Does anyone else do this on GTN?

[PetFish]

Honestly, I think undercutting by one credit is just inviting bad karma and ill wishes on yourself. You're not creating any benefit for the buyer, you're just pushing in front of the line of sellers. That's the way things are done, but be a human being instead of a greedy son of a mother, and at least provide some benefit for people who buy from you.

 

So now you're wishing ill-will on others for practicing their due diligence in their market research and trying to sell what they want to sell?

 

Not only that, you're saying to "be a human being instead of a greedy son of a mother".

 

Who the hell do you think *you* are?

[calypsissmexy]

As a buyer I don't buy the 1credit undercut because its insulting. I'll make you a deal sonny, ill knock one credit off the 200,000 purchase price. Howzabout dat, eh? Nah. I know other buyers just grab from the top of the list but I check quickly and then buy. Usually.

 

Maybe not always on CM junk because nobody worked in game to get that, they just bought it and sold it. The cm gear sellers garners less (no) respect.

[Neytiri_Tsahik]

So, let me ask a question to all those who find 1-credit undercutting insulting...

 

Let's say you're out in your car, you need to fill up. You pass a petrol station and see 1,50 for a litre of juice. You continue to the next and see it for 1,49. Do you think to yourself "how insulting" and turn around? Do you do the same thing with bananas? Toilet paper? If you any of you ppl out there can answer those questions with a "yes", well, I'm sorry to say, you're lacking common sense.

 

Edit: I've figured it out. It's the only explanation that makes sense. All those claiming to be buying the more expensive, are actually not. All those complaing, they're not sellers, they're buyers. They WANT us to undercut eachother more aggressively, because they WANT the prices to drop. Any other explanation just forces me to scream at Kafka, teling him "you were wrong"...

Edited December 31, 2014 by Neytiri_Tsahik

[Beltane]

IFor the guy I'm undercutting it makes no difference whatsoever whether I did it by 1 or 1000 credits. But do you know who will notice the difference if I, and everyone else, constantly undercuts 1000+ credits? Everyone! If 100 items are listed and everyone sells his/hers for 1 credit less, cheapest item is 99 credits cheaper than the most expensive. If everyone undercuts by 1000 credits, well, do the math. I want prices to remain profitable, I don't want them to drop to below profitable.

 

Bingo.

 

I don't care when I'm undercut by 1 credit because that means prices are largely staying the same and I can just relist or wait it out and usually sell my items anyway.

 

But when I list for 40k, and the people after me list for 35k, 30k, 17k, pulling numbers out of nowhere, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard.

 

When that happens, I just wait it out. Yes, people have the right to shoot themselves in the foot by pricing randomly to "try to give buyers a good deal" or whatever, but I'll never understand it.

 

(Btw, if you price your items drastically cheaper, what you view as helping poor people is probably just putting more money in the pockets of crafters & resellers. I buy and relist whenever it's profitable to do so. Nothing immoral about it... it's a game, and money is needed to play the game.)

 

There seems to be this really odd rift in threads like this between the people who want to make money and the people who feel they're making some sort of hipster statement by saying they don't want to make credits and aren't greedy.

 

 

 

 

Serious question... how many of you who are saying you won't buy items undercut by 1 credit crafters/serious GTN sellers?

 

There seem to be unwritten rules among crafters, at least on my server. Only list a few at a time, list so yours are cheapest, relist however many times you want. If you want to sit on the GTN terminal relisting your augs every 10 minutes, more power to you. More effort = more credits. Waiting it out is profitable too. Anyway, I don't get annoyed at fellow crafters who undercut by 1 credit, I get annoyed at people who take a bizarre moral stance and intentionally tank the market.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Beltane

[calypsissmexy]

So, let me ask a question to all those who find 1-credit undercutting insulting...

 

Let's say you're out in your car, you need to fill up. You pass a petrol station and see 1,50 for a litre of juice. You continue to the next and see it for 1,49. Do you think to yourself "how insulting" and turn around? Do you do the same thing with bananas? Toilet paper? If you any of you ppl out there can answer those questions with a "yes", well, I'm sorry to say, you're lacking common sense.

 

Edit: I've figured it out. It's the only explanation that makes sense. All those claiming to be buying the more expensive, are actually not. All those complaing, they're not sellers, they're buyers. They WANT us to undercut eachother more aggressively, because they WANT the prices to drop. Any other explanation just forces me to scream at Kafka, teling him "you were wrong"...

 

I think it's telling that you find it so hard to believe.

 

Also, there's a huge difference between 1 cent off a 200 cent gallon of gas and 1 credit off a 200,000 credit item. If the item is 200 credits and I'm buying 50 or 100 of them, 1 credit matters. If the item is 200k and I'm buying 1 or 2, a single credit is a cheap manipulation, not an actual discount.

 

^^^edit: I am a crafter and everyday I see other crafters charging 100 times what the item cost to produce. The endgame market may be stable but lowbie gear is insanely overpriced (except maybe dyes)

Edited December 31, 2014 by calypsissmexy

[Beltane]

a single credit is a cheap manipulation, not an actual discount.

 

It's usually not as nefarious as you seem to think.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that people are lazy. The majority of people playing this game don't care one wit how much money someone selling an item is making so long as they feel the price is fair for them to pay. They're going to sort by cheapest, buy the cheapest (probably without comparing prices or even looking at the seller's name!) and move on.

 

Listing so your items are the first on the chart is just good business, not some weird manipulation.

 

That's part of the 'job' of being a MMO crafter. List for cheapest, relist if you're undercut or they don't sell. Rinse and repeat. Nobody's being hurt by 1 credit undercutters, nobody at all.

 

And I say this as someone who lists for 100 credits cheaper and not 1. The 1 credits still don't bother me!

Edited December 31, 2014 by Beltane

[Nuffmeister]

So, let me ask a question to all those who find 1-credit undercutting insulting...

 

Let's say you're out in your car, you need to fill up. You pass a petrol station and see 1,50 for a litre of juice. You continue to the next and see it for 1,49. Do you think to yourself "how insulting" and turn around? Do you do the same thing with bananas? Toilet paper? If you any of you ppl out there can answer those questions with a "yes", well, I'm sorry to say, you're lacking common sense.

 

Edit: I've figured it out. It's the only explanation that makes sense. All those claiming to be buying the more expensive, are actually not. All those complaing, they're not sellers, they're buyers. They WANT us to undercut eachother more aggressively, because they WANT the prices to drop. Any other explanation just forces me to scream at Kafka, teling him "you were wrong"...

 

If i'm out in my car and I see a cheaper petrol price i'll go to it and fill up. I just used "real life money" to pay for it.

 

If I prefer a certain brand of toilet paper I will buy it even if it is pricier than the cheapest because I prefer the quality of that brand. Again, "real life money" was used.

 

If I buy the pricier in game item for 1 credit more because I feel like it, I just used "make believe money" to pay for it. That "make believe money" is not real, and unless i'm a gold seller it has absolutely no effect on any real life transaction I will ever make.

[calypsissmexy]

Re: Beltane,

 

I shop how I shop first of all. I can't help if joe blow doesn't think about the fact that the only reason the first page is full of 49,999 is because the seller wants to be 1st in the list but still earn the same as the guy who priced at 50k first.

 

But that absolutely is a manipulation. Of the customer, and of the sorting system. And just because "that's how business is done" doesn't mean I as the buyer have to bow to that. If a seller doesn't offer a significant discount but only prices for positioning, I don't buy from them. Period. I'm obviously not typical in this. But it's my choice and I think it's the only right choice if you think it through. Unless you're a business major and think rewarding manipulation is "just good business. "

Edited December 31, 2014 by calypsissmexy

[Neytiri_Tsahik]

It doesn't really matter anyhow. There are always two sides of a coin, always at least two opinions on a matter. And most of the time, most of the one, will have difficulties understanding the other. As long as everything stays civil, amything can be discussed.

 

I believe I lost sight of that and I wish to apologize.

 

Bottom line: we're all going to continue trading as we see fit, and we should allow others to do the same, if for nothing else than for the sake of civility.

[Nuffmeister]

It doesn't really matter anyhow. There are always two sides of a coin, always at least two opinions on a matter. And most of the time, most of the one, will have difficulties understanding the other. As long as everything stays civil, amything can be discussed.

 

I believe I lost sight of that and I wish to apologize.

 

Bottom line: we're all going to continue trading as we see fit, and we should allow others to do the same, if for nothing else than for the sake of civility.

 

I concur with your sentiments and also wish to apologise if my reply came off as snarky.

 

End of the day it's just a game and people will play it as they see fit and that's just as it should be.

 

Best of luck to you in your trade endeavors.

[calypsissmexy]

Arguing on the internet blows. Everyone assumes everyone else is an idiot. No one ever backs down because the argument is the only thing people know about them, so if you appear to lose, that's all strangers on the internet know about you.

 

And yeah, IRL much of this would come down to (and fairly quickly), You play how you wanna play, mate, and lets all have fun.

[branmakmuffin]

Also, there's a huge difference between 1 cent off a 200 cent gallon of gas and 1 credit off a 200,000 credit item. If the item is 200 credits and I'm buying 50 or 100 of them, 1 credit matters. If the item is 200k and I'm buying 1 or 2, a single credit is a cheap manipulation, not an actual discount.

How is it a "cheap manipulation?" If the seller were somehow tricking you into paying more than his or her listed price, that would be a "cheap manipulation."

 

If you want an item and there are 2, 1 or 50,000 and the other for 49,999, you're certainly not losing anything by paying 49,999. For whatever reason, you simply find it annoying.

[calypsissmexy]

How is it a "cheap manipulation?" If the seller were somehow tricking you into paying more than his or her listed price, that would be a "cheap manipulation."

 

If you want an item and there are 2, 1 or 50,000 and the other for 49,999, you're certainly not losing anything by paying 49,999. For whatever reason, you simply find it annoying.

 

Seriously? Dropping price by 1 credit doesn't make it clear that it is in fact a cheap manip? If you really wanted to sell at the same price, in a fair and honorable way, you'd sell at the exact same price, but instead you drop 1 cred so you can be the first in the list. that's a manip of the system and the buyers. And it's cheap as hell cause it only costs you a credit.

 

Oh, btw, you guys talking "reasonable market price". Go to Pricewatch, or whatever is the pc part price comparison site of the month, and see that "market price" varies up to $50-75 on vid cards and such. The idea that you can set market price at 50 and rely on that defies real world economics.

 

edit p.s. you're losing part of your soul, a teensie weensie bit of it, because this is a game, but a part none-the-less. (I said teensie weensie, so proabably not worth worrying about...but still)

Edited December 31, 2014 by calypsissmexy

[Khevar]

edit p.s. you're losing part of your soul, a teensie weensie bit of it, because this is a game, but a part none-the-less.

This, in my personal opinion, is absurdly ridiculous.

 

Do you also see kids pretending to smoke candy cigarettes and start lecturing them about the evils of big tobacco?

 

Or quote fair practice laws to a family playing Monopoly?

Edited December 31, 2014 by Khevar

[Aetes]

Seriously? Dropping price by 1 credit doesn't make it clear that it is in fact a cheap manip? If you really wanted to sell at the same price, in a fair and honorable way, you'd sell at the exact same price, but instead you drop 1 cred so you can be the first in the list. that's a manip of the system and the buyers. And it's cheap as hell cause it only costs you a credit.

 

Oh, btw, you guys talking "reasonable market price". Go to Pricewatch, or whatever is the pc part price comparison site of the month, and see that "market price" varies up to $50-75 on vid cards and such. The idea that you can set market price at 50 and rely on that defies real world economics.

 

edit p.s. you're losing part of your soul, a teensie weensie bit of it, because this is a game, but a part none-the-less. (I said teensie weensie, so proabably not worth worrying about...but still)

 

I do 1 credit drops and it is simply because I want to be number 1 on the list (even if only for a short while until I am undercut by 1 credit) the sad truth of it is thus, (and no amount of arguing or nonsense will change the facts) drop the price by 1 credit and your item sells faster. 1 credit is still cheaper and the majority of people sort by lowest price. So for someone like me who sells a lot of items on a daily basis and wants a fast turnover so that I can list more items, the 9 key is my best friend.

 

Am I attempting to manipulate? Not really, its the buyers habits that are forcing me into this action. I want my items to be the most attractive to buyers, if they started to sort by time I would drop the time from 2 days and ignore the price to try and get back to the top.

[calypsissmexy]

I do 1 credit drops and it is simply because I want to be number 1 on the list (even if only for a short while until I am undercut by 1 credit) the sad truth of it is thus, (and no amount of arguing or nonsense will change the facts) drop the price by 1 credit and your item sells faster. 1 credit is still cheaper and the majority of people sort by lowest price. So for someone like me who sells a lot of items on a daily basis and wants a fast turnover so that I can list more items, the 9 key is my best friend.

 

Am I attempting to manipulate? Not really, its the buyers habits that are forcing me into this action. I want my items to be the most attractive to buyers, if they started to sort by time I would drop the time from 2 days and ignore the price to try and get back to the top.

 

Everyone's got a rationalization. Play how you like mate. Have fun.

[Aetes]

Everyone's got a rationalization. Play how you like mate. Have fun.

 

Are you alluding that my true motivation is not to be at the top of the list?

 

I do admit I sometimes manipulate the markets to crush competition, I have the cash to be able to sell at less than cost for a short while in an attempt to deter other people from selling my bread and butter items at a reduced rate. But I assure you that is more than a 1 credit drop.

[Exquisitr]

I tend to always buy the lowest price regardless of who's selling what. The only exception is if I need only 1-4 of an item and the group size is higher. If that's the case, I'll buy somewhat more expensive items.

 

I have two ways of dealing with serious undercutters. First, sometimes sellers are just peeps with no real business acumen and they're just ditching item(s) with little thought to their value. These folks sell very low and just want to sell it without much if any profit. These types get discouraged if you undercut them, they don't want their item(s) returned and you can drive them off the market pretty easily. You can either buy up their goods or simply undercut by a credit or two if you don't mind a low profit margin. They don't have the stomach for price wars, but they sell below cost, and don't really care about profit. Sometimes they're just leveling crafting for one item.

 

Second, some sellers are very aggressive with their pricing and rely on crits to make profit. For these I'll either post at my usual price and wait for their stock to clear, or I'll engage in a little GTN foreplay if I've been lucky with my own crits or have a stockpile. By that I mean I'll undercut them, too. You can usually tell who the more serious GTN hounds are as they're posting under you several times per day.

 

Btw, I'm not a serious seller. I truly just dabble and make enough to enjoy the finer things in game.

[calypsissmexy]

Are you alluding that my true motivation is not to be at the top of the list?

 

I do admit I sometimes manipulate the markets to crush competition, I have the cash to be able to sell at less than cost for a short while in an attempt to deter other people from selling my bread and butter items at a reduced rate. But I assure you that is more than a 1 credit drop.

 

what do you need me to say? Clearly you've got a philosophy that works for you. Enjoy it.

[Beltane]

Re: Beltane,

 

I shop how I shop first of all. I can't help if joe blow doesn't think about the fact that the only reason the first page is full of 49,999 is because the seller wants to be 1st in the list but still earn the same as the guy who priced at 50k first.

 

But that absolutely is a manipulation. Of the customer, and of the sorting system. And just because "that's how business is done" doesn't mean I as the buyer have to bow to that. If a seller doesn't offer a significant discount but only prices for positioning, I don't buy from them. Period. I'm obviously not typical in this. But it's my choice and I think it's the only right choice if you think it through. Unless you're a business major and think rewarding manipulation is "just good business. "

 

Yes, you can make up scenarios about how evil it is for people to sell their items in an MMO all you want. But that doesn't make it a fact that pricing items so they appear first on the list is "manipulative."

 

I usually have 7 pages going on the GTN every day. If I'm undercut, I'm undercut. I won't sell my items as long as there are items priced lower than mine--that's just a fact. Yes, some misguided white knight might occasionally buy a more expensive item, but I can safely say it has only happened to my items a handful of times over the course of 3 years. It doesn't matter if they're undercut by 1 credit or 100k credits, they won't move til either the lower priced ones move or I relist so that I'm lowest.

 

So, it's immoral and makes you lose your soul to want to sell your items.

 

You didn't answer if you're a high volume seller on the GTN or not. I feel like your perspective would be different if you were. Because from where I and many other crafters are sitting, being undercut by 1 credit is far preferable than having people take massive chunks out of the going price of an item. If I have to relist to be lower than the guy who undercut me by 1 credit, I'll be selling it for virtually the same price. If someone undercuts me by 5k because they think it's "fair" I'd be losing out on potential profits by relisting so I'm lowest.

 

Still not sure how making sure your items are seen first is manipulative in any sense of the word. I could see you arguing that the seller who was undercut by 1 credit is being harmed somehow (even though I disagree) but to say the customer is being harmed is really a stretch.

 

Like... when I list on the GTN I'm there to squeeze every credit I can from a sale, because I have no investment in whoever is buying it. If someone buys my cheap item, they might just relist it for a higher price (which is fine, but isn't "helping the poor" like people seem to think). I give away expensive items like candy to people I actually know in the game. GTN is for money, socializing is for helping people. If you want to try to help people on the GTN that's fine, but it's a gamble who you're actually helping or not.

 

I mean, how deep do you do your research before buying? Maybe the person who was undercut by 1 credit undercut the previous seller by 1 credit, and they pulled their items. It's actually a more common scenario than you think. If you're a crafter you tend to learn the names of your competition. I have pulled all my listings if I get undercut by several people in a row before.

[calypsissmexy]

^^^ Sure.

[Kahiel]

your crazy

 

*You're* crazy.

[Tyrloch]

So, for those who hate undercutting; do you act the same way in the real world? If you come across 2 gas stations and one is 1¢ cheaper per gallon, do you go buy the more expensive since the other station is just a bunch of evil under-cutters?

 

Do you go to the more expensive stores and buy the more expensive items (even for the same item) simply because you don't want to support those economy ruining under-cutters?

 

Albertsons has Jiff for 1.09. Kroger has it for .99. Kroger is just a bunch of cheap a-- undercutters... I'm going to buy my peanut butter at Albertsons!

 

???

[calypsissmexy]

So, for those who hate undercutting; do you act the same way in the real world? If you come across 2 gas stations and one is 1¢ cheaper per gallon, do you go buy the more expensive since the other station is just a bunch of evil under-cutters?

 

Do you go to the more expensive stores and buy the more expensive items (even for the same item) simply because you don't want to support those economy ruining under-cutters?

 

Albertsons has Jiff for 1.09. Kroger has it for .99. Kroger is just a bunch of cheap a-- undercutters... I'm going to buy my peanut butter at Albertsons!

 

???

 

Let's do the strawman dance. Ba-da-bump ba-da-bump mmm-tsss

(if I have to explain why it's a strawman, you are not capable of having this argument) Is that mean? It's just a fact. If you cannot see that you are strawmanning....a system where all prices are right in front of you, vs a store where you only have one retailer's prices in front of you, and gas for travel to the other retailer is a factor, etc etc

Edited December 31, 2014 by calypsissmexy

[calypsissmexy]

Srsly, the only reasonable analogous real world examples are online price comparison sites. And those you would have to know that one knew the prices of the other. Which they probably did. So if I saw a video card for $399.99 cents, then I saw another site with it for $399.98, you're damn well right I would buy the 1 cent more expensive one, because one site, has a good price, and the other is a cheap manipulation for placing and probably has terrible service and won't send the vid card until I buy 5 other things, etc etc. Cheap manipulation is cheap manipulation. If you do it, good for you. You probably make more sales. But I won't buy from you. But so what, I'm like, .001% of the attitudes on the GTN.