidious didn't have such circumstances. Only Luke and Vader were around. Vader was dying, and Luke > OL. So yeah, that's my take on it.

 

So you think some kind of Essence Transfer too?

[Beniboybling]

Well since Valky apparently died to a wound that Shaak Ti tanked, it might've been what he wanted. Or, you know, just played along after it happened.

There is literally no reason why Valkorion would want to die in that situation, and every reason why he did not. I think it's pretty clear he didn't intend it to happen, but also clear that he perceived it as a minor obstacle.

Whether that is true or not, he still had enough power to knock the OL out cold, and then inhabit his/her body while it couldn't defend against it.

Which only demonstrates how little a threat corporeal death now is to him. However I think it was just the potency of the dark side burst that rendered the OL unconscious.

Later at the start of Chapter V (I think) Walkie Talkie flat out says that the two of them are indivisible. Take that for what you will.

Interesting, I got a similar impression. However there still remains the question of whether this is a relationship Valkorion is dependent on, or one he is simply abusing.

 

The fact that again, he doesn't need Voices, Hands or Children anymore i.e. vessels, suggests the latter.

Sidious didn't have such circumstances. Only Luke and Vader were around. Vader was dying, and Luke > OL. So yeah, that's my take on it.

Again this assumes that Valkorion needed an individual to latch on to, irregardless Luke is powerful but very inexperienced and weaker than Sidious. I highly doubt he'd be able to defend himself if he couldn't even handle Sidious' lightning. Not that Valkorion appeared to take the Outlander by force.

[cs_zoltan]

So you think some kind of Essence Transfer too?

 

That's the most obvious option.

[Beniboybling]

If I remember correctly, whoever loses the battle of wills in an Essence Transfer has their essence destroyed and Sidious likely wouldn't have chanced it on Vader considering he was strong enough to be redeemed and betray him and he likely wouldn't try it on Luke as he had the willpower to refuse the Dark Side and accept death, so instead he waits for a guaranteed transfer into a body without an essence.

Fact is though Sidious is described as almost succumbing to the void, so it's obvious he wasn't in a position to attempt that anyway.

[PadsterPwns]

Fact is though Sidious is described as almost succumbing to the void, so it's obvious he wasn't in a position to attempt that anyway.

 

I'm a bit confused, I thought you were asking me why Sidious didn't transfer into Luke or Vader?

[cs_zoltan]

There is literally no reason why Valkorion would want to die in that situation, and every reason why he did not. I think it's pretty clear he didn't intend it to happen, but also clear that he perceived it as a minor obstacle.Which only demonstrates how little a threat corporeal death now is to him. However I think it was just the potency of the dark side burst that rendered the OL unconscious.Interesting, I got a similar impression. However there still remains the question of whether this is a relationship Valkorion is dependent on, or one he is simply abusing.

 

The fact that again, he doesn't need Voices, Hands or Children anymore i.e. vessels, suggests the latter.Again this assumes that Valkorion needed an individual to latch on to, irregardless Luke is powerful but very inexperienced and weaker than Sidious. I highly doubt he'd be able to defend himself if he couldn't even handle Sidious' lightning. Not that Valkorion appeared to take the Outlander by force.

 

It's hard to answer without knowing his motives. Walkie is a big *********** question mark since KotFE.

 

If he didn't want to die then how was that blow fatal to him, when we've seen the like of Shaak Ti, Galen Marek, and Darth Talon (among others I'm sure) survive it?

And if he is not dependent on the OL as a host, then why doesn't he just "comes back" and *****slaps his son into his place and goes on with his original plan?

[PadsterPwns]

It's hard to answer without knowing his motives. Walkie is a big *********** question mark since KotFE.

 

If he didn't want to die then how was that blow fatal to him, when we've seen the like of Shaak Ti, Galen Marek, and Darth Talon (among others I'm sure) survive it?

And if he is not dependent on the OL as a host, then why doesn't he just "comes back" and *****slaps his son into his place and goes on with his original plan?

 

Zoltan it's fine because... YOU'RE THE OUTLANDER! Therefore possible plot holes don't matter.

Edited October 28, 2015 by PadsterPwns

[Beniboybling]

Because he was impaled right through the chest, and likely several vital organs, like his heart for starters.

 

It was fatal to Darth Krayt, it was fatal to the frikken Son, I highly doubt Valkorion could have tanked it.

 

And Valkorion may be able to shrug off coporeal death, but he still needs a body to channel his powers through. So I assume that is why he is using the Outlander, that doesn't make the Outlander an anchor for him though.

 

I mean lets bear in mind that the Outlander can be a non-Force sensitive, not much of a resource.

I'm a bit confused, I thought you were asking me why Sidious didn't transfer into Luke or Vader?

Nah I was just unclear on your point. Edited October 28, 2015 by Beniboybling

[PadsterPwns]

Nah I was just unclear on your point.

 

Oh that's fine. As far as Valky goes I say modified Essence Transfer or Bioware bs.

[tunewalker]

On the whole "immortality" thing that Exar Kun and Palpatine "didnt achieve" The moment he was "killed" he possessed the Outlander's body, just like Exar Kun basically did in the Jedi Academy Trilogy to Kyp and Gantoris, after he was supposedly killed thousands of years ago. So In one instance we have Exar Kun having no body for thousands of years pulling it off vs Valkorian pulling it off just seconds after his body was destroyed. Like Exar Kun Valkorian has no power unless the Outlander lets him have it, basically if the Outlander never lets him in Valkorian cant even affect the physical plain, again just like Exar Kun could do nothing with out using the powers of those he was leaching off of.

 

 

When I said Valkorian isnt doing anything we havent seen Exar Kun do in terms of Control... I meant it.

[tunewalker]

Because he was impaled right through the chest, and likely several vital organs, like his heart for starters.

 

It was fatal to Darth Krayt, it was fatal to the frikken Son, I highly doubt Valkorion could have tanked it.

 

And Valkorion may be able to shrug off coporeal death, but he still needs a body to channel his powers through. So I assume that is why he is using the Outlander, that doesn't make the Outlander an anchor for him though.

 

I mean lets bear in mind that the Outlander can be a non-Force sensitive, not much of a resource.Nah I was just unclear on your point.

 

 

(the outlander is alive arent they?)

[cs_zoltan]

(the outlander is alive arent they?)

 

Gratz for finding the absolute worst quality video

[tunewalker]

Gratz for finding the absolute worst quality video

 

Thank you I try.

[Jarons]

Because he was impaled right through the chest, and likely several vital organs, like his heart for starters.

 

It was fatal to Darth Krayt, it was fatal to the frikken Son, I highly doubt Valkorion could have tanked it.

 

And Valkorion may be able to shrug off coporeal death, but he still needs a body to channel his powers through. So I assume that is why he is using the Outlander, that doesn't make the Outlander an anchor for him though.

 

I mean lets bear in mind that the Outlander can be a non-Force sensitive, not much of a resource.Nah I was just unclear on your point.

 

Darth Krayt wasn't just stabbed in the Chest.So I don't think those two things can be comparable.He was Stabbed then he with very powerful force lightening by Muur than thrown down a mountain and finally Hut with Wrylook Force lightening as well and was still alive.This is before he learned DT.So I would say to a powerful force user like those two its not as bad as it would be for the trooper or imperial Agent.