Revan vs Vitiate(possible spoilers)

[Kyrrant]

I disagree.

 

Satele even has to urge him to keep his cool in one of those cutscenes, as seen

.

 

In other words, Lana retains her composure throughout the ENTIRE exchange, while Theron, still bitter over what went down on Rishi, lashes out -- repeatedly.

 

Call it a hunch? But I think he's more angry at the Republic soldiers who died because the Imperials didn't share critical intelligence.

 

Some people, huh?

Edited January 14, 2015 by Kyrrant

[Darth_Wicked]

Call it a hunch? But I think he's more angry at the Republic soldiers who died because the Imperials didn't share critical intelligence.

 

Some people, huh?

 

There's a difference between being angry due to that fact -- which is logical -- and taking every opportunity to take a jab at Lana, presumably for what happened down on Rishi.

 

Again, there's a reason

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Kyrrant]

There's a difference between being angry due to that fact -- which is logical -- and taking every opportunity to take a jab at Lana, presumably for what happened down on Rishi.

 

Again, there's a reason

 

Yes: Because she's a Jedi, and thus the sort that would urge that those she's depending on should be calm (also, she's her mother, so one could argue that she's very much mothering him), and because the alliance is needed, everyone needs to stay calm, focused and interested in collaboration.

 

You know, what Lana doesn't do when she suggests spying on the Republic.

 

There might be some anger from what happened on Rishi, but that doesn't excuse Lana's side of it either. Its just anger over the war coloring everything.

[Darth_Wicked]

Yes: Because she's a Jedi, and thus the sort that would urge that those she's depending on should be calm (also, she's her mother, so one could argue that she's very much mothering him), and because the alliance is needed, everyone needs to stay calm, focused and interested in collaboration.

 

Yeah, the part she refers to him as "agent" or "my agent" sounds very mothering.

 

You know, what Lana doesn't do when she suggests spying on the Republic.

 

Theron also suggests spying on the Empire. Call it a draw?

 

There might be some anger from what happened on Rishi, but that doesn't excuse Lana's side of it either. Its just anger over the war coloring everything.

 

Mind you, I'm not excusing her but I can understand where she's coming from; Theron on the other hand, not so much. It sucks to be in his position, but again, heat of the moment / split-second decision kind of thing.

 

He should understand it better than anyone, one would think.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Kyrrant]

Yeah, the part she refers to him as "agent" or "my agent" sounds very mothering.

 

She almost certainly says that in order to explicitly distance him from her in her mind, a deliberate action in order to push herself away.

 

But she's still a human being, and as disconnected from him as she wants to be, she'll still want the best for him, and stopping him from being overly emotional is very much Jedi mothering.

 

Theron also suggests spying on the Empire. Call it a draw?

 

That's basically my point: Both sides are acting dirty here because there's little trust. An external threat can only bridge the gap so much.

 

Mind you, I'm not excusing her but I can understand where she's coming from; Theron on the other hand, not so much. It sucks to be in his position, but again, heat of the moment / split-second decision kind of thing.

 

He should understand it better than anyone, one would think.

 

Not to bring caps into this or anything but HE WAS (apparently) BETRAYED BY HIS CLOSEST ALLY AND TORTURED. Dude's allowed to take his time coming off the angst.

[Darth_Wicked]

She almost certainly says that in order to explicitly distance him from her in her mind, a deliberate action in order to push herself away.

 

But she's still a human being, and as disconnected from him as she wants to be, she'll still want the best for him, and stopping him from being overly emotional is very much Jedi mothering.

 

That I do believe in.

 

Unfortunately, aside from the mail you receive following the end of the expansion, you never get to see any of this IMO. In other words, as stated earlier, while Lana and Jakarro seem to develop as characters --

-- Theron remains in limbo.

 

That's basically my point: Both sides are acting dirty here because there's little trust. An external threat can only bridge the gap so much.

 

True but that's not what I'm discussing. My earlier point is that Theron seems determined to throw a jab at Lana at every turn;

 

Not to bring caps into this or anything but HE WAS (apparently) BETRAYED BY HIS CLOSEST ALLY AND TORTURED. Dude's allowed to take his time coming off the angst.

 

True once more, but again: threat analysis, risk assessment, etc etc, can't be determined while taking pause, every single time. Lana had to make a choice and she did it. In the end, it payed off.

 

That's what should matter the most I think. Plus, it's not like Theron was permanently crippled or anything.

 

I think.

 

Depending on how they tortured him.

 

Edited January 15, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[dcaleb]

Dude was set up, abducted by the enemy, tortured and came rather close to getting killed, because this Sith b- woman decided they needed to get a trojan horse into the enemy's midst so they could learn more intel without thinking to warn him about it, and she hides this from their other allies until he calls her on it.

 

I'm like 90% sure that it wasn't a preplanned move on her part, she acted like it was a spontaneous sort of 'well, if he has been captured he can be a trojan horse so no need to bother trying to save him' decision (honestly, I personally felt like that was just an excuse she made up later to justify being a chicken **** coward). But again, I basically just told him to shut up because I don't like him when I was on my Republic play-through so who knows what she would have said if I tagged in to pressure her on the matter.

[rashadk]

in the case of Revan his being an ops boss is in response to the rabid revan fanboys complaining that he was "taken down by ONLY 4 'nobodies"

 

In my limited time on the forums I have observed the ratio of posts mentioning "revan fanboys" to posts actually written by those fanboys as being 10:1.

[dcaleb]

In my limited time on the forums I have observed the ratio of posts mentioning "revan fanboys" to posts actually written by those fanboys as being 10:1.

 

Obviously they were buried under an avalanche of people who disagreed to them and moved to some other site.

[Ghisallo]

Vitate would still have one...he would have sucked all life from the Galaxy as someone else said. However one can see why Revan could be an OPs boss. My issue is that they had him be both...essentially a FP and an OPs boss.

 

Why does it make sense being an OPs boss?.

At this point he is essentially mad...he is also essentially "Dark Revan", his light side essence being a Force Ghost. Combine " bright Revan" being a separate entity, Revan being utterly consumed by Revenge and being on Yavin IV (a planet heavily tainted by the the dark side) he might as well be main lining the dark side. The problem is he lacks 1300 years of experience, the "natural" power of Vitiate, the alchemical tools etc. So a truly revived Vitiate could still beat his *** BUT he could still be powerful enough to require a small army to take down

 

 

As for the Revan Fanbois saying "nobodies" took Revan down... Weird last I checked Satele Shan is the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, the Consular not only rediscovered lost force techniques but rose from Padawan to Master and Jedi Council members in months if not weeks. The Knight slew the Emperor's Voice...I could go on but the characters we play are the Skywalker's, Kenobi's, Solo's and yes Revan. All of the great heroes that have come before or will come after the war, our character's stand among them as equals. That was part of the expressed goal during the creation of this game. To merge the idea of u being THE hero like the KOTOR games with an MMO.

[Kyrrant]

As for the Revan Fanbois saying "nobodies" took Revan down... Weird last I checked Satele Shan is the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, the Consular not only rediscovered lost force techniques but rose from Padawan to Master and Jedi Council members in months if not weeks. The Knight slew the Emperor's Voice...I could go on but the characters we play are the Skywalker's, Kenobi's, Solo's and yes Revan. All of the great heroes that have come before or will come after the war, our character's stand among them as equals. That was part of the expressed goal during the creation of this game. To merge the idea of u being THE hero like the KOTOR games with an MMO.

 

For the record, the "nobodies" people talk about is Revan's....... I think third death? The one that happens in the Foundry instance, where four PC's took him down in a midlevel instance.

 

Rather uninspiring death, sadly, which is why it got retcon'd.

[Ghisallo]

For the record, the "nobodies" people talk about is Revan's....... I think third death? The one that happens in the Foundry instance, where four PC's took him down in a midlevel instance.

 

Rather uninspiring death, sadly, which is why it got retcon'd.

 

Well that makes it better but still... I would have seen that as acceptable. It may seem uninspiring but whether light side or dark, our characters are the greatest champions of this age. Tbh I am of two minds on the issue...from a practical point if view he should be eminently killable.

For a story point of view though I found that killing Revan after 5 levels in the expac kind of a let down. He could have run off to be a recurring threat. We could have seen him successfully kill the Emperor, and he is the main bad guy a new cold war forms as both the Republic and the Empire are now more concerned with the threat Revan poses. You could have gotten a good year or two worth of content out of that. I just hate expacs that have a sense of closure of the main storyline that quickly to be rather lacking. Look at the star wars movies. First imagine they came out in true number order. Next imagine Anakin killing Obi Wan and Sidious killing Yoda. Say bye bye to the IV-VI we know.

.

[Kyrrant]

For a story point of view though I found that killing Revan after 5 levels in the expac kind of a let down. He could have run off to be a recurring threat.

 

Yeah, I'm sure he's really dead.

 

Totally dead.

 

No way he'll show up again.

 

Nope.

 

Not a chance.

 

Dead and gone.

 

Merged with the Force.

 

Never going to come back ever.

[Ghisallo]

Yeah, I'm sure he's really dead.

 

Totally dead.

 

No way he'll show up again.

 

Nope.

 

Not a chance.

 

Dead and gone.

 

Merged with the Force.

 

Never going to come back ever.

 

If it wasn't for the fact he wasn't already literally "half dead" I would agree with ya. Even if he isn't though, the contortions needed to bring him back would seriously stretch suspension of disbelief, almost to the point of the infamous "Bobby's death was a dream" from the original Dallas TV series. Lol.

[Kyrrant]

If it wasn't for the fact he wasn't already literally "half dead" I would agree with ya. Even if he isn't though, the contortions needed to bring him back would seriously stretch suspension of disbelief, almost to the point of the infamous "Bobby's death was a dream" from the original Dallas TV series. Lol.

 

Being serious: He's probably no longer going to show up in physical form. But I practically guarantee you we'll see a Force Ghost Revan pop up again. Too much unfinished business for him to have him go away for good.

[dcaleb]

Logically speaking, the Revan you fight at the Foundry should be stronger then the Revan on Yavin because that Revan was whole and therefore had access to his full power. He was swapping between the light and dark side like a game breaking boss depending on what was more useful (pretty sure he even used both at the same time during certain points like he did in the novel) instead of being limited to only the dark side and having half a soul.

[angry-broom]

Logically speaking, the Revan you fight at the Foundry should be stronger then the Revan on Yavin because that Revan was whole and therefore had access to his full power. He was swapping between the light and dark side like a game breaking boss depending on what was more useful (pretty sure he even used both at the same time during certain points like he did in the novel) instead of being limited to only the dark side and having half a soul.

 

That Revan had just gotten out of jail and had also been drained by vitiate for 300 years, I doubt he was at max power, that being said Vitiate didn't seem to be anywhere near max power when the JK fought him (due to him splitting his soul and that rubbish), so I thought prime Revan could beat him at that point but now Vitiate is all mist so who knows.

 

I don't think Revan was strongest in SoR either, he was stronger than the Foundry version I believe if not due to him fully tapping into the darkside.

 

I'd say he was at his peak in the novel: Revan. Him and the Exile could have killed Vitiate I believe if Revan wasn't so arrogant in trying to redirect Vitiate's lightning, and instead blocked with his saber. Who knows what would have happened if Revan did that. There was also the whole Exile having that opportunity to kill Vitiate but saving Revan instead.

 

Also did it bug anyone else that Revan the "tactical genius" didn't straight up realize Satele was doing battle meditation and take her out, winning the fight? Damn MMO mechanics

[Ghisallo]

Logically speaking, the Revan you fight at the Foundry should be stronger then the Revan on Yavin because that Revan was whole and therefore had access to his full power. He was swapping between the light and dark side like a game breaking boss depending on what was more useful (pretty sure he even used both at the same time during certain points like he did in the novel) instead of being limited to only the dark side and having half a soul.

 

As Angry stated ... There you are dealing with a Revan the Republic forces had just broken out of stasis. Other than that though I actually wonder if the "dark Revan" would be stronger than a "whole Revan", here me out.

 

To me what ultimately balances A Light sider is a combination of the control needed (peace, serenity etc) and the fact that they can only go so far...the ends do not justify the means. The dark is by pure self interest. In essence when faced with overwhelming odds, the Sith would take his own child and use them as a shield. The idea of knowing self sacrifice in pursuit of a goal is basically unheard of.

 

 

Revan is pretty much full on dark side when we face him on Yavin. He is also so consumed by revenge that I think he has reached the stage of being a suicide bomber. If it meant he could kill the emperor he would drop a hand grenade at his own feet. I am sure he would be more than thrilled to live through a fight with the emperor but that was not the goal, destroying the emperor by any means necessary, even his own death, was the goal. That lack of self preservation makes him, imo, far more dangerous than the old Revan. The old Revan didn't just want the Emperor's end, he wanted to survive to lead.

 

[Darth_Wicked]

I'd say he was at his peak in the novel: Revan. Him and the Exile could have killed Vitiate I believe if Revan wasn't so arrogant in trying to redirect Vitiate's lightning, and instead blocked with his saber. Who knows what would have happened if Revan did that. There was also the whole Exile having that opportunity to kill Vitiate but saving Revan instead.

 

If I remember it right, T3 saved Revan at a moment the Emperor was using Force Lightning on him. Were it NOT for the little guy, as far as Revan goes, it is likely it would have ended up there.

 

Also did it bug anyone else that Revan the "tactical genius" didn't straight up realize Satele was doing battle meditation and take her out, winning the fight? Damn MMO mechanics

 

That "Revan" thought he could defeat the Emperor on his own. Plus, judging from

, he was seriously delusional.

 

In other words, I don't think he was scared by whatever Satele could or could NOT do.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Darkelefantos]

Also did it bug anyone else that Revan the "tactical genius" didn't straight up realize Satele was doing battle meditation and take her out, winning the fight? Damn MMO mechanics

To be fair to the poor MMO mechanics, she's actually very high on his threat table. It's basically (Tank companion) > PC > Marr > (well equipped non-HK DPS comp) > Satele > Lana > whatever. If he catches the player and Marr in a stun, he very much tries to kill Satele. Not that it matters because everyone's basically in godmode so he'll never manage anyway.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Darkelefantos

[Darth_Wicked]

To be fair to the poor MMO mechanics, she's actually very high on his threat table. It's basically (Tank companion) > PC > Marr > (well equipped non-HK DPS comp) > Satele > Lana > whatever. If he catches the player and Marr in a stun, he very much tries to kill Satele. Not that it matters because everyone's basically in godmode so he'll never manage anyway.

 

Judging from your list, you gotta wonder: is Jakarro totally useless or what?

 

In Legacy of the Rakata, for whatever reason, there's a delay in the moment he joins the battle, going from fifteen seconds to half a minute at times. No idea why.

 

Except for when I need to liberate him from the whirlpool, I tend to forget he's even there. He's a massive beast, a behemoth, yet the game never seems to convey that outside cutscenes.

 

Plus, his buffs indicate he's guarding someone, but I can never tell who.

 

Unless it's a joke and he's presumably "guarding" C2-D4.

 

[Darkelefantos]

Judging from your list, you gotta wonder: is Jakarro totally useless or what?

 

In Legacy of the Rakata, for whatever reason, there's a delay in the moment he joins the battle, going from fifteen seconds to half a minute at times. No idea why.

 

Except for when I need to liberate him from the whirlpool, I tend to forget he's even there. He's a massive beast, a behemoth, yet the game never seems to convey that outside cutscenes.

 

Plus, his buffs indicate he's guarding someone, but I can never tell who.

 

Unless it's a joke and he's presumably "guarding" C2-D4.

 

It gets better: his character class is defined as "Tank", the same as Marr. Jakarro is even worse than Marr at this, and Marr is barely better than the GSI droid at holding aggro. He also doesn't seem to contribute significant damage. In fact, despite the fact that Jakarro and D4 are adorably evil, I always free them last, because Emperor knows, I'd win the fight without them.

 

I guess him guarding the droid might be the truth.

[Darth_Wicked]

It gets better: his character class is defined as "Tank", the same as Marr. Jakarro is even worse than Marr at this, and Marr is barely better than the GSI droid at holding aggro. He also doesn't seem to contribute significant damage. In fact, despite the fact that Jakarro and D4 are adorably evil, I always free them last, because Emperor knows, I'd win the fight without them.

 

I guess him guarding the droid might be the truth.

 

I experience the same oddly enough.

 

It's not a conscious decision but it seems to always happen either way. You just get the feeling everyone contributes to the fight in some way, except for him. I mean...

 

 

• Lana heals and can also DPS I believe

 

• Satele heals and her battle-like meditation thing going on, plus heals I think?

 

• Marr is terrible maintaining aggro, but his taunts here and there are useful. Maybe the aggro thing is why he managed to stay in the Council for so long.

 

• Shae Vizla... well, hard to miss really.

 

• Theron has his Ballistic Shield going on more than once; hard to miss it.

 

Jakarro, on the other hand, I have no idea what he was going for him.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Ghisallo]

 

Jakarro, on the other hand, I have no idea what he was going for him.

 

when you have

 

 

do u need anything else?

[Darth_Wicked]

when you have

 

 

do u need anything else?

 

Smugglers have a Wookie companion since Vanilla.

 

Regardless, my point is that he feels ultimately useless during whatever confrontation pops up.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Darth_Wicked