Bioware, please consider some PvP Balancing by actual Skilled Arena players.

[Lhancelot]

Just dinged 60 on my sentinel, running in mostly 158 gear (some 162/168) I can break 1400-1500 dps as combat popping trance the majority of the match; in either watchmen or concentration hitting 1600-1800 isn't "hard" unless I'm being focused by most of the enemy team (which usually means that the rest of the people in my warzone are *******s... like dps sages who pull half my overall damage). If I can pull 1500-1800 dps using gear that is ~three grades behind the new ranked gear it's definitely possible to pull 2k+

 

Nekrell has stated that maras/sents need minor buffs in other threads, but he would be underplaying himself (and other good maras/sents) if he cried about the class as much as the whiners do.

 

No one ever said "it's not possible" to pull 2k+ as a marauder/sent. Nekrall likes to attack people on the forums, how about let him defend himself? The way he puts it, it's quite an easy feat to pull 2k+ dps as a mara/sent. My question is, if it's so easy why do so many people INCLUDING players who do not main a mara/sent say the class needs some buffs?

 

I can say on my healing sorc, there is one marauder worth mentioning, that actually puts a hurt on me. ONE. The rest I can manage around, and not worry about. That says a lot. How many PTs or VGs can I name that give me lots of trouble? Tons. And, how about juggs, or sins? Plenty. So, if marauders are so great and do DPS so easily, how come I can't name more than one that actually worries me on my 60 healing sorc? I guess our entire server basically only has one player who actually can play the marauder class right? I don't believe that.

 

His post states clearly that he feels mara do not need a buff as they routinely and "easily pull 2k plus" dps. Let him state what he thinks and feels, he has no problem doing that anyway.

 

I don't doubt you personally put up great numbers on a sentinel. That is no indication that the class does not need help. You possibly maybe one of the best players on the game who plays the class, and manages to make it shine. Just like Dirty'sanchez does on TEH. That only proves how great a player those are who can actually maximize the classes strengths in PVP regardless of how many disadvantages they have imo.

[Lhancelot]

You need to learn some reading comprehension. Maybe looking at my signature would help a bit too.

 

Marauders do great damage, the issue is mobility and defensive concerns.

 

Deadly throw needs to be put back in the game, with a masterful utility to root for 3 seconds.

 

Undying rage needs to be reverted to before it was nerfed. Cooldown remaining the same, but the health needs to be taken off on activation instead of after it wears off. It is a death sentence instead of a cooldown which entails recovery from a bad situation.

 

Predation needs to be taken off of the fury system, and put on a cooldown. Every marauder spec is heavily dependent on berserk now, so they are currently the only class which needs to decide between doing damage, or having mobility. Berserk is integral to every spec, this is why marauders are falling behind.

 

Expunging Camo also needs to actually purge all effects as it was advertised. It is a heroic utility for a 45 second root break. I believe this was reverted the second day of early access since you could remove electro net with force camo. A bug, which led to another marauder nerf.

 

You may want to learn some mechanics before talking to the big leagers in your awful tone.

 

Ahhh your sig. Well. That explains a lot now why you talk to people in the manner you do. I guess people should bow to you because your ingame achievements are so impressive!

 

Nah. I aint impressed, and you get what you give. You talk to people like they are below you, and I will give you the same respect back, which is none.

 

Egos aside, kudos if you do well on the marauder. And, I actually mean that because most people do not succeed on the class now at 60. Your skill at the class is not an indication of what doesn't need changed though, because I would gather you are a minority that make it shine now in its present state.

 

As for my "awful tone", that actually made me snicker irl. Thanks for the laugh, Mr. "Big leager". rofl.

[Nekrall]

Ahhh your sig. Well. That explains a lot now why you talk to people in the manner you do. I guess people should bow to you because your ingame achievements are so impressive!

 

Nah. I aint impressed, and you get what you give. You talk to people like they are below you, and I will give you the same respect back, which is none.

 

Egos aside, kudos if you do well on the marauder. And, I actually mean that because most people do not succeed on the class now at 60. Your skill at the class is not an indication of what doesn't need changed though, because I would gather you are a minority that make it shine now in its present state.

 

As for my "awful tone", that actually made me snicker irl. Thanks for the laugh, Mr. "Big leager". rofl.

 

Yeah, you need to learn some reading comprehension.

 

Stating that marauders do not need a damage buff; but rather, mobility and defensive buffs is not saying marauders are "fine", the situation is quite the opposite actually.

[EnzoForMe]

I had a 2.6k sniper and 2.3k slinger in season 2 in solo ranked and 2.1k in season 3 group ranked sniper.

 

I'll say this: 3.0 is the first patch in all my time playing that as a sniper I feel like one of the worst classes in solo ranked and the first time I've felt I can't beat a particular class 1v1. It's not possible for me to beat an equally skilled sin or pt 1v1 in solo ranked anymore. It's simply not. Snipers have god awful survivability in all specs without support and the second punch is that engineering was nerfed- our one good solo ranked spec against good players due to utility/stuns/mobility/survivability.

 

Sins were already one of the best classes in season 3 and they were buffed even further. I don't get it.

 

Marksman is a good spec for 4s so to preserve that balance I just want to see engi buffed so my class has a solo ranked spec again. Frag grenade made into single target and plasma probe nerf (among other things)= ***. The EMP disharge change took away double shield probe/double roll/double entrench. But now instead I get to hit someone for 3.3k and stun them for 2 seconds. Hellz yeah.

Edited January 17, 2015 by EnzoForMe

[Alister]

Idk PTs are good but on my jugg i love it when they try and brust me... just pop that 5 sec reflect and watch them almost kill themselfs....lol

[alexsamma]

No one ever said "it's not possible" to pull 2k+ as a marauder/sent. Nekrall likes to attack people on the forums, how about let him defend himself? The way he puts it, it's quite an easy feat to pull 2k+ dps as a mara/sent. My question is, if it's so easy why do so many people INCLUDING players who do not main a mara/sent say the class needs some buffs?

 

I can say on my healing sorc, there is one marauder worth mentioning, that actually puts a hurt on me. ONE. The rest I can manage around, and not worry about. That says a lot. How many PTs or VGs can I name that give me lots of trouble? Tons. And, how about juggs, or sins? Plenty. So, if marauders are so great and do DPS so easily, how come I can't name more than one that actually worries me on my 60 healing sorc? I guess our entire server basically only has one player who actually can play the marauder class right? I don't believe that.

 

His post states clearly that he feels mara do not need a buff as they routinely and "easily pull 2k plus" dps. Let him state what he thinks and feels, he has no problem doing that anyway.

 

I don't doubt you personally put up great numbers on a sentinel. That is no indication that the class does not need help. You possibly maybe one of the best players on the game who plays the class, and manages to make it shine. Just like Dirty'sanchez does on TEH. That only proves how great a player those are who can actually maximize the classes strengths in PVP regardless of how many disadvantages they have imo.

 

Meh, I would consider myself an average mara/sent, I mainly play it because I enjoy the class and combat/carnage as a spec.

 

My post was to point out that more than one person can pull damage on a mara and that the damage output is not the issue; also, AP/Hatred is just retarded atm, compared to those two specs everything is UP.

[funkiestj]

Also, my posts are now being deleted for agreeing with your OP Insomniaq, and stating that the masses should not be considered for balance changes. Didn't say anything offensive, all I said was bioware should not listen to people who have "no understanding of the game".

 

Seems like a pretty intuitive notion doesn't it? Don't listen to people who have no clue about what they are talking about? Makes sense to me.

 

What you say is true and fair. Posts get deleted for stupid reasons. For less bizarre moderating try reddit:/r/swtor.

 

I wish the PvP crowd hung out there rather than here but alas, it is what it is.

[foxmob]

What you say is true and fair. Posts get deleted for stupid reasons. For less bizarre moderating try reddit:/r/swtor.

 

I wish the PvP crowd hung out there rather than here but alas, it is what it is.

 

my guess would be that he didn't say it nearly as diplomatically as the lines you just quoted.

[foxmob]

I had a 2.6k sniper and 2.3k slinger in season 2 in solo ranked and 2.1k in season 3 group ranked sniper.

 

I'll say this: 3.0 is the first patch in all my time playing that as a sniper I feel like one of the worst classes in solo ranked and the first time I've felt I can't beat a particular class 1v1. It's not possible for me to beat an equally skilled sin or pt 1v1 in solo ranked anymore. It's simply not. Snipers have god awful survivability in all specs without support and the second punch is that engineering was nerfed- our one good solo ranked spec against good players due to utility/stuns/mobility/survivability. .

 

this is true. I said it before (not sure if this thread), but in soloQ, snipers are easier kills than mercs, and I haven't seen a single sniper carry a team even though I know for a fact that they're better players than me.

 

as for the sins getting buffed, I think part of that is the metrics were skewed because A LOT of ppl tried to play sins in yolo (where they really shined), and that brought down the mean and the median. PT and mara were underrepresented in soloQ. as a result, no fotm mediocre or poor players were on them for any appreciable time, so when you did see a PT or a mara, he was usually good. what surprised me about last season on JM was that the better healers were mostly mercs. anyway...these trends (aside from the merc healing quirk) are supported by the stats posted a month or two ago on grp and solo ranked. one can only guess if similar "metrics" played into the dev decisions about class buffs/nerfs for 3.0, but it does offer some logic to why sorcs and sins are in such a good place and maras are in such trouble. PTs are an outlier though. I thought they were always easy to play and do well in (yolo), but they got that huge buff to burst and weird tweaking of specs (swapped around).

[Lhancelot]

Meh, I would consider myself an average mara/sent, I mainly play it because I enjoy the class and combat/carnage as a spec.

 

My post was to point out that more than one person can pull damage on a mara and that the damage output is not the issue; also, AP/Hatred is just retarded atm, compared to those two specs everything is UP.

 

Yes true. I also never said maras need a damage buff either. Obviously it's a matter of the class not being able to stay on target. I think players who manage to do great damage on a Mara simply are superior at staying on target. With all the cc in pvp, it's amazing they can stay glued long enough to do significant damage. So, in a nutshell I also understand that maras can do great damage never said they cannot have a high damage output. The fact is the cc is what inhibits them.

[Evolixe]

Undying rage needs to be reverted to before it was nerfed. Cooldown remaining the same, but the health needs to be taken off on activation instead of after it wears off. It is a death sentence instead of a cooldown which entails recovery from a bad situation.

 

Here's where I'm going to stop you.

 

Undying Rage can NEVER return to it's old state unless you get a serious healing intake reduction as well.

Even with a 3 minute cooldown a cold "reset" button with 3 seconds of immortality goes way too far.

 

The numbers for the healing intake reduction could be tweaked. But it can't be that you'll be full hp by the time you get out of undying. That's one step too far.

[SOULCASTER]

Not to wander off topic here, but since you're talking about Sins and PTs....

 

The main problem with hatred/serenity sin/shadows right now (and has been for a little while) is when they added the dispatch to the tree, that can be used out side of dispatch range, that procs off your dots. This gave the class constant DoT pressure and solid burst every 10 seconds. If they removed the dispatch proc from hatred/serenity, it would bring sin back in like with other classes. When they added this to the tree, madness sins were hurting at the time, sure....but since then they have changed the game quite a bit and have also made their dots unpurgable (which went a long way in fixing that tree in the first place).

 

(Maybe even give that dispatch proc to Infiltration/deception to help boost their burst. Since ya know...they are supposed to be the burst spec, NOT serenity/hatred....but that's neither here nor there)

 

And obviously the rockets need to be put back to a 1 second or changed to a 1.5 second cooldown (off the GCD), since that is a bit ridiculous at the moment. Having the '''extra rockets'' removed from AP and put as utility would go a long way too, for allowing the other 2 PT specs to get it.

 

Also, the 30m range on thermal detonator/assault-plastique needs to be nerfed back down to 10m. And they need to removed that whole ''you can use railshot on any target (even if they aren't dotted)'' box. 30m Railshots at will on any given target are also a problem with PT, coupled with the above. There is no reason for PT/VG to have that much range. I don't know why they changed this, but it's also contributing to PTs ridiculousness right now.

Edited January 17, 2015 by SOULCASTER

[SOULCASTER]

Here's where I'm going to stop you.

 

Undying Rage can NEVER return to it's old state unless you get a serious healing intake reduction as well.

Even with a 3 minute cooldown a cold "reset" button with 3 seconds of immortality goes way too far.

 

The numbers for the healing intake reduction could be tweaked. But it can't be that you'll be full hp by the time you get out of undying. That's one step too far.

 

Nah man...I'm with nekrall. Undying Rage (Guarded by the force) needs to be reverted to it's previous state with no alterations. It can be a serious liability rigtht now as-is. Even for knowledgeable good players.

Edited January 17, 2015 by SOULCASTER

[Evolixe]

You obviously don't play sent/mara at all...I'm with nekrall. Undying Rage (Guarded by the force) needs to be reverted to it's previous state with no alterations. It's a liability rigtht now as-is. Even for knowledgeable good players.

 

I don't need to play one to know whats good for them and what is not.

 

 

The problem with Undying Rage is that thát ability alone, makes Marauders untargettable. Back in the days.. nobody would bother going for a Marauder.

 

And why? Undying Rage.

 

 

Every single time you would get one low, they would have that.. and come out with full hp. By the time you'd be able to bring him back in such a position.. it would already be back up and thus any Marauder could stay offensive 100% of the time without having to worry about dying. Ever.

 

 

Even with a longer cooldown this problem will still be there. Albeit less severe. But it's a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with. Hence old Undying Rage should never return.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Evolixe

[SOULCASTER]

Even with a longer cooldown this problem will still be there. Albeit less severe. But it's a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with. Hence old Undying Rage should never return.

 

Sorry going to politely disagree with you there. In it's current form, 1 stun with some good burst (which sin and PT can pull off now on their own, at the moment) or a coordinated double stun prevents most mara/sents from even USING undying rage/gbtf before they die. It's just a liability cooldown right now and it NEEDS to be tweaked.

 

I would say it should go back to the old way it was, if for nothing other than the fact that sentinel/mara are in a bad spot right now for pvp.

Edited January 17, 2015 by SOULCASTER

[Evolixe]

Sorry going to politely disagree with you there. In it's current form, 1 stun with some good burst (which sin and PT can pull off now on their own, at the moment) or a coordinated double stun prevents most mara/sents from even USING undying rage/gbtf before they die. It's just a liability cooldown right now and it NEEDS to be tweaked.

 

I would say it should go back to the old way it was, if for nothing other than the fact that sentinel/mara are in a bad spot right now for pvp.

 

You can have it back as it was. With a limitation to healing above ~35-50% for as long as it is active.

[SeanFM]

Here's where I'm going to stop you.

 

Undying Rage can NEVER return to it's old state unless you get a serious healing intake reduction as well.

Even with a 3 minute cooldown a cold "reset" button with 3 seconds of immortality goes way too far.

 

The numbers for the healing intake reduction could be tweaked. But it can't be that you'll be full hp by the time you get out of undying. That's one step too far.

I don't really agree with that tbh if you compare it to the defenses that other classes already have.

 

Sorcs have Force Barrier on a 3 min cd and can spec into a 2 min 30 sec cd. It's a cold reset button that you can come out the end of with full health. If you stay in it for 3 seconds (same length as GBtF) you lose 2 gcds of dmg but you purge all dots, gain some absorbtion and you can choose to extend your immortality up to 10 secs and in doing so gain a ton of absorbtion and other things like some decent healing and a reset on Force Speed if you spec into them.

 

Sins have Shroud on a 1 min cd. They can spec into a 5 sec duration and get it on Force Cloak as well. The majority of strong specs atm are mainly Force/Tech dmg dealers (with only 1 or 2 notable exceptions). So on a 60 sec cd sins can be immune to all Force/Tech dmg, almost all CC, purge all dots on them (which is massive given the current meta) and continue attacking.

 

Juggs have Enraged Defense on a 2 min cd which effectively gives them a 2nd life and they can continue attacking. They can spec into a 1 min 30 cd and using it as a 2nd cc breaker. They also have Saber Reflect which I suppose is more like UR, especially against ranged dps comps. But I don't think I need to give too much justification about how good Juggs' dcds are.

 

Those are the main cds but I could continue mentioning others such as concealment operative roll and sniper's evasion. The point I'm trying to get across is that there are plenty of other dcds in the games that other classes have which more or less give them a 2nd life. I'm not saying they are as good as 3 secs of 99% dmg reduction every 3 mins but they do allow a player to be "healed to full".

 

The last thing I'd like to point out is that all of those classes have a much easier time staying on target than maras/sents. All it takes is one root/slow on them and they may as well have not been able to attack, or a stun on the healer when the mara pops UR and he's still f***ed. Giving this cd to the class that has an extremely difficult time even staying on target doesn't seem as OP as you're trying to make out.

Edited January 17, 2015 by SeanFM
spelling

[SOULCASTER]

You can have it back as it was. With a limitation to healing above ~35-50% for as long as it is active.

 

Oh you code the game? Sweet! what other changes can you implement?! Create a new thread so we can talk to you about thins we need changed, so you can code them in for us. Thanks!

 

Hahah i love it when players make statements like this.

[Evolixe]

I don't really agree with that tbh if you compare it to the defenses that other classes already have.

 

Sorcs have Force Barrier on a 3 min cd and can spec into a 2 min 30 sec cd. It's a cold reset button that you can come out the end of with full health. If you stay in it for 3 seconds (same length as GBtF) you lose 2 gcds of dmg but you purge all dots, gain some absorbtion and you can choose to extend your immortality up to 10 secs and in doing so gain a ton of absorbtion and other things like some decent healing and a reset on Force Speed if you spec into them.

 

You're comparing an immortality cooldown where you can keep offensively against a cooldown that basically puts a CC on yourself for the duration. 2 VERY different things. Also, a sorc doesn't have nearly the amount of armor and passive defenses that you have. It's not even remotely comparible.

 

Same thing with sins.. comparing immortality to shroud?

Rofl I'd give my shroud for the old undying any day of the week. That **** is ridiculous.

 

 

 

The problem is that you stay active for the duration of the cooldown. And the duration is long enough for any healer to get you back to 70%+ hp. It's amplified the more healers are around and in ranked play.. that meant immortal marauders.

[Evolixe]

Oh you code the game? Sweet! what other changes can you implement?! Create a new thread so we can talk to you about thins we need changed, so you can code them in for us. Thanks!

 

Hahah i love it when players make statements like this.

 

If I did at least the game would be in a proper state of balance -_-

 

 

What you want is OP, I'm seeking the middle ground.

[SOULCASTER]

If I did at least the game would be in a proper state of balance -_-

 

 

What you want is OP, I'm seeking the middle ground.

 

Heheh. Nah I wouldn't say what I want is OP..I don't main a mara or sent by any means mind you. But I do play every class in the game (except slinger/sniper) and both playing mara/sent playing against them, it's pretty obvious they need some tweaks. One of which, should be changing Undyingrage/GBTF.

 

I'd be fine with a 50% healing reduction while active (as long as it doesn't affect your heal stim) if they reverted it back to the old ways....JUST BECAUSE even that would be better than what it currently is now.

[Evolixe]

Heheh. Nah I wouldn't say what I want is OP..I don't main a mara or sent by any means mind you. But I do play every class in the game (except slinger/sniper) and both playing mara/sent playing against them, it's pretty obvious they need some tweaks. One of which, should be changing Undyingrage/GBTF.

 

I'd be fine with a 50% healing reduction while active (as long as it doesn't affect your heal stim) if they reverted it back to the old ways....JUST BECAUSE even that would be better than what it currently is now.

 

I agree. They do need something. But old Undying/GBTF in full glory isn't it.

[SeanFM]

You're comparing an immortality cooldown where you can keep offensively against a cooldown that basically puts a CC on yourself for the duration. 2 VERY different things. Also, a sorc doesn't have nearly the amount of armor and passive defenses that you have. It's not even remotely comparible.

 

Same thing with sins.. comparing immortality to shroud?

Rofl I'd give my shroud for the old undying any day of the week. That **** is ridiculous.

 

 

 

The problem is that you stay active for the duration of the cooldown. And the duration is long enough for any healer to get you back to 70%+ hp. It's amplified the more healers are around and in ranked play.. that meant immortal marauders.

And as I said there are counters. One stun on the healer and all the cd has done is prolong life for 3 secs. Also you keep saying "the old UR". Didn't it used to be on a 45sec cd with set bonuses and and skill tree talents? That is what made it so impossible to kill them.

 

I'll say it again: a 2nd life on a 3 min cd when you consider all the defensive capabilities other classes doesn't seem completely OP. It would be strong of course.

 

Also I wasn't saying the other dcds I mentioned were equivalent, I was saying that other classes have ways of getting a 2nd life as well (even if they aren't as effective).

 

Edit: and I'm not opposed to there being a healing reduction on it. All I was trying to get across was that I think you are exaggerating how OP it would be.

Edited January 17, 2015 by SeanFM

[SkyLordJaden]

3/10

Making dots cleanseable again is total rubish because now specs like hatred and lethality are actually playable now, instead of just getting top damage on reg leaderboards.

Im not sure if I read this right but putting shoulder cannon the gcd isnt the solution. Adding an internal cooldown to it is probably better, because the real issue is you can fire of two in a single gcd. So limiting it to one will allow a nice burst but not op like it currently is

[SOULCASTER]

3/10

Making dots cleanseable again is total rubish because now specs like hatred and lethality are actually playable now, instead of just getting top damage on reg leaderboards.

Im not sure if I read this right but putting shoulder cannon the gcd isnt the solution. Adding an internal cooldown to it is probably better, because the real issue is you can fire of two in a single gcd. So limiting it to one will allow a nice burst but not op like it currently is

 

Cleanses can easily be tweaked to have longer cooldowns to fix balance. DoTs as they are now (especially with dot-spread) is not only lame but just obnoxious.

 

I personally believe dots should be cleansable.....but I'd also be ok with leaving dot spread and making dots cleanseable, OR remove dot-spread and leave dots un-cleansable.