Why 3.0 was a complete disaster and why this game is going under

[HaLeX]

This is part two of my series why 3.0 will be a disaster.

 

I previously said I thought class imbalance would be a massive problem. We all agreed that Sorcs, Sins, Pt's, and Juggs would be buffed. Its actually even worse than I thought. Currently PT's burst is so huge they can stunlock a healer to death in the right hands. A PT and a Sorc can melt most classes in 2-3 gcd's. PTS and Sins can't be stunned when attacking healers. The stuns are completely out of control. I see more force roots and bubble stuns all over. I have to use my cc breaker every-time or else I risk being dead. The only way to counter it is to bring tanks with you which makes it a giant zerg fest with 10 players on the screen at the same time fighting over one node and no one dying with hots and dots running on every player. Why EA though giving healers more aoe and less single target burst was a good idea I have no clue. You can't nerf and buff classes and expect everyone to switch to the FOTM to be competitive. The lag I'm getting is just unacceptable.

 

Edit : I don't think this game is going under, I just think it will never make money in its current state. It will slowly die off.

 

I've been playing this game since launch and I am thinking it's time for me to move on to a game that is willing to listen to their players. Bottom line is pvp in this game is not very fun anymore. That is the only reason I play this game is because pvp is fun. Now it's not fun. I'm not saying I'm gone, I'll wait a couple of patches and see if they can fix this mess. But if they don't, I do think I'll move on to a different game. Send my regards to whichever imbecile decided all these changes was a good idea. Give that man a bonus.

Edited December 21, 2014 by HaLeX

[MiaRB]

game is going to be just fine without you. bye bye.

[DethlaHadyn]

This is part two of my series why 3.0 will be a disaster.

hots and dots .

 

Hots and Dots.

 

Solid Gold right there.

[Dacorianton]

game is going to be just fine without you. bye bye.

 

It is so hilarious

 

when somebody points out something that is relevant and logical

 

and stupid people get up in arms to defend nonsensical standpoints which resemble piles of ****

 

this game will go under if they 1.) don't optimize their stuff...the lag is just horrid in pvp and pve, and 2.) try to at least pretend they care about class balance

[shyroman]

It is so hilarious

 

when somebody points out something that is relevant and logical

 

and stupid people get up in arms to defend nonsensical standpoints which resemble piles of ****

 

this game will go under if they 1.) don't optimize their stuff...the lag is just horrid in pvp and pve, and 2.) try to at least pretend they care about class balance

 

People have been posting these threads since the game started, but the game's still here, this patch won't be any different.

[DethlaHadyn]

When are you releasing part 3?

[Neoforcer]

Have to say part 1 was a little lacking. This game is just fine in 3.0 PT are a little to bursty but once there shoulder cannon is fixed they will be fine since there bugged atm. Sorc are still the easiest class to kill even with there dot spec. Sins hit about the same as deception and as hatred are squishy. Your problem is you cant kite any more with all the roots. What it sound like to me is you were a ok player in 2.0 and now that every thing change you cant adapt to it. I will tell you this i have been in some very epic feeling battles that are not zerg feast but drag out brawls. That are fun for every one with one side just winning by a little bit which good pvpers enjoy more then boom your dead we won. Edited December 21, 2014 by Neoforcer

[teclado]

this game is going under

 

Edit : I don't think this game is going under

Huh?

 

PTS and Sins can't be stunned when attacking healers.

What? They can't be stunned when attacking healers? WHY DIDN"T ANYBODY TELL ME?!?!

Edited December 21, 2014 by teclado

[madtycoon]

I previously said I thought class imbalance would be a massive problem. We all agreed that Sorcs, Sins, Pt's, and Juggs would be buffed. Its actually even worse than I thought. Currently PT's burst is so huge they can stunlock a healer to death in the right hands. A PT and a Sorc can melt most classes in 2-3 gcd's. PTS and Sins can't be stunned when attacking healers. The stuns are completely out of control. I see more force roots and bubble stuns all over. I have to use my cc breaker every-time or else I risk being dead. The only way to counter it is to bring tanks with you which makes it a giant zerg fest with 10 players on the screen at the same time fighting over one node and no one dying with hots and dots running on every player. Why EA though giving healers more aoe and less single target burst was a good idea I have no clue. You can't nerf and buff classes and expect everyone to switch to the FOTM to be competitive. The lag I'm getting is just unacceptable.

 

Getting low enough where you have to blow all your defensives just to recover, because you got stunned at 100% with hots or a shield, etc. on from a PT is beyond stupid. But its always basically been like that. PT and dps sorcs madness have always been the most faceroll classes in the game. Its also bugged. Hopefully they will be fixed?

 

Force roots and bubble stuns would be 100% fine if cleanse actually removed all debuffs on that target or had a shorter cooldown for healers. Also if all types of cleanse was universal for all healers. The only reason people sit roots and bubble stuns around any competent sorc is either multiple people are getting hit at once or they had two debuffs on them prior. All these new 5% bonus damage, damage reduction, etc. debuffs get applied too easily and are all over the place. Sorry that people have to sit rooted for a couple seconds. Roots need to be in the game so people can peel other people, though the root on knockback for sorcs and sins is too short of a cooldown imo.

 

Having to use your CC break at high health or when your teammate is high health just because damage/crit chains are mostly random has always been a problem here. SWTOR pvp has always most of the time been a giant zergfest/cluster****. At least when teams are close to even.

 

Why do they give healers more smart heal aoe healing instead of single target burst healing? Because the player base is bad and they have to make it easy. How many healers don't click on their party frames? How many healers actually pillar hump? How many healers have you ever seen fake cast? They have to make healing mostly instant, channels and smart heal aoe w/a tunnel health bars mentality, because if it actually required more skill to play a healer, very few people that play this game would be able to play one.

 

They'll eventually fix the 3.0 fps drops. Pretty sure they're aware of it and are working on it.

[madtycoon]

What? They can't be stunned when attacking healers? WHY DIDN"T ANYBODY TELL ME?!?!

 

He's probably talking about kolto break or bugged damage shoulder cannon? and the new deflection immunity, longer lasting resilience. That forcing break with stun is a waste of a global in some cases now. Where before you could get break with stun then mez after. I don't see it personally. Its even easier now for merc and sorc healers to mez CC with instant talents/reduced cooldowns. But they have knockbacks that can be used during deflection. I guess its harder on operatives now? tendo blast root or whatever its called and roll maybe? I don't play one.

 

Unless he's talking about peeling these two classes off a healer, which in that case I agree. It is a lot more difficult if the sin is specced for faceroll uptime or the PT has the stupid hydraulic talents.

Edited December 21, 2014 by madtycoon

[Pantokratorx]

Anyone who says pvp is fine at the moment, obviously hasnt played Sent/Mara this patch. Its aweful. You die faster than any other class, but you are melee as well with ****** DCDs compared to other melee, dmg is okay but not higher than any other class. There is just no incentive to bring Sent/Mara to any PvP environment.

That says something about balance when a whole class is garbage. You can defend your point by saying, you have maras and you are doing fine or your friend or some guy you saw in WZ did well with it, but I will say that you are 1% and congratulation, you are pro level. Or the stars aligned and the team had excellent healers/tanks. BUT a class shouldnt be designed around that or that only the 1% has fun with it. Im not even sure if its 1% or less. At the moment there are some classes that do well and a few that are absolutely garbage, and incredible hard to have fun with in wz. That needs to be fixed asap.

Also what I find extremely frustrating is the lack of communication from BW. Inbalances would be fine until they say: hey hang in there, we are aware of it and we will be releasing a balance patch in X and Y days, but NO. There is not a single Dev post about class balance and thats just unacceptable and poor game support.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Pantokratorx

[KainrycKarr]

PT's can be stunned. So can Sorcs. lol?

[Tonev]

The guy has a valid point, hell I just cancelled due to the frustration of having being CCed and having 2 Pts Vanguards blasting the **** out of me several times. I was CCed and before I came out of it, I was dead "did I mention I have full expertise, with about 54k health on my Juggernaut?".

 

I don't know, the bracketing, bolster and dynamic of PvP in this game is horrible. They really need to do something and fast or they will be leaking subs like a sponge in these next and coming months.

 

The op is right and I can't wait to see what part three entails.

 

Don't worry about the trolls here, it's a learned behaviour that all the cool kids have picked up "Daddy may have told them to take out the garbage today.".

 

Anyone who says pvp is fine at the moment, obviously hasnt played Sent/Mara this patch. Its aweful. You die faster than any other class, but you are melee as well with ****** DCDs compared to other melee, dmg is okay but not higher than any other class. There is just no incentive to bring Sent/Mara to any PvP environment.

That says something about balance when a whole class is garbage. You can defend your point by saying, you have maras and you are doing fine or your friend or some guy you saw in WZ did well with it, but I will say that you are 1% and congratulation, you are pro level. Or the stars aligned and the team had excellent healers/tanks. BUT a class shouldnt be designed around that or that only the 1% has fun with it. Im not even sure if its 1% or less. At the moment there are some classes that do well and a few that are absolutely garbage, and incredible hard to have fun with in wz. That needs to be fixed asap.

Also what I find extremely frustrating is the lack of communication from BW. Inbalances would be fine until they say: hey hang in there, we are aware of it and we will be releasing a balance patch in X and Y days, but NO. There is not a single Dev post about class balance and thats just unacceptable and poor game support.

 

Again, the devs asked about changing the class and there was a whole host of people vouching that Sentinels and Marauders didn't need new changes on PTS. I made a thread about this and asked about the quality of players giving true and honest feed back for the class (had people laughing on PTS about how they were going to own with Sins and Sorcs "especially Sins", on test. I play a Vanguard and while our damage was high as hell on the test server, the devs had this information in their hands, one even mentioned that the changes were not based around 1 vs 1 fights but team fights and they would adjust as needed.", What it boils down to, they didn't and won't listen and frankly don't give 2 ****s about PvP balance in this game.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Tonev

[Yezzan]

Also what I find extremely frustrating is the lack of communication from BW. Inbalances would be fine until they say: hey hang in there, we are aware of it and we will be releasing a balance patch in X and Y days, but NO. There is not a single Dev post about class balance and thats just unacceptable and poor game support.

 

Balance is a subjective test. The classes and skills attributed to them were for specific reasons. Which means that in some situations one class will outshine another. The devs are not concerned about whether one class is OP because you can point on a specific situation where they appeared to be so.

 

There are many facets of the game where the viability of each class must be scrutinized and their effectiveness brought into question.

 

Balance is not just about PvP; it's across the board. How well is the class doing in solo, ops, group and PvP content? Don't think that the devs aren't watching and listening. They don't respond because there is nothing to respond to. If something is broken they will acknowledge it issue and let you know. I do believe they said something about Juggs having too much rage....

 

If the class is fulfilling it's purpose in it's respective disciple then it's not OP. I see someone crying for AoE ability for a single target spec over on another thread just because he needs stronger AoE in ranked! Playing a freaking AoE spec/Class instead of complaining. It's that simple.

 

Balance doesn't mean fairness. In case we got that one twisted.

[CrazyOldMystic]

Disaster umm I think you think its a disaster but I think everyone has their point of view. CC out of control its funny how people only start complaining about cc when its not troopers/bounty hunters that are the only ones getting stunlocked. Then suddenly its a out of control problem funny how that works.

 

Disaster I think not. For the first time since I made my vanguard a long time ago, I am enjoying playing my vanguard, because of the changes they made with Tactics. So I like pieces of 3.0. I said this in another thread where it was quietly buried because people fear this truth. Before 3.0 You would have to be a bad player to even be remotely concerned about sorcs and sages. You simply lit them up and watched them go boom. Now You have to actually take note to what they are doing. The only exception to this was when they were healing before 3.0. Its not like they made them impossible to kill.

 

My point of view is simply I got Vanguard/ and commando enjoying them both. I got Jugg and Guardian enjoying them both. So maybe its a little off but I would not say a complete disaster.

 

The only thing that was a disaster with 3.0 was the lag increase and abilities getting stuck and not kicking off when you go to use them.

[ThirdDementor]

I might have been inclined to take this thread more seriously if this wasn't the 5720182410823412309th time someone predicted the doom of SWTOR.

[Pathlight-]

This is part two of my series why 3.0 will be a disaster.

 

I previously said I thought class imbalance would be a massive problem. We all agreed that Sorcs, Sins, Pt's, and Juggs would be buffed. Its actually even worse than I thought. Currently PT's burst is so huge they can stunlock a healer to death in the right hands. A PT and a Sorc can melt most classes in 2-3 gcd's. PTS and Sins can't be stunned when attacking healers. The stuns are completely out of control. I see more force roots and bubble stuns all over. I have to use my cc breaker every-time or else I risk being dead. The only way to counter it is to bring tanks with you which makes it a giant zerg fest with 10 players on the screen at the same time fighting over one node and no one dying with hots and dots running on every player. Why EA though giving healers more aoe and less single target burst was a good idea I have no clue. You can't nerf and buff classes and expect everyone to switch to the FOTM to be competitive. The lag I'm getting is just unacceptable.

 

Edit : I don't think this game is going under, I just think it will never make money in its current state. It will slowly die off.

 

 

I've been playing this game since launch and I am thinking it's time for me to move on to a game that is willing to listen to their players. Bottom line is pvp in this game is not very fun anymore. That is the only reason I play this game is because pvp is fun. Now it's not fun. I'm not saying I'm gone, I'll wait a couple of patches and see if they can fix this mess. But if they don't, I do think I'll move on to a different game. Send my regards to whichever imbecile decided all these changes was a good idea. Give that man a bonus.

 

I agree with everything you said.

 

I'm just not sure which game to move to.

 

Any advice?

[AlrikFassbauer]

When are you releasing part 3?

 

Probably after the game is gone - as an retrospective.

 

but once there shoulder cannon is fixed they will be fine since there bugged atm.

 

When exactly will this be ?

 

The devs acknowlefdghed in the 3.0 patch notes that OP healers were too good. And that was a LOOOOOONG time after they had initiated this "being too good".

 

I will tell you this i have been in some very epic feeling battles that are not zerg feast but drag out brawls. That are fun for every one with one side just winning by a little bit which good pvpers enjoy more then boom your dead we won.

 

Then you are in the wrong bracket.

 

It is a lot more difficult if the sin is specced for faceroll uptime or the PT has the stupid hydraulic talents.

 

What if both become FOTM ? Will professional / hardcore players rejoice because of the new level of difficulty in combat ?

 

Balance is a subjective test. The classes and skills attributed to them were for specific reasons. Which means that in some situations one class will outshine another. The devs are not concerned about whether one class is OP because you can point on a specific situation where they appeared to be so.

 

There are many facets of the game where the viability of each class must be scrutinized and their effectiveness brought into question.

 

Balance is not just about PvP; it's across the board. How well is the class doing in solo, ops, group and PvP content? Don't think that the devs aren't watching and listening. They don't respond because there is nothing to respond to. If something is broken they will acknowledge it issue and let you know. I do believe they said something about Juggs having too much rage....

 

If the class is fulfilling it's purpose in it's respective disciple then it's not OP. I see someone crying for AoE ability for a single target spec over on another thread just because he needs stronger AoE in ranked! Playing a freaking AoE spec/Class instead of complaining. It's that simple.

 

Balance doesn't mean fairness. In case we got that one twisted.

 

One of the MAIN problems in SWTOR balancing is that one factor is completely left out :

 

Psychology.

 

Balanmcing is about Psychology, too.

 

Let's take the Shadow, for example : People see & experience its insane bust, itts stealth - and se,, after getting killed oh so oftn, "this class is OP !"

What they DO NOT see is -. AFTER this burst, this class is relatively squishy.

 

What BOTH do not see this !squishyness" are :

- Shadow / Assassin players, who consciously WANT TO BE OP

- Players who get killed oh so often, because they have only 1-2 chars and are not interested in playing Shadows at all - and OF COURSE no-one tells them how relatively squishy the Sdhadow Assassin is - especially Shadow / Assassin player WILL NOT tell this, because leaking this special kind of information would be a severe breach in their OPness or at least the image of OPness they have created !

 

So, information like "how to beat an Shadow / Assassin" is being downplayed or even silenced to death, because

 

- admitting that one class actually HAS some "squishy points" isn't manly - no real man will admit that he has "weak spots" !

 

- admitting that a class has some "weak spots" detracts very much from the IMAGE of power and of Opness people want to keep upright for bragging reasons. Which means that if you admit that your class has some "squishy points", then you just can't brag that much with this class anymore.

 

And bragging is something some people very much love to do.

 

And all of this is pure Psychology.

 

What's also Psychology, is the creating of FOTM classes by words being spread on these forums here.

 

If people believe that one certain class is OP, they ALL want to play this class, BECAUSE it is OP !

Which results in class stacking.

 

And class stacking isn't much fun at all, I believe that everyone here knows this.

 

Hence my suggestion that the MatchMaker should avoid class stacking at all costs.

Because in my experience, the games with an variety of classes were most fun;

most UNfun were those matches with class stacking.

 

Imho.

Edited December 21, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Adovir]

It is so hilarious

 

when somebody points out something that is relevant and logical

 

and stupid people get up in arms to defend nonsensical standpoints which resemble piles of ****

 

this game will go under if they 1.) don't optimize their stuff...the lag is just horrid in pvp and pve, and 2.) try to at least pretend they care about class balance

 

Learn the difference in lag and bad frame rate, lag is your internet problem because you have a very slow connection, I played on eu servers from the us with a 1mb connection and I rarely had that much lag. Frame rate on the other hand looks like lag but isn't, and is caused by 1 of 2 things, either you have a ****** and slow computer that needs upgrades or the optimization on the game is bad/not for your computer/parts.

 

Take for example lords of the fallen. This game is so horribly optimized for anything that wasn't made by NVIDIA that you can't get over 7fps, that is bad optimization. Swtor could use a bit of optimizing but if you don't try and push your computer on the highest graphics you can do well