headshot_hendo Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Why is there no logic like this on other whine threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenlen Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The idea that if not being actively guarded and healed they should be able to be killed in seconds regardless of what they do is the sum total of 75% of peoples ideas on how Sage/Sorcs should be, ie WAAAHHH I WANT EASY KILLS /sniffle /pout. Exactly! THIS! That is what they want! "I should be able to kill any Sorc 1 on 1 in seconds with no damage to me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyseus Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I destroy Sorc's on my OP and my BH. Nothing to see here. To many scrubs allow them to freecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenYugari Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 That's ridiculous. Do you really understand what that would mean re: Sorcerer damage? Turbulence would have to do 20K damage. That is why games moved away from 'glass cannons.' You either have to give them obnoxious damage to compensate or no one would play them. All DPS specs need to be around the same damage/survivability. Doesn't have to be identical, and certainly not mechanically the same, but it should be close enough so that no spec is a clear right or wrong answer. Because class that already does higher damage than Trooper/BH and Warrior/Kight needs to be able to tank the same amount damage. /sarcassm As for "games moved away from glass cannon", I call bs on that one. Check some recently released MMOs and in most of them you will find at least one form of a "glass cannon/mage" class (very high damage, light armor, extremely low survivability). Sages/Sorcs are SWTORs version of a "mage" class. They already deal one of the highest amount of damage in the game, outperformed only by hatred/serenity sins/shadows (yes I know that spec a bit OP and yes I agree it should be tuned down) and the faceroll PT/Vanguard burst, not to mention sorcs/sages can also heal themselves. Its only logical that they should have the lowest survivability, lowest defenses and such. If you want to have all DPS classes to have exactly the same survivability and exactly same dps, whats the point of having different classes and different armor in the first place? Just make one class and one armor type and Bingo! Balance problems solved. There need to be glass cannons and there need to be sustained dps thats lower but with increased survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenYugari Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Exactly! THIS! That is what they want! "I should be able to kill any Sorc 1 on 1 in seconds with no damage to me!" As opposed to sorcs/sages going "I should be able to have insane dps, tank-level survivability and self-heals" as it is now. EDIT: I forgot mobility, so please add "running around while casting stuff" and " easy-mode kitting" to that. Edited January 26, 2015 by JadenYugari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Because class that already does higher damage than Trooper/BH and Warrior/Kight needs to be able to tank the same amount damage. /sarcassm As for "games moved away from glass cannon", I call bs on that one. Check some recently released MMOs and in most of them you will find at least one form of a "glass cannon/mage" class (very high damage, light armor, extremely low survivability). Sages/Sorcs are SWTORs version of a "mage" class. They already deal one of the highest amount of damage in the game, outperformed only by hatred/serenity sins/shadows (yes I know that spec a bit OP and yes I agree it should be tuned down) and the faceroll PT/Vanguard burst, not to mention sorcs/sages can also heal themselves. Its only logical that they should have the lowest survivability, lowest defenses and such. If you want to have all DPS classes to have exactly the same survivability and exactly same dps, whats the point of having different classes and different armor in the first place? Just make one class and one armor type and Bingo! Balance problems solved. There need to be glass cannons and there need to be sustained dps thats lower but with increased survivability. Your post is so stupid and incoherent. You are mixing madness self-heals survivability with lightning burst. Madness has the *******st single target damage and not even the slightest burst, while ling has no passive self-heals and its burst although good, it is not even in the top 3. If you can't achieve big numbers on your toon like a sorc it is your l2p problem. Stop writing idiotic posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenYugari Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Can we please rename the game to Sin Hatred: The Old Sorcerer? Might actually fit the current state of the game as well as its playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 As opposed to sorcs/sages going "I should be able to have insane dps, tank-level survivability and self-heals" as it is now. EDIT: I forgot mobility, so please add "running around while casting stuff" and " easy-mode kitting" to that. Posts like yours make it harder and harder to stay polite and reasonable when addressing these silly arguments. Learn the game, learn the very obvious drawbacks of this class and you will do better. Or just keep whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganOleary Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Posts like yours make it harder and harder to stay polite and reasonable when addressing these silly arguments. Learn the game, learn the very obvious drawbacks of this class and you will do better. Or just keep whining. Draw backs? Sorcs have draw backs? Strange I have a mid 20s Sorc and have not found any...and on my 60s Pubs I never seem to find any, unless you simply refer to them not wearing hvy armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenYugari Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Draw backs? Sorcs have draw backs? Strange I have a mid 20s Sorc and have not found any...and on my 60s Pubs I never seem to find any, unless you simply refer to them not wearing hvy armour. ^^ As for not making a completely empty posts, please add "never runs out of force no matter the frequency of ability spam" to one of my previous posts where I was listing what sorcs/sages currentlyhave/would like to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Draw backs? Sorcs have draw backs? Strange I have a mid 20s Sorc and have not found any...and on my 60s Pubs I never seem to find any, unless you simply refer to them not wearing hvy armour. Yes drawing conclusions on a level 25 sorc (which is also approaching the high level cap for your bracket) is very accurate. ROFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) As opposed to sorcs/sages going "I should be able to have insane dps, tank-level survivability and self-heals" as it is now. EDIT: I forgot mobility, so please add "running around while casting stuff" and " easy-mode kitting" to that. ROFL. Seems like you just start playing the game. Tank survivability, ROFL, yes with the plethora of dcds and the light armour they most certainly are. And yes let's remove mobility and bring them prior 3.0 where nobody played Ling. Keep on bringing the stupid posts. And if 8k is insane damage then what is a 15k ambush for example or 10k assassinates on a sustained damage spec. Edited January 26, 2015 by MusicRider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Draw backs? Sorcs have draw backs? Strange I have a mid 20s Sorc and have not found any...and on my 60s Pubs I never seem to find any, unless you simply refer to them not wearing hvy armour. Keep playing. Actually get to 60 with the Sorc, play some ranked and report back. I have a baby Sorc too in the 20s. Unstoppable. But that's because other classes don't mature as quickly. As for your experience at 60, all I can suggest is that you actually spend some time playing the class when you get there and see what skilled players can do to a Sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganOleary Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Keep playing. Actually get to 60 with the Sorc, play some ranked and report back. I have a baby Sorc too in the 20s. Unstoppable. But that's because other classes don't mature as quickly. As for your experience at 60, all I can suggest is that you actually spend some time playing the class when you get there and see what skilled players can do to a Sorc. Possibly, Im not drawing conclusions on my 25 Sorc Im simply saying I have some idea about them. And one v one on my Slinger is a toss up, if the Sorc used his full heal ability b4 we meet.But FS IS insane atm...when Fly By was hittjng like a truck Sorcs were just as much crying on forums...and now the ability is almost useless. In WZ when you have half a team playing them it gets rediculouse. 4v4 you know even b4 the match starts whether you even have a 'chance' at a win or 'lets get this over with' . The 4v4 matches with 2 Sorcs a Sin and either PT or Jugg.....player skill has nothing to do with this game, the better class wins and that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Possibly, Im not drawing conclusions on my 25 Sorc Im simply saying I have some idea about them. And one v one on my Slinger is a toss up, if the Sorc used his full heal ability b4 we meet.But FS IS insane atm...when Fly By was hittjng like a truck Sorcs were just as much crying on forums...and now the ability is almost useless. In WZ when you have half a team playing them it gets rediculouse. 4v4 you know even b4 the match starts whether you even have a 'chance' at a win or 'lets get this over with' . The 4v4 matches with 2 Sorcs a Sin and either PT or Jugg.....player skill has nothing to do with this game, the better class wins and that's about it. You have 0 idea at level 25. And yes it has to do with skill. The fact you don't even recognise that implies how terrible you are. Just came out from a win me sorc, a merc, a sent, and an oper vs 2 jugs 1 sage and 1 pt. Before that merc healer, 2 operatives and my sorc vs 2 jugs, 1 pt and 1 merc healer. Both easy wins... Who do you think was more fotm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenYugari Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 You have 0 idea at level 25. And yes it has to do with skill. The fact you don't even recognise that implies how terrible you are. Just came out from a win me sorc, a merc, a sent, and an oper vs 2 jugs 1 sage and 1 pt. Before that merc healer, 2 operatives and my sorc vs 2 jugs, 1 pt and 1 merc healer. Both easy wins... Who do you think was more fotm? Oh my god, puting down 2+ Force Skillstorms on a single place involves sooooo much skill and effort. Its - tell your team on chat what you want to do - click the ability (oh my gosh...sooo much work) - hover over the enemy team (less skilled players got probably lost here) - click again to use it (such masterpiece! Much wow!). I cant even say if any other move in the game needs this much effort and skill. Clearly using Force Skillstorm requires years of practice and meditation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Oh my god, puting down 2+ Force Skillstorms on a single place involves sooooo much skill and effort. Its - tell your team on chat what you want to do - click the ability (oh my gosh...sooo much work) - hover over the enemy team (less skilled players got probably lost here) - click again to use it (such masterpiece! Much wow!). I cant even say if any other move in the game needs this much effort and skill. Clearly using Force Skillstorm requires years of practice and meditation! You are a complete idiot if you have taken two fully force storms back to back and did nothing for it. And fyi the game was not won on force storms but on peeling on the healer . But yes keep on displaying how dumb you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yes drawing conclusions on a level 25 sorc (which is also approaching the high level cap for your bracket) is very accurate. ROFL. You you ratrher compare a level 60 sorc with a sorc playing in the bracket for level 25 ? Since when can level 60 soircs play in that bracket ??? You are actually comparing appleas with peas here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenYugari Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 You are a complete idiot if you have taken two fully force storms back to back and did nothing for it. And fyi the game was not won on force storms but on peeling on the healer . But yes keep on displaying how dumb you are. Do you realize that 2 Force Skillstorms have the potential to crit for 5-6k(2,5k - 3k each) total each tick? With that idiotic slow effect(because combining crowd control, AoE and "hit like a truck" damage levels seems like a brilliant idea) on it every melee class that doesnt burn anti-cc/speed increase against it gets hit by at least 4-5 ticks, thats 20-25k hp down to that entire area (not just one enemy target) just by 2 friggin sorcs. Even if you burn anti-cc or Force speed you still take 2 or 3 ticks on melee and congrats, you now have your anti-cc/speed increase on CD while the "Team Sorc" can just re-drop Force Skillstorm on your new location. #balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm just glad the SITH CAN ONCE AGAIN RULE THE GALAXY! /dustsofflaunchtoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenYugari Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm just glad the SITH CAN ONCE AGAIN RULE THE GALAXY! /dustsofflaunchtoon Then Bioware hits the Thermal Exhaust with Nerf Torpedoes xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Then Bioware hits the Thermal Exhaust with Nerf Torpedoes xD It was and is now, only fluff, scoreboard padding damage. I still smell lack of GCD burst to stop anyone, and healing has its own issues.. Nothing more to see here, than people getting kited an/or letting them freecast without knowing interrupt works very well. They can still be picked apart by most specs with insta attacks... Edited January 26, 2015 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 PS I played my Sage yesterday for the first time since they removed insta-lift from the balance spec. A lot of the same holes remain. I have no problem dealing with them on the bulk of my toons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 You you ratrher compare a level 60 sorc with a sorc playing in the bracket for level 25 ? Since when can level 60 soircs play in that bracket ??? You are actually comparing appleas with peas here. I have no idea what your point is here. Music stated that you can't make conclusions about how overperforming a spec is at level 25. Which is manifestly true. Sorcs have the majority of their major powers by level 26. Some classes like Marauders are still missing key elements of their toolkit. No reasonable conclusion about any class can be drawn at 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I have argued with music and nala for this whole thread pretty much, but they are 100% correct in this point. You can't make balance decisions based off of lowbie PVP. Juggs kind of suck in lowbie pvp. Does that mean they are weak period? Nope. They are just s late bloomer. Sorcs get things early on that really help them tear up lowbies, but those are lowbies and have no bearing on end game. I still think they have too many tools, but I agree with music and nala about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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