regarding punishment for exploit

[MorgenBlue]

You do realize that most people will be quitting the game if they have to do that?

 

Permanent character bans are not a solution for this problem.

 

If you want people to quit then just go ahead and ban the entire account. Most people do not have the want or drive to start an entirely new character without all their perks, CC cosmetic stuff unlocked, and money/gear they have been collecting over the course of a few years. Not to mention there are people using this supposed 'exploit' who have dumped thousands of dollars into this game to get cosmetic items for a single character unlocked.

 

Has nobody stopped to think that if everybody who used this gets banned, this will be huge news to the gaming community?

 

Most people who are a part of a social gaming community will likely hear about this, and it will discourage new players from a game that just banned half of its subscribers for taking advantage of something that EAware left in the game.

 

If you white knights who seriously think any solutions like this can be done without consequence to yourselves, think again.

 

I agree perma bans aren't the solution for the majority of exploiter, those selling it and transferring it between servers though maybe. One week ban + removal of exploited gains for everyone else that exploited it is enough.

Most won't unsub over that, Bioware will of shown the masses that exploiting is unacceptable and the next time an exploit crops up most won't take part in it because people won't want to lose their account.

 

But if Bioware do nothing and let exploiters keep their gear then it's pretty much a free pass to exploit and then I'm out and so will many other players who don't believe in cheating.

 

No one likes cheaters, any other MMO this wouldn't even be a discussion. If Bioware ban people en mass for it then most people will praise Bioware for taking a stance against cheaters and not just accepting it the money.

Edited January 11, 2015 by MorgenBlue

[WillCaedes]

/snip

 

The rest of all these draconian demand statements in this thread are completely over the top. The level of barbarism in thinking by some in this thread is very telling. Thank the maker that Bioware decides when/how/how-severe any actions to accounts are, and NOT the players.

 

Yes, thank you. That is exactly what I was trying to get across in a slightly crude manner about 3-4 pages earlier in this thread.

 

Again, lack of moderation on Bioware's part is absolutely astounding.

[Draqsko]

And you deserve to be left all alone on your server with nobody else to play with and all the stuff you bought will vanish with the servers that close down.

 

The part that really bothers me, I've been a voice of moderation in this thread. Yes there needs to be a punishment, remove the illgotten gains, banhammer on those that sold and spread the exploit across servers, but those are more than sufficient for Bioware to make its point.

 

Come on people, it's time to own up to what you did was wrong and you knew it was wrong when you did it. The bigger problem is, you all got caught doing it and yet, you still won't own up to it. Everyone is still trying to push off blame to someone or something else.

 

Was the expansion bad? Yeah, but it still doesn't excuse those who participated in this exploit. Man up and take responsibility for your misdeeds rather than blaming others for your lack of moral values.

 

^ This.

 

I agree perma bans aren't the solution for the majority of exploiter, those selling it and transferring it between servers though maybe. One week ban + removal of exploited gains for everyone else that exploited it is enough.

Most won't unsub over that, Bioware will of shown the masses that exploiting is unacceptable and the next time an exploit crops up most won't take part in it because people won't want to lose their account.

 

But if Bioware do nothing and let exploiters keep their gear then it's pretty much a free pass to exploit and then I'm out and so will many other players who don't believe in cheating.

 

I think it should be even finer grained than that.

 

Exploited SM only : Remove the gear, infraction against account but no ban.

Exploited HM : Remove gear, 1 week ban and infraction.

Sold exploit on original server : 1 month ban

Transfer and sold exploit on another server : Perma-ban

 

These are the only logical punishments, anyone calling for more is going overboard. Ayone saying there shouldn't be any at all is going the complete opposite direction and is equally wrong, because there needs to be some punishment or this game will get the reputation as a haven for hackers and exploiters.

 

Yes, thank you. That is exactly what I was trying to get across in a slightly crude manner about 3-4 pages earlier in this thread.

 

Again, lack of moderation on Bioware's part is absolutely astounding.

 

It's entirely intentional, they are letting this thread go unmoderated so people can vent their anger somewhere. If they moderated it, it would just constantly pop up as a new thread, or pop up in other threads and create more of a moderation headache. I've been a forum moderator before, when there's a hot topic like this people will be speaking their mind, one way or another, it's easier for everyone involved to contain it in one thread.

 

And after Tuesday, the cleanup will be easier. Mostly just one thread to lock/delete.

[grombrinda]

Indeed, same here. Going to TESO where the community seems much much better and gear doesn't matter.

 

Umm same thing happened on TESO when someone shared the dupe bug on a Twitch stream,,and TESO would not roll the server back one day after having found out about it.

[grombrinda]

You had a bad day dealing with lag. Many people did. How does that make cheating acceptable?

 

There is *NO* justification for cheating.

 

NONE.

 

There is also nothing they have gained by using this exploit that puts them ahead of you in pvp..maybe pve but sh%%$y stats are just that all around from new gear. Maybe the achievement mount .but meh...II still heal just as well using comm gear.

 

So yeah I don't feel intimidated by the exploiters...!! Or their gear that I will probably catch up to within the month.

[Sangiban]

119 pages of speculation, conjecture, and mob rage. A stellar example of the forums to be sure. I'm still greatly enjoying the entertainment value of this thread, though I've had to change my subscription from instant to daily

[Max_Killjoy]

Maybe they could devote more time to fixing the lag if they didn't have to chase down you thieving bastards.

 

More of this fanatical "if you're not out for the blood of cheaters, you must be one of them" nonsense? Salem called, they want their witch-hunt back.

 

Your sort of response is part of why I care less and less if this is even fixed, let alone if anyone ever "pays" for it, the more I read these threads.

 

 

if the devs can positively guarantee that they have the categories right(exploiter/non). if they get just 1 wrong.....kabluey

 

"Making the cheaters pay" is not worth ONE SINGLE innocent player caught up in the dragnet. Blackstone was being conservative.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[jubakumbi]

119 pages of speculation, conjecture, and mob rage. A stellar example of the forums to be sure.

 

All this energy over coding mistakes and some virtual items in an MMO.

Can't say I am surprised, really, but it is fascinating to watch.

Much like sport fandom, I find it terribly interesting to observe the level of personal, emotional investment that some people will pour into a video game past time, specifically when they hate they cannot control the outcome of a mistake.

 

Add in the human zest for revenge, a dash of Internet anonymity, a side of gamer rage and we have a recipe for big bowl of drama llama.

 

Humans are odd creatures.

[annabethchase]

You had a bad day dealing with lag. Many people did. How does that make cheating acceptable?

 

There is *NO* justification for cheating.

 

NONE.

 

Not everything is cheating though. With no definition of cheating in place, it's very difficult to define. Some people did in fact clear the ops but died on the last boss which their group cleared. Did they cheat by "walking into" the instance after it was over? Did someone cheat who was invited to a group only for the last boss kill? They will have only the 1 achievement but earned it. Then gear can obviously be cobbled together from many alts so just good gear is also not cheating. yet all these things would be bannable under many of the suggested punishments here.

 

Secondly, how is this cheating on a worse scale than the 5 minute rishi chests the first week where there were 4 chests within walking distance. It was 100k worth of stuff per 5 minutes with no risk. That seems like the exact same issue as this but on a repeatable scale that result in much more enrichment to the people who used this for hours. I didn't because I found this to be questionable but we still don't know. They changed the timer but never said if it was or wasn't wrong. We just don't know the definition.

[annabethchase]

119 pages of speculation, conjecture, and mob rage. A stellar example of the forums to be sure. I'm still greatly enjoying the entertainment value of this thread, though I've had to change my subscription from instant to daily

 

Much anger I sense in them. I cannot teach them.

[Theeko]

Not everything is cheating though. With no definition of cheating in place, it's very difficult to define. Some people did in fact clear the ops but died on the last boss which their group cleared. Did they cheat by "walking into" the instance after it was over? Did someone cheat who was invited to a group only for the last boss kill? They will have only the 1 achievement but earned it. Then gear can obviously be cobbled together from many alts so just good gear is also not cheating. yet all these things would be bannable under many of the suggested punishments here.

 

Secondly, how is this cheating on a worse scale than the 5 minute rishi chests the first week where there were 4 chests within walking distance. It was 100k worth of stuff per 5 minutes with no risk. That seems like the exact same issue as this but on a repeatable scale that result in much more enrichment to the people who used this for hours. I didn't because I found this to be questionable but we still don't know. They changed the timer but never said if it was or wasn't wrong. We just don't know the definition.

 

They cheated because they simply knew it was an exploit, and took advantage of it. I got locked out of a raid one time before defeating the main boss on DP, I was outside cause i got booted out somehow while the last boss was down and I did not get credit for it, but also locked me out for the week on that toon. So yes I would say it was an exploit if they could keep rejoining the same Ops within the same week on the same toon just to loot a dead body they forgot to loot.

[HettonVir]

"thieving bastards"

 

Who did they steal from? You? The "exploit" gives no advantage over another PLAYER entity other than to maybe bruise your e-peen ego of "We got it and you dont!". Meh. Whatever.

[Theeko]

"thieving bastards"

 

Who did they steal from? You? The "exploit" gives no advantage over another PLAYER entity other than to maybe bruise your e-peen ego of "We got it and you dont!". Meh. Whatever.

 

It took advantage over the crafting market that's for sure.

[annabethchase]

They cheated because they simply knew it was an exploit, and took advantage of it. I got locked out of a raid one time before defeating the main boss on DP, I was outside cause i got booted out somehow while the last boss was down and I did not get credit for it, but also locked me out for the week on that toon. So yes I would say it was an exploit if they could keep rejoining the same Ops within the same week on the same toon just to loot a dead body they forgot to loot.

 

See, I don't even know what you are talking about. As this is not explained in detail anywhere, you and I have a very different understanding of what the exploit is. And that's my point, we all don't even know what we are arguing about.

[Edzew]

You do realize that most people will be quitting the game if they have to do that?

 

Permanent character bans are not a solution for this problem. .

 

If you want people to quit then just go ahead and ban the entire account. Most people do not have the want or drive to start an entirely new character without all their perks, CC cosmetic stuff unlocked, and money/gear they have been collecting over the course of a few years. Not to mention there are people using this supposed 'exploit' who have dumped thousands of dollars into this game to get cosmetic items for a single character unlocked.

 

Has nobody stopped to think that if everybody who used this gets banned, this will be huge news to the gaming community?

 

Most people who are a part of a social gaming community will likely hear about this, and it will discourage new players from a game that just banned half of its subscribers for taking advantage of something that EAware left in the game.

 

If you white knights who seriously think any solutions like this can be done without consequence to yourselves, think again.

 

you are right character bans is not the answer... complete account ban/deletion IS the answer!

 

who cares if its big news?? it will show that you cant cheat and get away with it no matter how much you spend in game!

 

again people broke the rules why is it a bad thing if they get punished?? what kind of image would it send to these gaming groups and social groups if they do nothing??

 

the exploiters knew they were breaking the rules and they knew if you break the rules and get caught there will be consequences. It is now time for them to pay those consequences.

[Edzew]

Not cheating, exploiting a game feature. If the developers were up to snuff, there would be no exploits. If I or anyone hacked this game, I would expect and deserve punishment.

 

P.S. This is not a bad day, try a bad few weeks. I get 59 MBS download and 39 MBS upload on speed test. The developers screwed up. If an armored truck crashed, and money went flying, I would pick up as much as I could...and I would keep it all. I dare bioware to ban me; Star Citizen is looking quite good. And no, I have not participated in this “recent” exploit. It’s my fifteen dollars and I will exploit if I want to, that’s if I want…I have not YET. Darn it, the PS is longer than the response. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

yea but if you were videotaped picking up that money and keeping it you would be arrested. soooo

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I see the pitchfork nerds are still going at it. Poor mother ******

[annabethchase]

yea but if you were videotaped picking up that money and keeping it you would be arrested. soooo

 

Well if you were standing in front of a brinks truck that was overturned, you could be said to have constructive knowledge that the money should be returned to the truck's owner. But if you were walking in say a park and a few loose bills were spotted, how would you know who to return it to?

[HettonVir]

It took advantage over the crafting market that's for sure.

 

And as I said earlier, if you made a profit from it in any way, you should be punished. If you charged for the lockout or sold mats or grossly underpriced gear (which in all honesty, how can you put a market value on imaginary items? People will sell it for what they wish. Stamping your feet and screaming that someone is undercutting you is kind of silly. People can sell it for whatever they like but I see your point.) on the GTN then there should be a punishment up to and including a permanent ban if you are a repeat offender. But the guy that did it once and has never had an issue in the past? A short term suspension is more than appropriate.

Edited January 11, 2015 by HettonVir

[howieloader]

Wow... Can't believe this is still going... Neckbearding white knights gonna white knight, I guess...

[ivanhedgehog]

It took advantage over the crafting market that's for sure.

 

the crafting market is a non starter. it is unbalanced and the exploit actually opened it up to greater participation which is a good thing. more competition is a healthy change to the market.

[ivanhedgehog]

you are right character bans is not the answer... complete account ban/deletion IS the answer!

 

who cares if its big news?? it will show that you cant cheat and get away with it no matter how much you spend in game!

 

again people broke the rules why is it a bad thing if they get punished?? what kind of image would it send to these gaming groups and social groups if they do nothing??

 

the exploiters knew they were breaking the rules and they knew if you break the rules and get caught there will be consequences. It is now time for them to pay those consequences.

 

and when the devs are unemployed they can thank you for helping them make a statement. and it will be their turn to pay consequences.

[Max_Killjoy]

the crafting market is a non starter. it is unbalanced and the exploit actually opened it up to greater participation which is a good thing. more competition is a healthy change to the market.

 

It's hard to care much about supposed "damage" to people using contrived rareness to charge ridiculous prices.

[ROGERMNF]

Ok, as someone who have used the exploit let me say some things about it. In general terms I agree with the general rule about payers must submit any bug or exploit or something like that, ok. For the other side SWTOR is not free of buggs at all, most of times not exactly for the benefit of players (high lag in some areas, tactical FP, PvP, or some operation bosses still bugged for years), this usually is translated in a big loose of game money (which is not really important), but a feel of loosing time and big frustration (wich I think it's more important). This time the exploit is massively known and used by players, and yes... We have done a good profit with that.

 

I know and assume that this is against general rules, but to be fair (and what's fair and what's not depends on personal view). My opinion is that there's a problem bigger than the players behaviour with a particular bugg. I have the feeling that Bioware/EA is giving us an unfinished product (in particular with the expansion 3.0). Most of this things may be avoided with a serius pre-test after open the expansion, so I think it's not fair to punish players with a severe measures for something that, at least BW/EA have a part of responsability. I have read some thinks like ban for 3 months or so, seriously? I don't think any ban can be reasonable, and if this is the case can be a big number of players who left the game and go to other MMOs. For my part I really like SWTOR, but there's some other MMOs that I like even more, I'm still in SWTOR more for friends than for the game itself, and because is the first MMO i played (almost from the beguining).

 

Finally... There's a thing that I can't undestand. It seems like this bugg is known from one month ago or so (I knew about it from two weeks). Why they havn't done anything yet? Solving it is that hard?

[EzraFett]

Hey everyone look! You can tell which people took advantage of the exploit!

 

Really, there needs to be appropriate punishment. Also, I doubt it is 70% of the player base. Or whatever high number some have been saying here. Of course I think the people posting here that it would be a game killer are the people that exploited repeatedly and are afraid of being banned. Good. I am glad you are afraid. You should be. You knew you were breaking the rules. Maybe you have used exploits in the past and nothing happened. See that is where this goes. If people exploit, and then are not punished, then when the next exploit surfaces they will take advantage of it, because why not? They have exploited before and nothing happened.

 

Some have mentioned that if the devs swing the ban hammer the news would spread around the gaming world. I would hope so, the like minded non cheaters would flock to a game where exploiters are punished.

 

I am crossing my fingers for some long bans, even some perma bans, or even some creative not yet thought of punishment that will make the exploiters cry themselves to sleep.

 

Rules have no meaning whatsoever if there is no personal consequence for breaking the rules. If you decided to speed all of the time, and when you got pulled over the cop just told you that you shouldn't do that (never gave you a ticket), then you would just continue to speed. Same thing with shoplifting, no punishment, no problem, keep shoplifting. That is what this exploit sounds like, shoplifting. Stealing something you didn't "pay" for by actually being in the op group that killed the boss.