Sathid Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 All the debating here on this is silly at this point,BW i am sure will do something and try and be even handed,sadly we have a playerbase in this game that thinks cheating is a ok,my friends over at EQ2 warned me about WOW players and everything they said has been true ever since i came. Personally i would have all these people either banned or stripped of everything including all credits etc,but they can keep their toons that they invested time in,BUT! if they ever get caught again they have been flagged due to this incident and will be perma banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Please pay more attention. Sorry...I don't pay attention to avid carebearing, and frankly, never will. *shrugs* BTW...from a PvP point of view, a 3-week response to an issue is VERY immediate. We are used to BW taking months and years to fix things, if ever. Like I said. The Bolster bugs were there and reported on the PTS. Carry on. Edited January 9, 2015 by DarthOvertone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Fair enough. it was intended as an addendum, not a contradiction. Unfortunately I worded it improperly to make it appear as if it was a counter to your point. I was under the impression that you indicated doing nothing would send a clear message, that it would be ok to exploit in the future....did you not make that contention? If not, I digress. I said "in the minds of the small minded (as in, those that take things as they want to take them) and the angry (those that are upset and will use any excuse)." To these types of people, it would mean that, in their minds. You can see it in this very thread with people saying "So it's ok to exploit now I guess". That is exactly what some will think, regardless of what BioWare intends. Edited January 9, 2015 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Sorry...I don't pay attention ... and frankly, never will. Well, just remember it's your rep at stake when you post rants grounded in completely incorrect facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) We're talking about sub money Doesn't give a right to exploit game mechanics. Do you remember massive bot banning from EVE few year ago? Remember, that is one of the few remaining sub-only MMOs in the market. Edited January 9, 2015 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Do you remember massive bot banning from EVE few year ago? Remember that is one of the few remaining sub-only MMOs in the market. BW isn't going to ban anyone, especially for something as lame as this exploit. You people are fooling yourselves to think otherwise. BW is the prototypical dog with no bite, particularly when it comes to Subs which they desperately need at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyVix Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 This is NOT that serious of an offense. We are not talking about players that are stealing guild banks dry, or exploiting speed hacks, or even players that are trying to rip other players off in some way...we are talking about players that are "gaming" the system. This COULD hurt the economy in some way at some point. But for right now it likely is having little to no impact on the current game, other than folks getting things for little to no effort that usually takes quite a bit of work. That is wrong of course, unfair to those that work for it, but hardly game breaking. It is obviously wrong to do, and Bioware will decide what the best course of action will be. But in the long run folks are really foaming at the mouth over something that just doesn't deserve that much fervor IMO. Sorry Artie, though I often agree with your posts, I really disagree with you on the severity of this exploit. Why do games have different gear tiers? Gear progression exists in every MMO I've ever played and serves to not only gate progression but to motivate people to keep playing. If there's no gear for people to work toward acquiring, they quickly become "bored" and leave. Alternately, they'll spam forums about "lack of content," giving the game a bad name and hurting new player recruitment. What exploiters have done is effectively eliminate one of the core parts of MMOs, since players no longer needed to work for their gear, they simply had to "game the system" as you put it. There is no progression raiding in a system where progression is thrown out the window. Is that really what SWTOR is about? Beyond that, despite Bioware's apalling track record in dealing with exploiters and cheats, the time has come to address the exploiting problem and clearly state that cheating/exploiting will NOT be tolerated. People did this because as many people in this thread have posted, "Bioware won't do anything." Once people are punished, the next time an exploit arises people will be much less likely to participate. Content costs money and man hours. How many man hours were wasted putting together this expansion, only to have it discarded by a handful of unscrupulous individuals? How many man hours will be wasted by having to track the individuals responsible? How much will it cost to develop replacement content? How many "bored" players will leave because they discarded the progression portion of "progression raiding?" There are real costs involved, and I'm pretty sure that the total will far exceed the $15 per month lost by making a decisive statement and banning the cheaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) BW isn't going to ban anyone, especially for something as lame as this exploit. You people are fooling yourselves to think otherwise. BW is the prototypical dog with no bite, particularly when it comes to Subs which they desperately need at this point. Actually given the last update we had on profitability of MMO's .. I think now is the time for EA/BW to strike. They don't need subs as badly as some other games... i definitely wouldn't characterize the need as "desperate". Do they want more... sure they do.. I am also not saying there shouldn't be a threshold, and a scaling level of punishment... there should be... but there needs to be something... up to and including permabans for the heaviest of offenders and those who sold access to the exploit. I think, personally, that this "they'll lose so much money, they can't possibly do anything" is BS. If it meant getting rid of that type of person... I'd take the loss. Edit: Interesting article from Forbes . While the numbers are from 2013... 2014 the game continued to grow in players... I look forward to the 2014 numbers. Edited January 9, 2015 by Drockter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hachibushu Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 /Bar fights are kind of interesting to observe though.. right? This isn't a bar fight... it's a knife fight in an elevator. ...bloody, brutal, and no one really wins. But it definitely has entertainment value... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Funny thing,the majority of these exploiters will be the people on the forum in a month posting that they have nothing to do,they took the easy road and then will drag ALL of the players with them. I didnt sign up for that. Edited January 9, 2015 by Sathid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiredgutter Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't really care about this exploit or the morality of cheating in video games, I'm just worried about losing friends because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't really care about this exploit or the morality of cheating in video games, I'm just worried about losing friends because of this. I can understand that,but what about all the people affected by your friends? is that fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't really care about this exploit or the morality of cheating in video games, I'm just worried about losing friends because of this. Sorry, but that is no reason to "look the other way". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hachibushu Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I can understand that,but what about all the people affected by your friends? is that fair? A fair is a place you go to ride rides. Life isn't fair, and no matter how they handle it, some will term it unfair. The company sort it how they will... we just have to let it go... ... or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 LOL Ban everyone! Put that final nail in SWTORs coffin! Nobody will be left to support the game and when it goes offline, all of your fluffy Cartel pixels you spend hundreds or thousands of real dollars on will disappear with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Game is not ... not even close... and would be better off without that type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriegheld Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 A simple suggestion for something that could be done in addition to whatever suspensions/bans are incoming due to the exploit addressed earlier today by the devs. Give something fun and exclusive to players who have not used the exploit. A color crystal or a mount, I don't know what specifically and it doesn't matter too much really. The point is to positively reinforce people who chose not to exploit. Give them something special that anyone who exploited cannot get. They are giving you something. An even playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Why do games have different gear tiers? To keep the players who are fixated by the grind-for-gear-to-grind-for-gear-to-grind cycle interested in the game. If a player isn't self-aware enough to realize that this cycle is what makes the game entertaining, and short-circuits it by using a bug to get better gear faster, that's not my problem. Edited January 9, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 LOL Ban everyone! Put that final nail in SWTORs coffin! Nobody will be left to support the game and when it goes offline, all of your fluffy Cartel pixels you spend hundreds or thousands of real dollars on will disappear with it! I doubt they ban all the offenders,hope they are creative in doing the justified punishment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzenaattori Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 While we're on this subject could I make a request. Bioware: Please stop making Operation bosses death animation so god damn long... it doesn't really impress anybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 A fair is a place you go to ride rides. Life isn't fair, and no matter how they handle it, some will term it unfair. The company sort it how they will... we just have to let it go... ... or not. You must watch First take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojomagro Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 While we're on this subject could I make a request. Bioware: Please stop making Operation bosses death animation so gosh darn long... it doesn't really impress anybody irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Game is not ... not even close... and would be better off without that type. You keep on dreaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Sorry Artie, though I often agree with your posts, I really disagree with you on the severity of this exploit. Why do games have different gear tiers? Gear progression exists in every MMO I've ever played and serves to not only gate progression but to motivate people to keep playing. If there's no gear for people to work toward acquiring, they quickly become "bored" and leave. Alternately, they'll spam forums about "lack of content," giving the game a bad name and hurting new player recruitment. What exploiters have done is effectively eliminate one of the core parts of MMOs, since players no longer needed to work for their gear, they simply had to "game the system" as you put it. There is no progression raiding in a system where progression is thrown out the window. Is that really what SWTOR is about? Beyond that, despite Bioware's apalling track record in dealing with exploiters and cheats, the time has come to address the exploiting problem and clearly state that cheating/exploiting will NOT be tolerated. People did this because as many people in this thread have posted, "Bioware won't do anything." Once people are punished, the next time an exploit arises people will be much less likely to participate. Content costs money and man hours. How many man hours were wasted putting together this expansion, only to have it discarded by a handful of unscrupulous individuals? How many man hours will be wasted by having to track the individuals responsible? How much will it cost to develop replacement content? How many "bored" players will leave because they discarded the progression portion of "progression raiding?" There are real costs involved, and I'm pretty sure that the total will far exceed the $15 per month lost by making a decisive statement and banning the cheaters. Did this exploit somehow end progression raiding? Are you no longer able to do it? Newsflash, the high end progressive raiders will be whining about lack of content anyway. It happens whenever a new OP is released. The top guilds blow through it in a week or two and then complain about no new content. This has nothing to do with this exploit. The gear grind is still there for anyone who didn't use the exploit. Also, I'd be willing to bet that exploit or no, the folks are still enjoying the raiding at this point. The newness of the content hasn't worn off simply because the exploiters got the gear. How was the effort of the developers of the expansion discarded because folks exploited a bug and got top gear? Did the exploiters log on, do the exploit and then leave the game? Did they not do any of the other content (outside of the raids) that the expansion provided? Right now, there are absolutely no real costs involved, other than shutting down the exploit, which BW is waiting to do until Tuesday. And my guess is those costs will be no more than for any other bug fix. IF, and that's a big IF, they take measures to reset the toons of exploiters, or do what many here are requesting as punishment, then yes, that may increase costs. Which is one reason why it may be unlikely they'll do so. As for "replacement content"? Why is that necessary? Again, I ask, did the exploiters somehow stop you from being able to run and enjoy the ops as you normally would? Did they make the content easier for you somehow? Gear or no gear, they still need to learn the mechanics of the raid in order to complete it. And if they aren't interested in completing the raid and are only in it for the gear, then that's their issue. The bored players will leave no matter what. The only possible influence the exploit may have had on this is to potentially speed up that process. And it seems that most people wouldn't be bothered if they left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Sorry Artie, though I often agree with your posts, I really disagree with you on the severity of this exploit. Why do games have different gear tiers? Gear progression exists in every MMO I've ever played and serves to not only gate progression but to motivate people to keep playing. If there's no gear for people to work toward acquiring, they quickly become "bored" and leave. Alternately, they'll spam forums about "lack of content," giving the game a bad name and hurting new player recruitment. What exploiters have done is effectively eliminate one of the core parts of MMOs, since players no longer needed to work for their gear, they simply had to "game the system" as you put it. There is no progression raiding in a system where progression is thrown out the window. Is that really what SWTOR is about? Beyond that, despite Bioware's apalling track record in dealing with exploiters and cheats, the time has come to address the exploiting problem and clearly state that cheating/exploiting will NOT be tolerated. People did this because as many people in this thread have posted, "Bioware won't do anything." Once people are punished, the next time an exploit arises people will be much less likely to participate. Content costs money and man hours. How many man hours were wasted putting together this expansion, only to have it discarded by a handful of unscrupulous individuals? How many man hours will be wasted by having to track the individuals responsible? How much will it cost to develop replacement content? How many "bored" players will leave because they discarded the progression portion of "progression raiding?" There are real costs involved, and I'm pretty sure that the total will far exceed the $15 per month lost by making a decisive statement and banning the cheaters. Fair enough, but a few points in fairness. Obviously I am not an advocate of progression through gear. I look at it as a tired antiquated mechanism that is beginning to lose both relevance and holding power in MMOs. I would contend that most players do not care about END GAME progression, at least not so far as min/max which this exploit entails. Before the expansion I would argue most players used 140 Makeb mods, and the next highest group was likely 148 crafted mods. The largest group now is probably 172 Rishi mods. For most, aside from a few higher mods here and there from drops and the like or perhaps when crafted mods become the norm again this will be the cap....because it is more than enough for the vast majority of the game that most players will participate in. That is why this is likely a non-issue for most. it involves very high mods, which most players will likely never see or care about. And that was my point. Note, I did mention that I was of the opinion that it would not be a wise move for Bioware to simply let this go. But I also made it clear that I don't care either way, nor do most I imagine. This directly affects a small portion of the playerbase, and would perhaps affect more folks in the long run if it had a detrimental affect on the game economy...but for most players it is likely not a significant or important issue. Just my take of course. Edited January 9, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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