Ability delay and the wearing thin of patience

[ZmanXO]

Stop it.

 

Yes, the lag is bad.

 

yes, the lag is annoying.

 

Yes, it would have been nice if they had fixed it faster.

 

But stop it.

 

The game is no where near unplayable.

It's not a matter of how bad it is or if it's still playable but if it's acceptable for this to continue for so long for a game that has people paying for it.

 

I can honestly say that I've never seen anything so chronically sub standard for such and extended period from ANY game I've played whether I subscribed to it or was FTP and the fact that Bioware nickel and dimes every aspect of this game in minute detail makes it much more aggravating to me.

 

They should be handing out gifts of some sort to everyone for having to continually suffer through their imcompetence whether it's to fix the problem in a timely manner or for letting it happen in the first place.

Edited January 5, 2015 by ZmanXO

[Kourage]

Almost everyone who works for the company in the other half of our building gets at least a week off between Christmas Eve and New Years Day. Many of them work 10-12 hour days, weekends, etc, for the entire summer, so I think they earn those days off.

 

 

A company has a responsibility to not interrupt or have a drop off in service to it's customers. Simply leaving the game servers running is not acceptable. Not immediately following a paid expansion product you just sold. They should have waited until after their vacation to sell the product. If I signed up with a cable company and my channels weren't working properly, they better fix it immediately. They don't get to say, well these channels still work and you have cable so just tough it out till we get back from vacation. Anyone who is fed up and leaves the game is not going to return and I don't see an influx of brand new players to replace those who have quit. This game is going downhill and it's because of the terrible way it's being managed.

[Aries_cz]

A company has a responsibility to not interrupt or have a drop off in service to it's customers. Simply leaving the game servers running is not acceptable. Not immediately following a paid expansion product you just sold. They should have waited until after their vacation to sell the product. If I signed up with a cable company and my channels weren't working properly, they better fix it immediately. They don't get to say, well these channels still work and you have cable so just tough it out till we get back from vacation. Anyone who is fed up and leaves the game is not going to return and I don't see an influx of brand new players to replace those who have quit. This game is going downhill and it's because of the terrible way it's being managed.

 

Actually, Support is still working.

You cable analogy would be to servers crashing down. Which did happen (Shadowlands, I think), and it was fixed almost immediately.

[Tolunart]

My personal belief is that the management of this game is heavily incentivized to drive a certain level of return on investment, meaning pull in as much revenue as possible with as little expense as required, with little to no incentive to worry about customer satisfaction.

 

You're talking about management, though, not the devs. These decisions are not made by the people who write and test the code, who maintain the servers, etc.

 

I find it appalling that people are insulting those who have worked hard for the past several months (likely much harder than any of the complainers have worked at anything) because they, having sacrificed time with families, sleep etc. to launch the expansion on time, now prioritize spending a little time with their families instead of dancing to the whims of the players.

 

The devs don't get to make decisions about when the expansion is launched. They didn't decide to launch the game just before Christmas three years ago. The devs know what kind of problems go along with these releases, and they accept that because they have no say in the matter. Those who made these decisions aren't going to read your complaints. All these complaints isn't going to make any decision-maker feel bad or change his mind. It isn't going to magically conjure up the solution to any problem or make the code write itself.

 

If you don't like the way the game is handled, by all means, don't buy CCs, cancel your subscription, uninstall the game. But insulting the devs for being human beings just makes you an entitled jerk, and several other things that would be censored and/or infracted. You're wasting your time.

[Pagy]

Stop it.

 

Yes, the lag is bad.

 

yes, the lag is annoying.

 

Yes, it would have been nice if they had fixed it faster.

 

But stop it.

 

The game is no where near unplayable.

whether or not the game is playable is a matter of opinion and is reflected by whether or not we choose to subscribe.

[WingCero]

You're talking about management, though, not the devs. These decisions are not made by the people who write and test the code, who maintain the servers, etc.

 

I find it appalling that people are insulting those who have worked hard for the past several months (likely much harder than any of the complainers have worked at anything) because they, having sacrificed time with families, sleep etc. to launch the expansion on time, now prioritize spending a little time with their families instead of dancing to the whims of the players.

 

The devs don't get to make decisions about when the expansion is launched. They didn't decide to launch the game just before Christmas three years ago. The devs know what kind of problems go along with these releases, and they accept that because they have no say in the matter. Those who made these decisions aren't going to read your complaints. All these complaints isn't going to make any decision-maker feel bad or change his mind. It isn't going to magically conjure up the solution to any problem or make the code write itself.

 

If you don't like the way the game is handled, by all means, don't buy CCs, cancel your subscription, uninstall the game. But insulting the devs for being human beings just makes you an entitled jerk, and several other things that would be censored and/or infracted. You're wasting your time.

 

I dont think most people here feel like its all the devs fault and im pretty sure that we all believe that the people that work on the game do deserve time off and time to spend with their families. The problem is that they knew these problems existed the day they launched the expansion on DEC.2 2014(and prob during their internal alpha and beta) and it took till JAN.2 2015 to for them to even say they are looking into it with no date of a fix. All they said is you will hear more on NEXT FRI. adding another 2 weeks. And as was addressed in this forum earlier customer service was still available so how come it takes 6 week so get as much as a hey we have a problem let alone a fix. Hence ALOT of player feel neglected and frustrated that their money is only getting them a half completed expansion AFTER a year of waiting and hoping that bioware would get their act together and come out with new content to keep player wanting to stay in the game.

[Tolunart]

A very small percentage of players even visit the forums, much less rely on it for news about the game. Whether or not anyone has made an official announcement on the forums has nothing to do with efforts to find and fix the problem. People seem to assume that, first, every single staff member working on the game hasn't even come in to work for several weeks, and second, that the players have the right to order them around. Neither is true.

 

The issue is most likely due in part to an increased amount of activity in certain parts of the game. When there are 50% more people than usual in a small area, that greatly increases the number of objects being rendered, animations being triggered, and other operations happening, which can slow down the system. This is the reason why there are DDOS attacks, if too many requests are being sent to the server at once it can crash the entire system.

 

If there are other factors at work it will take time to find and correct the problems.

 

BW is not obligated to keep players informed of every bug found, every solution proposed and tested, and every change prepared for the next patch. They simply are not going to come here and give you that kind of information, nor should they. And the hyperbolic claims that this will lead to a mass exodus of players because the devs are not posting on the (mostly ignored) forums is obvious nonsense and is not going to scare anyone into doing what you want them to do.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Tolunart

[Sorwen]

You're talking about management, though, not the devs. These decisions are not made by the people who write and test the code, who maintain the servers, etc.

 

I find it appalling that people are insulting those who have worked hard for the past several months (likely much harder than any of the complainers have worked at anything) because they, having sacrificed time with families, sleep etc. to launch the expansion on time, now prioritize spending a little time with their families instead of dancing to the whims of the players.

 

The devs don't get to make decisions about when the expansion is launched. They didn't decide to launch the game just before Christmas three years ago. The devs know what kind of problems go along with these releases, and they accept that because they have no say in the matter. Those who made these decisions aren't going to read your complaints. All these complaints isn't going to make any decision-maker feel bad or change his mind. It isn't going to magically conjure up the solution to any problem or make the code write itself.

 

If you don't like the way the game is handled, by all means, don't buy CCs, cancel your subscription, uninstall the game. But insulting the devs for being human beings just makes you an entitled jerk, and several other things that would be censored and/or infracted. You're wasting your time.

I'm sure the Dev's love that you are White Knighting them, but I'm sure they don't appreciate you telling their paychecks to go some where else if they don't like it.

[Tolunart]

I'm sure the Dev's love that you are White Knighting them, but I'm sure they don't appreciate you telling their paychecks to go some where else if they don't like it.

 

I don't give a damn either way, I'm, going to express my opinion on this nonsense whether you approve or not.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I'm sure the Dev's love that you are White Knighting them, but I'm sure they don't appreciate you telling their paychecks to go some where else if they don't like it.

 

Heaven forbid people express their opinions on the matter without being labeled.

[Pagy]

A very small percentage of players even visit the forums, much less rely on it for news about the game. Whether or not anyone has made an official announcement on the forums has nothing to do with efforts to find and fix the problem. People seem to assume that, first, every single staff member working on the game hasn't even come in to work for several weeks, and second, that the players have the right to order them around. Neither is true.

yes we'll see just how big the patch is tomorrow. after all, according to you, they've been hard at work since 3.0.1 released on Dec16.

 

on one hand i think getting upset at them for disappearing over xmas is silly, but at the same time i'll freely critique how silly it was to disappear after a major expansion release and not addressing major defects and exploits that affect your revenue.

The issue is most likely due in part to an increased amount of activity in certain parts of the game. When there are 50% more people than usual in a small area, that greatly increases the number of objects being rendered, animations being triggered, and other operations happening, which can slow down the system. This is the reason why there are DDOS attacks, if too many requests are being sent to the server at once it can crash the entire system.

 

If there are other factors at work it will take time to find and correct the problems.

great analysis hansel, except im getting ability delay on my targeting dummy and belsavis. this is a lot more complicated than you think which will take a lot of time and effort to resolve fully which is what bothers me given the fact they havent started getting into the woods yet. they already tried the instance limits etc and obviously havent fixed anything.

BW is not obligated to keep players informed of every bug found, every solution proposed and tested, and every change prepared for the next patch. They simply are not going to come here and give you that kind of information, nor should they. And the hyperbolic claims that this will lead to a mass exodus of players because the devs are not posting on the (mostly ignored) forums is obvious nonsense and is not going to scare anyone into doing what you want them to do.

its professional courtesy to communicate with paying customers. sure they can choose not to, and that will mean people stop being customers. you make it sound like empty threats and in many case i'm sure youre right.

 

it doesnt take a genius to see how the server pops dropped. bw is aware of their subscriber situation and will act however they chose to strengthen or sacrifice it...that's their business not mine.

I don't give a damn either way, I'm, going to express my opinion on this nonsense whether you approve or not.

you're posting an awful lot for someone that doesnt "give a damn" friend.

[Mercediz]

It really sucks... I like this game a lot, but its seriously got to the point to where I can't play it at an enjoyable level. Also this has lead to a few of my long time friends leaving, which makes it less and less enjoyable everyday. This is creating a snowball effect and it will kill this game. You may have some loyal member stick it out, but even over time their friends will stop and it will just grow and grow.

 

Seriously don't let something like this kill your game... what will make me quit. Is if the next patch comes out, and you've spent all this time and money on new content to make, and if there is no hint of this getting fix. This action will only show that you literally do not care one bit. Its so sad that there is not response that give us any indication that you care and are working to FIX it, the info we have gotten is that you're aware of the issue.

 

There is a huge difference between being aware of the problem, and working at trying to fix the problem.

[Tolunart]

yes we'll see just how big the patch is tomorrow. after all, according to you, they've been hard at work since 3.0.1 released on Dec16.

 

you're posting an awful lot for someone that doesnt "give a damn" friend.

 

Yes, because if it's not black then it must be white. There are only ever two possibilities in life.

 

I just got Google Chromecast and have been spending the afternoon watching Netflix movies. This is just passing the time.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Tolunart

[HazardousMatt]

At this point I'd settle for them just rebooting the servers. Maybe it's just observer bias, but I could swear that going 3 weeks since the last maintenance has made things worse.

[ivanhedgehog]

I'm gonna generously assume you're a kid whose never had to work a job and thus might not understand what holidays mean. For your enlightenment, when you're on holidays you're NOT being paid to work.

 

If you're collecting pay at all, it's eaither from overtime hours banked for such a purpose (and you can bet before 3.0 hit they where all putting in lots and lots of overtime) or it's a special deal you're company has offered you. The Devs aren't going to be working if they're on holiday.

 

your assumption would be very wrong. I am a manager that has to work no matter what if there is a need. I have spent christmas week on 24 hour call that resulted in 40 hrs regular pay and 50 OT. adults have responsibilities that sometimes prohibit them from getting weeks off on the holidays. My time in the Army didnt always get holidays off. so be it. I dont for a second think that all employees of bioware are hourly employees. just because they have production delayed for holiday time off does not mean their game is shut off.

Edited January 6, 2015 by ivanhedgehog

[ivanhedgehog]

Computer programming is a very complex task. Identifying the causes of bugs is probably the trickiest part of that. Furthermore, bugs pertaining to performance in a real-time system with a large number of servers and clients are some of the trickiest bugs to identify and solve.

 

I really wish more people realized this. The programmers at BioWare are probably more frustrated with these problems than any of us are.

 

and it takes 5 min to give an actual posted update. "still looking into this, complex problem, will let you know whats going on"

[Tolunart]

and it takes 5 min to give an actual posted update. "still looking into this, complex problem, will let you know whats going on"

 

Which serves absolutely no purpose except to stir up another round of "they haven't fixed it yet? RAGE!!!!" posts.

[MandFlurry]

your assumption would be very wrong. I am a manager that has to work no matter what if there is a need. I have spent christmas week on 24 hour call that resulted in 40 hrs regular pay and 50 OT. adults have responsibilities that sometimes prohibit them from getting weeks off on the holidays. My time in the Army didnt always get holidays off. so be it. I dont for a second think that all employees of bioware are hourly employees. just because they have production delayed for holiday time off does not mean their game is shut off.

 

That's what idiots don't get. The Fact that EAWare ppl are most likely working through the Christmas season and are not keeping us informed enough and working enough it seems as other MMOs do. I hate the idiots that say that, "oh give them time, their on Christmas break, give them time". That's either some of the biggest Bunk i've heard. All Major MMOs that i know of have staff working 24hrs a days 7 days a week. This I know because when MMOs that I have played including this 1 have had workers working through every holiday, every hour. And when thing have gone wrong the Major Devs are either working or on call 24/7.

 

I remember when this game had employees work around 24/7. So all this bs about giving the Major employees like the Devs, the QAs and Community team having time off for Christmas and giving them a break is just Horse(bleep). Like I said this game at least used to have ppl working 24/7, and if their not they should be fired, because Fact is this type of job requires ppl to be fully dedicated to their jobs first, and if their not willing to put certain Jobs like this their full attention then their usually Not hired or are later fired.

 

I've been around the Military and Jobs that you have to be totaly dedicated to, and if ur not, then just keeping and don't look back. No, some fools are just making up a false excuse about all of the EAWare team having Christmas off because these kinds of jobs only allow a few employees at a time to take a vacation, and if something like all this Server problems are happening they are called up to come back and do do their jobs, unless this MMO has changed.

 

Whatever is going on, this is Very Bad PR.

Edited January 6, 2015 by MandFlurry

[BrianDavion]

so you can provide an example of a time the devs EVER put out a major hotifx over the holiday period?

 

does Bioware have people working over christmas? yeah GMs and the like who help people with mild issues. the guys writing the code? they're off. maybe not ALL of em but a decent sized chunk of em.

[OwenBrooks]

so you can provide an example of a time the devs EVER put out a major hotifx over the holiday period?

 

This is where (in my opinion) they goofed releasing a major expansion just before a holiday, its all good on the PTS so it will be fine, historically they have seen some nasty bugs introduced on live yet not seen on the PTS, and for a major expansion they should have allowed for this, they took a gamble and lost.

 

I myself don't have any major playing issues, but it is apparent that issues exist that need addressing, as people happy before 3.0, now not so happy.

 

My best hope is they learn from this and allow themselves room to target issues without worrying all their staff has approved leave. ( we do not know they aren't working on this at present, some things aren't a 5 second fix )

 

I am expecting a patch to start (read start) addressing issues not before 13 Jan 15.

 

Edit - Some people posting will have non 3.0 things occurring but unfortunately they will be blaming 3.0 as well, when its not likely to be 3.0

 

Why some posts will turn up like http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7923739&postcount=364 glad they found the issue affecting them and didn't sit waiting for a patch. ( Please don't run out and buy a router ).

Edited January 6, 2015 by OwenBrooks

[Vicen]

If it's not fixed a by the time my sub is up (around the 24th I believe) I will un sub for quite awhile...It's really unacceptable to pay 15 bucks a month for a subpar gaming experience!

[OwenBrooks]

If it's not fixed a by the time my sub is up (around the 24th I believe) I will un sub for quite awhile...It's really unacceptable to pay 15 bucks a month for a subpar gaming experience!

 

I agree , and that is what the consumer makes decisions on every day, every ones experience is different and only they can decide what is and isn't acceptable to them, Its how the world operates.

 

Hence why people actually play other MMOs out there ( I know that is hard to comprehend ) Mind if City of Heroes was still running , that is where I would mostly be still I think. (Damn you NCSoft)

 

I have lifetime subs for example to Star Trek and Champions Online , and the founders pack for Marvell Heroes, plus I bought ESO , and paid $250.00 towards Star Citizen.

 

They do need to earn our money, its up to them to justify it.

Edited January 6, 2015 by OwenBrooks

[Ferrnitty]

all i can say is you all need to brace for silence from the devs on Friday when nothing still will have been done about this lag/abilty delay. And their halfassed "YEAHHHHH we didnt find anything but were still looking....It would be gretat if you resubscribe and give us another month of paid beta ta look.........YEAHHHHH that would be super!" 2 weeks from now.

[Toweleeeie]

all i can say is you all need to brace for silence from the devs on Friday when nothing still will have been done about this lag/abilty delay. And their halfassed "YEAHHHHH we didnt find anything but were still looking....It would be gretat if you resubscribe and give us another month of paid beta ta look.........YEAHHHHH that would be super!" 2 weeks from now.

 

Don't forget the "free" pet and or title!

[dscount]

It will be more like... "yea we now know what the problem is, but it's going to take some time to correct the problem." IE: Please wait for 30+ days for a possible solution, but here are some additional discounts to current CM packs to make up for all the problems. LOL

 

Suggestions:

• Turn off the FOG on Rishi starter area
  
• Disable half the animations BOSS Fights are doing.. (Bulo - spinning blue circles, Rishi Dancer overhead, etc)
  
• Remove SMOKE bomb visual effects (Walkers)
  
• Remove AOE visual effects (Adds in Lurker)
  
• Remove HALF the Add's in between bosses. (Way too many ToS - before Bulo too has like 20+ pirates)
  
• Remove HALF the Resource nodes on YAVIN (Balance Archaeology 10% each color, 35% Power, 35% Arch)
  
• Remove HALF the ADD's on YAVIN - keep the moving walkers
  
• Dramatically increase INSTANCE counts (Decrease ## users per instance)
  
• Hate to say it.. maybe decrease number of cool animations we have on our characters (if it helps)
  
• Separate Command Walker to instance like TC was (Green/Red wall).
  

Edited January 6, 2015 by dscount