I did the exploit...

[Draqsko]

Seen a lot of bluster coming from so called "loyal" players.

Lets not forget-

 

1. The exploit was there on the PTS together with a whole lot more, too many too list here .

2.. Bioware knew about all the bugs and exploits and still went ahead with the release.

3. So far, no software company has ever been punished in British courts for releasing sub standard software products under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, which clearly states -Goods & services must be as described, satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. If goods or services are faulty, you can claim from the retailer/supplier.

I wonder if the above is worth testing?

 

A game is meant to be fun and not taken seriously like real life. Using the ban hammer would be taken seriously by those that use a six monthly subscription. £70 is a lot of money to lose. As all the players that used the exploit were level 60 players and all subscribers. Bioware need to be very careful who they piss off.

 

You can try but you'll lose money doing it, because of the EUALA you signed when you downloaded the program.

 

Warranties

 

This Section is to be read subject to Sections 6 and 7.

No Warranty on Software Operation or Game Play; Force Majeure.

 

You acknowledge that, owing to the complexity of computer technology, as well as the nature of online games themselves and play over a global communications network outside EA’s control, EA and its licensors cannot and do not guarantee that the Software, the Game and any updates, upgrades or expansions Software will run permanently or uninterrupted on your computer. EA and its licensors are not liable for delays, system failures, system outages or difficulties, especially of a technical nature, that are due to legal restrictions or other circumstances beyond its control, including but not limited to third party criminal activity. EA also does not guarantee that the version of the Game covered by this Agreement will be playable in geographic locations where it is not available for sale at retail and/or at all times of the day and/or night.

 

Limited Remedy For Defects.

 

In the event that there is any defect in the Software or any recording media on which it is embodied, your sole remedy is a replacement copy of the Software. You may also have additional rights under applicable local law, which varies by jurisdiction.

 

Disclaimer of Warranties. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTY ON RECORDING MEDIA (IF APPLICABLE), AND TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSIBLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, THE SOFTWARE, THE GAME AND ALL OTHER SERVICES PROVIDED BY EA ARE PROVIDED TO YOU "AS IS," WITH ALL FAULTS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, WITHOUT PERFORMANCE ASSURANCES OR GUARANTEES OF ANY KIND, AND YOUR USE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. THE ENTIRE RISK OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE RESIDES WITH YOU.

 

So you can't indemnify them for the product even if it is defective, since you agreed to the service "AS IS."

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Probably the only 60 in my guild who didn't.

 

By any chance though is the OP Eric Musco and this is their cunning plan on catching everyone that did ...

[Andryah]

You can try but you'll lose money doing it, because of the EUALA you signed when you downloaded the program.

 

 

 

So you can't indemnify them for the product even if it is defective, since you agreed to the service "AS IS."

 

Yeah.. this is the part that makes the entitled and self-denial folks cry rivers of tears, after the fact of course:

Disclaimer of Warranties. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTY ON RECORDING MEDIA (IF APPLICABLE), AND TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSIBLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, THE SOFTWARE, THE GAME AND ALL OTHER SERVICES PROVIDED BY EA ARE PROVIDED TO YOU "AS IS," WITH ALL FAULTS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, WITHOUT PERFORMANCE ASSURANCES OR GUARANTEES OF ANY KIND, AND YOUR USE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. THE ENTIRE RISK OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE RESIDES WITH YOU.

 

One would think that after years of playing MMOs.. the playerbase would know this and embrace it for what it is... being as it is in every ToS/EULA of every MMO in the world. They don't have to like it, but they cannot deny it.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Andryah

[Sangrar]

N.

O.

 

No.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Sangrar

[Sangrar]

here is some advice: no offense, but your guild sounds like a bunch of *****bags, you would be way better off finding a new one that doesn't try to require you to use exploits.

 

anyway, hope you stick around, at least you owned up to your mistakes unlike many exploiters.

[Kourage]

If BioWare suspends anyone for even a day, I suggest you just cancel your subscriptions. You're not getting your moneys worth anyhow. They're charging $15 a month and running a bare bones development team.

[Sangrar]

If BioWare suspends anyone for even a day, I suggest you just cancel your subscriptions. You're not getting your moneys worth anyhow. They're charging $15 a month and running a bare bones development team.

 

um ... cause its so unfair to the people for the people who used the exploit to get punished because they willingly chose to do an exploit? I get they should have fixed it a lot sooner, A LOT SOONER, but those people were by no right given permission to keep exploiting.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Sangrar

[Shoraan]

Yeah.. this is the part that makes the entitled and self-denial folks cry rivers of tears, after the fact of course:

 

 

One would think that after years of playing MMOs.. the playerbase would know this and embrace it for what it is... being as it is in every ToS/EULA of every MMO in the world. They don't have to like it, but they cannot deny it.

 

Slightly off-topic:

There is a simple reason for that, too. If MMO companies started to only release new stuff after extensive testing and bugfixes and testing again and so on, we'd see a new ops once every two years or so. The same players complaing about the bugs would then complain about the lack of content. Even smartphone apps and LoB software have bugs. Compared to these a game like SWTOR is so complex that bugs are not only inevitable but to be fully expected. There are so many variables that it's just impossible to test and fix everything while sticking to planned release dates.

 

If there are bugs in the game it's ok to use a workaround (either official, like /stuck when really stuck, or inofficial like switching instances as was the case with the meat tree on Rishi). It's not ok to exploit those bugs when they go against the devs' intentions. "Taxes are too high, so it's ok to cheat on taxes." Has that ever worked in front of a judge?

Edited January 14, 2015 by Shoraan

[Eanelinea]

You can try but you'll lose money doing it, because of the EUALA you signed when you downloaded the program.

 

 

 

So you can't indemnify them for the product even if it is defective, since you agreed to the service "AS IS."

 

Everything you said, QFT even if not truly quoted cause I'm lazy.

 

Funny how people forget they had to trudge through this with their mouse wheel/cursor before being allowed to click log in their first time...

[Drehzen]

As much as I hate exploiters, I respect you for coming forward. I think deleting at the items and maybe a temporary ban would be fair.

[MikeDodgers]

There is an aweful lot going around in here. BioWare in the past has a history of not punishing those who use exploits. In the past when the Ilum pylon exploit was found they applauded at how people find a way to exploit current mechanics. Once again, they releases it, it was not intended to be done that way, people used it in the manner they didn't intend and then they fixed it called it an exploit and that was that.

 

Is this different. No, let us look. It was an unintended consequence of what they released, if it is to be believed they knew of it (possibly didn't know how to fix it immediately), let it go and didn't do or say anything until it was widespread and a fix was in the next patch.

 

Coming out and saying that I did it, I own up, is fine and it takes courage, why because you people are bagging them for coming out. We make mistakes, we all do, To Err is Human as the saying is and we learn from our mistakes. But the punishment must fit the crime and people talking of permanent banning people who used it is like giving someone the death penalty for speeding. If we speed, we know the consequences and we receive our fine and pay it. If we know the consequences of our actions we are more likely to make more rational decisions.

 

If anyone who used the exploit knew, they were going to get a permanent ban from using it, like speeding, we know we will get a fine if we are caught speeding. So one can't be surprised when the punishment is dished out. We have no history of BioWare punishing those who exploit the game and IF they choose this time completely goes against any precedent before and ban people, temporary or even permanent it would be a surprise and subsequently something anyone who did it wasn't aware of, and therefore we can't expect them to accept the punishment when in comparison to what has happened before is not the same.

 

I disagree to anyone who like to stand the moral high ground and claim people had a choice and they should take their punishment and not blub about it. But there is also degrees, someone who used it a couple of times, has some 192 gear out of it and all is OK, and those who were making profit from it, who used it, again and again, toon after toon, sold access to it for credits, crafted and made credits of the reversed engineered items received from that use and when Eric came out and mentioned about the exploit and continued to use it, should be treat them the same as those who did it a couple of times.

[Drockter]

But there is also degrees, someone who used it a couple of times, has some 192 gear out of it and all is OK, and those who were making profit from it, who used it, again and again, toon after toon, sold access to it for credits, crafted and made credits of the reversed engineered items received from that use and when Eric came out and mentioned about the exploit and continued to use it, should be treat them the same as those who did it a couple of times.

 

I completely agree... there are degrees. And no, I don't think that all who used the exploit should be treated exactly the same. This seems to get lost in the fray here in the forums... there needs to be a middle ground. Couple times vs farming it... two different levels of exploit. and should be handled accordingly.

 

I do disagree that they have not punished exploiters before... google can answer that question. But no, not everyone should be treated identically.

[heizluefta]

They stated that "most" players dint use the exploit. Numbers ?

They can tell anything !

And:

They must be acting like that ! Is there any other possibility to make a statement for a company ?

But i doubt its honestly and i think they will never ever say how many ppl really did it !

Edited January 14, 2015 by heizluefta

[DasRoach]

2 things I would like to add to this:

 

1) thank you for an entertaining read, this thread has delivered

 

2) The self righteous twits who are saying that the 31337 raiders are the 'core group' of this game and their loss would impact this game negatively are dreaming.

 

It is a known fact in MMO communities that raiders (and especially end tier raiders) are a small, tiny minority of the player base. Let me cite some examples:

 

World of Warcraft: modified the LFG tool to have a LFR feature with specially tweaked (nerfed) raids so that the average player could experience raids because they couldn't justify the art/coding resources being spent on content less than 5% of the playerbase actually saw.

 

Lord of the rings online: Such a small percentile of their playerbase took part in raiding that they ditched raids altogether.

 

The Secret World : They will soon have their 2nd raid after being live for over 2 years because, once again, such a small percentile raids that they can not justify a lot of resources being aimed at niche content.

 

TLDR: waaah waaah waaah, hardcore raiders are not special snowflakes and are not the core group of this games financial viability as much as they would like to think so. Your devotion to your toon and its collection of pixels makes me think you have lost touch with the idea of playing a game to have fun and any punishment meted out by BW should hopefully serve as a reality check.

[heizluefta]

2 things I would like to add to this:

 

1) thank you for an entertaining read, this thread has delivered

 

2) The self righteous twits who are saying that the 31337 raiders are the 'core group' of this game and their loss would impact this game negatively are dreaming.

 

It is a known fact in MMO communities that raiders (and especially end tier raiders) are a small, tiny minority of the player base. Let me cite some examples:

 

World of Warcraft: modified the LFG tool to have a LFR feature with specially tweaked (nerfed) raids so that the average player could experience raids because they couldn't justify the art/coding resources being spent on content less than 5% of the playerbase actually saw.

 

Lord of the rings online: Such a small percentile of their playerbase took part in raiding that they ditched raids altogether.

 

The Secret World : They will soon have their 2nd raid after being live for over 2 years because, once again, such a small percentile raids that they can not justify a lot of resources being aimed at niche content.

 

TLDR: waaah waaah waaah, hardcore raiders are not special snowflakes and are not the core group of this games financial viability as much as they would like to think so. Your devotion to your toon and its collection of pixels makes me think you have lost touch with the idea of playing a game to have fun and any punishment meted out by BW should hopefully serve as a reality check.

 

Nice & good post.

But:

why do some MMO´s just ignore the "middle" ? And just give the "Raiders" the flag ?

And not to forget the pvp players. Although im not playing PVP in that game atm, id really state that if u want to balance the game, ask them !? PVP is and was always a factor and a source for getting problems solved, getting some even recognized, getting a kind of balancing that might even play out in pve all the time ! If u once balance the classes in pvp for example, im sure, it might be much easier to balance pve !

 

The point is: i have no reason to punish anyone or to state "raiders or casuals" are the ones to follow or not to follow.

But id also say: "u need to watch more than your numbers"!

Do you remember how that all began ?

That kind of motivation everyone had just thinking about SWTOR coming out soon ?

Today, these days, it seems to work with other games, like star citizen or others. But less intense.

 

Is there any kind of "Star Wars-Feeling" left ?

 

(sry for the lack of native english)

Edited January 14, 2015 by heizluefta

[DasRoach]

The point I am making is that from a purely financial perspective, most MMO's tend to make the majority of their money from the casual players and although the hardcore raiders do make up a percentile of the paying player base, they do not have as much impact on the financial bottom line of companies as they would like to think they do. They do however, tend to be very vocal on community forums because of the time investment and personal attachment they have to their toon/game of choice.

 

If you are referring to those casual players who exploited, well, the server database has records of who and when entered certain instances, for how long and what they received, so I think that given enough time to data-trawl, BW will be able to verify those who exploited to gain.

 

My personal expectation would be removal of ill-gotten gear, mats and a reset of the players credits to zero. Sure, some of those caught will QQ and sure, some will throw a hissy fit and leave but their loss of subscription will not really be noticeable at all. I understand that some feel that previous precedents have some people thinking they should not get punished, but at the end of the day, its BW's game and we all agreed to the end user license agreement.

 

-=edit=-

 

ahh now I see what you are getting at, but sadly the reality is that games are run by corporations now and everything comes down to the numbers. If you cannot justify something having enough of a potential financial gain then the suits upstairs will not green light the project/tweak/mod for the developers to work on.

 

people complain about the focus put on cartel items but the reality is that they have a tangible financial gain that can be tracked and they obviously sell well and that is why they keep putting out cash shop items.

 

This is the way of the world.

Edited January 14, 2015 by DasRoach

[Pcolapat]

And if your argument is that raiders are an insignificant percentage of the overall population of the server, and bioware should not fret over losing them, than the high tier raiding gear that got exploited would have never been available to the majority of the population without some sort of exploit because the majority of you don't raid.. So what is all the fuss about? Why cry over gear you were not going to ever get legitimately to begin with?

 

Basically, the people that knew about the exploit, knew about it because they were raiders. They are the same people that would have eventually gotten the gear anyway and the majority of you would still be sporting 192s until the next tier comes out and bioware just hands you the 198s.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Pcolapat

[twpotter]

Can you imagine the bugs that gear/coms/creds/ reverse engineering removal will introduce to the game?

 

The complexities of gear/coms/creds/ reverse engineering removal are enormous.

[DasRoach]

And if your argument is that raiders are an insignificant percentage of the overall population of the server, and bioware should not fret over losing them, than the high tier raiding gear that got exploited would have never been available to the majority of the population without some sort of exploit because the majority of you don't raid.. So what is all the fuss about? Why cry over gear you were not going to ever get?

 

That argument is based on the presumption that all raiders exploited which I doubt is the case. Only BW has the raw data of who exploited and who didn't and I suspect that BW punishing the exploiters would not result in all the raiders disappearing overnight. I suspect that those who did leave because of punishment for their cheating would find their positions filled in due time.

 

I spent 4 years in a realm first guild in WoW before I finally came to the realization of how unhealthy the obsessive compulsive drive to stay at the top of your game really is, so I can understand both sides but I felt the urge to join in this conversation simply because of some of the comments from raiders making themselves out as special snowflakes and crucial to the community. Consider my comments as playing devils advocate in that I am pointing out that some people are not as special as they like to think they are.

 

-=edit=- it's also of note to point out that the end tier gear is not needed in the slightest to see and enjoy 95%-99% of the game.

Edited January 14, 2015 by DasRoach

[MotorCityMan]

I did it a total of 5 times. 3 on one server, 2 on another.

 

My main reason for this is because I wanted to optimize my characters, and I was told if I didn't do the exploit I would be kicked from my raiding team entirely. That's my only reason for doing it.

 

I was also told to give a guild crafter one of those purple mats, so I gave him one and he gave me a barrel in return. I haven't done anything with the other mats as they are sitting in my inventory.

 

I know some guild members who have done it 10+ times, I know the people who told me about it. In fact the first time I did it, I didn't even know. Some guildie invited me to a group I was just told to set the ops group to 16m story and I told the I've already done Ravagers on 8 man, but he obviously went in and looted. I guess I must have unknowingly assisted with someone to do it.

 

I obviously regret doing it, but I was wondering what the circumstances have to be in order to be punished. What sort of punishment will there be? Will I be permabanned from the game? How many times is bannable? If you've got schematics from the items and made millions of credits, is that more of an offense?

 

Don't ban him Bioware, the devil made him do it !!

[Pcolapat]

I was just pointing out the absurdity of the comments about raiders being an insignificant part of the community. If they were insignificant, than none of this drama would be going on. All this frothing at the mouth is coming from the entire community (mostly PVPers and casual players), most of whom would not have even made a serious attempt to acquire a full set of the highest tier of PVE gear, yet they act like they got left out in the rain. Most of the community would have never gotten that gear until the next tier comes out when BW just hands it to them. Edited January 14, 2015 by Pcolapat

[emeraldon]

A game is meant to be fun and not taken seriously like real life. Using the ban hammer would be taken seriously by those that use a six monthly subscription. £70 is a lot of money to lose. As all the players that used the exploit were level 60 players and all subscribers. Bioware need to be very careful who they piss off.

 

This **** is the argument I see get thrown around the most both on forums and ingame. Just because you're a subscriber, you're above reproach? BioWare shouldn't (finally) drop the hammer on people who actively seek to exploit unintented game mechanics? Are you *********** serious?

 

If you do this - exploit the game like this to gain a possibly huge profit and gear, you know it's wrong. You KNOW it's not supposed to be that easy to gear up and get credits / materials. Knowing all this, you still continue, and then you have the *********** balls to go "oh well if they punish me I QUIT!!"

 

I truly hope BioWare does take action. I hope they remove every single piece of aquired materials, gears and schematics and dish out at least 3 day bans. This is absolutely warranted and you people reading this who repeatedly exploited Ravagers - if this makes you quit, good riddance. You broke the ToS, you knew it was unintented. Don't try to justify it by saying "ohhr bee dubya didnt fix so they allowed it to happen" - hodor.

[DasRoach]

You misconstrue my words Pcolapat, I am not saying they are insignificant, merely pointing out that they are a minority. You are also assuming that I am jealous of the raiders (I am not, but I cannot speak for others) but I feel that if you cheat or exploit and get caught then you can not complain if there are consequences for your actions, be you raider, casual, free to play or what ever.

 

I am however pointing out that raiders are not special snow flakes and should not expect special treatment because some of them see themselves as a special part of the community that BW has to cater to.

 

I can not speak for others, merely speak my own personal perspective on the matter, but I would kindly request you carefully read my comments and not misunderstand the point I am trying to make.

Edited January 14, 2015 by DasRoach

[BuriDogshin]

This **** is the argument I see get thrown around the .... Are you *********** serious ... and then you have the *********** balls to go ...

 

BTW, just like exploiting a bug to gain an unfair advantage:

"Profanity is not acceptable in communications on the forums or anywhere on the Service."

-- SWTOR Rules of Conduct.

[Pcolapat]

And I am pointing out that this outrage from the community is unwarranted. The only players that have a right to cry foul are raiders that did not use the exploit. Everyone else would have never gotten that gear anyway. The end result for them would be the same if the exploit had never existed.