*Spoiler* The Emperor

[Jandi]

Her goal in the end was to try to destroy the Force, because it would leave everyone better off without an insubstantial meddler toying with everyone in the galaxy.

 

Oh dear.

 

If you actually pay attention to what she says, you'll realize that the whole "killing the force" was a lie, an ultimatum to test if the Exile had the conviction to kill his/her own Master. In fact, everything Kreia said and did was to prepare the Exile to go after Revan, to have the strenght to fight the real Empire without relying on crutches like friends or weapons, but to have the inner strenght to take on impossible odds without hesitation and without baggage and without compassion OR hate.

 

The fact that so many people never understood any of this, is why KOTOR 2 and Kreia are genius writing.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Jandi

[Darth_Wicked]

* snip *

 

The only issue with your theory is that both the Exile and Revan departed into the Unknown Regions to destroy... Kreia's "Love" -- as she calls it.

Said "Love" is the Sith Emperor.

Seriously, I believe you need to play TSL once again, seeing there's a plethora of stuff you got wrong.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Jandi]

The only issue with your theory is that both the Exile and Revan departed into the Unknown Regions to destroy... Kreia's "Love" -- as she calls it.

Said "Love" is the Sith Emperor.

Seriously, I believe you need to play TSL once again, seeing there's a plethora of stuff you got wrong.

 

The only place where it's referred to as "love" is SWTOR. A gane that ignores pretty much *everything* in KOTOR 2. A game where the Exile is portrayed as Drew version of her, which is a complete and utter bastardization of KOTOR 2.

 

It's rather hilariously obvious that BW cares absolutely nothing for KOTOR 2 because it isn't their game. I mean, the events of KOTOR 1 are visited over and over and over and over again but there is 0 mention of the apprentices of the Exile who... you know, RESTARTED the Jedi after almost every single Jedi from Revans time was *dead*.

 

Also, I don't have to play it, here, skip to 39 or watch it all.

 

And really, REALLY, consider if what she says make any sense if she was trying to kill the Force.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Jandi

[Kyrrant]

Oh dear.

 

If you actually pay attention to what she says, you'll realize that the whole "killing the force" was a lie, an ultimatum to test if the Exile had the conviction to kill his/her own Master. In fact, everything Kreia said and did was to prepare the Exile to go after Revan, to have the strenght to fight the real Empire without relying on crutches like friends or weapons, but to have the inner strenght to take on impossible odds without hesitation and without baggage and without compassion OR hate.

 

The fact that so many people never understood any of this, is why KOTOR 2 and Kreia are genius writing.

 

A few things to point out:

 

1: One of the big problems that I have with analyzing KOTOR 2's story is that the ending is... piecemeal. There's so many dangling and/or merged plot threads and odd decisions that were the result of the rushed development cycle that you run into the whole question of "Was this the original intention, or was this thrown together in order to create a somewhat shippable product, and how much should that matter?"

 

2: Yes, Kreia lies a lot. She willfully deceives and misleads people in order to get what she wants... but there has to be a purpose to the deception, and based on her teachings, on the vast bulk of everything she did in KOTOR 2, she was as much of a Sith as Jolee was a Jedi... hell, if not that, then less.

 

Her big thing is that she hates the Force, hates the Dark Side's pointless death and chaos, hates the Light Side's weakness and indecisiveness, hates the fools that try to become the embodiment of only one side, hates the idiots who act without thinking, hates the brutes that think that might makes right... and in the end, she hates the Force itself.

 

Her reaction to the Masters trying to cut the Exile off from the Force again shows that: They are too afraid of what this Forceless being represents to consider it shows that, just as her vicious tearing into of the Dark Side Exile shows that she has no patience for that kind of bloodlust.

 

Emperor Vitale, and his desire to kill everything in the galaxy to make himself more powerful, would be the antithesis of everything Kreia stood for throughout KOTOR 2. She's the subtle manipulator, the chessmaster, the master of making one small move that topples a world.

 

A brute whose idea of a small move is killing hundreds of thousands of people in a giant explosion is not exactly her type.

[AshlaBoga]

Re: The Sith Entity

 

Karpyshyn probably didn't review KOTOR 2 and the Sith Warrior storyline before suggesting 'yeah, certainly it could be her.' Writers are only human, and accidentally confirming a crazy theory happens. Until BW flat out says "Sith Entity = Kreia" I presume it's only a possibility, rather than confirmed.

[Jandi]

A few things to point out:

 

1: One of the big problems that I have with analyzing KOTOR 2's story is that the ending is... piecemeal. There's so many dangling and/or merged plot threads and odd decisions that were the result of the rushed development cycle that you run into the whole question of "Was this the original intention, or was this thrown together in order to create a somewhat shippable product, and how much should that matter?"

 

What is there to analyze? It's right there in the video I linked on the post you obviously never bothered to read. After you manage to defeat her, she comes Kreia again both in tone and demeanor. She even outright says that the galaxy needs it's betrayers. Her turning on you is the final test. SHE OUTRIGHT SAYS SO.

 

 

2: Yes, Kreia lies a lot. She willfully deceives and misleads people in order to get what she wants... but there has to be a purpose to the deception, and based on her teachings, on the vast bulk of everything she did in KOTOR 2, she was as much of a Sith as Jolee was a Jedi... hell, if not that, then less.

 

There is a purpose. To defeat the real threat to the galaxy, the Emperor. As she says.... again, after you defeat her and she drops the "Darth Traya" act.

 

Her big thing is that she hates the Force, hates the Dark Side's pointless death and chaos, hates the Light Side's weakness and indecisiveness, hates the fools that try to become the embodiment of only one side, hates the idiots who act without thinking, hates the brutes that think that might makes right... and in the end, she hates the Force itself.

 

Umm no, she thinks the Force becomes a crutch to those that use it. Again, the whole "killing the force" thing is an act that she drops once you pass your final test, and manage to defeat her. It's all right there in the video I posted if you would bother to watch.

 

Her reaction to the Masters trying to cut the Exile off from the Force again shows that: They are too afraid of what this Forceless being represents to consider it shows that, just as her vicious tearing into of the Dark Side Exile shows that she has no patience for that kind of bloodlust.

 

It's a betrayal either way, to drive you to hunt her to Malachor and defeat her where it all began. Again, she says so herself if you pay attention. The Jedi masters were blind because they still thgouth the Force had the answer to everything, that was what Kreia was against, relying on the Force as the answer.

 

Why would she tell you how to find the true Empire and why, if that wasn't her goal all along? There is no reason or motivation if she was trying to "kill the Force". It makes no sense AT ALL.

[Jandi]

Re: The Sith Entity

 

Karpyshyn probably didn't review KOTOR 2 and the Sith Warrior storyline before suggesting 'yeah, certainly it could be her.' Writers are only human, and accidentally confirming a crazy theory happens. Until BW flat out says "Sith Entity = Kreia" I presume it's only a possibility, rather than confirmed.

 

Karpyshyn himself admitted that he knew nothing about KOTOR 2 or the Exile when writing th Revan novel. People put far, far too much weight into the writers, as if what they say is gospel.

[DarthDymond]

I always figured that, from the beginning of plotting out the Sith Warrior story, they knew they wanted there to be a Sith Entity/Force Ghost of some type, serving the basically function that we ultimately see in the plot.

 

Then, at some point along the way as they were developing it, someone on the team probably said "Hey, a dead Sith who sees the future? That sounds like we could make it Kreia! That'd be a neat easter egg for fans of KotOR II." So they went with it while designing the look of the character and writing her Codex entry, but never really updated the dialogue to 'fit' better with Kreia's character.

 

It was a note like that which ended up seeing Lumiya brought back into the SW Universe in the Legacy of the Force novels - the authors started with an idea of an older Sith mentor for Caedus (just called "the wizard" as they were breaking the story), and as they were developing the idea Lucas Arts' Sue Rostoni suggested that they use the existing character Lumiya - which they ultimately went with (although in that case they obviously did more to actually integrate the existing character's personality into the plot).

[Jandi]

I always figured that, from the beginning of plotting out the Sith Warrior story, they knew they wanted there to be a Sith Entity/Force Ghost of some type, serving the basically function that we ultimately see in the plot.

 

Then, at some point along the way as they were developing it, someone on the team probably said "Hey, a dead Sith who sees the future? That sounds like we could make it Kreia! That'd be a neat easter egg for fans of KotOR II." So they went with it while designing the look of the character and writing her Codex entry, but never really updated the dialogue to 'fit' better with Kreia's character.

 

It was a note like that which ended up seeing Lumiya brought back into the SW Universe in the Legacy of the Force novels - the authors started with an idea of an older Sith mentor for Caedus (just called "the wizard" as they were breaking the story), and as they were developing the idea Lucas Arts' Sue Rostoni suggested that they use the existing character Lumiya - which they ultimately went with (although in that case they obviously did more to actually integrate the existing character's personality into the plot).

 

And those that approved it, probably only knew that Kreia was the end boss of KOTOR 2 without ever actually playing the game at all which further shows that people at BW care absolutely *nothing* for KOTOR 2 and treat it like fan fiction even though it's just as valid as a source of canon as KOTOR 1

Edited January 14, 2015 by Jandi

[Darth_Wicked]

* snip *

 

That is a possibility.

 

However, seeing that the Emperor -- either personally or through other means -- was able to subdue the likes of Mandalore the Ultimate, Revan and Malak, I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow managed to do the same with Kreia.

 

In the Foundry for example, Revan claims the Emperor "called to [him] from across the galaxy".

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[DarthDymond]

That is a possibility.

 

However, seeing that the Emperor -- either personally or through other means -- was able to subdue the likes of Mandalore the Ultimate, Revan and Malak, I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow managed to do the same with Kreia.

 

In the Foundry for example, Revan claims the Emperor "called to [him] from across the galaxy".

Yeah, I'd buy that as a plausible in-universe explanation, the Emperor's oft-used mental domination being twisted to 'love' in Kreia's case.

 

Not sure I buy it as the real-world explanation (Vowrawn describing her as "as old as the Force" etc, just seems to me more like a holdover from an earlier concept where it wasn't Kreia, rather than the writers just wanting Vowrawn to be incorrect), but creative 'fixes' are legitimately one of my favorite parts of the SW Universe.

[Darth_Wicked]

Yeah, I'd buy that as a plausible in-universe explanation, the Emperor's oft-used mental domination being twisted to 'love' in Kreia's case.

 

Not sure I buy it as the real-world explanation (Vowrawn describing her as "as old as the Force" etc, just seems to me more like a holdover from an earlier concept where it wasn't Kreia, rather than the writers just wanting Vowrawn to be incorrect), but creative 'fixes' are legitimately one of my favorite parts of the SW Universe.

 

I took note of that as well but then again, I always came to assume that was a rough estimate on Vowrawn's part, in addition to the writers playing around with other concepts mostly underutilized in SW.

 

Plus, as far as the rationalization part goes, I like to think the deal between Baras and Sel-Makor played a role somehow.

 

Even so, as I said, this is me trying to rationalize the whole affair. Your earlier possibility sounds far more likely to me.

 

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Rhyltran]

Apologies but no. Different words have different meanings after all.

 

For example: the act of resurrection is to bring someone back from the dead, to life; the act of reawaken is to awake someone or something once again -- from a slumber for example.

 

Taking into account everything we know from the Vanilla release, one of the words does cater perfectly, while the other does NOT. See below:

 

 

 

The last mail is from the time 2.7 was released; the SW receives it shortly AFTER the end of part one for Forged Alliances.

 

Ultimately, it is a matter of keeping it consistent. Take the examples below, from the Vanilla release:

 

 

 

One single word to be sure, but spread throughout two class stories, in addition to mails; that is a care and attention to detail I thoroughly enjoy and appreciate -- not to mention expect from a Bioware game.

 

That care and attention to detail is apparently fading away. I find that regrettable really.

 

That they kept the entire thing consistent throughout eight class stories, in addition to numerous quest chains, flashpoints and what not, was nothing short of amazing; that they can't do the same now, having only ONE single story for both factions to plow through, is frankly abysmal.

 

Listen to the Emperor's Dialogue after you defeat Revan. "I HAVE AWAKENED!" he states awakened. The only one who uses the word "Resurrection." is Marr.

[Darth_Wicked]

Listen to the Emperor's Dialogue after you defeat Revan. "I HAVE AWAKENED!" he states awakened. The only one who uses the word "Resurrection." is Marr.

 

It matters little what the Emperor says. That is not the point.

 

I am discussing what Darth Marr states and what he states pretty much CONTRADICTS what he's supposed to know, given he's a DC member literally for decades.

 

You are entitled to ignore what both the game and the expanded universe showed earlier -- going so far as to infer "resurrection" and "reawakening" mean the same.

 

I will not.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Kyrrant]

It matters little what the Emperor says. That is not the point.

 

I am discussing what Darth Marr states and what he states pretty much CONTRADICTS what he's supposed to know, given he's a DC member literally for decades.

 

You are entitled to ignore what both the game and the expanded universe showed earlier -- going so far as to infer "resurrection" and "reawakening" mean the same.

 

I will not.

 

I just figure its Marr trying to explain things for those around him. Of the eight classes, maybe two of them will really understand the difference between the two states (Consular and Inquisitor), and the soldiers and other non-Force Users might just be left scratching their heads.

 

So, Marr dumbing it down, sacrificing a bit of accuracy for clarity, is understandable for me. Might be a bit silly, but he's also a very military sort himself. He'd probably understand that, for briefing purposes, comprehension's job one, not neccessarily absolute accuracy.

[Darth_Wicked]

I just figure its Marr trying to explain things for those around him. Of the eight classes, maybe two of them will really understand the difference between the two states (Consular and Inquisitor), and the soldiers and other non-Force Users might just be left scratching their heads.

 

So, Marr dumbing it down, sacrificing a bit of accuracy for clarity, is understandable for me. Might be a bit silly, but he's also a very military sort himself. He'd probably understand that, for briefing purposes, comprehension's job one, not neccessarily absolute accuracy.

 

My revision here NOT only takes into account what came before, but is also clear enough.

 

It should be a no-brainer IMO.

 

Instead, they go for two words that literally wreak havoc to what came before it, needlessly one might add.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Rhyltran]

It matters little what the Emperor says. That is not the point.

 

I am discussing what Darth Marr states and what he states pretty much CONTRADICTS what he's supposed to know, given he's a DC member literally for decades.

 

You are entitled to ignore what both the game and the expanded universe showed earlier -- going so far as to infer "resurrection" and "reawakening" mean the same.

 

I will not.

 

What I am contesting is that you claimed the Jedi Guardian is the only story going forward. Except the Jedi Guardians perspective isn't that the Emperor was merely sleeping but he was indeed killed. Marr's wording implies he thought the same thing. The Emperor confirms what we were led to believe in the Sith Warrior story is true. The Emperor was merely in a "coma" of sorts and has now Awakened. I agree it's odd that we can't correct Marr but that's probably because the dialogue is re-hashed to fit in the perspective of multiple classes since they cut back funding on dialogue severely.

 

They also didn't wreak havoc with anything that came before it. The Emperor slumbering is still a fact. What was said before is still true. The emperor doesn't say "I have been reborn." or "I have been resurrected." but "I have awakened."

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Darth_Wicked]

What I am contesting is that you claimed the Jedi Guardian is the only story going forward.

 

That's because it is.

 

There is NOTHING in SoR that safeguards what players get to experience throughout chapter three. Instead, terms such as "resurrection" and "body" are thrown around, instead of the more apt "reawakened" or "vessel".

 

I would have no issue whatsoever if Satele used those terms, but Marr? Judging from what we've seen both in-game and in the expanded universe?

 

Again, inaccuracies galore.

 

Except the Jedi Guardians perspective isn't that the Emperor was merely sleeping but he was indeed killed.

 

Jedi Guardian is an advanced class for the Jedi Knight. The correct term you're looking for is the latter, NOT the former.

 

I sense a pattern here.

 

Marr's wording implies he thought the same thing.

 

Issue being, at that point, it makes little to no sense for him to think otherwise. He has access to a wealth of knowledge the Jedi Knight does not, starting with himself.

 

The Emperor confirms what we were led to believe in the Sith Warrior story is true. The Emperor was merely in a "coma" of sorts and has now Awakened.

 

You insist on something which is NOT what is being discussed.

 

I agree it's odd that we can't correct Marr but that's probably because the dialogue is re-hashed to fit in the perspective of multiple classes since they cut back funding on dialogue severely.

 

That's none of my business truth be told.

 

Again, the inconsistency is there and is glaring. As suggested earlier, you are free to either ignore it or redefine the meaning of a few words.

 

I shan't do that. Nor I should -- I think.

 

Different words have different meanings after all, just like the relevance and worth of backstories. If I am supposed to ditch all that, then I guess it's time to stop lending any credibility whatsoever, from a storytelling perspective, as far as any sense of continuity is concerned.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Rhyltran]

That's because it is.

 

There is NOTHING in SoR that safeguards what players get to experience throughout chapter three. Instead, terms such as "resurrection" and "body" are thrown around, instead of the more apt "reawakened" or "vessel".

 

I would have no issue whatsoever if Satele used those terms, but Marr? Judging from what we've seen both in-game and in the expanded universe?

 

Again, inaccuracies galore.

 

 

 

Jedi Guardian is an advanced class for the Jedi Knight. The correct term you're looking for is the latter, NOT the former.

 

I sense a pattern here.

 

 

 

Issue being, at that point, it makes little to no sense for him to think otherwise. He has access to a wealth of knowledge the Jedi Knight does not, starting with himself.

 

 

 

You insist on something which is NOT what is being discussed.

 

 

 

That's none of my business truth be told.

 

Again, the inconsistency is there and is glaring. As suggested earlier, you are free to either ignore it or redefine the meaning of a few words.

 

I shan't do that. Nor I should -- I think.

 

Different words have different meanings after all, just like the relevance and worth of backstories. If I am supposed to ditch all that, then I guess it's time to stop lending any credibility whatsoever, from a storytelling perspective, as far as any sense of continuity is concerned.

 

How is the Jedi Guardian story is what's going forward? I completely disproved that. From the Jedi Guardian's perspective the Emperor was killed. He killed the Emperor. The Emperor claims he has re-awakened. He didn't use the word resurrected. He never died. The Jedi Guardian is wrong. Why does Marr have to be right? He wasn't an Emperor Hand nor was he the wrath. The only one with inside knowledge of whether or not the Emperor was dead is the Sith Warrior and what we were told turned out be true. That he wasn't. If someone played Jedi Guardian and only Jedi Guardian without visiting the forums they'd probably be surprised by the fact that the Emperor never died.

 

I'd also point out. Vessel, Body, resurrected, awakened. Semantics.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Darth_Wicked]

How is the Jedi Guardian story is what's going forward? I completely disproved that. From the Jedi Guardian's perspective the Emperor was killed. He killed the Emperor. The Emperor claims he has re-awakened. He didn't use the word resurrected. He never died. The Jedi Guardian is wrong. Why does Marr have to be right? He wasn't an Emperor Hand nor was he the wrath. The only one with inside knowledge of whether or not the Emperor was dead is the Sith Warrior and what we were told turned out be true. That he wasn't. If someone played Jedi Guardian and only Jedi Guardian without visiting the forums they'd probably be surprised by the fact that the Emperor never died.

 

Do you even read what I type?

 

Here goes once again:

It matters little what the Emperor says. That is not the point.

 

I am discussing what Darth Marr states and what he states pretty much CONTRADICTS what he's supposed to know, given he's a DC member literally for decades.

 

You are entitled to ignore what both the game and the expanded universe showed earlier -- going so far as to infer "resurrection" and "reawakening" mean the same.

 

I will not.

That's because it is.

 

There is NOTHING in SoR that safeguards what players get to experience throughout chapter three. Instead, terms such as "resurrection" and "body" are thrown around, instead of the more apt "reawakened" or "vessel".

 

I would have no issue whatsoever if Satele used those terms, but Marr? Judging from what we've seen both in-game and in the expanded universe?

 

Again, inaccuracies galore.

I get the feeling you're just jabbering for the sake of jabbering, paying little to no attention whatsoever to what I type. This, in addition to the fact you inferred "resurrection" and "reawakening" are supposed to mean the same.

 

Also, the correct term is "Jedi Knight", not "Jedi Guardian". The latter is an advanced class, not the class itself.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Rhyltran]

Do you even read what I type?

 

Here goes once again:

 

I get the feeling you're just jabbering for the sake of jabbering, paying little to no attention whatsoever to what I type. This, in addition to the fact you inferred "resurrection" and "reawakening" are supposed to mean the same.

 

Also, the correct term is "Jedi Knight", not "Jedi Guardian". The latter is an advanced class, not the class itself.

 

Sith Warrior story reveals the Emperor is not really dead. That he slumbers and is in a coma of sorts.

 

The Jedi Knight's perspective is that the Emperor has died as he killed his true body.

 

You claim the Jedi Knight is the story that's going forward because Marr may or may not know that the Emperor is dead. Leaning on believing that he's dead.

 

My argument is that the Sith Warrior had it correct in that the Emperor never died. So how is the Jedi Knight the story going forward when what is revealed in the Sith Warrior story is accurate and what the Jedi knight believed was wrong? Why does Marr have to be right? On top of that in this case resurrect, awakened, etc comes down to semantics. In the end it has the same effect even if it doesn't literally mean the same thing. From a certain point of view Marr is right.

 

It's also possible if Marr does know the truth but doesn't want everyone else to know the exact state or condition the Emperor is in. There's also the problem that they didn't want to write different lines of dialogue due to their cut budget. So if Marr doesn't want everyone else to know of the Emperor's state the dialogue has to reflect what is generally believed regardless of the class you're currently playing.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Darth_Wicked]

Sith Warrior story reveals the Emperor is not really dead. That he slumbers and is in a coma of sorts.

 

The Jedi Knight's perspective is that the Emperor has died as he killed his true body.

 

You claim the Jedi Knight is the story that's going forward because Marr may or may not know that the Emperor is dead. Leaning on believing that he's dead.

 

I claim that SoR takes SOLELY into account the events of the Jedi Knight story, paying little to no attention whatsoever to what came to transpire during chapter three for the Sith Warrior.

 

That makes the latter story pretty much IRRELEVANT.

 

This is apparent from the moment the truce kicks in, and Marr explains to everyone the Emperor's -- supposed -- current state. In addition, it oversimplifies the Emperor's abilities and understates the importance of his Voice, not to say it negates it altogether.

 

My argument is that the Sith Warrior had it correct in that the Emperor never died.

 

I don't remember the Sith Warrior correcting Marr in SoR. Do you?

 

In fact, I was unable to contradict him altogether on that front, unlike what happened in RotHC. Then again, different Lead Writer.

 

So how is the Jedi Knight the story going forward when what is revealed in the Sith Warrior story is accurate and what the Jedi knight believed was wrong?

 

I already answered that. If only you took the time to read what I type, but alas, you seem NOT to be interested.

 

Why does Marr have to be right?

 

The writing for Marr doesn't have to be right or wrong, but rather consistent. Employing terms such as "resurrection" and "body" is incorrect.

 

"Reawakening" and "vessel" alas, are FAR MORE appropriate, and no, "resurrection" and "reawakening" are NOT the same.

 

On top of that in this case resurrect, awakened, etc comes down to semantics.

 

And yet again, you only prove you have no desire or intention whatsoever to read what other people type:

Apologies but no. Different words have different meanings after all.

 

For example: the act of resurrection is to bring someone back from the dead, to life; the act of reawaken is to awake someone or something once again -- from a slumber for example.

 

Again, you are truly jabbering for the sake of jabbering.

 

In the end it has the same effect even if it doesn't literally mean the same thing. From a certain point of view Marr is right.

 

Will say it again, despite the fact I'm fully aware it will fall on deaf ears: you are entitled to feel that way, but alas, different words have different meanings for a reason, NOT just for the sake of convenience.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Rhyltran]

I claim that SoR takes SOLELY into account the events of the Jedi Knight story, paying little to no attention whatsoever to what came to transpire during chapter three for the Sith Warrior.

 

That makes the latter story pretty much IRRELEVANT.

 

This is apparent from the moment the truce kicks in, and Marr explains to everyone the Emperor's -- supposed -- current state. In addition, it oversimplifies the Emperor's abilities and understates the importance of his Voice, not to say it negates it altogether.

 

 

 

I don't remember the Sith Warrior correcting Marr in SoR. Do you?

 

In fact, I was unable to contradict him altogether on that front, unlike what happened in RotHC. Then again, different Lead Writer.

 

 

 

I already answered that. If only you took the time to read what I type, but alas, you seem NOT to be interested.

 

 

 

The writing for Marr doesn't have to be right or wrong, but rather consistent. Employing terms such as "resurrection" and "body" is incorrect.

 

"Reawakening" and "vessel" alas, are FAR MORE appropriate, and no, they do NOT mean the same as the other two.

 

 

 

And yet again, you only prove you have no desire or intention whatsoever to read what other people type:

 

 

Again, you are truly jabbering for the sake of jabbering.

 

 

 

Will say it again, despite the fact I'm fully aware it will fall on deaf ears: you are entitled to feel that way, but alas, different words have different meanings for a reason, NOT just for the sake of convenience.

 

I'm aware different words have different meanings but despite the different meanings it boils down to the same effect. Which is the very definition of arguing semantics. Since you're so keen on being rude or claiming that I don't listen I'll help you out here..

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Semantics?s=t

 

You claim that Marr doesn't have to be right but consistent. This makes very little sense. If he's not right then of course he would use the wrong terminology. That's the only thing that makes any kind of sense. Why should your character correct him? What does the state of the Emperor matter? Everyone believed by stopping Revan they would stop the Emperor's resurrection/reawakening. So in the end it doesn't matter. There's also the fact that Marr may not have wanted people to know the literal state the Emperor was in. They also didn't want to write multiple different dialogue (correcting Marr would do just that. The lines you can use here are the same lines every class can use.)

 

The Jedi Knight portion isn't the one going forward. Are you even listening to me now? You've been proven wrong here and it might be prudent to admit to this fact instead of running in circles trying to save face. The emperor used the words "awakening" and in Sith Warrior story we learn the Emperor isn't really dead. The republic side of things, namely from the Jedi Knight, declared the Emperor Dead and even most of the Empire believed this to be so.

 

The only story that revealed it wasn't the case was the Sith Warrior's which turned out to be absolutely correct. The Emperor didn't really die. This is the most important facet of the expansion. If they truly used the Jedi story here on out the Emperor would be dead. We know this isn't the case. Failing to understand me doesn't mean I'm jabbering for the sake of jabbering it only shows your inability to understand me. You're so fixated on semantics that I am puzzled why you find it a big deal. Why does the story break for you just because the Sith Warrior chooses not to correct Marr?

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rhyltran

[DarthDymond]

Food for thought: the Emperor wasn't actually sleeping and more than he was actually dead. Whether you use the word "awaken" or "resurrect" in both cases the term is being used metaphorically/evocatively rather than literally.

 

And just because Marr knows that the Emperor is able to body-surf doesn't mean that he knows that the Emperor can survive having a host body killed - let alone survive having it happen twice in relatively rapid succession. The fact is the Knight's actions did harm the Emperor enough to throw him into his 'that is not dead which can eternal lie'' state, I see no contradiction with Marr believing that the trauma could have done just a hair more damage and actually killed him.

 

Marr says as much at the end of RotHC: he relays the Republic's report that the Emperor is dead and the Warrior can say "no, he's still alive" to which Marr basically shrugs the whole thing off - Marr clearly and consistently believes even then that the Emperor is 'dead enough' for all intents and purposes to consider him such. And in that case "resurrect" is every bit as good a metaphorical term to use as "awaken" - especially because the Emperor's condition is unique enough that there is no proper or literal term.

[Rhyltran]

Food for thought: the Emperor wasn't actually sleeping and more than he was actually dead. Whether you use the word "awaken" or "resurrect" in both cases the term is being used metaphorically/evocatively rather than literally.

 

And just because Marr knows that the Emperor is able to body-surf doesn't mean that he knows that the Emperor can survive having a host body killed - let alone survive having it happen twice in relatively rapid succession. The fact is the Knight's actions did harm the Emperor enough to throw him into his 'that is not dead which can eternal lie'' state, I see no contradiction with Marr believing that the trauma could have done just a hair more damage and actually killed him.

 

Marr says as much at the end of RotHC: he relays the Republic's report that the Emperor is dead and the Warrior can say "no, he's still alive" to which Marr basically shrugs the whole thing off - Marr clearly and consistently believes even then that the Emperor is 'dead enough' for all intents and purposes to consider him such. And in that case "resurrect" is every bit as good a metaphorical term to use as "awaken" - especially because the Emperor's condition is unique enough that there is no proper or literal term.

 

Which brings up the point why bother correcting him a second time and would anyone believe you? If they won't then why say anything at all? By the way I'm not disagreeing with you. I am agreeing with you completely. You pretty much said the same thing I've been stating. This entire thread is a debate over semantics.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rhyltran