The new Ops are just too hard!

[jade_de_aguilera]

I hope the new content is the new standard in how Operations are rolled out (albeit with better QA?) and the semi-casual player finally has a reason to want to try to learn how to handle mechanics.

 

prior to 2.0 pugs would wipe on fabricator in kp and pylons and soa in ev. Post 2.0 many many many people could not even handle HM EC, don't even think about NM EC. These are mechanic based fights and show an obvious pattern.

I just hope they don't nerf any of it

 

+1

:cool:

[Shoraan]

Sorry but there's more to these ops than just learning mechanics, there's HM/NiM style co-ordination checks where you got to make sure your entire group is in the right place at the right time otherwise you wipe (like as someone mentioned the walkers burn phase).

 

Previous ops have been pugable because it's easier to co-ordinate one or two people in them to pass the mechanics like TFB on operator knowing who's where on which colour or draxus in DF as long as you got a couple who actually use their interrupts on the corrupters and cover back the rest of your group can faceroll (even on HM).

 

In these ops as they stand at the moment you cannot carry the sort of player that ignores mechanics expecting to tank n spank the boss, which probably account of 90% of the group finder queuers.

 

I think this is the key point. (Emphasis mine)

 

I think of myself as a casual raider - mainly due to not being able to guarantee I can be there at a set time for my guild's raid groups, so I have to resort to PUGs - with lots of SM and a few HM runs in PUGs and very few runs with a guild.

 

I have not yet tried the two new ops, because I keep hearing how difficult they are regarding mechanics. If I understand correctly, for many bosses it's required that the whole group stands at the right place at the right time and does the right things.

 

For a pug group without voice comm that's like picking 11 random semi-professional soccer placers and sending them onto the field with a short briefing before the match but no talking during the game.

 

Add to that the high probability of a few individuals leaving after one or two wipes and the night is over before it really began. If you're really unlucky you downed the first boss and are now on lockout for the rest of the weeks and can't join other PUG groups that are starting at the first boss.

 

I really like mechanics in a fight. they make it more interesting than tank and spank. But in SM they shouldn't require 100% of the group to do 100% right.

I consider SM too hard when the group wipes, because

- a player shoots an enemy at the wrong time (see infiltration in SnV, which means that in PUGs many times one group is doing the infiltration and the other 12 people just wait), or

- an ability isn't interrupted (see Draxus, overgearing helps), or

- two random people need to be at the same spot at a specific time (I don't think this exists in SM), or

- one random person gets a token and needs to do something with it (e.g., the coins in SnV, or the pillars at Kephess)

 

I like mechanics that allow a certain number of people in the group to be carried. If someone falls or dies, because they didn't pay attention, that's ok. But if the whole group wipes, because one individual did the wrong thing... that's meh. (Of course, in HM I expect something like that.)

 

I would like to see more mini-ops like TC. These would give players, who don't want to or simply can't spend two or more hours in an ops, a chance to learn their role, practice playing in groups with more than four people, learn mechanics, etc. And all of that without fearing that the group will disband after one or two wipes.

[Shwarzchild]

 

I like mechanics that allow a certain number of people in the group to be carried. If someone falls or dies, because they didn't pay attention, that's ok. But if the whole group wipes, because one individual did the wrong thing... that's meh. (Of course, in HM I expect something like that.)

 

I would like to see more mini-ops like TC. These would give players, who don't want to or simply can't spend two or more hours in an ops, a chance to learn their role, practice playing in groups with more than four people, learn mechanics, etc. And all of that without fearing that the group will disband after one or two wipes.

 

The first paragraph I whole heartedly do not agree with. An operation is supposed to be the hardest content the game provides. No one should be given leeway to be carried in this content. Story mode or otherwise. It's a specific niche level, and if the player wants to ignore what the content is calling for then I'm not giving that person a pass. I'm not into rewarding people for not paying attention, or trying to ride my coat tails to the end. That's just not fair, and not cool. Totally disagree with the notion that content needs to be dumbed down, because we should make it ok for people to not respect the mechanics. The debate whether the mechanics are too specific I'll admit can rage on to another day. But to just allow people passes because they don't feel like paying attention, or learning something is beyond offensive to me.

 

This is an interesting idea. I was shocked at how short TC was. And, you may have a really good point here in that maybe group finder operations should be more like TC. I could see this idea working really well. +1 to the last paragraph.

[Terro_Fett]

I don't think these new ops are hard at all... on the other hand they are challenging if we compare them to the faceroll the old SM ops used to be (this includes EC SM which got nerfed twice).

 

What I see nowdays is most players jump into the new ops, expect everything to be ignored and just end it up in 1 day. That's not gonna happen, not now and not in the next month... just like happened with DF and DP when they came out (people still ignore the 1st droid on Brontes btw, even when they outlevel the ops).

 

This is something that happened to me a week ago... I joined an 8m ToS pug and they asked me: "Have you done this before?" I said yes, cleared the whole instance, something that got them surprised because they couldn't get pass Walkers... So I told them to chill that I could help out and promised we would take down at least Walkers (didn't talk about Underlurker until we got there). Taking time to explain with detail the "do and do not" after several pulls (around 5) the Walkers died and they we celebrating like no tomorrow.

 

Next step, the Underlurker... When we got there I got serious and told them the sad truth... "If you think Walkers was hard, this is worse), but even after that they were willing to give it a few shots and see how far we could make it. Again all the things explained with details and we proceeded to pull. The starting pulls were a mess, mostly because people was confused with the "cross mechanic" (which is fine, you won't get it until you see it a few times), but on the 4th pull we started getting green crosses. Now, we couldn't finish the boss because we got enrage (boss was around 30%) but it shows that even the most casual players can do something as simple as standing on the cross if they are willing to.

 

There are a few things to point out:

• Mechanic wise these fights are doable, they just need a bit of concentration and willpower (something that the avg pug lost on 2.0)

• Fights are not hard, but tweaks for SM are a good idea (small tweaks, not nerfing to the ground)

• Most pugs are spoiled... I mean fast runs with huge rewards (comms and mats)? The hell is that? If you want rewards, you should earn them not ask for them (which became quite common since 3.0 comm gear is trash, as it should).

• SM ops aren't the gateway to PvE content, that's why we have SM/HM FPs (less intensive, yet enough to make you focus), so don't ask for nerfs for ops.

 

Now if you think that these ops are incredibly hard because you can't avoid mechanics and roll your face on the keyboard with no concentration, expecting everything to be handed out... I don't know, go play with mud or something, that way you can get all the mud you want ,handed out by someone throwing a water bucket on dirt with no effort at all... also doesn't cost you $15 month, which is a plus.

 

Pretty much this. My first Walker kill was done in a PUG. We learned the fight attempt-by-attempt. Yes we had most of the group in voice chat, the couple who werent were not given any important assignments (such as running the bomb). It took us ~2 hours to kill the walkers (we one-shot first boss). We poked at Underlurker a few times and called it. The next day I reformed an 8 man PUG. Another 2 hours saw us an Underlurker kill, then we one-shot Revanites and 2-shot Revan.

 

The moral of the story is. Walkers are PUG'able, Bulo is PUG'able, Underlurker is PUG'able. But you have to WORK at these bosses. Spending a few hours on each of these fights as people learn what to do and what not to do does not seem like too much to ask for a brand new Ops IMO

[GopherLuV]

I have to agree here, the SM ops are absolutely PuG'able. The problem is how we are all viewing the pugs these days... So, let's think back and take this logically...

Pre-3.0 - PuGs got 180 comm gear for basically no effort what-so-ever (the equivalent to getting 198 comm gear in 3.0..) and I mean no effort, after 12 xp i could gear a toon in 180s in just 1 or 2 weeks with no problem... (using comms from other toons since they just poured them out at us...) So the SM content that required 156/162 gear, was mush... As people have said, you could ignore most real mechanics and just face-roll through it

After-3.0 - Ultimate comms and even Elites for that matter, aren't easy to get... You need to work a bit harder now to max 150 ultimates every week, a fair amount harder actually... On top of that, these new ops call for 186 gear minimum ( and this is biowares rating.. honestly I would take a 180 min/max over 186 comm ANY DAY!!!!) So the gear is absolutely an issue, but it's not the only one..

 

Pug groups pre-3.0 were face-rolling bosses without a care in the world, and now they have to do these pesky things called mechanics, which to many of us who run HM/NiM content, are loving honestly.. It's so awesome to have to actually TRY IN AN OPERATION!!!!! I think in time the casual player will learn that they cannot just ignore mechanics and they must read a guide on these bosses or let somebody take the time to explain the mechanics.

I'm reminded of a DF run back in 2.X where I was tanking, we wiped our asses off first pull on Draxus, so I stopped the group and said ok, let's go over this real quick, proceeding to start explaining what the mechanics were, and who should go where. About three messages into this, one or two of the people got pissed that I was "Dictating" everything and said just pull... so I gave up, I have no time for that type of person, we pulled once more, died again from Mass Aff, i bailed... If the group is not WILLING to listen to what the mechanics are, and then try different strategy and use the mechanics, it's pointless to try (and mind you this was a SM pug.... SM.... SM Draxus..... )

 

So yes, I'll agree, especially from a healing standpoint and somewhat in DPS checks, the new operations are HARD! But are they unbeatable, should they be nerfed, are they to hard for pubs, absolutely NOT! It just takes pugs who are willing to listen and figure out the mechanics, because knowing is barely half the battle in these... you need to see the bosses a few times before you really understand whats happening. And i'm sincerely hoping that the casual players out there eventually will learn that the SMs aren't the same, they need to do mechanics and they can't be carried. They need to learn to expect to wipe, possibly for an hour or more straight. And I know this can be frustrating, it's not always that fun to bash your head at Sword Squadron for 1 1/2 hours after the *********** joke the first boss is... but, if the group can keep calm, talk about what they did wrong, figure out what to do to not let that happen again, and put in more pulls, it is very possible to down any of these SM bosses...

[Shwarzchild]

I

... if the group can keep calm, talk about what they did wrong, figure out what to do to not let that happen again, and put in more pulls, it is very possible to down any of these SM bosses...

 

I truly hope that this mentality starts to filter into this community. I'd love to have actual team work take over. I'm so tired of being in groups where people just run as fast as possible and think that's the right course of action. I want the game to feel fun, and not a chore to be completed. Team work is fun in these ops. I'd love to see the return of teamwork in this game. When we just had EV, and KP, it seemed like people understood SM was for learning. Now, it's for "facerolling". I don't know how or where that attitude came from, but absolutely do I wish that it goes away at some point.

[Shoraan]

The first paragraph I whole heartedly do not agree with. An operation is supposed to be the hardest content the game provides. No one should be given leeway to be carried in this content. Story mode or otherwise. It's a specific niche level, and if the player wants to ignore what the content is calling for then I'm not giving that person a pass. I'm not into rewarding people for not paying attention, or trying to ride my coat tails to the end. That's just not fair, and not cool. Totally disagree with the notion that content needs to be dumbed down, because we should make it ok for people to not respect the mechanics. The debate whether the mechanics are too specific I'll admit can rage on to another day. But to just allow people passes because they don't feel like paying attention, or learning something is beyond offensive to me.

 

This is an interesting idea. I was shocked at how short TC was. And, you may have a really good point here in that maybe group finder operations should be more like TC. I could see this idea working really well. +1 to the last paragraph.

 

I agree that ops should be the hardest part in the game and even SM mode shouldn't be a walk in the park. However, if someone like me relies on pugs, because they can't commit to regular raid schedules, then these players who are willing to learn and listen to advice and will not just drop out even after the tenth wipe are being hindered by mechanics, because it just takes one or two people who refuse to listen or quit immediately when things go bad to end the pug group.

 

Personally, I'd rather carry one or two people than see the group disband and my effort wasted, just because the mechanics don't allow a few mistakes.

It's probably hard to find the line between carrying someone who more or less sabotages the ops by pulling to early, or not interrupting at all, or only using their standard attack and someone who misses one interrupt or shoots at the wrong thing. But as it is now, I tend to wait until most players are overgeared and mechanics are not lethal anymore (just like I can heal through one Mass Affliction). Not because I don't care about mechanics, but because a 16 man pug will in many cases see wipes and then people leave rather sooner than later.

 

Perhaps I'm just being too pessimistic. I guess I should give the new ops a few tries first before I pass judgement.

[Nkya]

I aggree; in the current time, this operations aren't fun in a PUG. Lucky you if you were able run 2 hours of tries on a boss. But most of the times, you'll spend 30 minutes total on the boss and 1h30 waiting to replace bailers.

[Shwarzchild]

I agree that ops should be the hardest part in the game and even SM mode shouldn't be a walk in the park. However, if someone like me relies on pugs, because they can't commit to regular raid schedules, then these players who are willing to learn and listen to advice and will not just drop out even after the tenth wipe are being hindered by mechanics, because it just takes one or two people who refuse to listen or quit immediately when things go bad to end the pug group.

 

Personally, I'd rather carry one or two people than see the group disband and my effort wasted, just because the mechanics don't allow a few mistakes.

It's probably hard to find the line between carrying someone who more or less sabotages the ops by pulling to early, or not interrupting at all, or only using their standard attack and someone who misses one interrupt or shoots at the wrong thing. But as it is now, I tend to wait until most players are overgeared and mechanics are not lethal anymore (just like I can heal through one Mass Affliction). Not because I don't care about mechanics, but because a 16 man pug will in many cases see wipes and then people leave rather sooner than later.

 

Perhaps I'm just being too pessimistic. I guess I should give the new ops a few tries first before I pass judgement.

 

We've gotten to a point where we've tied facerolling to pugging, and maybe I'm being idealistic in my own right here, and I think that is the ultimate problem. I hate connecting lack of time to lack of ability. It's a hard line to balance as we've discovered. But, it shouldn't be that way. End game players need to realize this, and just relax a bit. Right now, nobody is allowed to watch the cut scenes, nobody is allowed to ask questions, and so on and so forth. It's just a shame. For people that have little time I'd say the best thing to do (and this is how I operated before I found a guild to call home) is to pug ops, and if you find people who you like playing with friend them. When you have the time, and they're online then shoot them a message to see if they want to join in. I just get frustrated by people expecting these fast, quick, who cares runs.

[JouerTue]

 

Personally, I'd rather carry one or two people than see the group disband and my effort wasted, just because the mechanics don't allow a few mistakes.

 

this will happen i think, or via gear or via nerfs.

 

a 2.0 way of the new ops would be: no timing at all on walkers, no cross at all and adds doing barely any damage, while for ravagers it would be nearly zero damage from personal blue cyrcles at Q.Bulo, or adds going directly on the bomb. honestly there are quite simple mechanics, nothing fun breaking, dps checks are doable and the coordination can be turned in something else , i don't know, a dps or two on unit 2 all the time? most of the dps ignoring the adds on 3rd? i've no idea since i still have to pug those fights, while i spent nice nights on guild runs, and here i agree with the fact that doing a little of learning during SM is good.

 

in a couple of wipes you'll learn how to move during the phases of the fight, and this is the same for any boss in any ops.

 

obviously there will be always bads, taking an hour to move out of a cyrcle, unable to pop a dcd and die during an unespected spike of damage. this will be compensated by healers overgearing(people standing in stupid, or not interupting damn corruptors), tanks overgearing( let alone on boss while healers heal people standing in stupid, being able to ignore magnets even in HM) and having some dps carrying with his numbers( crystals, adds, stacks).

i feel it for who want to pug now, but honestly i hope i'll be in HM already when the nerfbat will hit, like when they removed oneshotting deathmark from the council or the infamous supergroups or the all left things..

[BadHoneyBadger]

Ok so I myself have seen this problem for a while now where people have no idea how to do operational fight as they are not tank and spank and the problem is not really the communities fault but the developers. When the game came out we had basic fights like KP/EV that required some mechanics but were not really hard, then with each expansion the OPs got a little harder with more mechanics which is a good way to challenge players. For a decent guild raid group they will eventually beat the operation. Here are three problems now as I see it.

1) Progression- I played FFXI and still do occasionally and in this game they have level cap increases starting at 50 and every 5 levels to 99. At 70 you are required to fight 1 on 1 with a guy named Maat and beat him to go above 70. With players and operation in SWTOR I feel this could have been implemented somehow with operations such as placing a cap of 50 on KP/EV (60's scale down, 50 gear scales up) and make them progress through tiers.

2) adaptive armour- since this came out players have no idea where a person got their amour, did they buy it? (or exploit). All you see when you look at a person is "oh 192s he must run ops". Simple solution is add a tag on the Armouring if it came from a certain operation.

3) 12x exp - this was a poor move especially for new player. While I did do a commando during this time it was to see the storyline and was the only one I had not seen. By letting new players fly through these quest and not have to run FP's or Heroics you set them up to fail already. FP's such as Red Reaper I feel is the start for learning Op mechanics.

This is just my opinion on what could have been done differently.

[Jawsers]

snip

 

Being able to solve a puzzle or not solve one doesn't indicate whether you are an introvert or an extrovert.

 

I used to play FPS a lot, play NHL whatever year is recently, and Gran Turismo series. Those are definitely not "puzzle games". Yet I enjoy them, and I fit the basic description of an introvert. Someone who does not mind being around people, but gets drained after awhile and needs time alone.

 

Maybe think before you type.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

I would like to see more mini-ops like TC. These would give players, who don't want to or simply can't spend two or more hours in an ops, a chance to learn their role, practice playing in groups with more than four people, learn mechanics, etc. And all of that without fearing that the group will disband after one or two wipes.

 

Tbh I'd like to see more focus on instanced single bosses rather than 5/7 boss operations, but something a bit more dynamic than a tank n spank boss that shoots a lazer now and then... something as difficult as the walkers or the underlurker but in an instance by itself bar the odd trash or puzzle leading up to it.

 

That way bioware can introduce players to difficult content without penalizing them for trying (i.e. second/third boss lockouts).

 

I mean one thing I was disappointed with the expansion is they didn't include a single instanced WB (although they did include the revanite walker).

[Preston_Violent]

There are a few things to point out:

• Mechanic wise these fights are doable, they just need a bit of concentration and willpower (something that the avg pug lost on 2.0)

• Fights are not hard, but tweaks for SM are a good idea (small tweaks, not nerfing to the ground)

• Most pugs are spoiled... I mean fast runs with huge rewards (comms and mats)? The hell is that? If you want rewards, you should earn them not ask for them (which became quite common since 3.0 comm gear is trash, as it should).

• SM ops aren't the gateway to PvE content, that's why we have SM/HM FPs (less intensive, yet enough to make you focus), so don't ask for nerfs for ops.

 

 

Only thing you forgot to consider in your elitist rant is that the times when people were generally interested in HM content and were willing to commit to days and weeks of tries and wipes, boss after boss, are pretty much over. Today an average player is willing to commit 1-2 hours, get some action, some gaming impressions, some quick results and some rewards. If not, they get bored and leave. And these average players are what keeps swtor and similar projects afloat, not a bunch of HM / progression raiders.

 

Brandnew playable content-wise I don't think that perfectly boring and already stale new daily zones on rishi and yavin (with the one on rishi being exemplary poorly organized) will keep a lot of casuals interested in logging in every day. And the new ops are just too hard to pug. Not much left to do for a casual pve player.

 

If BW listens to opinions like yours and agrees that sm ops (or other newly-introduced playable pve content, like hm modes of old tacticals) shouldn't be nerfed and made (more) puggable, give it a while and only f2p's and hm raiders will still be around. Both don't generate any considerable income. And guess what happens next. But ofc, your blinding elitism won't ever let you look at the situation from a casual player's point of view.

[adbe_]

Only thing you forgot to consider in your elitist rant is that the times when people were generally interested in HM content and were willing to commit to days and weeks of tries and wipes, boss after boss, are pretty much over. Today an average player is willing to commit 1-2 hours, get some action, some gaming impressions, some quick results and some rewards. If not, they get bored and leave. And these average players are what keeps swtor and similar projects afloat, not a bunch of HM / progression raiders.

 

Brandnew playable content-wise I don't think that perfectly boring and already stale new daily zones on rishi and yavin (with the one on rishi being exemplary poorly organized) will keep a lot of casuals interested in logging in every day. And the new ops are just too hard to pug. Not much left to do for a casual pve player.

 

If BW listens to opinions like yours and agrees that sm ops (or other newly-introduced playable pve content, like hm modes of old tacticals) shouldn't be nerfed and made (more) puggable, give it a while and only f2p's and hm raiders will still be around. Both don't generate any considerable income. And guess what happens next. But ofc, your blinding elitism won't ever let you look at the situation from a casual player's point of view.

 

You are speaking from a business point of view

He was speaking from a game design point of view

thats two completely different approaches towards a game

 

and obviously there's a balance between the two, that's wheres the debate is at

calling his opinion as blinding elitism frankly shows how little you care/know about game design philosophies

 

Compare to pre 3.0, doing 55 hm fps and sm ops with a team of 156 gear were no less difficult than doing 60 hm fps and sm ops with a team of 186 gear now. In fact Draxus and Council caused a lot of trouble for pugs even when people are overgeared, I remember it took me 3 weeks to find a group to get past Drax back when gf ops was 8m, and had a week gone through 4 groups to finally get Council done.

 

Also, there has to be a learning/gearing curve somewhere or else contents will become homogeneous and boring as the game expend, and you'll need new mechanics/ gear checks, but that has to be somewhat punishing or else they get ignored. If people refuse to learn/ work through these you can't just nerf them because that defeats the original intention.

[PavSalco]

I personally think that only the Underlurker and the 2nd boss in The Ravagers need nerf, everything else is doable with people that listen to the tactics despite the fact that they might lack skills. Edited January 1, 2015 by PavSalco

[dscount]

Majority of the new operations are fine, but several areas are over tuned or need a tweak (Especially 16m - which is supposed to be the most GF friendly).

 

1) LOOT in 16m SM is still borked and needs to be resolved. Going with two 8m groups nets 2x gear vs one 16m.

2) FPS issue is killing a LOT of people with so many graphics (Even turning them down) - animations decreased?

3) SM Walkers shouldn't have a <10 Second kill window (That's NIM mechanic - remove please or reset timer)

4) I agree thrown barrel is a joke - why no option to save yourself. Plus damage is worse in 16m.

5) Having 3 load lifters in 16m is silly (How about they don't all chase the same person as a fix)

6) FIX underlurker please. Has MULTIPLE issues to resolve. Pretty sure that 16m still instant kills 8 players.

7) Did I mention LOOT in 16m is still only dropping 1 Token piece each boss 2-5? (Yea that's a terrible reward) Appears in 16m HM this is not an issue and we get 2 of the same token each boss - why not 2x in 16m SM?

8) Why no MK-2 being dropped in SM version? Only seen MK-1 items in SM and mostly MK-2 in HM.

9) Time between SMOKE clearing in explosions and next mechanic would be nice. (walkers, then red circles)

10) Walkers I'm seeing people get red circle and giant grenade at the same time. Why do that?

11) TRASH mobs are crazy HP and too many. How about we cut one of those in HALF for each group?

Edited January 1, 2015 by dscount

[Preston_Violent]

@ adbe_

 

The point was, casual players are casual They log in for quick results, whether from daily areas or daily pvp or sm gf ops. Maybe they don't have time to wipe over and over, maybe they don't want to learn mechanics, maybe both. But story mode ops should be facerolling to keep casuals interested in doing them for quick comms. And swtor is in no position to afford to neglect so hard casual player's interests if it wants to stay profitable which is the only thing EA cares about. And HM/NIM's may be as challenging and hard as possible, remaining a very niche aspect of the game, as it should.

 

Now, considering the fact that 3.0 gave nothing new to pvp-ers, 2 lame and crappy daily areas for casuals and 2 ops, supposedly for any pve-er but in reality very much not, this expansion, where in the end only serious raiders got something to do, is questionable at best.

[Khevar]

Now, considering the fact that 3.0 gave nothing new to pvp-ers, 2 lame and crappy daily areas for casuals and 2 ops, supposedly for any pve-er but in reality very much not, this expansion, where in the end only serious raiders got something to do, is questionable at best.

Now consider the fact that in the previous 14 months, the only thing serious raiders got to do were 2 NM ops they had already run a million times over on HM.

 

And compare that to 2011-2013, when a new raid was released every 4-5 months on average.

 

And then you come along and imply that serious raiders are being catered to over casuals.

[Preston_Violent]

Now consider the fact that in the previous 14 months, the only thing serious raiders got to do were 2 NM ops they had already run a million times over on HM.

 

And compare that to 2011-2013, when a new raid was released every 4-5 months on average.

 

And then you come along and imply that serious raiders are being catered to over casuals.

 

This time hm raiders are indeed being catered to over others, intentionally or not. Last year was piece of crap for everyone, it's not like casuals had tons of playable stuff either....however, basically catering only to raiders in 3.0 hardly was the right thing to do as well. You gotta cater to those who pay your bills first.

 

Unless I got something wrong and the lousy piece of ***** aka dailies on rishi and yavin plus (a bit too hard to pug) hm modes of same old stale to death 4 tacticals is what was supposed to keep casual excited...?

Edited January 1, 2015 by Preston_Violent

[Khevar]

Unless I got something wrong and the lousy piece of ***** aka dailies on rishi and yavin plus (a bit too hard to pug) hm modes of same old stale to death 4 tacticals is what was supposed to keep casual excited...?

See this ^^^ is how the people in my guild felt throughout the last half of 2014. So forgive me if I'm not brimming with sympathy.

[Preston_Violent]

See this ^^^ is how the people in my guild felt throughout the last half of 2014. So forgive me if I'm not brimming with sympathy.

 

No problem at all, I can't say I felt raiders' pain during 2014 but I also can't say there were things in swtor to keep me around (with housing being a brief bait) either. Raiders weren't the only ones going through playable content drought in 2014 but being now pretty much the only ones catered to, this is what I find questionable

Edited January 1, 2015 by Preston_Violent

[BadHoneyBadger]

Now consider the fact that in the previous 14 months, the only thing serious raiders got to do were 2 NM ops they had already run a million times over on HM.

 

And compare that to 2011-2013, when a new raid was released every 4-5 months on average.

 

And then you come along and imply that serious raiders are being catered to over casuals.

 

I see your point but consider this too, what has pvp got since launch?

1) New gear- not really because they just scrapped the old gear and replaced with new gear that has +5 more stats to everything but expertise.

2) New warzone- yes we got hypergate which was good, you could make an argument for the new huttball but really no new mechanics and replaced the fire with poison (which people still can waltz through now evidently).

3) Bolster- lets face it Bioware is never going to get this right.

[Khevar]

I see your point but consider this too, what has pvp got since launch?

Totally agree with you. That needs some love.

[Nostroo]

I see your point but consider this too, what has pvp got since launch?

1) New gear- not really because they just scrapped the old gear and replaced with new gear that has +5 more stats to everything but expertise.

2) New warzone- yes we got hypergate which was good, you could make an argument for the new huttball but really no new mechanics and replaced the fire with poison (which people still can waltz through now evidently).

3) Bolster- lets face it Bioware is never going to get this right.

 

You forgot Novare coast. It was added with 1.2^^

@Thread: DON'T nerf it!