5000 fleet req is apparently not enough

[Verain]

Since there are still two shippers, clearly many are not getting the message.

 

Instead of 5000 fleet req, it should just unlock the type 1 gunship and the type 1 bomber, and if either of those is unlocked already, gain a 2500 fleet req token for each such ship.

[Danalon]

Two days ago I explained to a guildmate why he should not ever spend fleet requisition on ship upgrades until he has bought all ships and crew (or at least the important ones).

 

There may be some people that waste their fleet requisition to upgrade starter ships instead of getting new ships etc.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Danalon

[Ramalina]

Since there are still two shippers, clearly many are not getting the message.

 

Instead of 5000 fleet req, it should just unlock the type 1 gunship and the type 1 bomber, and if either of those is unlocked already, gain a 2500 fleet req token for each such ship.

 

Who'd want a gunship of any description when they could have a Clarion instead? Some of the Imperial gunships have about as many fins, but they're not nearly as sexy.

 

You're also making the assumption that these people are actually taking and completing the GSF starter quest.

I quote, "There's a quest for this? Where do you get it?" Sad, but true.

 

Forcing a bomber or gunship on someone who'd rather have crew unlocks, a battlescout, an alternate strike, or even just changing out the crap components on the stock ships would kinda suck.

 

In general, if the player's comprehension of how GSF works is so poor that they don't even realize they can buy another ship, there's a fair chance that having a GS or bomber unlocked isn't really going to help them all that much. Instead of being helpless targets they'd be slow helpless targets.

 

If you think the default stock ships should include a GS and Bomber just ask for that. Starting with one of each class does make a fair amount of sense. GSF has enough life after mastering ships that they wouldn't be facing the sort of, "End of gear-grind player loss," that you see in the ground game (or at least I don't think so). Even if I'm wrong about that, 10k worth of req doesn't shave significant amount off of that. So go ahead and double the number of free ships for non-subs, as long as you unlocked them for everyone it wouldn't really have much downside.

[Verain]

You're also making the assumption that these people are actually taking and completing the GSF starter quest.

 

That's an issue that is game wide. Instead of just giving you the bonuses, sans quests, or handing you the quests, sans quest givers, you have to walk up to some crazy jukebox on the lamest possible place. That's ludicrous, but it's a game wide issue, not a GSF one. If you don't know where to get quests in this game, that's not GSF's fault (or your fault).

 

Forcing a bomber or gunship on someone who'd rather have crew unlocks, a battlescout, an alternate strike, or even just changing out the crap components on the stock ships would kinda suck.

 

No, it would not. It would be GREAT, in fact. See, the game already forces a mediocre scout and strike unlock on you. Lets add an actually good bomber and gunship unlock, so people aren't spending their fleet req for 5% extra rapid fire laser damage. Take the choice away from those too damned fool to make the most of it.

 

Or, of course, you could just start everyone with those ships. That would also be fine.

 

In general, if the player's comprehension of how GSF works is so poor that they don't even realize they can buy another ship, there's a fair chance that having a GS or bomber unlocked isn't really going to help them all that much.

 

I disagree. I think they'll try out each ship, if they have them.

 

 

If you think the default stock ships should include a GS and Bomber just ask for that. Starting with one of each class does make a fair amount of sense.

 

I have, of course, and repeated that in this post. But my point is that the 5k fleet req is handed to people who really don't know how to spend it, and that's probably hurting the new player experience. While I'm normally down on things people claim are holding GSF back, I really do feel that if you get some currency that takes a very long time to earn, spend it improperly, and don't realize that until later, than cognitive dissonance will convince you either:

 

1)- It was correct to spend your 5000 fleet requisition on 4% health, extra rapid fire laser damage, and a terrible sensor, so soon you'll be arguing about how legit you are for doing it.

2)- It was a waste even queueing, because you dorked everything up and forget it, forget it all.

[MiaowZedong]

You have to be level 10 to pick up the starter quest. People who don't PvP won't know it exists.

 

 

That said, I think Verain won't be satisfied even if his suggestions were implemented. Given his posts elsewhere, he'll still complain about people flying bad ships. Might as well just delete 8 of the 12 ships (7? I guess the T3 scout counts as good for a few seconds at the start of a dom match?), then remove most of the components on the remaining ones

 

Some people fly bad ships for the lulz. Some people try to find a way to make more than battlescouts, T1 gunships and bombers viable. Some people want to win with bad gear for bigger bragging rights. Some newbies don't know which ship to pick so save their req until they've made up their mind.

Edited January 7, 2015 by MiaowZedong

[Helig]

This game doesn't need more gunships Let beginners do whatever they want with their starting requisition.

[Ryuku-sama]

This game doesn't need more gunships Let beginners do whatever they want with their starting requisition.

 

Sure.. I'm just facepalming every time a newbie whines and when you ask them what they did with their free 5k req he answers I buffed my RFL... Or I buffed my QCS.

 

But I totally agree with you.. Lets convince BW to build a decent tutorial instead of shippping us noobs we can destroy with RFL on a strike...

[Helig]

Sure.. I'm just facepalming every time a newbie whines and when you ask them what they did with their free 5k req he answers I buffed my RFL... Or I buffed my QCS.

 

But I totally agree with you.. Lets convince BW to build a decent tutorial instead of shippping us noobs we can destroy with RFL on a strike...

Idd. Better tutorial would be awesome.

 

Also, some component balance polish would be nice. Some pieces are clearly inferior next to the competition, even when considering different builds and strategies.

[Fractalsponge]

Some of them might have been very casual players from earlier that aren't eligible for the "new" first time reward.

 

But yes, unlock more ships, and, hell all components (base but not T1) while you're at it. Then people can actually choose what to plow requisition into. It would encourage more first timers to try more matches too, if only to see all the other ships and components. They might get good enough to stay.

[JadenYugari]

The main issue here is, that new players expect that they will choose their favourite ship and stick with it basically forever. So they pick their shiny fighter and drop all reqs in it and as soon as their first match starts they will get rolled over just because they didnt pick gunship or such. They dont want to be forced into a ship class X because the enemy picked ship class Y. They want to be able to do both defensive, offensive and dogfight stuff with single ship class.

[MiaowZedong]

The main issue here is, that new players expect that they will choose their favourite ship and stick with it basically forever. So they pick their shiny fighter and drop all reqs in it and as soon as their first match starts they will get rolled over just because they didnt pick gunship or such. They dont want to be forced into a ship class X because the enemy picked ship class Y. They want to be able to do both defensive, offensive and dogfight stuff with single ship class.

And there is nothing wrong with that—provided you are good and know how to build your ship and how to make your build work. I have my best character KDR on the alt that only has the two starter ships. They're both mastered by now, but obviously they weren't for over a hundred games. Some of the best pilots in the game have only one ship on their bar. Obviously you can't do every single thing in one ship, but that's not a problem in a team game. When you queue up for a WZ as a healer, you don't expect to take top damage either.

 

The problem is new players aren't good at GSF. They need to discover every ship, its strengths and weaknesses before they can say they have mastered (skillwise) any given ship.

Edited January 7, 2015 by MiaowZedong

[Verain]

That said, I think Verain won't be satisfied even if his suggestions were implemented. Given his posts elsewhere, he'll still complain about people flying bad ships. Might as well just delete 8 of the 12 ships (7? I guess the T3 scout counts as good for a few seconds at the start of a dom match?), then remove most of the components on the remaining ones

 

Given my posts elsewhere? I've posted huge amounts on balance, and unlike most of the QQ posts, most of my text is on the WEAK components becoming better. I'm hugely in favor of more ships, and more options on ships. A deep meta is literally the number 1 thing that my posts are aimed at.

 

Some people fly bad ships for the lulz.

 

THIS IS NOT ABOUT GOOD PILOTS

 

This is about bads. A bad pilot might claim to fly a bad ship for the lulz, but why should I believe them? If someone is on this forum talking about how much fun they are having in some garbagebutt build, that's fine, and I do that too. This is about repairing a real issue GSF has- even with 5000 fleet req, many new players will click something silly, like a ship req upgrade, and not understand that this is a terrible idea. The game trusts new players too much- it should simply forbid that. I should never, ever, see a two-shipper past their first game, and yet, I do. I still see two-shippers. The game should prevent this.

 

Let beginners do whatever they want with their starting requisition.

 

The game desperately needs more gunships, and more bombers, and more pilots in general who see more ships than just the two very specialized starting ships and erroneously think that those are default or normal ships. Most certainly, a new player will be more likely to play more given more actual options- hence why all components should be 0, 50, or 100 ship req to unlock the level 0 variant, and why the sweet 5000 fleet req- which Bioware even hinted was meant to be used to buy ships- should be forced to be exactly that. You probably shouldn't be able to convert fleet to ship req until you've unlocked six ships or something, sheesh.

 

Some pieces are clearly inferior next to the competition, even when considering different builds and strategies.

 

Yea, and we've spilled a lot of electrons on that. The next balance pass will probably fix some weak components, but we really have no idea when that will be. I seriously want them to retool rapid fire lasers, for instance- it's a giant trap of a component.

 

Some of them might have been very casual players from earlier that aren't eligible for the "new" first time reward.

 

I just don't buy it. There's still too many of them, even for that!

 

 

 

They want to be able to do both defensive, offensive and dogfight stuff with single ship class.

 

The game should force them to play the game, not some construct that will make them angry when reality doesn't adhere to it. It wouldn't be reasonable for a game with 12 ships to be perfectly happy to let you live with a type 1 strike ONLY, any more than it would be reasonable for a type 1 bomber to be perfect in all situations.

 

And it's fine if a player prefers to master one ship type, but they are obviously giving something up. If they weren't, why even have the other ship types?

 

Players should be informed that gunships and bombers aren't "advanced" ships, they are a core part of the GSF experience. Choosing a type 1 scout is committing to a playstyle, just like choosing a type 1 bomber is.

 

Crush these delusions with rules that prevent noobs from accepting a false frame. Crush them, I say!

 

The problem is new players aren't good at GSF. They need to discover every ship, its strengths and weaknesses before they can say they have mastered (skillwise) any given ship.

 

Exactly.

 

 

One reason new players are stuck on terrible weapons is because the cost to switch is a huge risk to them mentally- they have this gun that they are a little bit used to, and they can upgrade it for 1000 or switch to an entirely unknown gun for 2000. Unless you want to go search forums and guides (which some do, but not all), you are unlikely to make that switch until you've played a lot of games. The default ships are very punishing about that, offering rapid fire lasers on BOTH ships (really, both?), with an option of heavies if you know to switch to it on the strike. So you can't even play all your ships to see the different types. With a forced unlock of gunship and bomber, you'd at least see players trying out rapid fires, lights, laser cannon (supposedly the default, after all), and maybe even heavies, as well as getting them to stick around for twice as many games to try new ships, and likely reducing the amount of "those gunships / bombers are the ENEMY", because they would be in the pilot seat early and realize what is given up (or even decide to play them as their main, which would also be good for the game).

 

 

 

Some people try to find a way to make more than battlescouts, T1 gunships and bombers viable.

 

Those aren't the only viable ships. Most newbs don't know that those are good, however, and should absolutely be forced into owning type 1 gunships and type 1 bombers. The choice they are given is a bad one- there's a right and a wrong option, and the game gives you every hint you should take the wrong option. It's a massive, massive, trap, with social and gameplay ramifications. It should be struck.

 

Oh, and new players aren't trying to "find a way" to make their ship viable. They don't know what they should be doing, so they are doing the wrong thing. The right thing is to unlock new ships, of every class, not try to find a state where it's legal to marry the Starguard.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Verain

[RickDagles]

It makes perfect sense to automatically give beginner players the T1 GS and T1 bomber. What's interesting is that the T1 bomber starts with seismic mines and concussion mines, so even a beginner can be super effective in domination without any upgrades.

 

It would be really nice to type in chat: pick the bomber, go to a node, press "1" and right mouse button.

Edited January 7, 2015 by RickDagles

[nyghtrunner]

Haven't gone through all the text (mainly just the first page, but skimmed the 2nd), but just wanted to note that while they did up that starting reward (and all quest rewards for req), it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the 2-shippers out there might also have already done the intro missions, and are like halfway done upgrading one of the 2 starters. Rather than branching out, they just keep upgrading.

 

Not saying I agree with the thought process, because the BB/Nova is only really good in the right hands, with the right build (not commenting on T1 Strike), but it wouldn't surprise me if some of the casual fliers who only do the daily every now and again wouldn't start a new character to get the starter req, and get a new ship. They may rather just spend the small amount of time they do spend flying upgrading the current ships they have.

Edited January 7, 2015 by nyghtrunner

[Ryuku-sama]

Haven't gone through all the text (mainly just the first page, but skimmed the 2nd), but just wanted to note that while they did up that starting reward (and all quest rewards for req), it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the 2-shippers out there might also have already done the intro missions, and are like halfway done upgrading one of the 2 starters. Rather than branching out, they just keep upgrading.

 

Not saying I agree with the thought process, because the BB/Nova is only really good in the right hands, with the right build (not commenting on T1 Strike), but it wouldn't surprise me if some of the casual fliers who only do the daily every now and again wouldn't start a new character to get the starter req, and get a new ship. They may rather just spend the small amount of time they do spend flying upgrading the current ships they have.

 

Get on JCov... And fight Siddain/Caldenti/Dainan. He is one of the best T1 strike I know off.

[nyghtrunner]

Get on JCov... And fight Siddain/Caldenti/Dainan. He is one of the best T1 strike I know off.

Oh, I know him. I was making a general statement, not looking at specific pilots. I was more responding to why there might still be 2 shippers running around, despite the upped rewards.

 

And I still maintain that in general, maxing one of the 2 starter ships to be your "main" ship is really sub-optimal unless you know what you're doing. Most true 2 shippers will have no clue as to what they are doing, which is one of the reasons that I wouldn't advise maxing a starter ship as your first ship.

 

And seriously, tell ME to get on JCov?! That's where I spend 95% of my matches!

 

Cheers, Kee!

[Ryuku-sama]

Oh, I know him. I was making a general statement, not looking at specific pilots. I was more responding to why there might still be 2 shippers running around, despite the upped rewards.

 

And I still maintain that in general, maxing one of the 2 starter ships to be your "main" ship is really sub-optimal unless you know what you're doing. Most true 2 shippers will have no clue as to what they are doing, which is one of the reasons that I wouldn't advise maxing a starter ship as your first ship.

 

And seriously, tell ME to get on JCov?! That's where I spend 95% of my matches!

 

Cheers, Kee!

 

I almost never see you there.. And I'm almost always on.. Well was until last Wednesday.. My mouse broke and I got a new one today...

[nyghtrunner]

I almost never see you there.. And I'm almost always on.. Well was until last Wednesday.. My mouse broke and I got a new one today...

Honestly, that's because I haven't been flying a lot recently. Much of that was because of Christmas and New Year. Along with getting a shiny new PS4 for the holidays that I simply HAD to mess around with.

 

I was on there with Ceylon and Levv last night (Incidentally, Ceylon is the scout pilot I referred to in Nem's thread about the speed-scout. I may have actually coaxed him out of retirement! ), and we had some really good matches against Keenz, Kor, and co. I kept wondering if you might show up at some point, because we were running around for a few hours on both factions. But never ran into you.

 

But outside of last night, I really haven't flown more than like 6-7 matches since early December...

[Ryuku-sama]

Honestly, that's because I haven't been flying a lot recently. Much of that was because of Christmas and New Year. Along with getting a shiny new PS4 for the holidays that I simply HAD to mess around with.

 

I was on there with Ceylon and Levv last night (Incidentally, Ceylon is the scout pilot I referred to in Nem's thread about the speed-scout. I may have actually coaxed him out of retirement! ), and we had some really good matches against Keenz, Kor, and co. I kept wondering if you might show up at some point, because we were running around for a few hours on both factions. But never ran into you.

 

But outside of last night, I really haven't flown more than like 6-7 matches since early December...

 

Ceylon = Kappadh????

[nyghtrunner]

Ceylon = Kappadh????

No, you wouldn't know Ceylon. He quit flying pretty much back in March or so (Maybe February). He and Levvix were probably 1 and 1A in terms of GS pilots on the server at the time, and Ceylon was much better in a blackbolt than I ever will be, but I was better in a StingFire.

 

I got him to come join us for the GSF night on TEH, and am hoping I can get him to roll a toon on Bastion for the Super Serious nights, because I think he would have a lot of fun with it. The entire reason he quit was lack of competition once we'd broken the Pub premade lines on JC. Ceylon's a nice guy, and never liked being in matches that were stomps in our favor.

 

We ran over to TEH for a minute, but I think only spent like 2-3 nights over there before we lost interest. That was actually around the time I took a lengthy break from GSF, that lasted pretty much all summer. But that's the only reason I already had a toon over on TEH, and I still fly over there with her randomly.

 

Ceylon's in my raid group, though, so I work on him here and there. And now that Levvix joined our guild and is flying at least here and there, I'm hoping I can get them back out there on a regular basis. We really did have some pretty good games last night, including I think a 43-41 win agains Keenz, Korvith, Saevius (I think? I know we ran into him a couple times through the course of the night, and I think he was in that one), and... 1 or 2 other decent vets.

Edited January 7, 2015 by nyghtrunner

[Ramalina]

After thinking about it more, if you wanted to have an improved implementation of GSF introductory experience, maybe something like this:

 

Have a learning GSF quest chain, but don't gate the daily and weekly behind it.

 

Quest one: Accepting the quest gives you 1 k ship requisition. To complete the quest open your hangar and use the requisition to upgrade a component, then fly a match on the upgraded ship. Rewards xp, credits, and 500 ship requisition upon completion.

 

Quest two: Accepting the quest gives 2 k ship requisition. To complete the quest open your hangar and unlock a ship component, and play a match with the upgraded ship. Rewards xp, credits, and 750 ship requisition upon completion.

 

Quest three: Accepting the quest gives 1.5k Fleet requisition. To complete the quest, open your hangar and unlock a new crew member. Select the new crew member as your copilot. Fly a match and use the crewmember's active ability at least once. Rewards xp, credits, and 500 fleet requisition upon completion.

 

 

Quest four: To complete the quest fly a match and used each of your active abilities 1-4, at least one time. Also use F1-F4 to shift power to each setting at least once. Rewards xp, credits, 500 ship requisition, and 100 fleet requisition upon completion.

 

Quest five: To complete the quest fly matches and damage a satellite turret and pick up a TDM powerup. Rewards xp, credits, 2.5k ship requisition and 250 fleet requisition upon completion.

 

Quest six: Play 5 GSF matches. Rewards xp, credits, a GSF cosmetic item, a GSF pet, and 5k fleet requisition upon completion. Possibly throw in an NPC cut-scene where you're told (or at least strongly hinted) to go buy yourself a new ship.

 

What with queue randomness, it might be a good idea to make quests five and six able to run concurrently instead of being sequential.

 

I'd even keep the current starting GSF quest. Combined that would give enough Fleet req for either two new ship unlocks, or a new ship and a full complement of crew.

 

I'd love to throw in a survival oriented quest of some sort, but that's not really something a rank beginner can control when facing experienced opposition.

 

So you have quest text that can give fairly detailed instructions, you introduce the elements of the gear progression for GSF, you give enough requisition to go get rid of the worst trap components on at least one of the starter ships, and you give the big lump of fleet requisition after you've walked the player through the basics of fleet req being more valuable for crew and ship unlocks than for generic upgrades. It also doesn't gate the alts of advanced players behind a tutorial chain if they'd rather just grab daily and weekly quests and jump straight into the fray.

 

It's also a learing aid that doesn't require creating GSF battlefield content, though I don't know if creating the sorts of quests outlined above would be easy, or if GSF is internally so funky and weird that normal quest designers wouldn't be able to pull it off without significant help from the GSF dev team.

 

I suppose that if they don't want to go giving away too much Fleet req (cause CC conversion $$$ ), they might do this on a legacy basis. Also they could mention the availability of conversion in one of the quests, or bake a tiny CC conversion into one of the fleet requisition quests, so that new pilots know that they can blow a lot of CCs on GSF if they want to accelerate gearing a particular ship.

[Nevarr]

There might be a few 2 shippers out there that just appear to be 2 shippers. I'll buy ships on my alts and leave them off my bar until I can get a couple of the more critical/fun upgrades on them. Of course, that's not who you're talking about...

[Ryuku-sama]

There might be a few 2 shippers out there that just appear to be 2 shippers. I'll buy ships on my alts and leave them off my bar until I can get a couple of the more critical/fun upgrades on them. Of course, that's not who you're talking about...

 

Quell - Rycer Master Ace FTW... lol.