What's weirder than a pureblood inquisitor *spoilers*

[Leaveshill]

Strange I clearly remember Talos Drellik (the archaeologist) in a conversation with my rattataki assassin saying that Kallig was an alien and then commenting on how different the Empire might have been if Kallig had won instead of Tulak Hord.

 

For what its worth if you play a twi'lek or zabrak and wear a helmet you see no evidence of yourn alienness either - not even in the cut scenes unless the helmet isn't rendered. I just assumed that if you were playing such an alien that the lack of it on Kallig was for the same reason. Not that he was necessarily human.

Talos says that or "He was oddly pro-alien" if you're human, so the statement are really worthless in truth.

 

And it's not relevant that wearing a helmet makes the horns go away in-game. It's not like the horns just take a break from being part of your body while wearing a helmet. It's almost something we could consider a bug, and it's clear that no important characters in the game can have such "bugs". Kallig can't be a zabrak because of that helmet, even though you can use a helmet as a zabrak in game. It wouldn't make sense. Of course, he can be another alien, one that's 99% human in facial and headshape.

[rashencyberspeed]

Talos says that or "He was oddly pro-alien" if you're human, so the statement are really worthless in truth.

 

And it's not relevant that wearing a helmet makes the horns go away in-game. It's not like the horns just take a break from being part of your body while wearing a helmet. It's almost something we could consider a bug, and it's clear that no important characters in the game can have such "bugs". Kallig can't be a zabrak because of that helmet, even though you can use a helmet as a zabrak in game. It wouldn't make sense. Of course, he can be another alien, one that's 99% human in facial and headshape.

 

Zabraks ARE 99% Human in facial and headshape. They have small horns, but that is basically the ONLY difference.

 

I have a question, how are you so sure that Zabrak horns couldn't fit in a helmet? I can understand issues with Tei'lek lekku, but Zabrak horns are small enough that I think they could fit.

[Leaveshill]

Zabraks ARE 99% Human in facial and headshape. They have small horns, but that is basically the ONLY difference.

 

I have a question, how are you so sure that Zabrak horns couldn't fit in a helmet? I can understand issues with Tei'lek lekku, but Zabrak horns are small enough that I think they could fit.

 

Zabrak are close to humans in facial and headshape, yes.

 

But look at Kallig ;

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120110021920/starwars/images/e/ec/Kalligghost.jpg

Then look at the Zabrak

http://www.swtor-life.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/SateleShansMaster-Return.jpg

 

The helmet appears to be so tight that it can't be anything but a hornless humanoid. Obviously, it might theoretically possibly that a zabrak with smaller than average horns may get the helmet on, but it doesn't seem to be made for Zabrak in truth. Maybe I'm giving zabraks too little possiblity, but at least it seems more likely that it's a human even if being a Zabrak with small-horns might be possible

[SteelieCZ]

Zabrak are close to humans in facial and headshape, yes.

 

But look at Kallig ;

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120110021920/starwars/images/e/ec/Kalligghost.jpg

Then look at the Zabrak

http://www.swtor-life.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/SateleShansMaster-Return.jpg

 

The helmet appears to be so tight that it can't be anything but a hornless humanoid. Obviously, it might theoretically possibly that a zabrak with smaller than average horns may get the helmet on, but it doesn't seem to be made for Zabrak in truth. Maybe I'm giving zabraks too little possiblity, but at least it seems more likely that it's a human even if being a Zabrak with small-horns might be possible

 

And these three (for example) wouldn't fit? The Star Wars universe isn't all humans, purebloods, zabraks and twi'leks you know.

[Leaveshill]

And these three (for example) wouldn't fit? The Star Wars universe isn't all humans, purebloods, zabraks and twi'leks you know.

 

I stated that he could be an alien with facial and head shape close enough to humans. Which leaves a number of spieces, in truth. Like the ones you shared, I even stated that he could be a Chiss earlier. But it's not likely, though. It's most likely a human due to the prejuice aliens faces, which was even worse back then. But again, I did mention that it could be an alien. Just not a twi'lek or zabrak looking one, as I find their horns/head tails to be too far from what'd fit well in his helmet.

 

Again, I get your point but I did state that as long as the head shape is 99% alike humans, then it'd be no problem.

[OrinVlado]

I stated that he could be an alien with facial and head shape close enough to humans. Which leaves a number of spieces, in truth. Like the ones you shared, I even stated that he could be a Chiss earlier. But it's not likely, though. It's most likely a human due to the prejuice aliens faces, which was even worse back then. But again, I did mention that it could be an alien. Just not a twi'lek or zabrak looking one, as I find their horns/head tails to be too far from what'd fit well in his helmet.

 

Again, I get your point but I did state that as long as the head shape is 99% alike humans, then it'd be no problem.

 

I think it's kinda funny that you're basing your argument against him being a zabrak on the helmet not fitting. No offense dude, but that doesn't hold a lot of weight. Just because you have horns, doesn't mean you can't wear a helmet. There are plenty of practical ways to get around that (i.e. filing horns down, or having the helmet actually be made for your species (like zabrak))

[Leaveshill]

I think it's kinda funny that you're basing your argument against him being a zabrak on the helmet not fitting. No offense dude, but that doesn't hold a lot of weight. Just because you have horns, doesn't mean you can't wear a helmet. There are plenty of practical ways to get around that (i.e. filing horns down, or having the helmet actually be made for your species (like zabrak))

 

It's not any helmet though, it's this particular helmet. http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120110021920/starwars/images/e/ec/Kalligghost.jpg

 

And no offense take, if we're not supposed to critize other's opinions, then how can anyone really improve?

 

I'm sure that it's a lot of helmet made for zabrak as well, but this one doesn't seem that way to me. I'm not saying that it's no way a zabrak could make it fit, but I'm saying that it's more logical that the helmet was made for a human or another spiecies that already have the right headshape for it. After all, it's likely that he made that helmet for himself. I'd not make a helmet that required me to, let's say, remove my ears for it to fit.

[rashencyberspeed]

It's not any helmet though, it's this particular helmet. http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120110021920/starwars/images/e/ec/Kalligghost.jpg

 

And no offense take, if we're not supposed to critize other's opinions, then how can anyone really improve?

 

I'm sure that it's a lot of helmet made for zabrak as well, but this one doesn't seem that way to me. I'm not saying that it's no way a zabrak could make it fit, but I'm saying that it's more logical that the helmet was made for a human or another spiecies that already have the right headshape for it. After all, it's likely that he made that helmet for himself. I'd not make a helmet that required me to, let's say, remove my ears for it to fit.

 

You have just destroyed your own argument. If he made that helmet for himself, it is not hard to believe that a Zabrak-Kallig could account for his horns with the design.

Edited February 1, 2015 by rashencyberspeed

[Leaveshill]

You have just destroyed your own argument. If he made that helmet for himself, it is not hard to believe that a Zabrak-Kallig could account for his horns with the design.

 

How did I destroy my argument?

As I said, it does not appear to be customized for Zabrak. I might in theory be wrong, but we need to look at what we're given. The helmet doesn't seem to hide horns. Had it been a zabrak-made helmet, then it might even been horns in the helmet, perfectly made for his own horns. Kallig came from a wealthy family and was the right hand of the Dark lord of the sith, Tulak Hord after all.

 

It's not hard to beleive that a Zabrak sith lord could account for his horns, but as I said, it doesn't seem like that helmet was made for Zabrak. That it in theory might fit isn't relevant, it doesn't appear that way and when discussing this we should take what we're given

[rashencyberspeed]

How did I destroy my argument?

As I said, it does not appear to be customized for Zabrak. I might in theory be wrong, but we need to look at what we're given. The helmet doesn't seem to hide horns. Had it been a zabrak-made helmet, then it might even been horns in the helmet, perfectly made for his own horns. Kallig came from a wealthy family and was the right hand of the Dark lord of the sith, Tulak Hord after all.

 

It's not hard to beleive that a Zabrak sith lord could account for his horns, but as I said, it doesn't seem like that helmet was made for Zabrak. That it in theory might fit isn't relevant, it doesn't appear that way and when discussing this we should take what we're given

 

Who said a Zabrak's helmet would have to have horns in it?

Edited February 2, 2015 by rashencyberspeed

[Odlus]

Talos says that or "He was oddly pro-alien" if you're human, so the statement are really worthless in truth.

 

It's not hard to beleive that a Zabrak sith lord could account for his horns, but as I said, it doesn't seem like that helmet was made for Zabrak. That it in theory might fit isn't relevant, it doesn't appear that way and when discussing this we should take what we're given

 

If the basis of your argument revolves around:

 

1) The game's inability for ingame item models to account for differing alien head features.

2) Throwing out actual ingame dialogue simply on the basis that it disagrees with the argument you're trying to make.

 

Then you might want to step back and rethink your stance. The game clearly states that the SI's forefather was an alien if the player character is an alien, meaning that neither character currently has a canon species. Trying to use Bioware's inability to make helmets that play nice with horns or head tails as proof that ingame dialogue is wrong is really, really, really silly.

 

Maybe if some day that TOR2 post turns out to be real and the SI ends up surviving Bioware will have to pick a canon species for that character, but as of now the "canon" is that the SI's canon species is whatever the player picks. Most Bioware games work like this.

[Darth_Wicked]

Maybe if some day that TOR2 post turns out to be real

 

I'll film myself eating a sock, and upload it to Youtube if that happens.

[Odlus]

I'll film myself eating a sock, and upload it to Youtube if that happens.

 

What, you doubt that Bioware will heavily modify the engine to port the game to consoles when they already have plans for a sequel? I can't imagine why.

 

It's still the only way I could see Bioware giving the SI an official species, though.

[JLazarillo]

Who said a Zabrak's helmet would have to have horns in it?

 

Hell, since Zabrak all have (or at least can have) different patterns of horns, the sheer idea of them wearing helmets built to suit horns seems...off. It's like saying Kallig must have been bald because the helmet doesn't account for potentially different hairstyles.

[Wittand]

Since Kallig is several generations away from the Inquisitor and humans can produce off-spring with species like Twillek and Zabrak so even if Kalig is human a Twillek or Zabrak desendent after several generations of interbreeding is possible. Kalig could even be a hybrid himself and therefore have less developed features (smaller horns shorter lekku) that can easily fir under the mask while still be considered an alien by imperial standarts.

[Leaveshill]

If the basis of your argument revolves around:

 

1) The game's inability for ingame item models to account for differing alien head features.

2) Throwing out actual ingame dialogue simply on the basis that it disagrees with the argument you're trying to make.

 

Then you might want to step back and rethink your stance. The game clearly states that the SI's forefather was an alien if the player character is an alien, meaning that neither character currently has a canon species. Trying to use Bioware's inability to make helmets that play nice with horns or head tails as proof that ingame dialogue is wrong is really, really, really silly.

 

Maybe if some day that TOR2 post turns out to be real and the SI ends up surviving Bioware will have to pick a canon species for that character, but as of now the "canon" is that the SI's canon species is whatever the player picks. Most Bioware games work like this.

 

Someone(think it was u) made it clear that if the player is an alien, then it's stated that he's an alien as well. Hence why I said that we can't count that statements, in any direction. Since he says "Pro-alien" if you're a human. Makes those statemens worthless.

 

I just said that it's most likely due to the helmet. We need to assume that the helmet fits, right? We can't assume that it's a headtail under it. The ingame dialogue is "misguiding" as it says that Kallig is everything at once, and therefor not valid.

 

*As stated, Nox might be a hybrid. The odds are still higher for human. If your forefather in USA is a white politician, then you're most likely a white man/woman as well.

 

Also; Different hairstyles and horns aren't the same. Horns don't bend. COmparing that is just silly. Horns may be in the way for the helmet.

 

IF they really wanted to make Kallig "more neutral," they should've made another type of helmet. Possibly a mask, then let him wear a hood over it. A large hood, and we'd be none the wiser. Then let Nox get the mask, but now it's impossible to know as the hood covers all tracks and the mask is a mask, not a helmet. Masks fit everyone.

 

So it'd be easy for them (Bioware) to make it more "alien friendly", but they didnt. Hence why I still believe that the first Kallig was human, and why I'd guess that Nox is likley a human due to his forether most likely being one. I didn't said "IS", but I said "LIKELY", and I'll not back more down than likely. It's more signs pointint in the direction of a human than in the direction of an alien, that's a fact. It's little to prove anything, but it's at least something.

 

And let's hope TOR2 gets a reality. Then we'll see. If you're right, then I'll be suprised, but well. We'll see in a few years, my little ortolan.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Leaveshill

[Odlus]

Someone(think it was u) made it clear that if the player is an alien, then it's stated that he's an alien as well. Hence why I said that we can't count that statements,

 

There's no basis for this claim at all, you can't just go "oh, we can't count THAT." whenever you don't like what's being said.

 

I just said that it's most likely due to the helmet. We need to assume that the helmet fits, right?

 

No we don't, because that's not how the game works. We don't need to assume that this helmet fits any more than we need to assume that helmets which fit a Twilek simply don't exist since we never see any ingame. It's a limitation of the engine or art assets, nothing more.

 

The ingame dialogue is "misguiding" as it says that Kallig is everything at once, and therefor not valid.

 

Again, you're plainly wrong here. The dialogue only says one or the other, not both at once. It's dependent entirely on the player's character because there is no official canon in this instance. There's nothing misguiding about the dialogue, it just contradicts your stance so you're trying to remove it from the discussion. You may as well try to argue that any dialogue referencing player gender is "misleading" and should be removed from any discussion as well.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Odlus

[Leaveshill]

There's no basis for this claim at all, you can't just go "oh, we can't count THAT." whenever you don't like what's being said.

 

 

 

No we don't, because that's not how the game works. We don't need to assume that this helmet fits any more than we need to assume that helmets which fit a Twilek simply don't exist since we never see any ingame. It's a limitation of the engine or art assets, nothing more.

 

 

 

Again, you're plainly wrong here. The dialogue only says one or the other, not both at once. It's dependent entirely on the player's character because there is no official canon in this instance. There's nothing misguiding about the dialogue, it just contradicts your stance so you're trying to remove it from the discussion. You may as well try to argue that any dialogue referencing player gender is "misleading" and should be removed from any discussion as well.

 

You're really lost, aren't you? No wonder, I'd yet to see a talking elephant being right, so I guess it's ok.

 

It's a fact that if two statements contradicts eachother, and they're based on an important person, then both of these should be labeled irrelevant until one of them are proven correctly. Youa re completely lost. Completely. Your failure to understand this is nothing but impressive.

 

You do realize that saying "But Zash called me HE, which means Nox is a guy!" is 100% false? It's not relevant. Please think. You clearly did not think before writing this. It's not relevant. S/he is not relevant, it has to be ignored. Just like the alien or pro-alien has to be ignored because it's two statements, from the same person, completely different. Yes we're supposed to ignore that they call you a he, or a she. Because it's not proof of anything.

 

Yes, it would be god damn easy to have a mask with a hood. Do you not see this? Are you blind, by any chance?

 

They made a helmet. From scratch. They could've made a mask, like Revan's mask. Nobody knows what behind. But they didn't. Then it's not a twi'lek. If you're that stupid, then I'm done answering your posts.

 

"BUHU it's a game so I*ll ignore the fact that the god damn brain tails can't fit there"

A game should be considered in the same manner as a movie. If you don't realize this then I don't know what you're on? Because it's not possible to hide your braintales.

 

You love aliens. Fine. But Kallig is NOT some twi'lek, or god damn elephant ortalan creature. We get more clues to point to my side than yours. Your lack of understanding and stubborn attitude is nothing but insulting to yourself. I did try to take you seriously, but now I feel like I*m speaking to a child. I explained how the mask could've been made instead, but you refused to listen because you don't want to see the fact that they didn't make it for twi'leks or other "weird" aliens with too special traits....

 

This is your mistake. It makes your entire post laughable at best. Stop commenting if you're incapable of reading. I clearly stated "most likely", and I clearly states that the helmet should be considered important. Kallig/Nox will never have a face. It'll be that helmet, if it becomes TOR2. Fact. No face. No race. But it's not a twi'lek, not a damn elehpaht, not a hutt. You can go cry in the corner if you'd like, but it's a fact. It's not game mechanics anymore. The cinematics are actually showing "real" characters, relevant to TOR and they'll be "real" according to TOR2 if TOR2 actually gets made. Fact.

 

If Kallig removes that mask and is a twi'lek, then 99% will laugh. It's not acceptable because of how the helmet is made. And they're capable of making a MASK, with a hood, which in turn could make it at least possible for most aliens to be Kallig. But they didn't. BECAUSE he's not one of them. Get that through your head. It's so easy to make it "alien-like"; but they didn't. Because Kallig is likely a human. The reason you get to play zabrak without unlocking is likely due to people wanting Darth Maul. And even if it's not, a zabrak might in theory be possible as well. It's just not likely. A twi'lek is 100% impossible, as is most other weird-aliens. You're just a fanatic. Go reflect and maybe you'll see how your comments are at best flawed. At best.

 

I mean...

" No we don't, because that's not how the game works. We don't need to assume that this helmet fits any more than we need to assume that helmets which fit a Twilek simply don't exist since we never see any ingame. It's a limitation of the engine or art assets, nothing more. "

Wow. Just wow. No it's not. They could make it useable for twi'leks, just make it a god damn mask. But you're blind and can't see this. Even though I've already written it. But you chose to ignore and bash more. Which makes your bashing 100% wrong and you should learn to answer on relevant parts. Not just copy out the part you'd like to bash and ignore the rest, which states that it'd be easy to fix. Please read the next time.

 

Your "Both can be considered right" attitude are like that of a 10 year old wanting both Messi and Ronaldo to be the best footballers. It's flawed. Two things can never be correct. If there's no straight answer, and it's two statements, then you ignore both and look for other facts. You don't see this? If you see it, good. If not, then start studying. Because it's a huge lack of understanding to claim that. Maybe you go insane here because your beautiful twi'lek Nox gets doubted. Too bad. Have fun with it, but it's not going to be part of the lore if TOR2 makes it. Fact. That's why the helmet aren't at all capable of using with twi'lek.

 

Every game is "supposed" to be like something, have a "canon ending" if you will. If they're planning on a second game. Which is a fact. And if we're to look at something, we must to so neutrally. You fail to do this. You're here bashing my opinions, yet all you write is garbage. Like that the helmet should be ignored because it's "no helmets for twi'leks".

It's masks for twi'leks, it'd be simple to make a half-helmet, covering the entire face but not the head. Then have a hood over it, even twi'leks can have hoods over them. At least that'd make more sense than the damn helmet that no twi'lek could ever get halfway over their heads. You don't see this, fine. Then don't expect to be taken seriously. What's next? A helmet is a helmet. It can't fit on every skull. The fact that a twi'lek can't have a helmet on it's hed means that if it's a helmet, then it's no twi'lek. Kallig- likely human, if not then an alien capable of putting that tight helmet over him. If it's a zabrak, then I'd be that suprised but I'd not expect it. You're speaking, as I stated, like a fanatic. I'd almost believe you were a twi'lek in real life. What's next?

"We don't know about Kallig... he might be a dashade."

Stop being so ignorant and move on.

 

Kallig - not a twi'lek. Or any other alien incapable of theoretically wearing that helmet.

 

Again. I'll ignore you if you write another post as weird as the last one. Where you ignore my statements and refuse to see reason because of your fanatical views.

[OrinVlado]

Wow how bout you put a spoiler or 20 in there so we don't have people getting seizures from reading that wall. Least provide some Tylenol. Anyway I'm with Odlus, he's saying what pretty much everyone else is (save one) Edited February 3, 2015 by OrinVlado

[rashencyberspeed]

TEXT WALL

 

Wow. What a hypocrite. Ranting on how anyone who disagrees with you is clearly a blind fanatic acting like a 10-year-old bashing on your opinion, when if anything, you're the blind fanatic acting like a 10-year-old bashing on others' opinions.

 

This is honestly the kind of game where you can't throw out the "techical limitations" argument. (Worth noting, there are no "masks" in the game as far as I know. Even Revan's signature look is a helmet when you have no hood.) You're also completely ignoring how BioWare does NOT have an established canon for this game, and as far as I can tell, they're trying to avoid establishing a canon. The fact that dialogue changes based on character choices cannot be ignored. If Kallig is a human in your world, that's fine. But you can't just say that anyone who makes him a not-human is "completely wrong because the helmet makes him human". Heck, if anything, that helmet just makes him a mystery. They could've given Kallig a face. They could've made him a definite human. The problem? That would create storyline issues for people who play as non-humans. Thus, he has a helmet. His species cannot be seen, thus leaving it up to player imagination. And unless they were to make several different models for each playable species, or create a helmet so huge that Twi'lek lekku could fit, which would probably confuse anyone who didn't play Twi'lek, they can't really get around size.

 

Also, that football comment and claims that we can't consider both right... that is just garbage and shows a clear bias in favor of your views. The problem with using a real-world case is that everything is firmly established. Whatever happened is set in stone and cannot be changed. However, the subject of Kallig's species is NOT set in stone, and whether you like or not, can be changed by player choice. In a game like, where player choice is a major factor and changes to personal stories are made, and different players are free to make different choices to their story, it IS possible for multiple statements to be correct. This a BioWare staple. Saying Commander Shepard is a ruthless Renegade is no less correct than saying he (or she) was a pure-hearted Paragon.

 

Before you try to force your opinion as the concrete unable to be denied fact, take a good look at the kind of world SWTOR is. If you like the idea of Kallig being a human, fine. But don't go lecturing people who like the idea of him being an alien as being wrong. In case you haven't realized, we are NOT saying that Kallig being a human is wrong. We're simply saying we like the idea of him being an alien. You are the one criticizing us and saying we're wrong. Which means it is you, and not us, who are bashing another's opinion.

[Leaveshill]

Wow. What a hypocrite. Ranting on how anyone who disagrees with you is clearly a blind fanatic acting like a 10-year-old bashing on your opinion, when if anything, you're the blind fanatic acting like a 10-year-old bashing on others' opinions.

 

This is honestly the kind of game where you can't throw out the "techical limitations" argument. (Worth noting, there are no "masks" in the game as far as I know. Even Revan's signature look is a helmet when you have no hood.) You're also completely ignoring how BioWare does NOT have an established canon for this game, and as far as I can tell, they're trying to avoid establishing a canon. The fact that dialogue changes based on character choices cannot be ignored. If Kallig is a human in your world, that's fine. But you can't just say that anyone who makes him a not-human is "completely wrong because the helmet makes him human". Heck, if anything, that helmet just makes him a mystery. They could've given Kallig a face. They could've made him a definite human. The problem? That would create storyline issues for people who play as non-humans. Thus, he has a helmet. His species cannot be seen, thus leaving it up to player imagination. And unless they were to make several different models for each playable species, or create a helmet so huge that Twi'lek lekku could fit, which would probably confuse anyone who didn't play Twi'lek, they can't really get around size.

 

Also, that football comment and claims that we can't consider both right... that is just garbage and shows a clear bias in favor of your views. The problem with using a real-world case is that everything is firmly established. Whatever happened is set in stone and cannot be changed. However, the subject of Kallig's species is NOT set in stone, and whether you like or not, can be changed by player choice. In a game like, where player choice is a major factor and changes to personal stories are made, and different players are free to make different choices to their story, it IS possible for multiple statements to be correct. This a BioWare staple. Saying Commander Shepard is a ruthless Renegade is no less correct than saying he (or she) was a pure-hearted Paragon.

 

Before you try to force your opinion as the concrete unable to be denied fact, take a good look at the kind of world SWTOR is. If you like the idea of Kallig being a human, fine. But don't go lecturing people who like the idea of him being an alien as being wrong. In case you haven't realized, we are NOT saying that Kallig being a human is wrong. We're simply saying we like the idea of him being an alien. You are the one criticizing us and saying we're wrong. Which means it is you, and not us, who are bashing another's opinion.

 

I said that they could easily solve the problem if it's supposed to be, let's say, a twi'lek. Just make a mask. Or just make it so that the helmet has a hood with it, and the problem is solved....

 

But that wasn't even responded to. Instead I was bashed for saying that it's not a twi'lek. The personal freedom is there for the game. Example; KOTOR1 - Revan , that's a man. Hands down, a man. KOTOR2. Surik; A woman. Both humans, that's how it is. In the game you get the freedom, but in the end it'll be something that's "right" and something that your preference. In the start I did even mention how Kallig can be an alien. I said so. A number of aliens could use the helmet. But some cannot. Then he tried to say something as annoying as "But it's game mechanics."

It's cinematics. Cinematics and game mechanics are not the same. The cinematics are supposed to be movie-like, meaning that the faces of the persons in their are to be trusted. The personal freedom is great, but I've tried to point out a number of reasons to why Kallig being a human is more likely,. Not that it's canon, I never ever said so. I said most likely. And my points are ignored whenever possible.

 

Which is annoying. Ignoring points to prove one wrong makes it impossible to have a discussion. It'd be 100% simpel to bioware to make Kallig wear his helmet, but also a hood. Problem solved, we'd not know what race he is. Ofc he'd probably not be a twi'lek etc anyways, but at least it's a hood, which isn't tight, over his head as well.

 

The reason I called him a fanatic is; I accepted that Kallig might be an alien. I never said that it's impossible. I never said that, but I said that it's more likely. I've tried to mention why.

a) Prejuice against aliens, which was even worse back then. Now, the "old ways are dying" as Malgus said. It was worse then.

b) His helmet. He can't be an alien that's incapable of wearing a helmet. It doesn't mean that it in theory can't be, let's say, a zabrak, but it makes it highly unlikely.

c) - I never said that Nox can't be a hybrid. If Kallig is not an alien, then it's still a chance of his offspring being a mix. But that's never the most likelist, even though it's also possible. I've never gone to the extremes, I*ve tried to explain why I find it MORE likely, and my "most likely" gets bashed as "Fanatical rants" by you. I've tried to be reasonable and explain why it's more likely, not why it's impossible for everything else to be.

 

Back to the football example; It's valid.

Nobody agrees upon who's the best. It changes from year to year, and people will discuss it into the ends of time. Like they discuss "old greats", and how they'll discuss "new greats". That example is perfectly valid. If I tell you, that you're my main discussion rival(idk what that is but it'll do now, as we're "discussing" as it is), then I tell the ortolan the same, then my statements can't be trusted and must be ignored in this matter. That's a fact. The two statements even eachother out, and that's why it's no use in talking about it. Because you can say "Hey he said", but so can everyone else and it's not relevant because the statements ruin eachother. If two statements from one person contradicts eachother, then they cannot be measured into the final "count." Then both are false, until proven otherwise. I said that both, not the "alien" one are irrelevant. How does that make anything in my favor? It resets the score, if that's "in my favor", then I guess you see that the logics point more in favor of a human than, let's say, a twi'lek. Doesn't mean that you can't be a twi'lek, maybe your forefather really liked those braintails. Who am I to question that?

[Frenesi]

snip

 

If you roll twi'lek, you will hear that Kallig was alien. It's kinda stupid to assume that he was something other then twi'lek in that case. And since twi'leks ARE a base choice for inquisitors...

 

No hood can hide lekku. Actually, they override any hood you try to use.

 

And twi'leks CAN wear helmets. You can see a number of twi'lek troopers on republic side, and those guys are famous for their helmets. You can't live long enough without them, so it's safe to assume twi'lek helmets do exist, but ingame models are unified to make it simplier. If your twi'lek will try to equip helmet, he will succesfully do it. And it will override lekku.

 

Finally, for all we know, Kallig could be one of those crazy sith. Who cut off his lekku to wear metal skull

[Senrie]

I agree with much of what you're saying Leaveshill(and if others read you a little more carefully they probably would too) except for your presumption that there's going to be a canon set later:

 

Every game is "supposed" to be like something, have a "canon ending" if you will. If they're planning on a second game. Which is a fact.

 

This is not a fact. Not every game disrespects the choices a player made for their character like BioWare regularly does. TES is the best example of this. There's no actual necessity for any of our characters to be featured or referenced heavily enough in subsequent Star Wars material that we'd have to know their race and/or sex.

[Leaveshill]

I agree with much of what you're saying Leaveshill(and if others read you a little more carefully they probably would too) except for your presumption that there's going to be a canon set later:

 

 

 

This is not a fact. Not every game disrespects the choices a player made for their character like BioWare regularly does. TES is the best example of this. There's no actual necessity for any of our characters to be featured or referenced heavily enough in subsequent Star Wars material that we'd have to know their race and/or sex.

 

Nice to see someone reading my walls of text carefully. I try to point out things, but they're mostly ignored it seems.

 

And well, you might be right. Scrolls is like you said a nice example. I'll gueess that most games that's storydriven, however, ignores this and makes something canon. I'm actually agreeing that it's nice for games not to do such a thing, but I have a feeling that they'll do so. It's kind of normal in such settings, as it's close to KOTOR and they've done that in both KOTOR games. I see no reason why they'd not do it again. But it's of course annoying to have your experience "broken" by new rules after you're done.

[Leaveshill]

If you roll twi'lek, you will hear that Kallig was alien. It's kinda stupid to assume that he was something other then twi'lek in that case. And since twi'leks ARE a base choice for inquisitors...

 

No hood can hide lekku. Actually, they override any hood you try to use.

 

And twi'leks CAN wear helmets. You can see a number of twi'lek troopers on republic side, and those guys are famous for their helmets. You can't live long enough without them, so it's safe to assume twi'lek helmets do exist, but ingame models are unified to make it simplier. If your twi'lek will try to equip helmet, he will succesfully do it. And it will override lekku.

 

Finally, for all we know, Kallig could be one of those crazy sith. Who cut off his lekku to wear metal skull

 

Well, he could cut off his lekku. That part is true, but we're discussing what's most logical. You can find excuses for anything to be true if you have the imagination, and I'm sure most of you (the ones that disagree with me) has perfectly valid reasons for why their choice is natural. But I'm not discussing if it's possible, I'm discussing what's most logical. I'm yet to see an important figure taking of his helmet and revealing those brain tails.

 

Also; It's a base choice. So is Zabrak for Sith Warriors. "I am heir to a great Sith Legacy!", right.

Overseer Tremel brings you in to stop the horrible "dirty human" Vemrin for an alien. It's not relevant if it's base or not. Not base means not close to canon. All base choices aren't relevant either. Zabrak as Sith Warrior is the perfect example. It makes literally no sense if you pay close attention to every detail. So the "Base=canon" isn't true in all cases.

 

ANd yes. IF you play a twi'lek, then your forefather is a twi'lek and so on. I'm not saying that your twi'lek isn't "real" enough, neither am I saying that "your" Kallig isn't an alien... I'm talking about Day X, the day when the game closes and they make something new. A SWTOR2, or just shut everything down. Then your conversation with Talos isn't relevant as it's 99% sure that Kallig won't be a twi'lek. If he's a twi'lek, well, as you said, the he was insane and cut them of to hide his "shame" of being an alien. Which makes sense when you think about it, but it's of course still much more likely that Kallig actually made a helmet that did fit his natural skull.

 

We're not discussing your game-play experience, nor mine. We're discussing the future "canon Kallig". If I'm mistaken and it'll never be a canon Kallig, then I'd be suprised. SWTOR is a place where Bioware can get loads of money, and dragging the game too far won't make that happen. However, making a new game will get the entire playbase over to it, while adding fresh blood. This should of course happen once they're running out of ideas, which it seems like they might be doing at the moment (With Revan coming back again for SOR etc). Might be a new game in the next 3 years, at least I'd not be suprised. ANd then we'll see what Kallig is. And it's highly unlikely that they'll share your twi'lek ideas, even though it'd be a bit funny to see a twi'lek without his braintails.

 

Still. His name apparantly "meant a lot" when he was Sith, can't see how his name would've meant that much if he was an alien due to prejuice. But one never knows. Still, most likely a human. I'm sure you can see it from a neutral "canon" perspective as well. Not what's real or false, but what's most likely from the ideas of the neutral, from the eyes of the developers if you will. It'd be a major failure by them if he'd be a twi'lek, as it'd prove their failure ot make him look well, like what he is. Things like that (major plot flaws) often makes stories boring due to the lack of immersion. It's sci-fi yea, but immersion has to be there. It's removed once the plot show extreme lack of logic, which it'd be to see his brain tails after he removes his helmet. I'm 100% sure that you are seeing the point.