TY BW - for Slot machine - No really...

[LordArtemis]

its not a cred sink, if it was a true credit sink the coins would be 25k each not 500c each, people making millions off mats they only spend 100k in coins for. Also it has brought the end of companions as we know it now, we had our companions for 3 years but now there time is done.

 

IT IS A TRUE CREDIT SINK. Anything that removes credits from the economy is a credit sink.

 

You can argue it is not an EFFECTIVE credit sink, but you have to accept that it is one, like it or not.

 

Anything that removes credits from the credit pool is a credit sink, PERIOD.

[MaximusRex]

That is absolutely correct. However, I've sold NPC decorations on ToFN for over 2 million credits in the last 24 hours. Prices have gone down massively during those 24 hours (they're 50-60k each now), but the first 5-6 sales were 240k-250k each.

 

If the prices are dropping so drastically, then in the end it will be a credit sink again. Cartel Certs are the "Jackpot" item, and you have to input several stacks of Cartel Chips to get one.

 

In the short run some people will wind up ahead, but in the long term there will be more items available on the GTN for much better prices, and the slot machine will transition into another way to convert credits to mats.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

IT IS A TRUE CREDIT SINK. Anything that removes credits from the economy is a credit sink.

 

You can argue it is not an EFFECTIVE credit sink, but you have to accept that it is one, like it or not.

 

Anything that removes credits from the credit pool is a credit sink, PERIOD.

 

But wait ... if material prices drop then people are spending less to gain materials right?

 

So you run your dailies or what not generate the "new" income and suddenly you don't have to spend as much asy ou did before and what you used to spend it on? Heck you might do dailies and slots and not have to spend anything at all.

 

Does this not bring more money into the game as opposed to taking it out?

 

the sink used to be mat purchases for conquest etc. - this has dropped. If you then have a machine thatm akes you a profit and not a loss it's not really a TRUE sink is it?

 

Looking at the overall picture here, just saying you spend credits on it makes it sink and ignoring the credits it earns you is somewhat flawed logic.

 

I'm waiting for the green mats to be worth more than purple mats because people won't solely focus on grade 11 purples once they see other grades are now selling for more and only cost 1 purple JJ.

[Heat-Wave]

But wait ... if material prices drop then people are spending less to gain materials right?

 

So you run your dailies or what not generate the "new" income and suddenly you don't have to spend as much asy ou did before and what you used to spend it on? Heck you might do dailies and slots and not have to spend anything at all.

 

First, people will likely run fewer dailies.

 

Second, the money paid for mats doesn't vanish, it just moves to another player.

 

Third, I think you over estimate how many people will spend more than a few hours at the slot machine, it does get boring. I'll do it for 15-20 min while waiting for an op to form or PvP to pop, but that is it.

 

the sink used to be mat purchases for conquest etc. - this has dropped. If you then have a machine thatm akes you a profit and not a loss it's not really a TRUE sink is it?

 

 

That was never a sink, the money paid for mats went to other players, it was just moving the money around.

[Khevar]

But wait ... if material prices drop then people are spending less to gain materials right?

With regular crew missions, running Bountiful / Rich results in an average cost of 4k per purple mat. Slot machines result in average of 2k per jawa junk after selling the reputation.

 

For Doonium / Midlithe (1x jawa junk), the slots are definitely cheaper. For Autoimmune Regulators (2x jawa junk) it's about the same. For Adaptive Circuitry (3x jawa junk), it's actually more expensive to get them by slots than crew missions.

 

However, the slot machines are about 500x faster, resulting in an abundance of materials, so the prices are dropping.

 

Prior to jawa junk buying grade 11 mats, the prices remained high purely due to scarcity. Many people (myself included) were perfectly happy to sell mats at a 2000% markup -- that's what the market would bear.

 

The prices have plummeted, but everything is still profitable. All that's happened is the huuuuuuge margins have evaporated. I find it vaguely amusing to see people pointing at Midlithe selling for 12k instead of 60k as "evidence" that the economy has crashed.

 

"Oh noes, I'm only making 200% profit instead of 2000% profit"

Edited January 15, 2015 by Khevar

[DarthOvertone]

I really like the Slot Machine. Didn't get one yet myself, tried 10 packs and failed, but my brother scored one and I'm able to use his in between PvP pops. It's the perfect way to pass the time since I don't do dailies, or anything else for that matter. lol

[DerSchneider]

What makes you think the GTN prices for purple mats will hold?

For those of us who actually enjoy playing, this is a GOOD THING... It means fewer undergeared people in ops and HM FP and an easier answer to those who are... Go fix your gear, it is now cheaper, no more excuses...

 

I enjoy making money by crafting augments. Well, actually... enjoyed. Adaptive circuitry is 20k on TOFN, augments dropped from 90k to 55k. AND it's just the first day.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

First, people will likely run fewer dailies.

 

Second, the money paid for mats doesn't vanish, it just moves to another player.

 

Third, I think you over estimate how many people will spend more than a few hours at the slot machine, it does get boring. I'll do it for 15-20 min while waiting for an op to form or PvP to pop, but that is it.

 

Yes I also thought this but at some point people still need to run dailies to bring new income into the game surely? Otherwise there may just be masses of mats listed and not many people buying.

 

Fair second point and I guess that ties back in with the dailies. If noone is running dailies then there is in effect a sink effect as money is being put into "spins" instead of being brought into circulation by running the dailies.

 

In terms of purple mats at least half an hour is more than enough time to build enough materials to craft with for a few toons and/or days.

 

Green mats not so much depending what you are crafting.

 

This is why I thought the green will be the new purple.

 

With regular crew missions, running Bountiful / Rich results in an average cost of 4k per purple mat.

 

Hmm I don't run those ( only mission discoveries ) so that assumedly takes into consideration a certain crit rate? What is the crit rate ( 20% or so ? ) and how many purples do you get for a crit? Mission discovery TH for Midlithe are 3 purps or 5 for a crit.

 

I believe the mission is about 4K for Midlithe so 20% is 20K spent per crit but I don't think you get 5 per crit do you?

 

 

Slot machines result in average of 2k per jawa junk after selling the reputation.

 

From my post in another thread you are also posting in ( that I've yet to catch up on, probably end up repeating myself )

 

Assume for arguments sake that the market rates of each material type drop evenly in value. 81 materials to recover 36,500 is 450 credits per material unit.

 

Mind you that was just some quick math based off someone else's drop rates ( I've not bothered with the slots myself -yet- if I manage to get my own I will or I may try it in my guild flagship if they have some but otherwise I have more than enough money/items to suit me for some time and still have maxed GTN slots all the time - space is a premium for me lol ).

 

The prices have plummeted, but everything is still profitable. All that's happened is the huuuuuuge margins have evaporated. I find it vaguely amusing to see people pointing at Midlithe selling for 12k instead of 60k as "evidence" that the economy has crashed.

 

Guess it depends on your definition of crashed, I guess when I say crashed I should say dived or crashing.

 

Whether or not it crashes remains to be seen. Crash to me would be it the mats actually sell for less than you can run a crew skill for ( or worse, vendor them lol ).

 

Also depends on the math, averages etc. If you only got 2 Midlithe from a crit as per above then that's 10K per mat and we're pretty much at that stage already ...

 

Currently mission discovery price vs midlithe price is a loss so surprised people are still paying so much for midlithe.

 

Time will tell though I don't see this lasting beyond the next patch.

[Swannigan]

It really is quite crazy, my guildmate got one and gave me a key to his stronghold, been here 2-3 hours watching a film and went from newcomer rep to champion rep, got myself a command throne and only spent about 400k

[Elracor]

If the prices are dropping so drastically, then in the end it will be a credit sink again. Cartel Certs are the "Jackpot" item, and you have to input several stacks of Cartel Chips to get one.

 

In the short run some people will wind up ahead, but in the long term there will be more items available on the GTN for much better prices, and the slot machine will transition into another way to convert credits to mats.

 

One thing is that it is 'another way' converting credits into mats. I think that is fine.

 

My issue with the slot machine, or rather its current drop rates, is that it seems more efficient to rightclick a slotmachine to get purple grade 11 mats than to level up a Crafting Mission skill (e.g. Treasure Hunting) to 500 and do Rich/Bountiful missions.

 

Alternatives to Crew Skills is fine, but I think this alternative is too effective.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Also aren't the cartel certificates mostly credit sinks also ( except for the fleet vendor decos I believe )?

 

I.e. you still need to put forward a fair amount of credits to buy an item as well as the certs. Off the top of my head I think most the legend stuff that is like 3 certs is also at least 100K that is sunk out of the economy?

[XiamaraSimi]

Also aren't the cartel certificates mostly credit sinks also ( except for the fleet vendor decos I believe )?

 

I.e. you still need to put forward a fair amount of credits to buy an item as well as the certs. Off the top of my head I think most the legend stuff that is like 3 certs is also at least 100K that is sunk out of the economy?

 

Indeed they are, and they got lots of credits from me today, i bought every mount & pet they had, and the malgus statue.... always wanted them, but didnt have the rep. And i finally put a dent in the stack of 80 certs i accumulated opening packs over the last year or so...

 

(Only thing that interested me from the newest resale vendors was the cyber monkey)

Edited January 16, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[Infernixx]

It really is quite crazy, my guildmate got one and gave me a key to his stronghold, been here 2-3 hours watching a film and went from newcomer rep to champion rep, got myself a command throne and only spent about 400k

 

This is why I like this thing the most. It opens up the Cartel Market Rep vendors to all the people who don't have the money/credits to spend on Cartel Packs.

 

I'm already max rep with all of them, myself, but the Cartel Certs are pretty nice since I'm now able to get some really nice sets of armor from the vendors that I ignored before because they weren't worth the credits and good RNG needed to get them through gaining Certs from packs.

[Khevar]

Hmm I don't run those ( only mission discoveries ) so that assumedly takes into consideration a certain crit rate? What is the crit rate ( 20% or so ? ) and how many purples do you get for a crit? Mission discovery TH for Midlithe are 3 purps or 5 for a crit.

Yeah, it's a 20% crit rate (with full affection).

 

Bountiful missions return 2 purples on a crit, and Rich missions return 3 purples on a crit.

 

I calculated my costs by logging each mission run (1036 of them until I got bored), loading them into a database, and running queries against the data set. For the Bountiful missions, the average cost per purple was 6.3k. For the Rich missions, the average cost per purple was 2.7k. For both collectively, the average cost was 4k.

 

Note that this includes vendoring the excess blue mats to defray the cost of running the missions.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Khevar

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Note that this includes vendoring the excess blue mats to defray the cost of running the missions.

 

Ah yup ok that makes more sense because I was still lost at how you were getting those numbers with a 20% crit rate for a minute there.

[Khevar]

Ah yup ok that makes more sense because I was still lost at how you were getting those numbers with a 20% crit rate for a minute there.

Yeah, without that, it's definitely more expensive, coming in at 7.2k per purple.

[Heat-Wave]

Yes I also thought this but at some point people still need to run dailies to bring new income into the game surely? Otherwise there may just be masses of mats listed and not many people buying.

 

Dailies are not the only source of money in the game... Ops, FP, leveling, etc...

 

Besides, you get credits from selling rep tokens and from various other places, and from vendoring trash, and I have several terminals in my stronghold that just make credits outright, so...

[Drockter]

What makes you think the GTN prices for purple mats will hold?

 

Give it a week, take a zero off the prices...

 

This will drive down purple mats and bring purple gear including 186 augments to a much larger section of the player base.

 

For those of us who actually enjoy playing, this is a GOOD THING... It means fewer undergeared people in ops and HM FP and an easier answer to those who are... Go fix your gear, it is now cheaper, no more excuses...

 

Completely agree here. I craft some for sale.. but mostly craft for guildies.. the Midlithe crystals have been killing me... bank is filling up with them now (since anyone can buy them with the Jawa Junk)... and it looks like we can begin progressing with Starship expansion again (if they fix the schem back to the SPPC)

[OddballEasyEight]

its not a cred sink, if it was a true credit sink the coins would be 25k each not 500c each, people making millions off mats they only spend 100k in coins for. Also it has brought the end of companions as we know it now, we had our companions for 3 years but now there time is done.

 

Actually no.

Everything that removes credits from the game is a credit sink.

Taxis are a credit sink for example.

People may have only spent 100k for the mats, but that money is gone from the game whereas the money they get from selling the mats isn't made out of thin air, it comes from other players so it's just transferred.

And I use companions for crafting and in combat... so they're not useless.

[Shoraan]

Actually no.

Everything that removes credits from the game is a credit sink.

Taxis are a credit sink for example.

People may have only spent 100k for the mats, but that money is gone from the game whereas the money they get from selling the mats isn't made out of thin air, it comes from other players so it's just transferred.

And I use companions for crafting and in combat... so they're not useless.

 

Companions are also still good for green mats. Green mats with crew missions cost about 500 per unit. That's far less than the average of around 2000- 2500 per unit you get from the slot machine. Let me get the post from that other thread where I did the math...

 

Edit: Link to my other post with the math:

Cost of Jawa Junk compared to crew missions

Edited January 16, 2015 by Shoraan

[OddballEasyEight]

Companions are also still good for green mats. Green mats with crew missions cost about 500 per unit. That's far less than the average of around 2000- 2500 per unit you get from the slot machine. Let me get the post from that other thread where I did the math...

 

Edit: Link to my other post with the math:

Cost of Jawa Junk compared to crew missions

That's true. But nobody is running the slot machine to get greens

 

As for the credit sink:

 

Sure, but the other credit sink (ie. crew missions) might have been more effective per unit cost but you miss the fact that people are doing this alot faster and alot more ferociously (at least right now), so in the long run, it's a more effective credit sink.

(ie. people are pouring more credits into the slot machines faster than they ever could with crew skills, so more credits per hour are being removed now than with crew skills.)

Edited January 16, 2015 by OddballEasyEight

[Shoraan]

That's true. But nobody is running the slot machine to get greens

 

As for the credit sink:

 

Sure, but the other credit sink (ie. crew missions) might have been more effective per unit cost but you miss the fact that people are doing this alot faster and alot more ferociously (at least right now), so in the long run, it's a more effective credit sink.

(ie. people are pouring more credits into the slot machines faster than they ever could with crew skills, so more credits per hour are being removed now than with crew skills.)

 

I was just saying that crew missions are still relevant, opposing the claim that companions are now worthless.

 

Regarding the credit sink:

You're right, I didn't think of that. For the moment, they seem to be a better credit sink than crew missions. That's actually brilliant. Players get their mats cheaper and credits are removed faster. And no more 1000% profit on crafted 186 gear (which is fine in my eyes; I almost felt bad selling 186 droid parts or relics for 250K each).

 

Pro tip: Now that Augments are becoming much cheaper, I guess we'll see a rising demand for MK-10 Kits. And their production cost is not affected by the slot machines, so they will probably stay at above 45K for a while.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Shoraan

[tdmaha]

its not a cred sink, if it was a true credit sink the coins would be 25k each not 500c each, people making millions off mats they only spend 100k in coins for. Also it has brought the end of companions as we know it now, we had our companions for 3 years but now there time is done.

 

Hmm that's weird last night when I was running around I sent out my companions. Then before I logged off went and played slots and at the same time sent out companions, oh and while I was doing dailies I had a companion with me...I'm sorry how exactly are companions done?