Anzel Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Dyes came out in publish 2.1. I'm pretty sure they've sucked as much money out that system as they can. Dyes should cost 0 credits to remove and should not be destroyed. For subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celwinn Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It's the same reason why we have to pay real money (CC) for appearance changes. $$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 They are consumables.But the correct answer -- or the one you be looking for -- is that Bioware just wants to nickel and dime people as much as possible. Hence, a 2000 CC dye can and WILL be destroyed upon removal, instead of tucked away like mods or augments. Oh come on, I expected more of you Wicket. The correct answer is because it's a source of income for BW (and crafters) that isn't in any way pay-to-win. It is purely cosmetic and in no way something needed to play the game. Also, the 2000cc dyes can be bought directly for that amount, or gotten randomly from the dye packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Dyes came out in publish 2.1. I'm pretty sure they've sucked as much money out that system as they can. Dyes should cost 0 credits to remove and should not be destroyed. For subscribers. Well that would kill my economy since I craft Black/Red dyes. But I'm sure you don't care about my ways of making money in the game as long as you get stuff for free, amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Pretty sure all but the most willfully blind are aware of that. Interesting how you chose to cut down that reply as the rest was actually very sensible and not very anti-BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Oh come on, I expected more of you Wicket. The sentiment is not mutual. The correct answer is because it's a source of income for BW (and crafters) that isn't in any way pay-to-win. The ones available from the CM are, per rule, not available to players to craft. It is purely cosmetic and in no way something needed to play the game. Did anyone say it was? Also, the 2000cc dyes can be bought directly for that amount, or gotten randomly from the dye packs. That is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is the need for the dyes to be destroyed upon removal; reading usually helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yes ignore the rest of the post. But I'm sure blacksmiths around the world are hard at work switching the barrels of all the laser guns in circulation whenever the owner gets a new one after killing Revan. It's also a good thing dyes in the galactic star fighter are able to be switched at will once you get one. I guess they just keep ripping that paint off and gluing it back on when they feel like reusing it? I mean if we have to be completely logical about it and everything. The point is it's a video game based on science fiction not real life so rationalizing a dye's number of uses is dumb. With that kind of reasoning everything should be free and unlimited becaus "it's a game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The sentiment is not mutual. The ones available from the CM are, per rule, not available to players to craft. Did anyone say it was? That is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is the need for the dyes to be destroyed upon removal; reading usually helps. Ease down on the condascending tone here. The need for the dyes to be destroyed upon removal should be obvious: to keep the revenue stream going (for both BW and crafters). If they made dyes infinite use, then dyes would die out pretty fast (pun intended). I make decent money off the Black/red dye for example. If that dye was changed to have infinite uses, almost nobody would buy my dyes. Sure, there would be a small trickle of purchases, but they would not be nearly enough to keep the prices at the current level. Dyes would go down to a value of a mere hundred or so credits because after a (short) while, everyone would have all their favourite colours and since they'd be infinite use, they'd never need to buy another. Not only would the CM dyes die out (which I wouldn't care about either way) but that entire niche of crafting would die out. And that's already happend to too many other items (colour crystals, anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricSevGirl Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 This is not a single player game. Its an MMO. In an MMO things need to be thought of on how they affect an entire system and not just a single character. The entire system is diminished if dyes are re-usable. The system benefits when they are consumable. Thus they are consumed on use. . Completely disagree. Look at GW2 and ESO for examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) The ones available from the CM are, per rule, not available to players to craft. Irrelevant. The point is that since dyes are one-use, they are a source of (real $) income for BWEA and (credit) income for players who re-sell CM dyes and/or make the craftable dyes. What is being discussed is the need for the dyes to be destroyed upon removal; reading usually helps. As Andryah (and I and others) posted, there is no "need" for them to be destroyed, that's simply how it works. No amount of forum hand-wringing is going to change that. Edited January 7, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 personally I'd be fine with the dye's being one-time-use if they were ALL crafted...to give crafting some meaning (there's far too little for crafters of any type to monetize) as it stands them being destroyed simply so bioware can make more $$ (and the ridiculous price of black/black proves their greed) off each one you want to use is the problem. Fine give us CM dyes..but let them be LEARNABLE for crafters. Course there'd need to be other crap added for other professions but...still. Them being destroyed is only for ONE reason...$$$$....any other side-affect (artifice being able to craft a few to make some in-game coin) is just by chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurestone Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hey, So... I was dismayed and perplexed to discover that for some reason when you remove a dye module from a piece of clothing instead of placing it back in your inventory apparently Bioware made the curious choice to force you to destroy it instead. I don't know why you can't switch out "looks" for your character from the dye's you've accumulated (as in GW2) but am curious if anybody out there has any idea as to what their rationale might be. Because what else would be the point of returning black black once in a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 personally I'd be fine with the dye's being one-time-use if they were ALL crafted...to give crafting some meaning (there's far too little for crafters of any type to monetize) as it stands them being destroyed simply so bioware can make more $$ (and the ridiculous price of black/black proves their greed) off each one you want to use is the problem. Especially since, as I pointed out, we have no option but to dye our characters' armors. With black/black or white/white we were forced to pay 2000 CC for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Because they are a necessary and much needed money sink. How does this apply to the dies purchased with CC, which comes from real-world money? * Are you OK with items that were literally purchased being single-use consumables? Or is there some confusion here between a credit-sink and a literal money-sink? (* I'm aware that CC can't be exchanged for real-world currency, but that is almost entirely irrelevant to the question.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) personally I'd be fine with the dye's being one-time-use if they were ALL crafted...to give crafting some meaning (there's far too little for crafters of any type to monetize) For the most part, I use the player crafted ones. They are actually really good dyes for many gear sets. There are a few choices from older cartel packs that I liked and accumulated for later use as well.... but these were incredibly inexpensive when they were new. TL;DR it is rare for me to spend more then 50K for a dye that I use on character gear. So them being consumable has been factored in to my game play. While I can afford to buy any dye I choose in game, why spend large funds on marginally better dye choices. Edited January 7, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keypek Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 With that kind of reasoning everything should be free and unlimited becaus "it's a game". Thanks for not reading either of my posts before chiming in but actually none of my reasoning had anything to do with the cost of dyes or removing them. I could care less if they cost cartel coins because they are also on the gtn for credits which is how I buy them. And I could care less that they are a one time use. But trying to rationalize it to people who do care by using real life as an example is dumb which was my point. Rationalizing dyes can only be used once because in real life you can only use dye once is ridiculous.... especially since you can go into GSF and use a dye as often and as much as you want and change the color of your ship as much as possible. So even the game contradicts itself without needing stupid real life reasoning. For those that need such reasoning at least. I'm just here to point that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Ease down on the condascending tone here. You were the condescending one, surely not me. Plus, what I said is logical, namely that your behavior by now is well known. I'll leave it at that. The need for the dyes to be destroyed upon removal should be obvious: to keep the revenue stream going (for both BW). Fixed. If they made dyes infinite use, then dyes would die out pretty fast (pun intended). So you claim. I make decent money off the Black/red dye for example. I believe some people -- at least -- take issue with the dyes you can purchase from the CM, not some much the ones you can craft. If that dye was changed to have infinite uses, almost nobody would buy my dyes. Sure, there would be a small trickle of purchases, but they would not be nearly enough to keep the prices at the current level. There is a workaround for that, which is not that complicated to conjure. Not only would the CM dyes die out (which I wouldn't care about either way) but that entire niche of crafting would die out. The system could make a distinction between the dyes available from the CM, for 2000 CC or so, and the ones that are craftable. They could make the latter a one-time use affair, while the ones from the CM could become bound to a single character and / or be used a minimum number of times. Instead, they go for the option that maximizes profits for them; claiming that crafters are truly a priority for BW is kinda of a laugh. And that's already happend to too many other items (colour crystals, anyone?) How many new color crystal schematics have you seen lately again? For crafters I mean. Edited January 7, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 For the most part, I use the player crafted ones. They are actually really good dyes for many gear sets. There are a few choices from older cartel packs that I liked and accumulated for later use as well.... but these were incredibly inexpensive when they were new. TL;DR it is rare for me to spend more then 50K for a dye that I use on character gear. So them being consumable has been factored in to my game play. While I can afford to buy any dye I choose in game, why spend large funds on marginally better dye choices. uh...a TL;DR is kinda rendered pointless when it's just as long as what you're trying to sum up....just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 How does this apply to the dies purchased with CC, which comes from real-world money? Are you OK with items that were literally purchased being single-use consumables? Or is there some confusion here between a credit-sink and a literal money-sink? Why would it be a problem? No one's standing there with a gun forcing a player to pay ~$20 for a single-use dye module. If someone is that stupid, rich or (more likely) both, then that's their problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Especially since, as I pointed out, we have no option but to dye our characters' armors. With black/black or white/white we were forced to pay 2000 CC for. Nobody is forcing you to dye your characters armour... Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Instead, they go for the option that maximizes profits for them; claiming that crafters are truly a priority for them is kinda of a laugh. Tell me about it. Record companies also tell us that their efforts to impose strict DRM schemes and crush all sharing or copying are "for the artist", and some consumers actually believe that spin too. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Why would it be a problem? No one's standing there with a gun forcing a player to pay ~$20 for a single-use dye module. If someone is that stupid, rich or (more likely) both, then that's their problem. As it stands, you're right -- paying $20 for a consumable pixel-item is daft, but some people are willing to do it. I'd like it to be different, I think it should be different, I'd like people to say "no thank you" so that BW has incentive to change how it works... but you're not wrong. Nobody is forcing you to dye your characters armour... Just sayin' I *think* he was being sarcastic... Edited January 7, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 And the only MMO to have this stupid restriction. No, its not the only MMO in which dyes are consumed. It's been my experience the consumed dyes are much more common than reusable dyes in the MMO industry. And of course what everyone complaining about one use dyes is ignoring is that many dyes are also crafted in game, so giving a crafting profession a way to make money is somehow terrible. And before some idiot suggests it, only making CM dyes changeable would be as damaging to crafted dyes and having all dyes removable. Why pay a bunch of credits for a crafted dye when a couple of bucks could get you an Neverending Dye Module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Instead, they go for the option that maximizes profits for them; claiming that crafters are truly a priority for BW is kinda of a laugh. Your Dye ideas would all destroy dye crafting for crafters, so they obviously care more about us then you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) You were the condescending one, surely not me. Plus, what I said is logical, namely that your behavior by now is well known. I'll leave it at that. You are certainly not the one to go into what kind of reputation people have. Yours is hardly untarnished around here. Fixed. Not quite. But nice try. So you claim. Easy example: What happened to the crafting of colour crystal after the cartel market crystal were introduced with the legacy option? It pretty much died, that's what. I believe some people -- at least -- take issue with the dye you can purchase from the CM, not some much the ones you can craft. And some people take issue with same sex romance. Doesn't mean they are automatically right. There is a workaround for that, which is not that complicated to conjure. Yeah, crafting something else or only letting dyes from the cartel market be infinate. But do you really think people would be fine with getting legacy on cartel dyes and not crafted dyes? Because people tend to whine about stuff around here, in case you didn't notice. The system could make a distinction between the dyes available from the CM, for 2000 CC or so, and the ones that are craftable. They could make the latter a one-time use affair, while the ones from the CM could become bound to a single character and / or be used a minimum number of times. Instead, they go for the option that maximizes profits for them; claiming that crafters are truly a priority for them is kinda of a laugh. Maximising profits is hardly the term to use. the black and white dye combos are so expensive that they can't possibly sell enough to be profitable. They are doing it for profit, of course. But they're a company. Companies are kinda known for doing things for profit. Making the cartel dyes reusable would practically dry up that revenue stream for them. It's hardly their biggest revenue stream (that would be the cartel packs) but it's still dumb of a company to willingly dry up one of their revenue streams. How many new color crystal schematics have you seen lately again? For crafters I mean. 14 in the new SOR expansion. (+4 from the two new reputation vendors) Edited January 7, 2015 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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